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Celtics Wrap: Tobias Harris, Andre Drummond Lead Pistons To 118-108 Win

NESN by Adam London on Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 9:49PM

The Detroit Pistons have been the Eastern Conference’s surprise team this season, and they proved their worth Monday night at TD Garden. Thanks to a 31-point night from Tobias Harris, as well as 26 points and 22 (!) rebounds from Andre Drummond, the Pistons muscled out a 118-108 victory over the Boston Celtics.

It was a back-and-forth affair throughout the second half, as both teams were very efficient from the field. Marcus Smart registered one of his best performances in a Celtics uniform, scoring 23 points on 8-of-12 shooting to go along with six assists. Smart led a solid night from Boston’s bench, but the starters’ lackluster evening troubled the team in defeat. With the win, the Pistons improve to 13-6, while the Celtics fall to 18-4. Here’s how it all went down:

STARTING FIVE PG: Kyrie Irving SG: Jaylen Brown SF: Jayson Tatum PF: Marcus Morris C: Al Horford

THREE-POINT PARTY Both teams were testing their luck from beyond the arc in the first quarter, but neither club showcased much efficiency. The Celtics only converted on 1 of their 5 3-point attempts, while the Pistons posted a 3-for-7 mark in the opening 12 minutes. Detroit, however, did a good job of spreading out the ball. Reggie Jackson led the way with seven first-quarter points, while Avery Bradley and Drummond weren’t far behind with six. Stanley Johnson and Harris contributed five apiece. Irving (eight points, one assist) and Brown (five points, three rebounds) were strong in the first quarter, which concluded in a 31-23 Pistons lead.

SECOND-QUARTER SURGE The Celtics didn’t waste much time erasing the deficit, as they opened the second on a 10-2 run to even the score. From there, offense was aplenty, as both teams traded bucket after bucket heading into the break, with Detroit holding a 60-57 lead. Drummond stuffed the stat sheet in the first half, posting 12 points, 13 rebounds and five assists. Harris logged the first-half high with 15 points, while Jackson contributed nine points and four rebounds. The Celtics were much more efficient from 3-point land in the second, burying 6 of 8 attempts from beyond the arc, including a pair from Smart. Boston as a team shot a respectable 56 percent from the field in the first half, but it was bested by Detroit’s 59-percent mark. The Pistons’ 60 points through two quarters were the most allowed by the C’s in a half this season.

TOBIAS TIME Harris was strong in the first half, but the Pistons forward took his game to another level to start the second half with 14 third-quarter points. But despite Harris’ monster frame, the two teams were deadlocked heading into the fourth quarter at 86-86. Smart was strong for Boston in the third quarter, scoring eight points, while Tatum and Horford tacked on six and five, respectively. The C’s could have created a bit of a lead heading into the final frame, but poor free-throw shooting plagued the green. Boston only sunk 6 of 14 attempts from the charity stripe through three quarters.

PISTONS PULL AWAY The Pistons grew their fourth-quarter lead to as large as six, but Smart evened the score at 97-97 with a 3-pointer at the 6:28 mark in the quarter. Smart sunk another basket from beyond the arc on Boston’s ensuing possession to give the C’s a 100-99 edge. Detroit wouldn’t waiver, though, as it swelled its lead back to six on a Drummond and-1 dunk with 3:08 left in the fourth. Boston made things interesting with a Smart 3-pointer and Tatum finger-roll layup on back-to-back possessions, but the Pistons remained calm in crunch time and hit all of their free throws down the stretch.

NEXT UP The Celtics return to action Wednesday when they will host Ben Simmons, Joel Embiid and the Philadelphia 76ers. Tip-off from TD Garden is set for 7:30 p.m. ET.

112288

Not every night is our night..................however it does give reason to pause tonight and ask..........................do we need to add another asset?

112288

Game of runs, very entertaining game, they’re best player Drummond had a monster game and starting SF Harris had a great night finding lanes and was hitting everything. Different players step up every night, Kylie’s 3 point game was off, I thought he rushed some shots and could have probed the defense better as we have seen him do this at various times too. Smart had a great offensive game, great balance between passing and looking for his shot and thankfully hitting his shots. Avery Bradley had some timely defense, biggest play might have been his steal on Kyrie leading to an alley opp dunk by Drummond. Wish Smart didn’t have to waste such a great scoring night, makes me wonder how we racked up so many wins with some of his horrendous shooting nights....???? Oh right our defense and rebounding might have been better those nights and others stepped up. We rebound great as a team when Tatum or Brown grab 8 or 9, when those guys only get 2 or 4 that’s a problem when a Drummond is going off. We need to get more looks for Tatum, he shoots at a great %, but always lets the game come to him, either he’s not aggressive enough or he’s not getting plays developed for him. We also shot terrible from the line, game was there for the taking, we just came up small at crunch time.

Bob no question he should have played Baynes more, what new stuff did you see from Avery?

I was also wondering why Baynes did not play more, too. Perhaps he could have banged around better with Drummond who was the difference in this game, in my opinion, with his 26 points and 21 rebounds.

Good points bob, I think he might have used more motion, because against Jaylen’s size he has to, to get his shot off....

We are all familiar with the DNPCD. We are less familiar with P/STLCD. That stands for played/sat too long coaches decision. There are only a very few criticisms that can be leveled at Brad and this is one of them. (use of time outs is another) Both Baynes and Theis do a good job of playing efficient basketball. Drummond had an awesome game last night. Not enough was done to curb that IMO. Theis especially is deserving of 5-7 minutes more per game. He more than earns his minutes on a nightly basis and he deserves a reward sooner or later. Same for Baynes especially when he is producing.

I'd like to see Theis get some of those minutes playing with Al. That would free All up to stay on the perimeter and save him some of the wear and tear on his body. I'd also like to see Baynes starting more. The easy way for that to happen is change how Mercurial Morris gets played. That is a tough decision because Morris can play and produce. But I still think the team is better served with him coming off the bench to team more with Smart and Rozier.

I'm also not a fan of the early exit of Tatum so he can come back to play with the second unit. He needs more plays run for him. He has shown that he can shoulder that responsibility. He has blossomed playing with the starters who can help flatten his rookie curve. I think it is just a little too early in his career to expect him to carry the scoring load for any given unit. He does better and so does the team, when he can comfortably let the game come to him.

One of the trends I'm seeing is a shortened rotation. I'm not a fan of that either. Players spend a little too much time on weight training and not quite enough on cardio. To run a fast paced offense the players need to keep up. The easiest way to facilitate that is by expanding the playing time of some of the end of bench players. A couple of minutes here and there could make a big difference at the end of a game. Nader would be a good candidate for a few of those minutes. His aggressive game doesn't always play out but at times he should get the minutes. Like all end of bench players, he needs to get a little more playing time to get better so that he can be trusted to produce once entering the game.

Smart had a good game and shot well. He does that just often enough to curb the criticism. Which makes me think that most of his problem must be in his head. After a stretch of several bad shooting games you can see that it is in his head. But when his shots are falling or the chips are down, he shoots better. That sez to me he is thinking too much. Let's hope that this is a glimmer of the Marcus to come. This team needs another scorer and it would be better to promote in house. Otherwise we devolve into the bain of basketball existence, the dreaded inconsistent layer.

Finally! A couple of days off. I expect marked improvement in overall TEAM play when they return.

mulcogiseng wrote: We are all familiar with the DNPCD. We are less familiar with P/STLCD. That stands for   played/sat too long coaches decision. There are only a very few criticisms that can be leveled at Brad and this is one of them. (use of time outs is another) Both Baynes and Theis do a good job of playing efficient basketball. Drummond had an awesome game last night. Not enough was done to curb that IMO. Theis especially is deserving of 5-7 minutes more per game. He more than earns his minutes on a nightly basis and he deserves a reward sooner or later. Same for Baynes especially when  he is producing.

I'd like to see Theis get some of those minutes playing with Al. That would free All up to stay on the perimeter and save him some of the wear and tear on his body. I'd also like to see Baynes starting more. The easy way for that to happen is change how Mercurial Morris gets played. That is a tough decision because Morris can play and produce. But I still think the team is better served with him coming off the bench to team more with Smart and Rozier.

I'm also not a fan of the early exit of Tatum so he can come back to play with the second unit. He needs more plays run for him. He has shown that he can shoulder that responsibility. He has blossomed playing with the starters who can help flatten his rookie curve. I think it is just a little too early in his career to expect him to carry the scoring load for any given unit. He does better and so does the team, when he can comfortably let the game come to him.

One of the trends I'm seeing is a shortened rotation. I'm not a fan of that either. Players spend a little too much time on weight training and not quite enough on cardio. To run a fast paced offense the players need to keep up. The easiest way to facilitate that is by expanding the playing time of some of the end of bench players. A couple of minutes here and there could make a big difference at the end of a game. Nader would be a good candidate for a few of those minutes. His aggressive game doesn't always play out but at times he should get the minutes. Like all end of bench players, he needs to get a little more playing time to get better so that he can be trusted to produce once entering the game.

Smart had a good game and shot well. He does that just often enough to curb the criticism. Which makes me think that most of his problem must be in his head. After a stretch of several bad shooting games you can see that it is in his head. But when his shots are falling or the chips are down, he shoots better. That sez to me he is thinking too much. Let's hope that this is a glimmer of the Marcus to come. This team needs another scorer and it would be better to promote in house. Otherwise we devolve into the bain of basketball existence, the dreaded inconsistent layer.

Finally! A couple of days off. I expect marked improvement in overall TEAM play when they return.

I know it is somewhat irrelevant but imagine the minutes if Hayward hadn't been hurt.  Stevens sees these guys a lot more than we do.  

beat

This loss was definitely Brad's fault. Baynes had zero fouls and should have played at least 25 minutes. Theis was very good. So why not play them more against Drummond? That guy is the best center in the NBA if last night is who he is.

Detroit looks much better than Cleveland. I hope Isaiah is healthy because that would make it more interesting. I'm not thinking let's be cutthroat. I feel bad about what he went through the last year. I don't like his diva style and Kyrie is the much better lunch pail fit, but last night was a great game despite the loss. I miss great games. Or I am starting to appreciate the great games as we become more of a realistic title contender.

One must tip the cap to the Pistons. On Bradley, I think he finally figured out finishing at the rim last year. I doubt he has come up with much more new improvements but maybe he has become even more efficient and consistent with the leaps he made with the Celtics.

I think it's disturbing Stevens didn't play enough Baynes. Doc used to do that all the time- let's play the top talent and not worry about balance. Let's start Ray, Rondo and Bradley. Let's ignore that Drummond might as well have been Shaq in his prime last night. It worries me that an assistant didn't whisper in his ear maybe we need more Baynes on Drummond.

Otherwise, Theis and Smart were very good. That's nice moving forward. Maybe don't burn out Kyrie. Lean on him like that perhaps against scrub teams. It doesn't work too often against good teams.

I thought he didn't rest Irving the right way. 36 minutes isn't that bad for a number, but a tired shooter is a bad shooter.

He's only 25, but he looked done for energy when most needed.  I hope it was just a bad game for Stevens.

One loss, that is all it is. We can analyze all we want, but it was just one game. We have three quarters of a season to go before we can criticize Brad for moves he makes. The one thing I have learned over his tenure here is that, there is a reason for almost everything he does. We ran into a buzz saw last night, Jaylen and Jason had terrible shooting games, Kyrie was not Kyrie, so if just two thirds of that group had scored, we would have won the game, even with the monster game Drummond had. Imagine, last year at trade deadline there were rumors he was available. I don't now if I ever believed it, but what a mistake that would have been.

One game guys, just one game. (Beat, I wish we had the problem of worrying about minutes if Gordon was playing!)

Phil.  

Bad game foe Stevens?  

Players from Detroit deserve a bit of credit. And as Rosalie said it one game.

Except for turnovers and foul shots we otherwise played fine. Of course that’s almost like asking Mrs. Lincoln how the play was I suppose.

60 games to go no point in over analyzing 1 game.

beat

RosalieTCeltics wrote:One loss, that is all it is.  We can analyze all we want, but it was just one game. We have three quarters of a season to go before we can criticize Brad for moves he makes.  The one thing I have learned over his tenure here is that, there is a reason for almost everything he does.  We ran into a buzz saw last night, Jaylen and Jason had terrible shooting games, Kyrie was not Kyrie, so if just two thirds of that group had scored, we would have won the game, even with the monster game Drummond had.  Imagine, last year at trade deadline there were rumors he was available. I don't now if I ever believed it, but what a mistake that would have been.

One game guys, just one game.  (Beat, I wish we had the problem of worrying about minutes if Gordon was playing!)

So do I

He’d been a much needed sniper and opened things up even more for others but it is what it is.

beat

It's just one loss, and to a team that's looking like they're on the upswing. Drummond is proving that the big man is far from extinct.

No need for concern, we weren't going to win 78 this year anyway. As I mentioned in another thread, however, perhaps a good example of why looking into the Okafor situation may be a good idea.

NYCelt, I wondered about that myself. I read an article from Wojo who said the asking price has gone way down, second round pick. Do we want to mess with the chemistry here, or take a chance for one season. Will this interfere with Tatum's growth on the team. I just am not sure.

Beat, on another note, I was reading the bio's on all of the assistant coaches on the Celtics. Read Jamie Young's bio. You will get what I saw. He is a nice young man, I see him daily getting coffee and always says hello (maybe because he saw me a couple of times with my new Celtic Sweatshirt on!!!) Anyway, read it.

Rosalie

Rosalie, How would Okafor interfere with Tatum's growth?

Some of what I have to say will sound redundant.

The Celtics struggled all night to defend the Pistons.  The Celtics had 17 turnovers.  The Celtics free throw shooting was horrible.  Rotation minutes was questionable.  Let me expand on these things a bit.

Bob pointed out already issues defending the P and R.  The one time it was well defended is when Theis came up fast and the guard ran into him and they called a foul on Theis.  The Celtics do not have a viable matchup  for Tobias Harris.  At  least not yet (until Tatum gets bigger and stronger)

The Celtics lost the battle on the glass and Al Horford was dominated in the post.  In my opinion you have to match size and strength with size and strength.  For the life of me i could not understand why Baynes only played 13 minutes.  He was 3 for 3 and had 6 rebounds.  Unless i am missing something that was a poor coaching decision.  Drummond killed the Celtics all night.

The Bradley/Irving matchup reminds us what a great on the ball defender Avery is.  he did not stop Irving but he certainly contained him.  6 of our 17 turnovers had Kyrie's name on them.

At some point in the game I said damn Tatum has not scored.  He ended up 3/7 for 10 points with 4 assists and 3 rebounds.  I think he is already one of our best offensive weapons so 7 shots is way too few.

Our bench outplayed their bench with Marcus Smart turning in another very productive game on offense.  Is it the head or the sneakers?  Unfortunately he had 3 turnovers including a brain fart pass on the side that was stolen by Drummond and then dunked for a breakaway basket that took the air out of any comeback opportunities.

I thought Daniel Theis played well and he is another guy that really does not get a lot of opportunities.  

The Pistons played very well and deserved to win the game.  They are a team that may be a really tough matchup for Boston if they meet in the playoffs.

I think we have some matchup problems when the opposition plays 2 SF /.  Al Horford cannot check these hybrid SF's like Tobias and he cannot check the big physical centers which means it is nearly impossible to start him and Baynes against teams that play two quick forwards.

dboss

NYCelt wrote:It's just one loss, and to a team that's looking like they're on the upswing. Drummond is proving that the big man is far from extinct.

No need for concern, we weren't going to win 78 this year anyway. As I mentioned in another thread, however, perhaps a good example of why looking into the Okafor situation may be a good idea.

NYCelt

We have one true center on this team that has size and bulk (Baynes). Al is really a hybrid center that has never been a viable option against bigger more physical centers. Theis is a PF and plays some center in small ball situations.

Okafor may very well be a good option for us. He is a true 7 footer. Under Brad he could prosper on the Celtics. The potential rotation issue however is that he could take minutes away from Baynes. He would provide more depth at the 5 in the event that someone got hurt or got in early foul trouble as Baynes has a tendency to do.

The traditional center is not dead. A lineup with a big center surrounded by solid guards and wings can be a very good configuration.

Danny is keeping his powder dry until he is ready to take the shot.

dboss

Worcester, time on the floor at important moments??
reduced time? Just rambling? but Okafer would play the 4 or 5, Tatum is a 4. I just hate to stop this kid from becoming the special player I think he will be. But, they might need to do something.

Okafor is not a 4, he is a traditional center Rosie

RosalieTCeltics wrote:NYCelt, I wondered about that myself. I read an article from Wojo who said the asking price has gone way down, second round pick. Do we want to mess with the chemistry here, or take a chance for one season. Will this interfere with Tatum's growth on the team. I just am not sure.

Beat, on another note, I was reading the bio's on all of the assistant coaches on the Celtics.  Read Jamie Young's bio.  You will get what I saw. He is a nice young man, I see him daily getting coffee and always says hello (maybe because he saw me a couple of times with my new Celtic Sweatshirt on!!!) Anyway, read it.

Rosalie

I am quite familiar with his past as is a certain current BC employee...........also of note Young is one of his contacts that he met while at SU.

If and when a an opening ever occurs in their video department I know one kid that will be knocking on that door EARLY AND OFTEN !!

beat

dboss wrote:

NYCelt wrote:It's just one loss, and to a team that's looking like they're on the upswing. Drummond is proving that the big man is far from extinct.

No need for concern, we weren't going to win 78 this year anyway. As I mentioned in another thread, however, perhaps a good example of why looking into the Okafor situation may be a good idea.

NYCelt

We have one true center on this team that has size and bulk (Baynes).  Al is really a hybrid center  that has never been a viable option against bigger more physical centers.  Theis is a PF and plays some center in small ball situations.

Okafor may very well be a good option for us.  He is a true 7 footer.  Under Brad he could prosper on the Celtics.  The potential rotation issue however is that he could take minutes away from Baynes.    He would provide more depth at the 5 in the event that someone got hurt or got in early foul trouble as Baynes has a tendency to do.  

The traditional center is not dead.  A lineup with a big center surrounded by solid guards and wings can be a very good configuration.

Danny is keeping his powder dry until he is ready to take the shot.

dboss

I don't think that there has ever been a better group of YOUNG bigs (under 25) then we have in the nba right now - and the big difference, in the last 10 or so years, is that a few of them can shoot the three as well as many of the smaller outside gunners. Some call it "small ball" when it should really be called "three ball". The bigs are here to stay - they just keep getting bigger and more athletic.

swish

It was a bad game for Stevens. At least three other people were wondering where is Baynes. Is he injured? One person said bring in Baynes to play with Morris, take Al out.

People above have said the same things as me, but it is spun as if I made some unilateral attack on Stevens.

He completely let Drummond abuse the Celtics. Stevens put up no fight. He did not put Al Horford in a position to succeed.

I think Brad is afraid to have Morris act like a baby if he's sent to the bench. I've seen no indication that Baynes is hurt. Morris on the other hand has a bad knee.

Others have also wondered why Theis isn't getting much court action.

I think Bob Heckler said it looked like Van Gundy out-coached Brad Stevens.

"Players from Detroit deserve a bit of credit."

I see something like this and scratch my head.

I wrote, "One must tip the cap to the Pistons."

Maybe someone missed the game last night because quite a number of people were questioning Brad's decisions, not just me.