Post Game Thread vs Chicago, Home 1/13/20

[bobheckler]

Couldn't watch the game due to technical difficulties.

Indy beat the Sixers. Sixers now in 6th place. Too bad you still need to play the games in this league. They were a juggernaut contending for the championship in October.


bob


.

[dbrown4]

Nice game by the Celtics. Let up a little in the 3rd I believe but recovered. Game not as close as the score indicated.

6, almost 8, players in double figures. Let's make it 8 since Gordon was 8/6/8 towards a 3D. Smart, too. Hayward is like putty...quietly and seamlessly fills in whatever gaps we may have. He may be quieter than Kemba for overall performance. Brilliant.

Bob, I hope you weren't having the same difficulties I was. My cable provider was blacking me out for no apparent reason. (Live in NC. I can understand Hornets games but I'm 3 hours from Charlotte as well!! Why am I getting penalized for some bozo Charlotte fans that don't buy tickets in 2020?!!)

Missed the first half on the phone with them trying to reset. Got to see the 2nd half normally on LP. I'll never understand blackouts. Very 1970ish. Hasn't technology and the piles of money involved advanced to the point where everybody can win?!! I say, "Come on, MAN!!" Blackouts are effing pathetic.

But I digress.

Kanter steps it up again. I don't know, Brad...time to promote him maybe?! Theis isn't scoring like a starter should. It's a tough call with a two-headed monster, though.

All good numbers all the way around. Marcus like Hayward and quietly near 3D.

28/39 Assists/FGM. Sam is smiling. Almost 75%. No complaints there.

That's the good news. Yes, this was a team we were supposed to beat. But to move to the next level, we're going to have to figure out what's looming Thursday and Monday. Here come #1 & #2. Clearly, we will not be anywhere close to favorites. Maybe Lakers -6, but MIL will be -8 BAM.
These two games nestled close to each other will be the perfect, most direct way to tell Danny the probable bad news...just how distant we are from our annual desired goal. If everything holds up like it has been to date, the gap with the overall records will like up with our play. Inconsistent. One, two or more of our expected big scorers will not show up and ghost us along with the game.

Lebron doesn't have up and down games based upon the competition. Giannis doesn't have up and down games based upon the who he's playing. J&J have ups and downs based upon their competition. Kemba not so much. GH, not so much. To take the next steps to getting to the Finals, that mystery is going to have to be solved and resolved.

It's more than likely an issue of maturity. At this stage these guys need to be up the whole night before these games in anticipation alone figuring out how to win them. They will eventually get it but it is probably a couple more seasons away thanks to the 2018-2019 Experiment that blew up in all of our collective faces.

Since we are playing in MIL on the second night of a B2B, it is not a matter of whether we will lose or not but by how much. This will be what Danny needs to see.

While the Lakers game will be at home for us on Monday, this will not matter either. We have a slightly better chance with that game but not really by much. Unless we are obliterated by 30+ points in both games, don't expect Danny to say or do much. These two games will make ESPN very happy.

Just go ahead and hand the Heat their gift back for now. As always, I hope I am wrong but probably not. Danny needs to see this more for future reference than we fans that will have to endure it.

db

[kdp59]

dbrown4,

your post seems spot on to me, except I will hold out hope that we can win against the Bucks and.or the Lakers.

You've been touting Kanter needs to be starting and I would agree there also., Theis will be even more effective coming off the bench, IMO.

we'll still have trouble "going big" but Brad never does that anyway.

I'll continue to "harp" about Poirier needing to go and be replaced by Tacko for the rest of this year here also...because its what I do.

[sinus007]

Hi,
Interestingly, I had problem watching the game, too. I have LP. The beginning of the game the stream was OK, then it started to intermittently freeze, then stopped all together. I tried to watch on my phone (Cricket) - same thing. Luckily, I have Verizon phone (work). It streamed the game fine. By the middle of the 4th quarter everything came back to normal - all devices were showing the game without any issues.
Weird!
As for the game itself, Celtics came to play and they did. When it happens the teams like Bulls are not a problem.
Poirier looked lost. But I can't blame him much after being absent for so long. On the other hand, our Center( ) #3, GWill, looked really good, even managed to shoot 50% from 3pt

AK

[mrkleen09]

Since we are playing in MIL on the second night of a B2B, it is not a matter of whether we will lose or not but by how much.  

While the Lakers game will be at home for us on Monday, this will not matter either.  We have a slightly better chance with that game but not really by much.  

As always, I hope I am wrong but probably not.  Danny needs to see this more for future reference than we fans that will have to endure it.

Such a sad string of defeatist statements and negativity. Seriously, why bother watching the games?  

There is no part of the vernacular surrounding this current Celtics team where the word "endure" is appropriate. If this is enduring, they you must have not been a fun during the decades between Bird and Garnett - where we just plain sucked.

Sacramento Kings fans endure.
Memphis Grizzlies fans endure.
NY Knicks fans ENDURE.  

The Boston Celtics fans in 2020 have a great, fun, exciting, young team to enjoy.  All this doom and gloom is just foolish.

[RosalieTCeltics]

I cannot understand the negativity. This has been a terrific year to be a Celtic Fan. Look at the faces of the players, watch the bench, these guys are having a great time and are showing it. They like each other, isn't this better than last year????? There is so much room for improvement and they are capable of getting better. No doom and gloom here, One game at a time....,that is how to approach it. Cheer up dbrown, the best is yet to come

[kdp59]

seemed like a level headed post to me. talked about whats coming and the reality of it.

we'll all see how it plays out, hopefully for the good.

[mrkleen09]

Speaking about fans of a first place team with a .712 winning percentage having to “endure” is level headed?

[dbrown4]

Come on, MrKleen.  Half my blog above was very positive.  I know the rule.  One negative comment carries the same weight as 10 positive comments.  

I'm looking for some things I haven't seen just yet.  I've mentioned it in several other posts.  In particular, the Celtics shedding the Nice Guy image.  No one is afraid of the Celtics.  No nice team has ever won an NBA Championship.  I can assure you MIL and LAL are not afraid to play us.  I just don't see anything that would consistently allow me to say we have a chance this week against either of those to teams as we currently stand.  I could be and hope I am wrong.  This has been brought about by the unfortunate string of injuries to our major players since the start of the season.  

Secondly, the sporadic play by J&J.  Not showing up for the big games and playing like it matters.  Ghosting.  To be the best, you have to beat the best consistently.  This is just youth.  They will figure it out over the next few years.  But they have little opportunities to show forward progress every time they throw the ball up.  

The game against @PHI recently is a prime point.  Should have won that game by 30.  PHI can't find their asses with both hands in 6th place now, but if we line up in 3rd against them in the playoffs, other things equal, we will be swept.  They have our number and that won't change come playoff time.  

Boston has to answer these two questions.  

1)  Are we a net 3 games better than MIL was last season?

2)  Can we win 4 games vs. the LAL or LAC?  

That's it.  Yes.  I enjoy the cupcake games against the sub .500 teams during the season to build confidence and durability and endurance.  But those aren't the teams you play against in the playoffs.  

Management answering those two questions or beginning to formulate an answer to those questions has to start from Game 1 of the regular season 2019.  Boston can push it off if they like and choose not to address it.  I can assure that ain't happening.  Or they can look for little glimmers that indicate one can confidently answer "yes" to both those questions.  Then build on those to compose a championship team that hopefully culminates around mid-April.      

Boston fans and Boston Celtic teams are unique in that they may be the only team in the league next to the Lakers that expect to be in the running for a title every year.  It's one of the reasons everyone else hates us so much.  We expect it.  No other teams in the league even come close.  That's pretty gutsy.  It comes across to the rest of the world as cocky.  But the organization backs it up.  I don't have a problem with that.  

I always have two trains of thought going on with this team.  Short Term and Long Term.  Short Term we look very good.  Long Term pretty good.  I enjoy the former and not so much the latter right now.  Until I can see more glimmers like beating a PHI team when their best player is out, B2B or not, getting some breathing room from the Heat, literally, consistent lineups and play from our superstars ala Lebron, showing up against MIL and LAL this week, I have to keep looking and questioning.  

All that said, you are right.  Enjoy the team.  Enjoy the season.  Enjoy the day to day.  That's what most of the NBA is all about.  Most players will never win a championship or be on a championship team.  Only 15 out of 450 players every year get to enjoy the O'Brien Trophy.  So as a player you had best enjoy playing the game of basketball as your job and the 4.5 years you'll be in the league.  Enjoy watching these guys come out of their shells and actually striking fear in the competition.  I'm all in!    

The 1986 Celtics?  Even the Lakers were afraid of them.  They would carve you up night after night and smile.  I think having Kanter out there dancing around after he dunks on someone is helping our shed our "Nice Guy" image.  That combined with MS is probably enough for intimidation.  Kemba can dishearten you out of nowhere.  Jayson and Jaylen need to go 40+ on MIL and LAL.  Show me something in these big games so I can answer the two questions above with an emphatic YES.  I'm already a little skittish like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs after the PHI, WAS and SAS games this past week.

I have admitted/will gladly admit when I'm way off base on this site.  But I also won't say I told you so if I'm right.  Usually it is after I've made some outlandish negative comments like the ones above.  But this is the upper crust of the league coming through that has been running everyone else off the court.  I just don't want us to be another one of their victims.

db

[gyso]

IMO, all teams have ebbs and flows throughout the season.  Injuries (reported or not, major or minor), illnesses, distractions away from the game (family, friends, etc.) and so fourth.  

I do not buy into the concept of "playing down" to lesser teams.  To say that any given player plays better (or doesn't) based on the competition and that is the sole reason we lose games to "bad" teams is not realistic, IMO.

Stuff happens in the locker room and beyond to professional players that we fans have absolutely zero knowledge of.  Take last week.  Our team just went through a almost team-wide epidemic of the flu.  Tommy has it and it knocked the stuffing out of him.  Langford had it and he was out for over a week.  Kemba had it, Jaylen had it.  Who else?  I don't have that information.

Smart had an eye infection that reportedly almost made him blind.  He laid on his bed in a darkened room for a week. He and the other players who had the flu eventually came back, but do we actually believe that they can just start off their first game back at the level of play where they left off?  I don't.  It may take a week or so to get back to that level of play.

Sam used to say that these players are not toy soldiers that you can just wind up and stick out on the floor.  He would know, he was in and out of the locker room for years in the late 60's.

Sam also said "See me in April".  How we play any given game in the fall or winter has no bearing as to how we will play at the end of the season.  I am sure that if we can go into the spring fully healthy, the other teams will look at the playoff brackets and try to load manage themselves out of our way.

gyso

[dbrown4]

Well said, gyso.

db

[mrkleen09]

D with all due respect, you have no idea what team is afraid of what team - the NBA is all about matchups, plain and simple.  

Judging modern teams vs some outdated paradigm of the 1986 Celtics or the Bad Boy Pistons - is ludicrous.  The NBA isnt like that any longer.  Not to mention, the 1986 Celtics are one of best teams ever assembled.  If every team is judged against them, you are set up for a lifetime of disappointment.  

The 2019-20 Celtics are more talented top to bottom than nearly any team in the NBA.  Any opposing coach with a brain is worried about a fully healthy, clicking Boston Celtics team.  You dont have to beat someone up or look mean to prove your toughness.  Thats just silly talk.  

The Bucks and the Lakers seem to be (as of now), a bit ahead of the rest of the NBA.  But guess who is third?  

The Nuggets, Heat, Raptors, Jazz and Rockets all have more losses than the Celtics, many against teams they should have beaten.  So inconsistency (or parity), is part of the modern game.  

Celtics have lost a bunch of games to injury, have a young core, and a new leader who is just learning where he fits.  Yet remain in 2nd in the East and 3rd in the NBA.

If that isnt good enough for you, not sure what to tell you.  Maybe go watch some Dino Radja or Brad Lohaus on Youtube?

[dboss]

The most obvious negative  comments is related to problems with streaming the game.  

The NBA app has been working great and this is my 2nd year using it.  No buffering, quality picture and they record every game.  

I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of play for this year's team.  As a fan I will never assume that we are going to lose a game to any team.  There are too many variables in play.  

As of January 14, 2019, last year's team already had three (3 game) losing streaks

https://www.espn.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/bos/season/2019/seasontype/2

Later in the year they dropped 4 games in a row 2 times.

This is not the same team.  I see no hanging of the heads.  I see no negative body language.  I see no finger pointing.  

What I see is a wonderful collection of guys that are playing for each other.

There are a lot of really good teams out there but I have no doubt that the Celtics can beat all of them.  Whether it's the Bucks or the Lakers, no team is undefeated.

Just think what would happen if the Celtics players went into a game expecting to lose?  

After the win last night, the Celtics remain at # 3 in the entire league.  There is still a significant level of improvement to see but it would be difficult not to feel great optimism.

[dboss]

db

I do understand what you are saying here.

None of us know how good this team will ultimately be.  Beating tough competition certainly lends itself to a feeling that we can win everything.  We are 7-7 against the best teams.  That is a .500 record.  We have proven an equal probability to win or lose when playing against winning teams.

The Bucks and the Lakers have played superior basketball and I think your comments are related to how can the Celtics beat those teams.  But I have an equal concern about Boston beating teams with quality frontlines.

Going into this season there is not one poster on the board that said we are going to win the championship.  Therefore any thoughts one way or the other seems reasonable to me.

5 top rotation guys are gone from last year but we remain a tough out for everybody.  I do not know if we are viewed as a soft team.  Any team with Marcus Smart will never be soft.  I see no nice guy image to lose.  

I know of no team or coach that does not respect the Celtics and what they bring to the table.  The new faces are not yet 100% integrated.  Brad Stevens has a proven track record of 'coaching up'  his players.

What I think is very important is the fact that Boston has developing talent that is getting better every year.  Understanding that guys like Tatum and Brown are still in the developmental stage is important because they are going to have games where they do not perform well.  Their growth as players however is just where it should be.

With 44 games remaining there is a lot of basketball yet to be played.  I think this team will continue to improve.  That's just my opinion.

[mrkleen09]

Just to add to the idea that that top teams have parity, is this point.

Denver has lost to Atlanta, NOx2, Kings, Wizards and the Cavs.
Miami has lost to the Knicks, Magic, Grizzlies and Wizards
Utah has lost to Kings, Grizzlies, Timberwolves
Houston has lost to Kings, Spurs, Pistons, Warriors, NO.

Every team is up and down and loses to teams they probably should beat.

[bobheckler]

https://us.yahoo.com/sports/gary-payton-pays-marcus-smart-165146703.html



Gary Payton pays Marcus Smart the ultimate compliment after Celtics-Bulls
NBC Sports BostonJanuary 14, 2020, 1:51 PM GMT-3

Marcus Smart's impact doesn't always show up in the box score.

But one of the NBA's all-time greats wants to make sure he's appreciated.

Hall of Fame point guard Gary Payton interviewed Smart on Yahoo Sports' "The Bounce" following the Boston Celtics' 113-101 win over the Chicago Bulls on Monday, and wrapped things up by paying Smart the ultimate compliment.


Yahoo Sports NBA

@YahooSportsNBA
.@GaryPayton_20 talks with @smart_MS3 postgame and says Smart played just like he used to #TheBounce

https://twitter.com/YahooSportsNBA/status/1216923454361833472

12:22 AM - Jan 14, 2020


"Young fella, I love you," Payton told Smart. "You play both ends of the floor, man. You remind me of myself a lot, man."

That's high praise from Payton, a nine-time All-Star and nine-time member of the NBA All-Defensive First Team who is the last guard to win Defensive Player of the Year (1996).

Smart doesn't exactly have Payton's scoring prowess, but the 25-year-old rivals "The Glove" in defensive tenacity and could make a run for DPOY this season if he keeps making plays like this:


Boston Celtics

@celtics
What a pass by Smart!

https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1216914737226665986

11:47 PM - Jan 13, 2020


Payton also believes Smart, the Celtics' longest-tenured player, can be a more outspoken leader in Boston's locker room.

"You've got to be that dude on the vocal side," Payton said. "You go and take over. You go and be the one to take over and say, 'I'm going to get everybody motivated every time.' Because you've got it in you, you've got the dog in you, you'll get them over the top."

In case Smart needs any more motivation, a pep talk from one the greatest two-way players in NBA history should do the trick.


bob


.

[dboss]

Marcus is clearly the leader on this team.  As I have said before Brad should make him team captain.

[dboss]

Is it time to insert Enes Kanter into the starting lineup?

It appears that the Celtics are now getting the ball to him in the low post as part of their offensive strategy.  He is shooting 58.5% and his rebounding has been as advertised.

Daniel Theis is a PF. He is a solid player  But he is not a center.  I repeat Daniel Theis is not a center. He has no definable low post moves and he is shooting only 27% from deep and he is not as good of a rebounder at Enes.

Therefore I believe that Enes should be our everyday starting center.  He makes our offensive attack more complete.  

However neither Kanter or Theis are full time centers.  They are not 30 MPG players so both of them must be part of our center rotation.  The question is which one should be starting and which one should be getting the most minutes.  Their overall production is not equal.  Kanter looks like the better center. When RW returns how does Brad make the best use of his particular set of skills.

These are unanswered questions.  We do not know what works best until we have witnessed it.

How about getting Kanter in there at the starting 5 for 10 games?  That should tell us something.

[atcross]

I keep seeing it suggested that Kanter should be a starter. That puts our five best offensive players in to start and leaves what on the bench? Coming off the bench maximizes Kanter's off rebound, put back talent, since guys coming off the bench tend to have lower shooting percent. True, in an eight man rotation, one or two of our best scorers will be in. But is dropping from five scorers to one for any length of time a good idea?

[dboss]

I keep seeing it suggested that Kanter should be a starter. That puts our five best offensive players in to start and leaves what on the bench? Coming off the bench maximizes Kanter's off rebound, put back talent, since guys coming off the bench tend to have lower shooting percent. True, in an eight man rotation, one or two of our best scorers will be in. But is dropping from five scorers to one for any length of time a good idea?  

That is a good question. Kanter would need more touches than Theis and could have an impact on the 4 other starting scorers.

I have not seen enough starts from Kanter to know the answer. In any case Theis is indispensable. I would like to see how the team plays with Kanter starting.

[cowens/oldschool]

Is it time to insert Enes Kanter into the starting lineup?

It appears that the Celtics are now getting the ball to him in the low post as part of their offensive strategy.  He is shooting 58.5% and his rebounding has been as advertised.

Daniel Theis is a PF. He is a solid player  But he is not a center.  I repeat Daniel Theis is not a center. He has no definable low post moves and he is shooting only 27% from deep and he is not as good of a rebounder at Enes.

Therefore I believe that Enes should be our everyday starting center.  He makes our offensive attack more complete.  

However neither Kanter or Theis are full time centers.  They are not 30 MPG players so both of them must be part of our center rotation.  The question is which one should be starting and which one should be getting the most minutes.  Their overall production is not equal.  Kanter looks like the better center. When RW returns how does Brad make the best use of his particular set of skills.

These are unanswered questions.  We do not know what works best until we have witnessed it.

How about getting Kanter in there at the starting 5 for 10 games?  That should tell us something.

+1

[cowens/oldschool]

Kantor has faults as does every player in the L, but his strengths make everyone better offensively as he has great hands and physicality and with so much attention to our skill players, he can get so many easy feeds down low, bam which we haven’t explored because he comes off the bench. I see Kantor starting enabling us to get off to better starts and I’d rather end the first quarter up 10 then down 10 and having to play catch up, which we have seen happen often with this team.

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