Post Game Thread - Pre Season vs Philly - 2nd Game

[bobheckler]

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400978746


Rozier with a monster game.  15 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists in 23 minutes.

Other than that, just about everybody looked good.  Theis was 0-5, but 9 boards, 1 steal, 1 block and some excellent defensive rotations.  Yabby very active.  3 steals, 3 blocks.   Nader with 15 points on 5-11 in 21 minutes.  Hell, Jabari Bird looked like he belonged.

I was not impressed with Tatum's defense on Simmons.


Pre-season.

On the Philly side:
Simmons can't shoot for shit from outside 10'. 15 points, but 3-10 from the line.
Fultz was 5-11 for 12 points, 2 assists and 4 TOs in 24 minutes, and a lot of that damage was done against our 4th stringers. 2-5 from the line, with a very strange frito motion. Nothing at all like his normal shooting motion.



bob


.

[worcester]

Bottom line - our young'uns are better than theirs, and our front line starters are way better.

[k_j_88]

This game reaffirmed my belief that despite their lottery talent, Philly is still a bad team for the time being.


KJ

[bobheckler]

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/10/jayson_tatum_marcus_smart_bost.html#incart_river_index



Jayson Tatum's defense, Marcus Smart & more: 10 things we learned as Boston Celtics defeat Philadelphia 76ers



Posted October 09, 2017 at 11:48 PM | Updated October 10, 2017 at 09:20 AM







The Boston Celtics defeated the Philadelphia 76ers 113-96 on Monday in a game that wasn't that close, improving to 3-0 in the preseason despite missing Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward and Al Horford — all of whom sat out to rest.



The Celtics' young core won with relative ease against Philadelphia's talented group — while Ben Simmons showed flashes, Markelle Fultz struggled. Marcus Smart and Terry Rozier, meanwhile, were both excellent.




Here are 10 things we learned as the Celtics remained undefeated.


1. Something is going on with Markelle Fultz.
Markelle Fultz's stat line doesn't look particularly bad for a rookie point guard — 12 points on 5-for-11 shooting with a pair of assists. He made some nice moves in the paint, drew some fouls and looked relatively comfortable operating in the pick-and-roll at times.

https://streamable.com/16eo8

He also had some truly bad stretches completely unrelated to his free-throw shooting that were a little worrisome for those of us (me) who spent the bulk of last year yelling about his NBA potential.

I stand by my arguments that Fultz has superstar potential, but he never looked to shoot Monday — a troubling development for a 40-percent 3-point shooter in college. He also had four sloppy turnovers, some wild drives into the paint, and some truly bad defensive possessions (which, frankly, is to be expected — he was a poor defender in college as well).
Fultz has SO much time to turn things around, rediscover his stroke and become a star, of course. I still think he will — his year at Washington made him look like a perfect modern NBA point guard with his size, handle, shooting and finishing. But he certainly has his work cut out for him.


https://twitter.com/LiamWBZ/status/917552372217294848
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Liam Martin @LiamWBZ
Marcus Smart's gonna have himself a year.
5:48 PM - Oct 9, 2017
1 1 Reply   2 2 Retweets   9 9 likes

2. This version of Marcus Smart gets really, really paid.
The Celtics likely won't overreact to preseason games with something as important as Smart's contract extension. The safe money is on Danny Ainge waiting until restricted free agency, allowing Smart to determine his own value on the open market. That makes the most sense, especially in a free-agent landscape that could dry up quickly by the time the summer rolls around.

But the Celtics are taking a bit of a risk by waiting. Smart is already one of the best guard defenders in the NBA — a uniquely versatile player who has successfully matched up with the likes of Bradley Beal and Paul Millsap (!). If he shoots a better percentage from 3-point range and continues to operate well in the pick-and-roll, he could be in line for a pay day that would give the Celtics real pause about matching.


3. Terry Rozier is absurdly fast, and sometimes that's all you need.
Rozier had a good game on both ends — he finished with 15 points, 10 rebounds and six assists while also forcing some turnovers and defending Fultz for most of the rookie's time on the floor.

Brad Stevens gave Rozier credit for his improved defense after the game.

"He's done a good job of just continually learning and growing," Stevens said. "It's gotten to the point where I think he's really started the season well both in practice and in games. I think guarding Isaiah for the last couple years in practice and then guarding Kyrie for the first couple weeks, that’s hard to do. So I think that also helps quite a bit."

Rozier has always been one of the fastest players on the team — a bundle of quick-twitch muscle ready to explode at a moment's notice. His biggest problem has always seemed to be harnessing that athleticism and using it productively. He largely did that Monday, especially in transition. His decision-making pushing the pace was good (with a couple of minor mistakes), and he finished several plays in the paint as well. That two-way play could be enormous for the Celtics this season.




4. Jayson Tatum's defense still looks really good for a rookie.
Tatum is learning defense really quickly. On one play early in the first quarter, he iced Ben Simmons perfectly away from the screen toward the baseline. As soon as Simmons looked to the interior for a dump-off option, Tatum started waiving his long arms. The result was a steal and a fast break the other direction.

Before the game, Stevens praised Tatum's defensive improvements, and it's becoming increasingly evident what the Celtics saw in him when they opted to trade down and take him with the No. 3 pick. Tatum could develop into a two-way star — a natural scorer whose flexible defensive identity makes him a perfect fit for the Celtics. He has a long way to go, but it's hard to blame Stevens and the Celtics for being encouraged.


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Tom Westerholm @Tom_NBA
Daniel Theis really understands where to be as the PnR screener/roll man.
5:15 PM - Oct 9, 2017
1 1 Reply   2 2 Retweets   16 16 likes

5. Daniel Theis still very much looks like a modern NBA big man.
Theis always seems to be in the right place at the right time, and that's not an accident. His work on the defensive and offensive glass shows his nose for the ball, but perhaps equally impressive is his screening. He's instinctively in the right spot at the right time almost constantly, and his ability to stretch the floor and finish in the paint makes him a threat next to ball-handlers.


Theis is really good at setting a screen and re-positioning himself to set a second screen if the first one doesn't take. That re-screen is usually less expected and often springs the ball-handler free for either a jumper or a pocket pass back to Theis.
It's tough to draw many conclusions from a game like Monday's blowout, but the German big man continues to look like a potential contributor.


https://twitter.com/celtics/status/917555818848911360
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Boston Celtics @celtics
Jayson Tatum gets it done on both ends of the court!
6:02 PM - Oct 9, 2017
12 12 Replies   352 352 Retweets   1,302 1,302 likes


6. The Celtics' second units might just out-athletic teams.
The Celtics started something that might look a lot like their second unit Monday — Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Baynes. One of those players will almost certainly start (presumably Rozier is the only player guaranteed to come off the bench), but the rest seem more likely to be rotation players backing up the likes of Irving, Hayward and Horford.

Good luck stopping them.

Rozier is shot out of a canon, especially when he grabs the rebound and pushes it himself. Smart remains the basketball equivalent of an angry rottweiler. Brown is explosive, and he's starting to show signs of improvement in transition (more on that in a minute). Tatum isn't naturally a freak athlete, but he's very smooth and he'll punish slow-footed big men.

The Celtics' first unit will be full of top-flight talent and potential All-Stars, but the second unit is a young powder keg just waiting to hit the court.


https://twitter.com/BConn63/status/917557512877961217
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Brendan Connelly @BConn63
Ojeleye with the easy three gives the Celts a 74-41 lead.
6:08 PM - Oct 9, 2017
Replies   1 1 Retweet   3 3 likes
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7. Semi Ojeleye's pick-and-pop potential is really high.
We'll have more on Ojeleye in the morning, but suffice to say that the young big man is exhibiting a lot of the role-player potential that made draft nerds surprised he slipped to the second round. He's very strong and he has quick feet — a combination that makes him a very solid defender.
On Monday, Ojeleye started to find his stroke. He was an automatic 3-point shooter in Summer League, but that hadn't translated to preseason until he poured in 16 points, including 4-for-7 from behind the arc against the 76ers. As a pick-and-pop big man who can also defend anyone from positions 3-5, he could carve out a role.


https://twitter.com/JustinJett_/status/917545416228347904
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Justin Jett @JustinJett_
The first step by Ben Simmons here is FIERCE. Tatum had no chance.
5:20 PM - Oct 9, 2017
Replies   35 35 Retweets   65 65 likes

8. Ben Simmons has some flaws, but he's going to be really good.
Just look at this move — the hesitation, first step and blow by, followed by impressive body control and an athletic reverse layup.
Simmons can't shoot, and he's inconsistent when he gets to the free-throw line — a real problem considering how often he will likely be there. But his passing is everything the 76ers could have hoped for, and he's an impressive ball-handler for his size — keeping the ball low and tight. He needs to improve and he probably won't ever be a perfect player, but the superstar potential is there.


https://twitter.com/Trags/status/917512578779144192
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Mike Petraglia @Trags
Danny Ainge chats up Jaylen Brown @FCHWPO and @jaytatum0 then watches both put on a 3-point show in warmups
3:10 PM - Oct 9, 2017
1 1 Reply   2 2 Retweets   9 9 likes

9. Jaylen Brown has looked good, but his jumper probably isn't fixed.
Two moments stand out in particular from Brown's 5-for-13, 12-point outing. The first was a pull-up jumper in transition he canned from about 15 feet away early in the first quarter, which was a tough shot going full speed. The second was a layup later in the period through a whole bunch of contact he finished directly through Furkan Korkmaz.

Brown, again, was 5-for-13. He was 0-for-2 from 3-point range, and even when he's open, he doesn't appear particularly comfortable pulling up from 3-point range. An improved 3-pointer would be transformative, but it just doesn't seem like it's there yet.
But Brown is flashing other aspects to his game that could be important. If he can finish his athletic layups through contact, he's going to be very difficult to stop — he's strong and explosive off the floor. Combining those two attributes would be a big development.


https://twitter.com/ClevisMurray/status/917568692170428419
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Clevis Murray @ClevisMurray
Kadeem Allen with the alley-oop pass to Jabari Bird. #Celtics
6:53 PM - Oct 9, 2017
3 3 Replies   14 14 Retweets   18 18 likes

10. Preseason games can be painful in the closing minutes.
Shouts to Jabari Bird and Kadeem Allen for saving the final minutes of a fourth quarter that was brutal to watch.


After Baynes hobbled off the court in the first quarter (and Tatum, Smart and Rozier all hit the floor hard on various occasions), the Celtics were very cautious and will likely continue to be cautious in their final preseason matchup Wednesday in Charlotte.
That can make for some painful basketball, but complaining seems selfish — four preseason contests is a whole lot better than last year's eight.



bob
MY NOTE: Ben Simmons has flaws, just don't ask him to shoot. His mechanics suck. For one thing he has a very low release point, negating the asset of his height. And as far as Jayson Tatum's defense being good for a rookie one of the reason why Simmons had 10 ftas is because of Tatum's defense. He kept coming out past the frito line to guard Simmons. Simmons can't shoot from there with even a smidge of pressure. Simmons kept putting the ball on the floor and getting his shoulder past Tatum. Tatum's defense, in my opinion, is right about where you'd expect a rookie who has never laced up an NBA sneaker would be. He blows rotations, he misjudges distances, he makes mistakes. Ben Simmons has played exactly the same number of NBA games as Jayson Tatum, zero.


.

[bobheckler]

Marcus Smart, showing more this year.  Watch the ball handling, the controlled baseline drive and then the less-obvious pass to the top man (Larkin?) and not along the contested baseline to the corner shooter (which probably would have been intercepted).  Then he pops out and hits the 3.

https://twitter.com/TheFuzzNBA/status/917546713052725248

I've loved everything about Smart's game except his shooting, and I know I've been quite sharp  critiquing him for that weakness over the past few years.  But if he has fixed that, good Lord, watch out...



bob


.

[KyleCleric]

Marcus Smart, showing more this year.  Watch the ball handling, the controlled baseline drive and then the less-obvious pass to the top man (Larkin?) and not along the contested baseline to the corner shooter (which probably would have been intercepted).  Then he pops out and hits the 3.

https://twitter.com/TheFuzzNBA/status/917546713052725248

I've loved everything about Smart's game except his shooting, and I know I've been quite sharp  critiquing him for that weakness over the past few years.  But if he has fixed that, good Lord, watch out...



bob


.

It's been a very encouraging offseason and preseason for him. Heck, yesterday's game was very encouraging to the depth on this team. Hopefully Wednesday they'll get another opportunity to show against a team that's ready to play. Sixers clearly aren't yet.

[fierce]

I would really like the Celts to keep Smart long term.

[dboss]

I would not be too harsh on Jason Tatum regarding his defense against Simmons.  Boston is switching on just about every pick.  Simmons is quick as a cat and very long indeed.  How many games has anyone seen him play in the NBA?  We got a lot of film on him yet?

Simmons is listed as a PG.  Too bad he is offensively challenged.  His offense is dyslexic.  He does have excellent ball handling and passing skills and enough hops to get on the glass but overall he appears to have major limitations.

Terry Rozier has been exceptional through the 3 preseason games.  His maturation as a reliable rotation player gives Boston an impressive one, two punch at the point with Irving and Rozier.

There is no need to keep your fingers crossed about the way Marcus is knocking down shots from everywhere on the court.  Marcus had structural issues associated with the way he shot the ball.   I expect Marcus to shoot mid 30's from behind the arc and low 40's overall.  This is the year where Marcus Smart becomes a complete player.

The Celtics are coming together relatively quickly.  It certainly helps to have Smart, Rozier and Brown because they already know Brad's system and are setting the tone tone for how all the newbees need to play.  This includes both Irving and Hayward.

After watching Baynes limp off the court last night it reminds us just how thin we are at center.  

From what I can see both Theis and Yabusele will be key players this year.  It is hard to tell which one is ahead of the other. It appears that Stevens is giving both of them an EEO. They both have similar skills but also different strengths and weaknesses. Theis seems to flow in the offense better while Yabu has length and surprising quickness for a player his size. He looks stronger on defense. The sample size however is so small that we may need to rely on how brad uses them. He sees them in practice and we don't.

I was nice to see Semi get a longer look.  My predraft review indicated to me that he can shoot the rock from deep.  He will get time in the G-league but I am sure he will also be with the team at some point in the season.  

Nadar has some skills.  He really needs to work on his ball handling and passing out of pressure.  

Larkin is likely to be buried at the end of the bench or spend a lot of games in street cloths.  

Jabari Bird is a pretty decent shooter.

Allen is noticeably slow.

The only guy we are waiting to see now is Morris.  

I wonder how brad will wrap up this shortened preseason.  I hope he will play a simulated game where the starters play the normal 30+ minutes and the rotation players roles are more clearly defined.

dboss

[k_j_88]

Tatum played in just his 3rd game against NBA competition... We may be jumping the gun a bit? 20-25 games in, I think he'll be more used to the patterns and will react better.


KJ

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