Celtics/Cavs game #1

Well, I know I am prejudiced but right now I am sick!! This was a terribly officiated game again. I am not saying that the Celtics didn't commit alot of those fouls called early in the game, but tell me, how does a guy as big as
LeBron drive on people time after time and never get called for lowering that shoulder and plowing his way to the basket? Pierce was just not able to stop him once he got in foul trouble. Jamison should have fouled out in the third quarter, he was holding and pushing KG all night.

I hope the Celtics learned a lesson from this game. They took their foot off the pedal early and let Cleveland back in the game. They just didn't get going in the second half. Rondo was great tonight, how many times is he going to land on the floor before he is hurt? The offense really stuttered in the second half. Just when it seemed like Ray was beginning to get hot, they stopped going to him except in desperate situations.

All in all, they played fairly well, but the fact that they were in foul trouble so early just took the fire out of them.
I hope that the next game is just as fiesty, with the Celtics coming out on top. They need to win one in Cleveland before they come home.

Rosalie

A guy his size 6-8 270 that just bulldozes people and pushes off and lowers his shoulder and he finishes games with two fouls?

They refused to call anything against Lebron like the time when he clearly traveled on the spin move.

PP only had 3 fouls so he was not in foul trouble late in the game. He should have went at lebron harder.

dboss

The handwriting is on the wall. The team reverted to the mid season form of disappearing in the 3rd quarter and got outscored 59-38 is the second half. That reflects anything but clutch performance and shows a lack of poise. James does get away with much physical play, but he does this vs the rest of the league too. Mo Williams hurt the C's even more than James and busted the flood gates open almost single handed. Shelden Williams needs to play over 'Sheed. 'Sheed loved by the post office, since he always mails it in. Too bad management saw fit to get rid of players with guts & grit like Powe & House. Nate Robinson rides the pine, 'Quis is little used. Poor persoonel decisions by Ainge, poor perssonel management by Doc. As long as things progress this way, the C's are over matched.-MD!

i swear. overmatched after one game. which we led the whole way. some of you guys are funny.

The Celts took their foot off the pedal? How so? This is how so - in the 2nd half Rondo made one of two shots from the floor and 6 of 8 from the free throw line. Thus Rondo only made 6 shot attempts in the 2nd half, whereas Paul had many more. The Celts offense went away from Rondo and put the ball in Paul's hand too much. The team went away from what was working. I don't understand the strategy. Someone please help me to comprehend why we altered game plans from the first to the 2nd half.

MDCelticsFan wrote: James does get away with much physical play, but he does this vs the rest of the league too. Mo Williams hurt the C's even more than James and busted the flood gates open almost single handed.

James does this vs the rest of the league too (and they have the best record in the league!). So, how does this make our performance any worse vs anybody else against a guy who is allowed to be a bull in a china shop?

Mo Williams didn't hurt us as much as Rondo hurt them. I mean, for Pete's Sake, he was even 12-14 from the line, 9-9 at one point! Williams was 4-5 from the line. What does that mean? It means that Rondo was taking it to the defense and getting fouled in the act of shooting more than Williams and, as a result, getting the Cavs in more foul trouble. Mo Williams played one quarter, the 3rd. He was invisible the rest of the game.

Perk outplayed Shaq and Z combined. Sheed missed a couple of inside shots. He didn't mail them in, he missed them. How many layups did LBJ miss in the first half. He wasn't "mailing it in", he was missing shots. Sheed should be commended for fighting for inside position and not just heading out to the 3pt line where it's easier to get shots.

Kevin Garnett outplayed Jamison. More points, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, more steals, fewer personal fouls.

Ray Allen outplayed Anthony Parker and Delonte West combined. Ray had more points and a better +/- than those two players combined.

We need to win ONE game in Cleveland and hold our home court. It would have been nice to win the first one, but not necessary. In fact, if we lose the first 2, win the next 2 and win game 5 then the Cavs will have to win one in Boston and they'll only have one game left to do it!! That's a HUGE amount of pressure! It's "win or go fishing". We still have 3 games left to win one.

Bottom line: We outplayed most of the Cavalier team yesterday with the clear exception at the SF position. Pierce and Rondo's performances took a big dip in the second half. The situation we are in today is not significantly different than the one we were in yesterday. We still need to win one in Cleveland. The ONLY difference is that we have one fewer game left to do it in.

You'll know when the sky is truly falling. You'll feel something hit the top of your head.

bob

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jeb65 wrote:i swear. overmatched after one game. which we led the whole way. some of you guys are funny.

I'm with you all the way on that, Jeb...
By the way, another great avatar....When the voting takes place for poster of the year...I'm going to vote for you in the catagory..."Best avatars".

NOBODY can eat 50 eggs.

I can eat 50 eggs.

...and I believe you...no failure to communicate here...
I was just over at the old board and I think they are probably going to kick me off because I gave that punk GreenKiller an ear full....It's so nice to have this board....HOpe you are having a great day jeb....

lacelt

i do that every so often. Probably a mistake. Very toxic and childish over there.

jeb, eating 50 eggs at once can also be very toxic...be careful...w

i can eat 50 eggs

jeb65 wrote:i can eat 50 eggs

i'd never doubt you ---------------- but, why would you ? ahh another mystery for me to ponder, like why we couldn't find a shooter in the 4th, why we didn't sub finley (or TA) in for PP midway through the second half somewhere and give him some rest, let him get his legs back under him for the end run in the game ...

Michael

bigpyg

cool hand luke!

worcester

At the end of the first half they asked Rondo what he was going to do in the second half and he said he was going to the big three to get them involved. Rondo will continue to defer to "the captain" until doc tells him not to.

Thus you saw less ball movement and drives to the hole and the offense just sputtered.

This game was a classic example of it aint broke so let's fix it.

Tomorrow night we will see if that strategy prevails.

dboss

Why in the world would anyone want to eat 50 eggs??? And......I wouldn't want to be around when you did it!!

I have been complaining about the ball being in Pierce's hands at the end of games. Last night it was for the fourth quarter. Doc, let the kid do what he does best. Drive, distribute and shoot! He was wonderful last night.

I am hoping tomorrow night's game will show Cleveland that they are not going to walk into the finals without a battle from the Celtics. They got all the calls last night, let's see what happens tomorrow.

Hi,
I haven't watch the whole game, just bits and pieces of the second half.
From what I saw I agree with those that noted that the only weapon the Cavs didn't have the answer was RR. Plus big mistake to give it to PP for iso plays: it was obvious he was spent defending LJ. Possible explanation for RR slowing down and giving steering wheel to PP is that Doc was scared for RR after he was fouled by Shack (which was pure flagrant 1, btw).
Hope Celtics will improve 3-pt shooting in the next game - only 25% for this one.
Also, where's Nate? What was the point to give away EH?
Oh, one more question: where's Sam?

AK

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Why in the world would anyone want to eat 50 eggs??? And......I wouldn't want to be around when you did it!!

rosalie,

If you're Cool Hand Luke, you'd do it just to show you can, when everybody else says it can't be done.

bob

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sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I haven't watch the whole game, just bits and pieces of the second half.
From what I saw I agree with those that noted that the only weapon the Cavs didn't have the answer was RR. Plus big mistake to give it to PP for iso plays: it was obvious he was spent defending LJ. Possible explanation for RR slowing down and giving steering wheel to PP is that Doc was scared for RR after he was fouled by Shack (which was pure flagrant 1, btw).
Hope Celtics will improve 3-pt shooting in the next game - only 25% for this one.
Also, where's Nate? What was the point to give away EH?
Oh, one more question: where's Sam?

AK

Sinus,

You bring up a point, I brought up something similar on the game on thread.

PP played 39 min. there is no way he is going to have the stamina to stay, or at least bother Lebron. Quis has to spell him so he has the most in the tank. Nate must spell Rondo for the same reason. Doc did good job of managing KG, but he has to dig deep for some of the other key vets. We are older than the Cavs for the most part, so we must plan accordingly.

I have read all the reasons why we "gave it away" but I am convinced it is because some of the starting five were spent. Key to the series & the championship run. Doc cannot take a page from KC Jones's bench management this year.

Pete

Sinus,

I've been posting fairly regularly, although with less volume than usually. At this time of year, I'm more of a watcher and digester and less of a talker.

Some of my thoughts run counter to what I've been reading, but I've been traveling a lot and haven't had time to do justice to some of them. I'm home now, so maybe I'll give it a shot.

The bottom line is that I don't feel comfortable in games where Rondo's the most consistent scoring weapon. It seems too easy for the Three Amigos to fall out of synch or, even worse, never to get in synch at all. Yes, Paul had 10 quick points; KG had a good stretch, particularly in the low post; and Ray strung together a pair of threes and surprised the Cavs a couple of times by going to the hoop. But, in my opinion, The Amigos were never really established as part of an egalitarian offense, despite what Rondo said at the half about "spreading it around."

It seemed Rondo was dragging the rest of the offense along with him rather than cultivating a wider offensive flow. So all the Cavs had to do was present him with a bit more of an offensive challenge in the form of Parker and a much more preoccupying defensive challenge in the form of Mo, and the Celtics' only sustained threat was pretty much neutralized.

I understand that some people will say that it was lack of an ability to defend Mo and (later) Lebron that was the Celtics' undoing. But those two guys were the ones in rhythm during the last one-third of the game. And, if they had been digging the ball out of the hoop after most Celtics' possessions, their transition game would have been interrupted and would not have fueled that rhythm (and the added crowd energy).

Moreover, my point of view is that far too much concern is placed on Lebron's offense. He'll score points no matter what happens. In the second half, Celtics players appeared to back off to conserve fouls, and they showed both Mo and Lebron paths to the basket; and the Cavs capitalized by adding some great picks to the equation.

What to do about it?

1. Get both Paul and KG established in the offensive end early in the game, taking the ball to the hole repeatedly (makes, blocks or whatever). Since the playoffs are all about adjustments, pound away in the paint until the Cavs make some adjustment.

2. And, when the Cavs make that adjustment (probably packing Varejao and someone else in down low), break out the inside-out game featuring Ray.

3. Initially use Rondo's penetration skills primarily to set up the other three and get them in the game—only secondarily to score points himself as a counterpoint. And, by the way, if Parker's on Rondo, who's on Ray? Quite possibly a shorter guy who can be exploited on offense. Make those adjustments more quickly.

4. Get those feet moving on offense, as they did in the first half last night. Rotate guys on Lebron. In the couple of minutes he was in there, I thought Quis did an excellent job of blanketing Bron and turning him into a passer. And, for God's sake, when the Cavs make their run (which they will), don't play into their hands by playing helter-skelter ball, turning the ball over, and shooting low-percentage shots that leave long rebounds and add fuel to their break.

5. I don't believe in pounding opponents just to make a statement, and many of the Celtics are too brittle to play that game anyway). If they're going to play rough with certain guys, let it be the offensive rebounders (Varejao, Hickson, Jamison). They happen to be lousier free throw shooters anyway.

The Celtics had a better game plan than the Cavs in Game One, but the Cavs adjusted better. Just as it’s important to make the opponent play catchup in the scoring column, its equally important to make them adjust to you rather than the reverse. And it's also important to make quick counter-adjustments. Doc cannot let Brown get the upper hand in the adjustment game.

Sam

Sam one of my big concerns going into the playoffs was minutes and how they would be distributed. Look at the minutes played by the Cavs bench and look at the mInutes played by the Celtics bench.

I do believe in pounding a player to make a statement. The Celtics cannot be on the wrong end of every hard foul. Rondo took a lot of hard hits.

The Moe Williams dunk on PP ignited the comeback for the cavs. If Paul could not block the shot he should have fouled him thus sending a message that we do not give up layups.

In the first half Rondo was both a scorer and a facilatator because he controlled the offense. 2nd half they gave the ball to PP for iso moves like the spin move where they stole the ball and went down for a layups. These are the type of demoralizing events that can be avoided.

The offense must go through Rondo. He blew by Parker and every other player on the court. He took some big hits and the Celtics gave none back. That is a problem.

I think it is time to realize that the big three are no longer GREAT players. They are still very good players but their roles have changes and PP cannot take games over on a consistent nbasis like he die 3 years ago.

I say give Rondo the ball and let him make the play.

dboss

Didn't see the game,but saw the highlights,Pierce should have hard fouled Williams on that drive,knock him going for the ball and hitting him in the body......its playoffs

Jeb: If you eat all those eggs, you better see your doctor for a prescription for Simvastin (cholesterol medicine)-MD.

Dboss,

It's one thing for a good point guard to have control of the offense. I've always approved of that. But it's another thing for a point guard's role in the offense to become so unbalanced that the team neglects to involve other players sufficiently. I felt that happening in the first half, and apparently so did the Cavs because they focused on neutralizing Rondo thereafter and no Celtics player took up the slack.

Example: For a little while, the Celtics made a did well running the offense through KG. I believe that, if you go through the game-on thread, you'll see reference to it. It gave the Cavs a different look and made the Celtics offense less predictable.

As for pounding the other team, I've got nothing against protecting the basket and doing it with authority. But Mo had a head of steam and a clear path to the hoop...and it was becoming a repeated pattern by the Cavs. The odds are very much with the Cavs in getting the best (including possibly a suspension for Pierce) unless a takedown were executed in precisely the right manner by a guy who half this board feels was fatigued at the time.

Moreover, it's easy to wish, in hindsight, that the Celtics had sent a message at that exact moment. But Paul Pierce did not have the advantage of hindsight. The Celtics were ahead—not behind—at that juncture. The play happened in a flash, being ruled by instinct rather than a lot of pondering on Pierce's part. The refs would almost certainly have interpreted a takedown as frustrated retaliation at the ease with which Mo shredded the defense...and that's exactly what it would have been.

I get a kick out of all the calls for a takedown shortly after the Celtics were forced to overachieve because of a suspension to Kevin Garnett. Think the Cavs would have been happy to see the primary defender of Lebron James sit out a game or two?

I understand all the testosterone being tossed around in the "get tough" wishes. But I believe the Cavs have the edge in depth AND toughness (especially at home) if the game degenerates to that level. The focus should have been on the Celtics' not "getting even" but on slowing down the Cavs attack and maintaining the margin of lead by executing their own offense better.

Another area in which I may not see eye-to-eye with a lot of comments involves substituting Williams for Wallace. I would like to do it as much as the next guy, largely because I think Williams would give them a quicker defensive presence than Sheed is providing; so I'd like to see Doc try it. However, one thing I believe Sheed provides (which is not all that visually apparent) is a lot of knowledgeable talking on defense. I don't pretend to know that the tradeoff would be by gaining a pair of quicker feet while losing defensive savvy that could easily affect the entire bench.

Sam