Celtics still want to be the ones to pay Kyrie Irving, but possibilities abound

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/05/18/celtics-still-want-to-be-the-ones-to-pay-kyrie-irving-but-possibilities-abound/




Celtics still want to be the ones to pay Kyrie Irving, but possibilities abound






Boston Celtics teammates Al Horford, left, and Kyrie Irving talk during the second quarter of Game 4 of a second round NBA basketball playoff series against the Milwaukee Bucks at TD Garden in Boston, Massachusetts on May 6, 2019. (Staff Photo By Christopher Evans/MediaNews Group/Boston Herald)




By STEVE BULPETT | stephen.bulpett@bostonherald.com | Boston Herald
PUBLISHED: May 18, 2019 at 12:13 am | UPDATED: May 18, 2019 at 5:07 am




CHICAGO — Kyrie Irving is going to get paid. He’s going to get a max contract from someone, and the Celtics would still like to be the team that signs those checks. Let’s put that right up front.

But, man, is it getting strange out here on the Kyrie beat.

Wading through the talk from NBA sources all through the season on Irving’s future (and even his present) has been a regular task, and the cacophony has gotten only louder here at the league’s annual draft combine.

The most interesting bit of information from several sources that we’ve been able to consolidate and confirm is that some teams thought to have interest in Irving as a free agent are now a great deal more wary. Based on the way things played out with the Celtics this season and Irving’s role both off the court all year and on it in the playoff loss to Milwaukee, certain clubs are concerned about putting too many eggs in his basket right away.

Two teams for certain are telling people they will only go after him if they land another marquee free agent and that player says he wants Irving. In each of these cases, the initial target is different. (There was worry on one of those clubs that the basketball ops people might be overruled by ownership and told to make Irving a primary aim, but that organization is now on the same page.)

What’s interesting to some is even that Irving is so potentially available this summer. When teams were trying to get into the race for him two years ago, they were informed by his side that he would definitely not re-sign with them.

“We were told that the team he wanted to go to was getting ready to trade for him,” said one general manager. “And that team was Boston. So the Celtics were where he wanted to go. He got what he wanted. Now here we are two years later. Crazy.”

And where we’ve been all season has been fairly wild, too, as regards Irving rumors. A good part of the year was spent trying to follow through on tips regarding his future, but that proved essentially impossible because, a.) no one on an imposing team was going to be able to truly confirm something without fear of getting into serious trouble, and, more importantly, b.) no one could be sure of what Kyrie would want when the season was over.

As we’ve noted here several times, even his pronouncement last October that he planned to be back wasn’t taken by the club as a binding pledge. The belief was always that his final call would be based on how the Celts’ year went. And even on this there is now uncertainty about the forecast around the club.

Will Kyrie take the disappointing end to heart and want to return to lead the repair of what was broken this season? Will he want to finish the job he so boldly started?

Or will he leave a task in progress to look for an allegedly greener pasture as he did when he asked out of Cleveland two years ago, this time before he gets the championship he did with the Cavaliers?

Danny Ainge has quite understandably taken a break and not spoken to the media since suffering a mild heart attack in Milwaukee April 30, but the last time he did chat he said he’d been having conversations all year with Irving and that he felt encouraged by those discussions.

Meanwhile, the chorus here at the draft combine continues to sing about Irving’s departure from the Celtics, though when some of the more involved sources are pressed on the matter, they refuse to bet their domiciles on the outcome.

The Celtics do continue to hold out hope that Irving will clear his head, realize the possibilities in Boston with a reworked roster that may even have Anthony Davis and choose to stay and fulfill the line from the Nike commercial about getting his number retired there — a line that, by the way, he wrote himself. It would be an epic journey of realization for a guy who considers himself a deep thinker.

But there is room to wonder whether Irving will ever be truly happy. Some who have been with him at other stops have told the Herald this is an ongoing concern, that it’s hard to know how he will be from day to day. And while his Celtic teammates generally had good relationships with him, there was acknowledgement that traversing his emotional spectrum — for example as he went from benevolent leader at the end of the regular season and through the Indiana series and Game 1 against the Bucks to the way his disappointment manifested itself in the four losses that followed — was an issue.

As Terry Rozier told NBC Sports Boston during the year, “Ky’s our leader and when he’s in a great mood and he’s feeling good, we’re hard to beat and it’s contagious. It rubs off on everybody else. Sometimes when he’s not like that, it can get everybody uptight.”

And the way things went for the Celtics has caused some of Irving’s expected pursuers to, if not get uptight, then to at least pause for a moment. The talk has been fast and often borderline furious. One Knick source said three months ago that people above him in the organization were convinced the club was getting both Irving and Kevin Durant. A prominent agent shook his head at that and said the ongoing dilemma was that Kyrie wanted Brooklyn and Durant wanted the Knicks. Another league source said the Irving/Brooklyn talk was just a smokescreen. But a Warrior source said he knew for sure that Irving had spoken to Durant about the possibility of teaming up.

And while that last line may seem explosive, it could also be simply a case where star players sit and chat about what-ifs. Or it could be more. No one really knows, and even some of the people who know more than others are unsure of what Irving and even Durant will ultimately decide.

The Celtics remain hopeful.

“We’ll have more conversations with him and his representatives in the coming weeks,” assistant general manager Mike Zarren said Friday as the NBA combine wound through its last hours. “We had a quick exit interview with everyone on the team, and the day after you lose a tough playoff series is not the time to have those conversations. There’s always one goal in Boston, and it’s banner 18 and that’s what we’re after, and it’s going to be a very busy summer. But we haven’t had any of those conversations with him or his people yet. I know he went on vacation, and as he comes back and we talk with him, we’ll see where things go.”

Here with NBA people at the combine facility and Chicago’s fine restaurants, the uncertainty has only been getting louder.



bob




.

If management believes that this past years playoff performance was an exception and he wants to come back to the Celts - why not welcome him back - he could be a bargain at 21 million ?

  swish

Swish

I cant see Kyrie signing for less than what he was getting, especially at 27.

KJ

k_j_88 wrote:Swish

I cant see Kyrie signing for less than what he was getting, especially at 27.

KJ

88

Corrected my last post to read - could sign for 21 million

swish

Kyrie should have multiple teams willing to pay him$30+m per year.

tjmakz wrote:Kyrie should have multiple teams willing to pay him$30+m per year.

And then it could just be a question of Irving choosing the team whose financial package and perceived chance of winning is the most desireable to him or it could be all about the money or maybe it will just be all about winning. Interesting few weeks coming up.


swish

I for one doubt that winning is a priority or of great importance to Kyrie

Ktronic1 wrote:I for one doubt that winning is a priority or of great importance to Kyrie

From what many people have said, Kyrie is a very different guy who is not motivated by the same things which motivate other players.
We just don’t know what will be important to him when free agency opens on July 1st.

Judging from that interview with Wyc, it may be just as much a management decision as his. He was very, very unhappy with this team, and when an owner says “it was a hard team to like” that is telling you something. Everyone loved IT, it was a love fest in the Garden night in and night out. Kyrie is a totally different kind of player. So...who knows where this lands.

The other thing is Davis and what they would be willing to give up for him. Too much, I don’t care what anyone says. This guy has an injury prone career so far. Sorry, I am not on this ride with all of you. We would be gutting our team, giving up all of our last good picks for one guy. UGH

Why wouldnt the Celtics and Kyrie agree on a sign and trade? He can make nearly 50 million more with that scenario than he can on the open market.

Seems like this is the possibility that not many are speaking about.

mrkleen09 wrote:Why wouldnt the Celtics and Kyrie agree on a sign and trade?  He can make nearly 50 million more with that scenario than he can on the open market.  

Seems like this is the possibility that not many are speaking about.  

The sign and trade rules changed under the new CBA.
A player can no longer get an extra year in a sign and trade like he previously could.
There’s so many teams with max cap space, there’s no need to give up any assets in a sign and trade.

I don't think the picks are that important. I wouldn't give up both Tatum and Brown. One or the other, some other guys and whatever the picks NO wants. I'd prefer to keep Brown and would be very reluctant to give up Smart .Tatum is very talented , but appears somewhat blase and, dare I say it, soft , to me. I hated his exit interview, where he said that the positive he took from the season was that he is healthy. I guess the guy who went for help snd survived Custer's last stand could have said the same thing. How about we ,especially I ,sucked and we need to get better.

tjmakz wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:Why wouldnt the Celtics and Kyrie agree on a sign and trade?  He can make nearly 50 million more with that scenario than he can on the open market.  

Seems like this is the possibility that not many are speaking about.  

The sign and trade rules changed under the new CBA.
A player can no longer get an extra year in a sign and trade like he previously could.
There’s so many teams with max cap space, there’s no need to give up any assets in a sign and trade.

The max deal Irving could sign with the Celtics would be for $189.7 million over five seasons.
The max any other team could offer is $140.6 million over four years.

Seems like a lot of money to leave on the table.

I was a Danny Ainge fan when he played for Boston and have pretty much agreed with his moves since becoming the Cs general manager.  BUT, I am very confused with his statements and supposed desire to bring back Kyrie Irving.

Yes, Irving is very talented, but he has proven not be able to be the leader of a pretty good team who had championship aspirations.  He lacked the ability to be consistent which is the first quality of leadership.  He whined about not having an older player to lead the Cs after he left Cleveland to be a team leader. He verbally blasted his younger teammates when things were not going well.  He said he wanted to stay in Boston beyond this year and then said he was going to look around for a better deal and situation.  His teammates have not, unsurprisingly, responded to his poor leadership even if Terry Rozier is the only one to publicly mention this fact.  He has been more than surly with the press, and played terrible basketball in the series against the Bucks.

For those people (apparently including Mr. Ainge) who believe that this guy is going to "change", I think that keeping him in Boston and paying him top level money is a huge mistake that Danny Ainge will wish that he never made.

the biggest problem the Celtics face is the cap issues we have right now.

IF Irving walks, we get nothing back and have no money for a high end replacement.

IF we let Rozier and Morris walk, we face the same problem.

the way I see things right now Danny has really two options:

1) resign Irving and try to add Davis in a trade. make the final move in Danny's attempt to rebuild the team after the Nets trade.

2) watch Irving walk and then resign Morris and Rozier. This I think is Danny's second option. IN essence putting the team from last season back together (without Irving). Since someone brought up his name in this thread , Danny could possible bring back Thomas under this option (as well as keep the young talent we have and draft picks).

mrkleen09 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:Why wouldnt the Celtics and Kyrie agree on a sign and trade?  He can make nearly 50 million more with that scenario than he can on the open market.  

Seems like this is the possibility that not many are speaking about.  

The sign and trade rules changed under the new CBA.
A player can no longer get an extra year in a sign and trade like he previously could.
There’s so many teams with max cap space, there’s no need to give up any assets in a sign and trade.

The max deal Irving could sign with the Celtics would be for $189.7 million over five seasons.
The max any other team could offer is $140.6 million over four years.

Seems like a lot of money to leave on the table.  

Re-signing with Boston wasn’t your question, it was about a sign and trade.
If Kyrie signs with Boston he can sign for 5 years.
If Kyrie is signed and traded or signs with another team, it can only be for 4 years.
Yes, there is a big difference when you are only comparing this next contract of 5 vs 4 years.
But Kyrie should make most of that money up in his contract after that one, if he is still playing then.
The money max matters to some and not to some, like it didn’t matter to Hayward.
It doesn’t seem like the money will be the determining factor with Kyrie.

jrleftfoot wrote:I don't think the picks are that important. I  wouldn't give up both Tatum and Brown. One or the other, some other guys and whatever the picks NO wants. I'd prefer to keep Brown and would be very reluctant to give up Smart .Tatum is very talented , but appears somewhat blase and, dare I say it, soft , to me. I hated his exit interview, where he said that the positive he took from the season was that he is healthy. I guess the guy who went for help snd survived Custer's last stand could have said the same thing. How about we ,especially I ,sucked  and we need to get better.

He is somewhat soft, he has to gain functional muscle mass and improve his 3 point stroke this summer, he’s got to come back at least 225. I think he was battling thru some injuries, this is a mans game....

kdp59 wrote:the biggest problem the Celtics face is the cap issues we have right now.

IF Irving walks, we get nothing back and have no money for a high end replacement.

IF we let Rozier and  Morris walk, we face the same problem.

the way I see things right now Danny has really two options:

1) resign Irving and try to add Davis in a trade. make the final move in Danny's attempt to rebuild the team after the Nets trade.

2) watch Irving walk and then resign Morris and Rozier. This I think is Danny's second option. IN essence putting the team from last season back together (without Irving). Since someone brought up his name in this thread , Danny could possible bring back Thomas under this option (as well as keep the young talent we have and draft picks).

3) resign Irving, see how it goes next season and trade him away when it goes south. I call that the "Blake Griffin" option.

gyso wrote:

kdp59 wrote:the biggest problem the Celtics face is the cap issues we have right now.

IF Irving walks, we get nothing back and have no money for a high end replacement.

IF we let Rozier and  Morris walk, we face the same problem.

the way I see things right now Danny has really two options:

1) resign Irving and try to add Davis in a trade. make the final move in Danny's attempt to rebuild the team after the Nets trade.

2) watch Irving walk and then resign Morris and Rozier. This I think is Danny's second option. IN essence putting the team from last season back together (without Irving). Since someone brought up his name in this thread , Danny could possible bring back Thomas under this option (as well as keep the young talent we have and draft picks).

3)  resign Irving, see how it goes next season and trade him away when it goes south.  I call that the "Blake Griffin" option.

I mentioned this same option in another post.

There is a lot of speculation about what his intentions are but from everything that I have read it does appear that Boston would prefer to keep him. he is a quirky fellow but I really think he wants to come back and rehabilitate himself and meet the changes associated with being a primetime player on this team. I just do not see him walking away. He knows he under performed during the Bucks series. Most guys would not quit. They would want to come back and make it right.

Irving may want a no trade clause in his new deal.

kdp59 wrote:Irving may want a no trade clause in his new deal.

101. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?

A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q101

Irving hasn't been with the Celtics long enough.

so you mean eight total years? or eight years with one team? KG had a no trade with Boston and that was a new contract (or was it another extension), he had to sign off on the trade to Brooklyn.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:so you mean eight total years? or eight years with one team?  KG had a no trade with Boston and that was a new contract (or was it another extension), he had to sign off on the trade to Brooklyn.

Rosalie,

KG was signed under a different NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement, but the rule may not have changed since then.  I believe that he signed an extension before the trade.  That way, he was with 'Sota the required 4 years and he was in the league for at least 8 years.

Danny and Company required KG to sign an extension BEFORE the trade.  Too bad that the situation with Davis wasn't the same.  That is one of the reasons that I want no part of a Davis to the Celtics trade.  That, and I don't want to part with half of our team to make the $$$ work.

gyso

thanks gyso!!

good to know that one

too many rules to keep it straight!!!!!! Thanks Gyso