Celtics offensive rankings this year

+2
NYCelt
steve3344
6 posters

Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by steve3344 Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:49 pm

We knew we'd take a hit offensively when we lost Hayward. Here is where Boston ranks out of 30 in some key categories:

Field goal attemtps - 24th
Free throw attempts - 19th
Field goal percentage - 25th
Free throw percentage - 17th
Assists per game - 20th
Points per game - 23rd

The fact that we're still on a pace to win 59 games with such an offensively challenged team is a miracle and testament to their tremendous defense.

Getting Hayward back next year - hopefully completely healthy - (and possibly adding a player between 2-5) will elevate us to true contender status. Until then, it looks like our feeble offense could be our downfall.

steve3344

Posts : 4174
Join date : 2009-10-27
Age : 74

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by NYCelt Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:00 pm

Steve,

I wonder if there isn't something else hidden in those numbers. This is one I've been thinking about as I've watched the last few games, and I don't think it's anything Hayward can make a difference on. Check the assists number.

First, keep in mind I may be the least stats-oriented guy around here. Way over-used and often misinterpreted in my opinion. So of course I want to use some numbers to make a point.

I'm starting to think the problem with our offense is, well, our offense. By that I mean a combination of the offensive scheme and the way we use our personnel. I say "we" as if I, or any of us, have anything to do with this. To me our offense appears to have a player or two out of position, and is lacking a low-post, interior, threat. Not another shooter.

If you look at how the players stack up in assists, our top dog is a forward, Horford, at number 25. Our point guard, Irving, is some ten spots behind him in terms of average per game. Furthermore, teams can easily plan for Irving, knowing he's not a distributor. It's a lot of iso, not a lot of pass-o. We have guys who can shoot and/or score. I think they're not seeing the ball enough. It's not a case of all wildly poor shooting averages. Hey, another stat to look up. But I won't. Tatum needs the ball in the corners and elbows; he's not getting it enough. Horford needs the ball in the grey area as well as from about 15' and out; he's not getting it enough. Brown needs someone to get it to him up high when a lane is open; he's not getting it, um, at all.

Maybe, our point guard is better suited to two guard. I know there are stats on combinations for each team; damned if I'm motivated enough to look, but I wonder about our offensive efficiency when Smart is the ball-handler and Irving is the off-guard. It would be interesting, to me anyway, to see increased minutes with a group of Smart-1, Irving-2, Tatum-3, Horford-4, and Baynes-5. Maybe someone who enjoys those stats sites can locate that and prove me right or wrong. I include Baynes purely for lack of anyone else who might conceivably operate down on the block. He's not the answer.

Here's also where I get on my center bandwagon. Take Baynes out of that group and put someone, anyone, in, who can consistently operate and score in the low post. Have a rotation where Brown and Morris can come off the bench in the front-court, and Rozier at guard. Let Irving operate away from the ball more, and open up other options for Tatum and Horford both inside and outside. Now you've got three weapons to cover, with Smart a much better distributor than scoring option, and Rozier able to at least not totally choke off the flow in relief. And I haven't even mentioned Hayward.

Take the ball-handling away from Irving and let him find his spots. I think the offensive flow would be much better.

Just an observation and thought that keeps coming back to me more with each game.

Regards
NYCelt
NYCelt

Posts : 10750
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by k_j_88 Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:57 pm

NY CELT

I think Kyries 5 apg are right around his average. He does pass the ball often, but a lot of times the open man is missing the open shot.

But think about our offense, too. It's not a pg centric offense, it's motion. So whoever gets the opening usually gets the shot. I don't necessarily think Kyrie is responsible for that.

I think our problem is we don't play with enough pace for being such a young team. We should be running and not let opponents set up their defensive schemes.

KJ
k_j_88
k_j_88

Posts : 4748
Join date : 2013-01-06
Age : 35

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by swedeinestonia Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:12 pm

I could easily see adding Hayward making a 2 assists per game difference which would bump Celtics to 4-5th on the assist ranking.
swedeinestonia
swedeinestonia

Posts : 2153
Join date : 2009-10-17
Age : 44

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by steve3344 Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:34 pm

Forgot to add this link.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/team/?sortStatId=POINTS_PER_GAME&selectedTable=0

steve3344

Posts : 4174
Join date : 2009-10-27
Age : 74

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by Phil Pressey Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:40 pm

What's up with Brad Stevens not having a running game? Brown, Tatum and Irving should be getting a lot more easy buckets. Defense is down across the NBA board. Cleveland is trying to win games 130-120. The C's should be able to score better than this.

Brad should go to Tommy for coaching advice.

It might be a case of the rust distorting what is happening. They woke up during the last loss, but it was too late. I think a big factor might be the trading deadline weighing down player morale. Jaylen Brown seemed to take a swipe at Danny saying he will start classes at Harvard once he knows he is here for the long-term.

The Celtics need more assists with fewer turnovers. That is the situation. Get it done.
Phil Pressey
Phil Pressey

Posts : 2063
Join date : 2017-10-24

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by dboss Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:23 pm

Phil Pressey wrote:What's up with Brad Stevens not having a running game? Brown, Tatum and Irving should be getting a lot more easy buckets. Defense is down across the NBA board. Cleveland is trying to win games 130-120. The C's should be able to score better than this.

Brad should go to Tommy for coaching advice.

It might be a case of the rust distorting what is happening. They woke up during the last loss, but it was too late. I think a big factor might be the trading deadline weighing down player morale. Jaylen Brown seemed to take a swipe at Danny saying he will start classes at Harvard once he knows he is here for the long-term.

The Celtics need more assists with fewer turnovers. That is the situation. Get it done.

+1
dboss
dboss

Posts : 19102
Join date : 2009-11-01

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by NYCelt Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:01 pm

KJ,

True, we're a young team, but I don't think this is a group that can run. I don't think the roster has enough guys that can get up and down the court. Motion offense is characterized by quick hits to cutters, and rapid ball movement around the perimeter. Ball handlers should drive when defenders over-commit at the read line. We just don't have players that do that; excepting Irving. Irving has the handle and can drive, but every team now knows to deny him the outlet. Kyrie scores or the ball is stuck, and our other wings who can get to the rim, like Brown, don't see the ball when they have an open lane, or they don't get a clean outside look. It's almost a let Irving score all he wants, but freeze out the rest, strategy. As a result, Irving becomes the go to guy and ball movement suffers.

Running a good motion offense, if we did, would also not be completely devoid of plays. You can go 1-3-1 continuity with Horford in the high post and Baynes or Morris low, to try and create enough inside threat to create space for perimeter shooters. Perimeter wings work the ball down to the ball-side flashing low post, who looks for the cutting high post. Either can get to the rim, or, if it's not there and the paint is clogged, kick out to open perimeter shooters. It would also be better if we had a low post presence to run something like that. So we end up too often defaulting to what looks pretty much like a slower moving half-court set. Wrong personnel. Add some size in the paint, and we've got the rest of what we need to make this work.

For those that question the coach, I speculate the reason Stevens doesn't have this team running is he knows they just can't.

I whole-heartedly agree with KJ; I'd like to see such a young team go uptempo too. But running and pace and space just isn't looking like this team's thing at this point. I'm sure Stevens is adjusting his strategy. It's not like we don't have options. The offense will pick back up, but I'd bet on it to stay fairly traditional looking too.

Regards
NYCelt
NYCelt

Posts : 10750
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by k_j_88 Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:01 am

Kyrie, Jayson, Jaylen, Rosier, Smart, Theis, Semi, Larkin come to mind in terms of who I think can get up to speed.
Horford and Morris aren't going to lead the pack but they can help space the floor as reliable shooters. Only Baynes doesn't really have that ability.

Sorry NY, I'm putting this one on Brad. His philosophy isn't about running the floor.

KJ
k_j_88
k_j_88

Posts : 4748
Join date : 2013-01-06
Age : 35

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by NYCelt Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:21 am

KJ,

I do at least agree with you on Jaylen, Jayson and Rozier, maybe Irving too.

Who knows? Maybe we'll see something more up-tempo purely to shake the cobwebs out of the offense.

If, as you suggest, Stevens' philosophy is what's keeping us from running, then I guess we don't run. I'm not suggesting you fall into this category, but I think it's funny if some who proclaimed Stevens a genius a short time ago, now trash his offensive scheme because of more recent events. I do recall, however, that you've been consistent and thoughtful in your views and statements.

Regards
NYCelt
NYCelt

Posts : 10750
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by k_j_88 Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:33 pm

NYCelt wrote:KJ,

I do at least agree with you on Jaylen, Jayson and Rozier, maybe Irving too.

Who knows? Maybe we'll see something more up-tempo purely to shake the cobwebs out of the offense.

If, as you suggest, Stevens' philosophy is what's keeping us from running, then I guess we don't run. I'm not suggesting you fall into this category, but I think it's funny if some who proclaimed Stevens a genius a short time ago, now trash his offensive scheme because of more recent events. I do recall, however, that you've been consistent and thoughtful in your views and statements.

Regards

NY Celt,

In regards to Stevens' coaching, I feel as though I've been consistent. I do regard him as one of the top coaches in the game, probably behind only Popovich. And I think he is masterful in having his players compete night in, night out. In short, I am supportive of him. However, when I notice things that I feel are detrimental, I feel compelled to express them. Not because I think he's a bad coach, but because I think certain things may be working against our favor. In this instance, it's pace.

Just through my own personal observations, the players I've stated as guys who I think can run the floor stems purely from sequences when I've seen this team play with more pace. We're quick and powerful, and other teams simply struggle to keep up. This is the most athletically-gifted squad Stevens has had.

But fast-paced offense is more than running the court; it's also being able to pass the ball up the court, which is actually quicker than dribbling. Smart, Horford, Morris, Theis, etc are capable rebounders. Let them kick the ball up the court to Jaylen, Jayson, and Terry or Kyrie. Since we're a better rebounding team than last year on defense, it affords us more opportunities to push the pace. There's no reason why we can't keep opposing defenses off-balance.

In the long run, this would simplify our offense:

1) It's difficult to defend against in transition and we can draw fouls
2) We can open up more uncontested shots instead of allowing opponents to set up their defense
3) More FGAs per game

Thus far, our offense is not clicking consistently. In terms of scoring, we are 13th in the East. We're taking tough shots. Pushing pace and getting more shots would augment our scoring. All the really good teams have multiple ways they can score.


KJ
k_j_88
k_j_88

Posts : 4748
Join date : 2013-01-06
Age : 35

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by dboss Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:50 pm

KJ and NY Celt

I believe that Stevens is an outstanding coach. He has a very young and athletic team that is fully utilized to implement his defensive strategies but is playing with less than 52 cards on offense. The Celtics are not a fast breaking team. It is a mindset. It is more than having fast guys who can run. It is about every guy on the court running.

However the horses are there to run in the race. We have two super fast PG's in Irving and Rozier and several wings that are really fast in Tatum, Brown and even Semi or Nadar. Horford can beat most opposing centers up the floor and Theis runs extremely hard all the time.

The problem is that Stevens has a philosophy that anyone should be able to rebound and then go. The Celtics expected David Lee to do that for us. The fact is that everybody cannot grab a rebound and push the ball but everybody can run. Everybody does not have a high level of dribbling and passing skills to make long outlet passes but everybody can give the ball to the point and then fill the lanes.

It is too late for the team to change now because Fast Break basketball has to be deeply ingrained in the minds of the players. Maybe Brad will figure this out over the summer but I have seen nothing that indicates that this team appreciates and knows how to make fast breaks an integral part of their offensive attack.

dboss
dboss
dboss

Posts : 19102
Join date : 2009-11-01

Back to top Go down

Celtics offensive rankings this year Empty Re: Celtics offensive rankings this year

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum