some early draft talk.

Danny loves guards,  If RJ Hampton is there at 17 do you take him and pass on a big man early?  Maybe packaged the two late picks to move up a notch or two?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKlPl7MDqhA

dboss wrote:Danny loves guards,  If RJ Hampton is there at 17 do you take him and pass on a big man early?  Maybe packaged the two late picks to move up a notch or two?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKlPl7MDqhA

He looks really good, in these clips he looks as good or better than Markelle Faultz in college. The million dollar question can he do it at the NBA level? Which is why you have to bring these kids in and see what they can do when you put them under stress.

Yes, I can see it now, another draft without a superior big.

worcester wrote:I don't understand how anyone can be  PF at 6'10" and 185# or a center at 7'0" and 201#. We need height and beef. Not twigs.

Hey worcester - those guys would have fit in quite well back in the mid 50's when centers averaged about 213 lbs.
See below stats for the weights of players from this past year that are classified as centers, forward centers, and center forwards.
No 200 lb twiggies among these players - they average out at 252 lbs each.

http://bkref.com/tiny/iYX68

swish

Swish, there were some big bigs in the 60's and one big big in the 50's - George Mikan - but most were smaller by modern standards. Watching the Last Dance reminded me how truly great MJ was and how even Bill Russe had a much better supporting cast of multiple All Stars around him in a much smaller league. MJ imho is the goat, and today's big men are not the twiggies of yesteryear.

dboss wrote:Danny loves guards,  If RJ Hampton is there at 17 do you take him and pass on a big man early?  Maybe packaged the two late picks to move up a notch or two?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKlPl7MDqhA

I'd pass on Hampton if he were available and go for a big.

Even though we need a young PG with the potential to start one day, there will likely be other quality PGs around the 26th to 30th pick. The only PG I might consider at 17 would be Cole Anthony. No way he falls that far. Hampton is really young, too young to tell where he's going. He looked OK, but not overly sensational in the NBL this season. Plus, using the top pick on kids barely old enough to drive two years in a row is a little scary for me.

If I was going to package and move up, it would have to be for a big. Maybe, just maybe, that means package 17 and 30 to move up for Oturu, since 17 and 30 aren't enough to move up for Wiseman. Oturu is kind of a risk, however, since he just materialized unexpectedly out of thin air. He looked great, but that's a small sample to give up that much. I'd look to use 17 to tap Carey or Stewart.

If we deal 17 and 30 to move up? Then with 26 I'd go PG with Jones if he's still there. Flynn or Dotson could also be PG targets in the 26+ range. So PG at 26 if 17 and 30 are dealt to move up. That means big then PG in round 1 if we only have two picks.

If no 1st round picks are swapped, I'd consider going big at 17, big at 26, and PG at 30. If Carey and Stewart are gone by 26 (hopefully one of them to us at 17) I'd consider Nnaji or Azubuike at 26. If by some miracle you get Carey and Stewart with 17 and 26, you do it (not happening). At least one of Jones, Flynn or Dotson should still be around at 30. There's your PG.

Regardless, I'd strictly look big and PG with this draft. I'd chance finding a scorer/shooter somewhere in the FA pool.

worcester wrote:Swish, there were some big bigs in the 60's and one big big in the 50's - George Mikan - but most were smaller by modern standards. Watching the Last Dance reminded me how truly great MJ was and how even Bill Russe had a much better supporting cast of multiple All Stars around him in a much smaller league. MJ imho is the goat, and today's big men are not the twiggies of yesteryear.

worcester

Here are the numbers for the centers of the 56-57 season - Weights for the real light weights were Macauley-185, Petit- 205, Risen-200, Davis-205, Hitch-200, and Rocha 185..

http://bkref.com/tiny/8nZqx

swish

And Petit was a superstar then...

NyCelt

You know I want a big just like last year but Danny sometimes goes against the grain.

Last year we did not have a fulltime starting center. I think our team needs that. None of our current centers are 28-30 mpg players. We seem to lose continuity.

I do think that Hampton can play right now but there is no viable space on this team for him in the near term. Get me a center and I am happy

dboss,

You and me; we're easy to please. We both know exactly what we want, and it's not much to ask for*.

Danny just needs to make the effort to keep us happy.

Regards

*Disclaimer: Anything my wife says about me contrary to this statement is not true.

Yup NYCelt

We do not ask for much.

Kanter can score in the post although he seems to blow a few layups.  

If we can get a reliable big that can score in the post, rebound the basketball and defend the paint but also defend away from the paint we could have the right mix.

I do know how much emphasis is being place on having stretch 5 skills however a low post threat also opens up perimeter shots for our excellent core of 3 pt shooters.

VP seems like a guy who may opt out because he wants to play.  That would open a spot for one of the centers that the Celtics could draft.  

I wish that the draft came a few weeks after free agency.

I have become less encouraged that RW can become our center for the future.  His injury profile continues to be troubling and while he has elite level athletic skills he also may have a stamina issue.  I recall that he was never a high MPG player in college.  So he looks like a guy who may only fill a rotational role on the team.

So the near term future for center may continue to be   characterized by using several players to fill that position.

I'm rambling here.

Luckily in this era dominating 5’s don’t seem to be the key piece anymore, would anyone here trade Tatum for an elite big? Other than Giannis there are no great bigs that would be near worth what Tatum brings.

well....trading Tatum would require a top FIVE NBA player coming back, since Tatum seems to be on a trajectory of being in that territory soon enough.

but what about players like Brown, Hayward or Smart?

what type of big man return would make putting one of those players on the trade table?

if any in today's NBA that is.

kdp59 wrote:well....trading Tatum would require a top FIVE NBA player coming back, since Tatum seems to be on a trajectory of being in that  territory soon enough.

but what about players like Brown, Hayward or Smart?

what type of big man return would make putting one of those players on the trade table?

if any in today's NBA that is.

Thought about that too, obviously I would trade GH or Kemba for an elite big before Jaylen, because he still has so much great basketball ahead of him at 23. With the way the best wings have dominated so much recently in all the Finals winners, would rather keep Jaylen even over a KAT or Embid. These 2 could be the closest elite wings on the same team since Jordan and Pippen.

Keeping both Tatum and Brown seems to be what should happen for sure.

but my basement GM mind does wonder what if a KAT for Brown trade could be worked out?

I mean a roster next year of:

KAT
Tatum
Hayward
Smart
Kemba

with a bench of

Theis
R. Williams
G. Williams
Semi
Romeo
Wannamker resigned

that's a pretty strong roster, add one or two draft picks and maybe a MLE shooter off the bench and one could make an argument that team would challenge for the championship next season.

we could certainly match up better with any other teams..small or big.

We would have weakened our team, KAT has never been known for intangibles. He has great scoring games, but has he ever been a consistent rebounder/defensive force? Jaylen’s defense guarding multiple positions could be exploited as soon as he’s gone. Notice how many times during a game he’s out on the perimeter jumping ones shooting hand? And he covers other 4’s very well too. I like GH contributing with and playing off 2 J’s, don’t know how durable he would be without Jaylen and having to do much more both ends without Jaylen? Jaylen definitely takes on all the hard match ups. I don’t know how effective GH and JT would be if either had to take on Jaylen’s defensive load night in and night out? He makes their life on the floor a lot easier, now the advantage you have with attacking an elite wing say a Kawhi or Lebron with 2 J’s is gone. Our perimeter D, one of the best in L would take a hit as Jaylen is a young workhorse with the intangible gene. Offensively we would have a lot more versatility with a young all star level 5, but less spectacular running and dunking and depth on the wing, plus even less 3 point shooting too.

trade offs for sure...and not likely to happen anyway.

just thought process' while we're in semi- lock down.

Cow and kdp59

KAT has great numbers.  The knock on him is that he may not have a winning mentality.  Defensively he is lacking but he can score and rebound as well if not better than just about every center in the NBA.

As much as i would like this team to have a quality big there is no way I would move Jaylen Brown.  Jaylen is special and Jayson is even more special.  We have witnessed a great run by GSW that essentially won without a prominent traditional center.

Danny has built this team as a wing dominant team with multi-positional players that have multiple skills.

At the start of the season I spent a lot of ink prognosticating about the J's becoming everyday 18 PPG players. Boy was I undervaluing their ability.  My conclusion and realization is that a highend wing is more valuable than a high end center.  I do not think that adding a high end center and parting ways with either of the J's automatically makes us a better team.

This team was not built with an edge leaning to the 5 spot.  We need a big who can defend and rebound, set picks and keep the defense honest.  That's it.

I sure wish we could get a player of Nate "The Chairman of the Boards" Thurmond's caliber on our team. #42 once had 42 rebounds in a game. He averaged 15 rb/game over his 14 year career. Shot .667 from the charity stripe. Still a bull at only 225# and 6'11". Great work ethic .

If I recall Nat played for the San Francisco. He was a beast. We need to draft a guy who is physically strong has some length and athleticism abd can move his feet on defense.

If you could synthesize Theis, Williams and Kanter into one player he would be an ideal center.

dboss wrote:Cow and kdp59

KAT has great numbers.  The knock on him is that he may not have a winning mentality.  Defensively he is lacking but he can score and rebound as well if not better than just about every center in the NBA.

As much as i would like this team to have a quality big there is no way I would move Jaylen Brown.  Jaylen is special and Jayson is even more special.  We have witnessed a great run by GSW that essentially won without a prominent traditional center.

Danny has built this team as a wing dominant team with multi-positional players that have multiple skills.

At the start of the season I spent a lot of ink prognosticating about the J's becoming everyday 18 PPG players. Boy was I undervaluing their ability.  My conclusion and realization is that a highend wing is more valuable than a high end center.  I do not think that adding a high end center and parting ways with either of the J's automatically makes us a better team.

This team was not built with an edge leaning to the 5 spot.  We need a big who can defend and rebound, set picks and keep the defense honest.  That's it.

Exactly dboss, GH is going to be 30, he might already be there. We all root for him and know his injury history, he should be credited for all he’s done to get back on the floor. Jaylen is a far better defender and workhorse, I don’t know how well GH would respond to Jaylen’s role. Losing him for a KAT like center, who isn’t the most mobile defender, would weaken our defense and our perimeter defense. Perimeter defense is so important in this era, as so few teams have bigs that post and post like the good old days.

I loved Nate Thurmond, enjoyed his match up with Dave Cowens in 76 playoffs. The great Nate was on his last legs, but his defense was still textbook and his inspired play kept the Cavs in that series.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/2020-nba-draft-prototypical-bigs-who-could-fit-celtics?int



2020 NBA Draft: Prototypical bigs who could fit with Celtics



By A. Sherrod Blakely


The actual date of the NBA draft is up in the air, but that hasn’t kept teams from doing their due diligence to prepare for it. The Boston Celtics are no different as they speed ahead with Zoom conference calls with potential prospects.

But unlike most teams, the Celtics will have multiple shots — three, actually — at adding youthful talent in the first round to a roster that’s already full of players who have shown promise of greatness at a still early stage in their careers.

However, Boston’s roster appears as though it could use a little more heft in the frontcourt going forward. And it appears that where the Celtics are likely picking in the first round of this year’s draft (Nos. 17, 26 and 30) aligns well with where most of the draft’s better big men are likely to fall.

When it comes to Celtics big men, there’s a certain profile that most of them come to Boston with. Here’s a look at some prototypical Celtics bigs in this year’s NBA draft:


1. Precious Achiuwa
6-foot-9, 223 pounds, Memphis

Achiuwa has the size and skill set to play both forward positions in the NBA. The AAC Player of the Year has elite athleticism which all teams covet.

For the Celtics, he possesses the kind of positional versatility that head coach Brad Stevens loves in all of his players. While he stands 6-9, Achiuwa has a 7-2 ¼ wingspan and a 9-foot standing reach. Combine that with a high energy-brand of basketball, and you have someone the Celtics will look at closely if he’s still on the board when they are on the clock with the 17th overall pick.


2. Daniel Oturu
6-foot-10, 240 pounds, Minnesota

Most know Oturu for what he brings to the table as a rim-protecting, shot-blocking big man. This past season, Oturu ranked among the NCAA’s leaders with 2.45 blocks per game.

But his offensive game showed promise of being impactful in the NBA as well. He scored 20 or more points in five of Minnesota’s last six games. But just as significant, he showcased the ability to score in pick-and-pop sets, similar to what he did as a freshman when he averaged 1.3 points-per-possession on pick-and-pops, which according to Synergy, ranked him among the 90th percentile in college basketball.

He’s considered by most evaluators as a late-first, early-second round pick — similar to how many viewed Grant Williams a year ago before Boston drafted him with the 22nd overall pick.


3. Jalen Smith
6-foot-10, 225 pounds, Maryland

Has ideal size and length for the frontcourt, with the skills to help space the floor courtesy of a nice catch-and-shoot game.

There’s the potential for him to be a solid pick-and-roll and pick-and-pop player who is equally adept at finishing with his left or right hand at the rim. But his passing skills out of the post (or otherwise) need work, as well as his pick-and-pop defense, which far too often leaves too much space for shooters.

With the Celtics owning a pair of late first-round picks (No. 26 and No. 30), Smith would be worth at a minimum being in the conversation for selecting with one of those last two picks.


4. Vernon Carey Jr.
6-foot-10, 260 pounds, Duke

A decade ago, we might have been talking about Vernon Carey Jr. as a likely lottery pick. He has tremendous size and strength, the kind that few prospects in this year’s draft class possess.

He plays with a high level of physicality and toughness which any team — including the Celtics — could benefit from having on their roster. However, he hasn’t shown the ability to stretch defenses offensively, and it’s unclear how he will deal with quicker bigs in the NBA who can stretch the floor.

But if you're the Celtics, he’s worth considering near the end of the first round.


5. Isaiah Stewart
6-foot-9, 245 pounds, Washington

Projected by most as an early second-round selection, it shouldn’t shock anyone if the Celtics or another team takes Stewart near the end of the first.

What he lacks in height, he more than compensates for with a high motor and a thirst for defense and crashing the glass, which are both fueled by an unusual elite-level bounce off the dribble that’s similar — but not nearly as consistent or impactful — as what we see from last year’s No. 1 overall pick, Zion Williamson.

However, his offensive game is a work in progress to say the least with him having shown minimal signs of being able to score away from the basket. But if he’s on the board at the very end of the first round and the Celtics want to draft a big and not stash one overseas, Stewart would be worth considering.


bob
MY NOTE: With 3 first round picks (#17, 26, 30) and a shrinking (collapsing?) salary cap due to COVID-19 and all the missed TV games I'm still sticking with my opinion of Danny packaging these for a trade, or trading them for a future pick(s) or draft-and-stashes.


.

Draft in September?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2893426-report-nba-draft-could-move-to-late-september-with-free-agency-opening-oct-1


My Comments:


I do not think they should wait until then to do the draft.  While no combine means a less complete evaluation of players, all teams are pretty much in the same boat.  It is an even playing field that can only be tilted by teams who are capable of evaluating players without having personal workouts.  You will miss on some players but that is a risk shared by all teams.

The NBA is likely to make a decision about restarting the season or playoffs on June 15th.  At that time they should set the date for the draft.  Free agency is schedule to begin on June 30th.  I have felt for a long time that free agency before the draft makes sense as team can better make drafting decisions and trades based on needs.

NYCelt pointed out last night on our zoom session that if the NBA restarts the season or playoffs, we should expect injuries to players that are not in basketball shape.  The GM's have lobbied for expanding rosters that would for example, allow 2 way players to be playoff eligible.  The risk of losing a key player is probably enhanced.

I think this is a lost season.  But other key things should take place.  I would like to see FA begin on June 30th and let the draft take place a month later.

We have no idea if or when the 2020-21 season should start.  It may depend on the virus and that dreaded 2nd wave that has been predicted by the scientists.