NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
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NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2019/02/22/celtics-bucks-missed-calls
NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
But the Celtics got a couple late breaks, too.
Boston Celtics' Kyrie Irving during the first half of an NBA basketball game against the Milwaukee Bucks Thursday, Feb. 21, 2019, in Milwaukee. (AP Photo/Aaron Gash) Boston Celtics' Kyrie Irving during the first half of the Celtics game Thursday in Milwaukee. –Aaron Gash / AP
By Nik DeCosta-Klipa updated on February 22, 2019
Marcus Morris apparently had the right to be upset following the final play of the Celtics’ 98-97 loss Thursday to the Milwaukee Bucks. Kyrie Irving would have, too.
According to the NBA’s last-two-minute report, the officials calling the game missed three fouls on the Bucks against the Celtics on the last possession alone. The league’s assessment, which was released Friday afternoon, found that the refs missed two calls committed against Irving during his last-second drive to the hoop, as well as an off-ball foul against Marcus Morris, who was the Celtics’ first option on the play.
According to the NBA’s review, Bucks guard Kris Middleton should have been called for grabbing Morris, who was cutting toward the hoop after setting an off-ball pick to free up Irving for the inbounds pass.
Additionally, the league says that Giannis Antetokounmpo should have been called for bumping legs with Irving, knocking the Celtics point guard off balance on his drive. Antetokounmpo’s teammate Eric Bledsoe then made contact with Irving, affecting his shot attempt. Both should have been called fouls, according to the league — but went uncalled.
Morris could be seen yelling at one referee immediately after Irving’s unsuccessful runner hit iron.
https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1098787945962627072
Celtics on NBC Sports Boston
@NBCSCeltics
Kyrie Irving misses the final shot in the Celtics 98-97 loss to the Bucks (@AAANe_MAnews) #AAANortheast
110
7:33 PM - Feb 21, 2019
“The dude was holding,” Marcus Smart, who was inbounding the ball on the final play, said of Middleton after the game.
“[Morris] had been held,” Smart said. “Once that play was done, the second option was for Kyrie. He made a great play, got the ball up. We had a chance.”
However, the report also says the refs missed an illegal pick by Irving on Middleton before Smart inbounded the ball. And the Celtics maybe shouldn’t have even had the chance to draw-up a last-second play.
On the prior possession, up by 1 point, the Bucks were called for a shot-clock violation following a jump ball with 0.2 seconds left remaining on the 24-second clock and 3.7 seconds left on the game clock.
The unusual play consisted of Antetokounmpo tipping the jump ball to Bucks center Brook Lopez, who tipped it toward the rim. The shot missed and Bucks guard Malcolm Brogdon also missed a put-back attempt, but the Celtics would have only had roughly a second remaining on the game clock upon getting the rebound to call a timeout or attempt a full-court heave had the violation not been called.
“With 0.2 seconds, the 24-second clock didn’t start until Lopez possessed the ball,” officiating crew chief Mike Callahan explained after the game, noting that NBA rules say that a player cannot legally get off a shot attempt with less than with 0.3 on the clock — unless it’s a tip.
According to the last-two-minute report, Lopez’s shot was a two-handed tip and a 24-second violation should not have been called.
The NBA found the refs also missed two traveling calls on Antetokounmpo in the last two minutes, as well as a 10-second free throw violation by the MVP candidate.
bob
MY NOTE: What a surprise, Giannis is allowed to travel even though his legs are twice as long as everybody else's. The 10 second frito violation, nobody is going to get called for that, but the travels? Two in two minutes? At least one of them should have been called. If they had called just one of them the Lopez tip call wouldn't have mattered.
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NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
But the Celtics got a couple late breaks, too.
Boston Celtics' Kyrie Irving during the first half of an NBA basketball game against the Milwaukee Bucks Thursday, Feb. 21, 2019, in Milwaukee. (AP Photo/Aaron Gash) Boston Celtics' Kyrie Irving during the first half of the Celtics game Thursday in Milwaukee. –Aaron Gash / AP
By Nik DeCosta-Klipa updated on February 22, 2019
Marcus Morris apparently had the right to be upset following the final play of the Celtics’ 98-97 loss Thursday to the Milwaukee Bucks. Kyrie Irving would have, too.
According to the NBA’s last-two-minute report, the officials calling the game missed three fouls on the Bucks against the Celtics on the last possession alone. The league’s assessment, which was released Friday afternoon, found that the refs missed two calls committed against Irving during his last-second drive to the hoop, as well as an off-ball foul against Marcus Morris, who was the Celtics’ first option on the play.
According to the NBA’s review, Bucks guard Kris Middleton should have been called for grabbing Morris, who was cutting toward the hoop after setting an off-ball pick to free up Irving for the inbounds pass.
Additionally, the league says that Giannis Antetokounmpo should have been called for bumping legs with Irving, knocking the Celtics point guard off balance on his drive. Antetokounmpo’s teammate Eric Bledsoe then made contact with Irving, affecting his shot attempt. Both should have been called fouls, according to the league — but went uncalled.
Morris could be seen yelling at one referee immediately after Irving’s unsuccessful runner hit iron.
https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1098787945962627072
Celtics on NBC Sports Boston
@NBCSCeltics
Kyrie Irving misses the final shot in the Celtics 98-97 loss to the Bucks (@AAANe_MAnews) #AAANortheast
110
7:33 PM - Feb 21, 2019
“The dude was holding,” Marcus Smart, who was inbounding the ball on the final play, said of Middleton after the game.
“[Morris] had been held,” Smart said. “Once that play was done, the second option was for Kyrie. He made a great play, got the ball up. We had a chance.”
However, the report also says the refs missed an illegal pick by Irving on Middleton before Smart inbounded the ball. And the Celtics maybe shouldn’t have even had the chance to draw-up a last-second play.
On the prior possession, up by 1 point, the Bucks were called for a shot-clock violation following a jump ball with 0.2 seconds left remaining on the 24-second clock and 3.7 seconds left on the game clock.
The unusual play consisted of Antetokounmpo tipping the jump ball to Bucks center Brook Lopez, who tipped it toward the rim. The shot missed and Bucks guard Malcolm Brogdon also missed a put-back attempt, but the Celtics would have only had roughly a second remaining on the game clock upon getting the rebound to call a timeout or attempt a full-court heave had the violation not been called.
“With 0.2 seconds, the 24-second clock didn’t start until Lopez possessed the ball,” officiating crew chief Mike Callahan explained after the game, noting that NBA rules say that a player cannot legally get off a shot attempt with less than with 0.3 on the clock — unless it’s a tip.
According to the last-two-minute report, Lopez’s shot was a two-handed tip and a 24-second violation should not have been called.
The NBA found the refs also missed two traveling calls on Antetokounmpo in the last two minutes, as well as a 10-second free throw violation by the MVP candidate.
bob
MY NOTE: What a surprise, Giannis is allowed to travel even though his legs are twice as long as everybody else's. The 10 second frito violation, nobody is going to get called for that, but the travels? Two in two minutes? At least one of them should have been called. If they had called just one of them the Lopez tip call wouldn't have mattered.
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bobheckler- Posts : 61561
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
Three refs missed that call that were at the game and on TV miles away, we all saw that Kyrie was fouled twice on that drive....time to call fouls on refs for incompetence or being so inept that are making it look like the fix is in. Further on Bucks, we are so much better at every position other than Giannis, styles make fights, I look forward to a match up with them.
cowens/oldschool- Posts : 27300
Join date : 2009-10-18
Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
Yes, Irving was fouled and likely would have made both free throws to gain the win, but after watching NBA games for over 50 years it seems that it is part of the game for the visiting team to not get such calls late in a game.
Not saying that it is right for officials to miss such calls, but visiting teams should know that you really have to win the game prior to the last few seconds.
Related to the bad calls, I do like Cowens' thoughts of penalizing officials for poor performances. Perhaps fines of some sort?
Not saying that it is right for officials to miss such calls, but visiting teams should know that you really have to win the game prior to the last few seconds.
Related to the bad calls, I do like Cowens' thoughts of penalizing officials for poor performances. Perhaps fines of some sort?
wideclyde- Posts : 2390
Join date : 2015-12-15
Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
It would be very interesting to hear the perspective of a referee on all this. Is more eyes the solution? Would one more set do the trick? What exactly are their jobs and what are they (each) looking for?
How many of their calls are made looking right at the infraction versus peripherally or worse flat out guessing or routine? (I think of "holding on the offense in football". You look where the flag is thrown and I call "holding" before the ref broadcasts it. 90% of the time I am right. But that's not 100%). Also, just how objective is a ref who makes a bad call and is belittled the rest of the game? Looks like you have to be extremely strong-willed to block everything out.
Does anyone have ref experience on the forum? It appears to be a fascinating career. Would love to hear comments and perspective.
db
How many of their calls are made looking right at the infraction versus peripherally or worse flat out guessing or routine? (I think of "holding on the offense in football". You look where the flag is thrown and I call "holding" before the ref broadcasts it. 90% of the time I am right. But that's not 100%). Also, just how objective is a ref who makes a bad call and is belittled the rest of the game? Looks like you have to be extremely strong-willed to block everything out.
Does anyone have ref experience on the forum? It appears to be a fascinating career. Would love to hear comments and perspective.
db
dbrown4- Posts : 5357
Join date : 2009-10-29
Age : 60
Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
db,
Reffing is usually not much fun and unless you are at the top of the ref pyramid you never get fully compensated.
Plus, the NBA guys and big time NCAA guys travel even more than professional athletes.
Each of the three guys in an NBA game have "areas" of the court that they are responsible for depending upon whether they are the lead, side or trail positions. Of course, they can call some things out of their "zone" and do help their partners when needed because sometimes the play moves too quickly and the NBA guys are really big so they can easily block a ref's view.
With all that said, the three guys in the Boston-Milwaukee game should not have missed the foul on Irving on the last field goal attempt of the game as Irving had the ball long enough before the shot that they all were focused on him and the ball. At that time a foul away from the ball could have been missed, but not on the shooter with only a second left in the one point game.
Reffing is usually not much fun and unless you are at the top of the ref pyramid you never get fully compensated.
Plus, the NBA guys and big time NCAA guys travel even more than professional athletes.
Each of the three guys in an NBA game have "areas" of the court that they are responsible for depending upon whether they are the lead, side or trail positions. Of course, they can call some things out of their "zone" and do help their partners when needed because sometimes the play moves too quickly and the NBA guys are really big so they can easily block a ref's view.
With all that said, the three guys in the Boston-Milwaukee game should not have missed the foul on Irving on the last field goal attempt of the game as Irving had the ball long enough before the shot that they all were focused on him and the ball. At that time a foul away from the ball could have been missed, but not on the shooter with only a second left in the one point game.
wideclyde- Posts : 2390
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mrkleen09- Posts : 3873
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Age : 55
Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
The instant replay has simply pointed out the impossible task that officials are always faced with - their instant calls in real time vs replays in slow motion. Unless the bad calls are corrupt in nature they figure to even out over time. Its always been a part of the game.
swish
swish
swish- Posts : 3147
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Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
swish wrote: The instant replay has simply pointed out the impossible task that officials are always faced with - their instant calls in real time vs replays in slow motion. Unless the bad calls are corrupt in nature they figure to even out over time. Its always been a part of the game.
swish
In general I agree. But 5 missed calls in the last 3 seconds of a close game?
If anyone of us made that many consecutive mistakes at work, we would be in our managers office, with the door closed. Unacceptable.
mrkleen09- Posts : 3873
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Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
Only one way to avoid these situations...not put ourselves in close game situations!!
db
db
dbrown4- Posts : 5357
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Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
mrkleen09 wrote:swish wrote: The instant replay has simply pointed out the impossible task that officials are always faced with - their instant calls in real time vs replays in slow motion. Unless the bad calls are corrupt in nature they figure to even out over time. Its always been a part of the game.
swish
In general I agree. But 5 missed calls in the last 3 seconds of a close game?
If anyone of us made that many consecutive mistakes at work, we would be in our managers office, with the door closed. Unacceptable.
Were all 5 calls actually VIEWED by the officials - but not whistled ?
swish
swish- Posts : 3147
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Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
Don’t even know what that means. It’s their JOB to view all areas or the court. As Clyde said above. If if you give them the benefit of the doubt on the off-the-ball stuff. You cannot miss the foul on kyrie. 100% unacceptable
mrkleen09- Posts : 3873
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Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
mrkleen09 wrote:Don’t even know what that means. It’s their JOB to view all areas or the court. As Clyde said above. If if you give them the benefit of the doubt on the off-the-ball stuff. You cannot miss the foul on kyrie. 100% unacceptable
Just wondering if it's possible for officials to render 100% floor covrage.
swish
swish- Posts : 3147
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Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
swish wrote:mrkleen09 wrote:Don’t even know what that means. It’s their JOB to view all areas or the court. As Clyde said above. If if you give them the benefit of the doubt on the off-the-ball stuff. You cannot miss the foul on kyrie. 100% unacceptable
Just wondering if it's possible for officials to render 100% floor covrage.
swish
Again, no one is asking for 100% floor coverage. But 2 of the infractions happened ON THE SHOT. If you are not watching the shooter with 3 seconds left, what are you watching?
mrkleen09- Posts : 3873
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Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
mrkleen09 wrote:swish wrote:mrkleen09 wrote:Don’t even know what that means. It’s their JOB to view all areas or the court. As Clyde said above. If if you give them the benefit of the doubt on the off-the-ball stuff. You cannot miss the foul on kyrie. 100% unacceptable
Just wondering if it's possible for officials to render 100% floor covrage.
swish
Again, no one is asking for 100% floor coverage. But 2 of the infractions happened ON THE SHOT. If you are not watching the shooter with 3 seconds left, what are you watching?
You mentioned 5 missed calls in the last 3 seconds - I am addressing the other 3 shots - not the 2 on ball shots.
swish
swish- Posts : 3147
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Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
As usual, missing the forest for the trees.
Go read the report I posted for you.
Go read the report I posted for you.
mrkleen09- Posts : 3873
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Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
There are 10 players on the floor at any one time. There are 3 refs. That's, on average, a little over 3 players per ref but, actually, there's not much of a need for them to watch 2 players away from the action. So, when Kyrie curled over the top and started his drive for the hoop, the players that were in the corners waiting for a possible pass from him weren't priorities to watch. That means that there's really only 6-8 players for 3 refs to watch and most of those players are clustered together as they have the ball, are defending the ball, set picks for the ball and defend the pick.
When it's a 1:3 refs-to-player ratio and the players are close together there isn't much of an excuse to miss multiple infractions.
In the case of the 2 travels by Giannis, he had the ball. There is ALWAYS at least one ref watching the ball and his defenders. They might not have a good angle on contact but steps are hard to miss and, I would hope they can count to three...
bob
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When it's a 1:3 refs-to-player ratio and the players are close together there isn't much of an excuse to miss multiple infractions.
In the case of the 2 travels by Giannis, he had the ball. There is ALWAYS at least one ref watching the ball and his defenders. They might not have a good angle on contact but steps are hard to miss and, I would hope they can count to three...
bob
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bobheckler- Posts : 61561
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: NBA says refs missed 3 fouls committed against the Celtics on the final play of their loss to the Bucks
The refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games so they " don't decide the game" is utter bullshit. Okay then , let's let uncalled fouls decide the effing game.
jrleftfoot- Posts : 2074
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