6 signature Boston Celtics moments that wouldn’t happen in today’s NBA

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Post by bobheckler Mon May 04, 2020 8:33 pm

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/05/6-signature-boston-celtics-moments-that-wouldnt-happen-in-todays-nba.html



6 signature Boston Celtics moments that wouldn’t happen in today’s NBA




Updated 3:17 PM; Today 3:16 PM



6 signature Boston Celtics moments that wouldn’t happen in today’s NBA G6R6E4ZFSZCGPAQCSLLKWBHDVA
FILE - In this May 3, 1968 file photo, Boston Celtics general manager Red Auerbach hugs Bill Russell, left, and John Havlicek, right, in Los Angeles, (AP Photo/File)AP


By John Karalis | JKaralis@masslive.com




The NBA has grown a lot over its more than seven decades of existence. Arenas have become monstrous technological marvels. Players are paid life-changing amounts of money and travel is style. They wear shoes that are more than just canvas attached to a flat piece of rubber.

The game’s evolution has created opportunities for us to witness some amazing moments. It has also created some very unique circumstances that allowed some of those moments to happen. The entire course of Boston Celtics history has been shaped by things that are either no longer possible, or would be so radically different that they may not have the same impact.

Here’s a look at six signature moments in Celtics history that are either impossible, or very unlikely in today’s game.


1- The 1956 Draft

What happened: The Celtics drafted Tommy Heinsohn, Bill Russell, and KC Jones

Why it would have been different: Oh so many reasons!

The Celtics got Heinsohn with a territorial pick, meaning the Celtics didn’t even need an actual draft slot to pick him.

Territorial picks were in place back then to give pro teams dibs on the college stars in their markets. College basketball was very popular back then and the NBA was only a few years old. The NBA wanted to capitalize on a player’s college popularity, so they instituted the territorial pick and let teams like Boston jump the line because Heinsohn was a star at Holy Cross in Worcester.

That system ended in 1966, and also involved the selection of Wilt Chamberlain in Philadelphia, Oscar Robertson in Cincinnati, and Dave DeBusschere in Detroit.

Bill Russell also probably wouldn’t have been a Celtic. The Celtics made a shrewd move to trade into the second spot in the draft, giving up Ed Macauey and Cliff Hagan for the rights to Russell. While that seems lopsided now, it helped get the St. Louis Hawks into three straight NBA Finals. The even beat Boston for a championship in 1958.

But that was the second pick. The Rochester Royals had the top overall pick, and they had to be convinced not to pick Russell. So Celtics owner Walter Brown, who was also part owner of the Ice Capades, offered Rochester a chance for a guaranteed gate.

Rochester would get to fill its arena by hosting the Ice Capades in exchange for not drafting Russell. The Royals, stuck in Rochester and not having any idea what Russell would mean to the NBA, took the offer.

The Royals would soon leave Rochester and go to Kansas City, Cincinnati, and Sacramento, where they are now the Kings. So if you ever wonder why the Kings make some questionable personnel decisions, just know that it’s a long-standing tradition.


2- The Celtics draft Larry Bird in 1978 even though he goes back to college

What happened: The Celtics drafted Larry Bird with the sixth overall pick after his junior year at Indiana State, even though he didn’t declare.

Why it would be different: The rules have changed

In 1974, Larry Bird enrolled at Indiana University to play for Bobby Knight. He dropped out almost immediately and took a maintenance job in French Lick that included work on a garbage truck, and he was happy again.

“I loved that job,” Bird once told Sports Illustrated. “It was outdoors, you were around your friends. Picking up brush, cleaning up. I felt like I was really accomplishing something. How many times are you riding around your town and you say to yourself, Why don't they fix that? Why don't they clean the streets up? And here I had the chance to do that. I had the chance to make my community look better.”

Eventually, Bird went back to school, now famously becoming a star at Indiana State. In 1978, his original class graduated, which made Bird eligible for the draft regardless of his intentions. Red Auerbach took a wild gamble and picked him, even though Bird decided to go back to college. Nowadays, a player has to forego his remaining college eligibility to enter the draft. He’s have to choose whether he was in or out.

Back then, though, the rule allowed Boston some time to negotiate. The team had one year to sign him or else he could have entered the 1979 draft. Boston took a risk that they’d lose him, and that ticking clock worked in Bird’s favor. He signed a five-year deal that made him the highest-paid rookie in league history to that point, and he went on to have an okay career in Boston.


3- Robert Parish hammers Bill Laimbeer in the 1987 Eastern Conference Finals without drawing a foul


What happened: Robert Parish hit Bill Laimbeer with three punches without getting a foul called in 1987

Why it would be different:
There would have been a third referee, and there would have been a video review.

In the second quarter of Game 5 between the Celtics and Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals, Bill Laimbeer raised a left elbow as he was boxing out Robert Parish and caught the Celtics center in the neck. Parish did not appreciate the elbow to the Adam's apple, so he fired back with three straight shots to Laimbeer’s head.

Laimbeer dropped to the floor, but neither Jack Madden nor Jess Kersey, the officials for the game, saw what happened, so Parish wasn’t even called for a foul.

So the first thing that would have been different would have been the third referee, probably positioned on the right side of the floor at the hashmark, which would have provided a clear view of the play.

Secondly, this play would have been reviewed for sure in today’s game, and Parish would likely have been assessed a flagrant-2 foul and ejected. He did get fined and suspended for Game 6 in 1987, though he sprained his ankle and would have missed the game anyway. Still, there’s a strong chance he would have been suspended for longer had that happened in 2020.

The Celtic won that game on Larry Bird’s steal, which would not have happened today either (I’ll explain in a minute). If Parish is ejected, then the game flow changes dramatically and that steal probably never happens. The Celtics might have lost to the Pistons, and it would have been Lakers-Pistons in the 1987 Finals.


4- Kevin McHale’s hard foul on Kurt Rambis changes the 1984 Finals

What happened: Kevin McHale’s hard foul on Kurt Rambis in the 1984 NBA Finals rattled the Lakers and turned the series in Boston’s favor.

Why it would be different:
McHale would have been ejected and likely suspended after video review

You really only have to watch it to see what I’m talking about




In the third quarter of Game 4 with the Lakers up six and on the fast break looking to extend their lead, McHale hit Rambis with a hard clothesline that only earned him a personal foul. Both benches emptied but nothing further came of it.

The momentum shift, though, changed the entire dynamic of that series.

Instead of running and playing their showtime style of basketball, the Lakers got pulled into Boston’s more physical style of play. The Celtics came back to win Game 4 and the series.

However, there is no doubt that the play is initially called differently on the floor in today’s game and video reviewed. McHale would have easily been given a flagrant-2 and tossed, which could have been enough for the Lakers to win that game and take a 3-1 series lead.

Even if they didn’t, McHale would have been suspended at least one game for that hit, maybe more, because it was up around the head and it took Rambis down to the floor. If McHale was thrown out and suspended and the Celtics lost both games, that play would go down as one of the most boneheaded plays in team history.


5- John Havlicek’s steal in the 1965 Eastern Division Finals

What happened:
John Havlicek sealed the Game 7 win over the Philadelphia Warriors with a dramatic steal of an inbounds pass

Why it would be different: It never would have happened

In 1965, the baskets weren’t part of a big stanchion positioned how you know them to be today. The basket was attached to the wall and held in place by guide wires. Those were considered out of bounds.

So when Wilt Chamberlain scored to make it a one point game, Bill Russell quickly tried to inbound the ball and fire a long pass down court to run out the clock.

His pass hit one of those wires. The turnover is what gave Philadelphia the ball in the first place. Today, those wires wouldn’t exist, and Russell’s pass would have sailed through the air unimpeded.

Of course, we don’t know how that would have played out, but chances are Russell saw someone on his fast-breaking team running down court. This is what the Celtics did, and they did it well. It’s safe to say the ball would have at least hit someone’s hands, and Boston would have just won the game outright.

Maybe it would have bounced off someone’s fingertips and, on an alternate timeline, Havlicek makes a steal at the other end of the court to seal the game. What we do know is that without the wires there, Philadelphia doesn’t get the ball where they did, and Havlicek never has to make that signature play at all.


6- Larry Bird’s steal in the 1987 Eastern Conference Finals

What happened: Larry Bird stole a rushed inbounds pass to give Boston an improbable win over the Pistons in Game 5

Why it would be different: An out of bounds review would have eliminated Bird’s element of surprise.

We have to back up to Bird’s drive, where he got swallowed up by the Pistons. Boston was down 1, Bird failed to convert, and in the ensuing chase for the ball, it went off Jerry Sichting and to the Pistons.

Pistons ball.



The Pistons, at this point in their existence, had been stymied by the Celtics a few times. They were desperate to get past Boston. That showed when Isaiah Thomas hurriedly grabbed the ball and tried to inbound it to Bill Laimbeer.

He never surveyed the floor. He just grabbed it and threw it to the first Piston he saw. He wanted to take the game and go close the series out in Detroit.

Bird recognized what was happening and capitalized on the impatience. His steal and assist to Dennis Johnson might be the greatest play in team history.

If that play happened today, the out of bounds call would have been reviewed. Chances are the Celtics would have been the ones who begged for a review. The officials would have taken a few minutes to go and look at the different angles, determine it was Detroit ball, and give all of the Pistons a chance to calm down, draw up a play, and remember they could call a timeout if they needed to.

Maybe Bird would have found another way to make a play. Maybe they would have fouled, Detroit would have missed a free throw, and Bird would have hit a 3-pointer to save the game and his signature moment would have been different. It’s hard to say.

What I can say with confidence is that this moment is lost. It never happens this way in 2020. The review process would have radically changed how the last five seconds played out. This play, as it happened, wouldn’t exist.

This doesn’t mean that things are bad in 2020. There are signature moments that happen in today’s game that might not happen in the 2050 game. The game evolves and creates its own greatness along the way. I don’t think anyone here is pining for the days of guide wires and two officials.

Things are just… different. It’s interesting to see how much the game has changed and how the quirks of the game led to unique circumstances.



bob
MY NOTE:  These six examples are some of the reasons I don't join in on inter-era comparisons.  The differences in size and athleticism aren't the only differences.  Try to imagine Paul George running into a Karl Malone elbow, or one of today's players trying to keep the other Malone, Moses, off the offensive boards.  Jokic is too slow and if we're renting out a 3 bedroom flat in Embiid's head Moses would own the Playboy Mansion there.  


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Post by RosalieTCeltics Mon May 04, 2020 8:44 pm

I am watching the ‘84 game right now where McHale decapitates Rambis. Today he would have been suspended for the rest of the series

Same with Parish, at least two game if not more suspension. 

But these wouldn’t happen today because defense is not played the way those guys played.

By the way, now I know why I listened to the radio even way back in the 60’s and on. Dick Stockton is doing this game and he is a Laker lover all over, it is sickening.
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Post by swish Mon May 04, 2020 9:59 pm

bobheckler wrote:https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/05/6-signature-boston-celtics-moments-that-wouldnt-happen-in-todays-nba.html



6 signature Boston Celtics moments that wouldn’t happen in today’s NBA




Updated 3:17 PM; Today 3:16 PM



6 signature Boston Celtics moments that wouldn’t happen in today’s NBA G6R6E4ZFSZCGPAQCSLLKWBHDVA
FILE - In this May 3, 1968 file photo, Boston Celtics general manager Red Auerbach hugs Bill Russell, left, and John Havlicek, right, in Los Angeles, (AP Photo/File)AP


By John Karalis | JKaralis@masslive.com




The NBA has grown a lot over its more than seven decades of existence. Arenas have become monstrous technological marvels. Players are paid life-changing amounts of money and travel is style. They wear shoes that are more than just canvas attached to a flat piece of rubber.

The game’s evolution has created opportunities for us to witness some amazing moments. It has also created some very unique circumstances that allowed some of those moments to happen. The entire course of Boston Celtics history has been shaped by things that are either no longer possible, or would be so radically different that they may not have the same impact.

Here’s a look at six signature moments in Celtics history that are either impossible, or very unlikely in today’s game.


1- The 1956 Draft

What happened: The Celtics drafted Tommy Heinsohn, Bill Russell, and KC Jones

Why it would have been different: Oh so many reasons!

The Celtics got Heinsohn with a territorial pick, meaning the Celtics didn’t even need an actual draft slot to pick him.

Territorial picks were in place back then to give pro teams dibs on the college stars in their markets. College basketball was very popular back then and the NBA was only a few years old. The NBA wanted to capitalize on a player’s college popularity, so they instituted the territorial pick and let teams like Boston jump the line because Heinsohn was a star at Holy Cross in Worcester.

That system ended in 1966, and also involved the selection of Wilt Chamberlain in Philadelphia, Oscar Robertson in Cincinnati, and Dave DeBusschere in Detroit.

Bill Russell also probably wouldn’t have been a Celtic. The Celtics made a shrewd move to trade into the second spot in the draft, giving up Ed Macauey and Cliff Hagan for the rights to Russell. While that seems lopsided now, it helped get the St. Louis Hawks into three straight NBA Finals. The even beat Boston for a championship in 1958.

But that was the second pick. The Rochester Royals had the top overall pick, and they had to be convinced not to pick Russell. So Celtics owner Walter Brown, who was also part owner of the Ice Capades, offered Rochester a chance for a guaranteed gate.

Rochester would get to fill its arena by hosting the Ice Capades in exchange for not drafting Russell. The Royals, stuck in Rochester and not having any idea what Russell would mean to the NBA, took the offer.

The Royals would soon leave Rochester and go to Kansas City, Cincinnati, and Sacramento, where they are now the Kings. So if you ever wonder why the Kings make some questionable personnel decisions, just know that it’s a long-standing tradition.


2- The Celtics draft Larry Bird in 1978 even though he goes back to college

What happened: The Celtics drafted Larry Bird with the sixth overall pick after his junior year at Indiana State, even though he didn’t declare.

Why it would be different: The rules have changed

In 1974, Larry Bird enrolled at Indiana University to play for Bobby Knight. He dropped out almost immediately and took a maintenance job in French Lick that included work on a garbage truck, and he was happy again.

“I loved that job,” Bird once told Sports Illustrated. “It was outdoors, you were around your friends. Picking up brush, cleaning up. I felt like I was really accomplishing something. How many times are you riding around your town and you say to yourself, Why don't they fix that? Why don't they clean the streets up? And here I had the chance to do that. I had the chance to make my community look better.”

Eventually, Bird went back to school, now famously becoming a star at Indiana State. In 1978, his original class graduated, which made Bird eligible for the draft regardless of his intentions. Red Auerbach took a wild gamble and picked him, even though Bird decided to go back to college. Nowadays, a player has to forego his remaining college eligibility to enter the draft. He’s have to choose whether he was in or out.

Back then, though, the rule allowed Boston some time to negotiate. The team had one year to sign him or else he could have entered the 1979 draft. Boston took a risk that they’d lose him, and that ticking clock worked in Bird’s favor. He signed a five-year deal that made him the highest-paid rookie in league history to that point, and he went on to have an okay career in Boston.


3- Robert Parish hammers Bill Laimbeer in the 1987 Eastern Conference Finals without drawing a foul


What happened: Robert Parish hit Bill Laimbeer with three punches without getting a foul called in 1987

Why it would be different:
There would have been a third referee, and there would have been a video review.

In the second quarter of Game 5 between the Celtics and Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals, Bill Laimbeer raised a left elbow as he was boxing out Robert Parish and caught the Celtics center in the neck. Parish did not appreciate the elbow to the Adam's apple, so he fired back with three straight shots to Laimbeer’s head.

Laimbeer dropped to the floor, but neither Jack Madden nor Jess Kersey, the officials for the game, saw what happened, so Parish wasn’t even called for a foul.

So the first thing that would have been different would have been the third referee, probably positioned on the right side of the floor at the hashmark, which would have provided a clear view of the play.

Secondly, this play would have been reviewed for sure in today’s game, and Parish would likely have been assessed a flagrant-2 foul and ejected. He did get fined and suspended for Game 6 in 1987, though he sprained his ankle and would have missed the game anyway. Still, there’s a strong chance he would have been suspended for longer had that happened in 2020.

The Celtic won that game on Larry Bird’s steal, which would not have happened today either (I’ll explain in a minute). If Parish is ejected, then the game flow changes dramatically and that steal probably never happens. The Celtics might have lost to the Pistons, and it would have been Lakers-Pistons in the 1987 Finals.


4- Kevin McHale’s hard foul on Kurt Rambis changes the 1984 Finals

What happened: Kevin McHale’s hard foul on Kurt Rambis in the 1984 NBA Finals rattled the Lakers and turned the series in Boston’s favor.

Why it would be different:
McHale would have been ejected and likely suspended after video review

You really only have to watch it to see what I’m talking about




In the third quarter of Game 4 with the Lakers up six and on the fast break looking to extend their lead, McHale hit Rambis with a hard clothesline that only earned him a personal foul. Both benches emptied but nothing further came of it.

The momentum shift, though, changed the entire dynamic of that series.

Instead of running and playing their showtime style of basketball, the Lakers got pulled into Boston’s more physical style of play. The Celtics came back to win Game 4 and the series.

However, there is no doubt that the play is initially called differently on the floor in today’s game and video reviewed. McHale would have easily been given a flagrant-2 and tossed, which could have been enough for the Lakers to win that game and take a 3-1 series lead.

Even if they didn’t, McHale would have been suspended at least one game for that hit, maybe more, because it was up around the head and it took Rambis down to the floor. If McHale was thrown out and suspended and the Celtics lost both games, that play would go down as one of the most boneheaded plays in team history.


5- John Havlicek’s steal in the 1965 Eastern Division Finals

What happened:
John Havlicek sealed the Game 7 win over the Philadelphia Warriors with a dramatic steal of an inbounds pass

Why it would be different: It never would have happened

In 1965, the baskets weren’t part of a big stanchion positioned how you know them to be today. The basket was attached to the wall and held in place by guide wires. Those were considered out of bounds.

So when Wilt Chamberlain scored to make it a one point game, Bill Russell quickly tried to inbound the ball and fire a long pass down court to run out the clock.

His pass hit one of those wires. The turnover is what gave Philadelphia the ball in the first place. Today, those wires wouldn’t exist, and Russell’s pass would have sailed through the air unimpeded.

Of course, we don’t know how that would have played out, but chances are Russell saw someone on his fast-breaking team running down court. This is what the Celtics did, and they did it well. It’s safe to say the ball would have at least hit someone’s hands, and Boston would have just won the game outright.

Maybe it would have bounced off someone’s fingertips and, on an alternate timeline, Havlicek makes a steal at the other end of the court to seal the game. What we do know is that without the wires there, Philadelphia doesn’t get the ball where they did, and Havlicek never has to make that signature play at all.


6- Larry Bird’s steal in the 1987 Eastern Conference Finals

What happened: Larry Bird stole a rushed inbounds pass to give Boston an improbable win over the Pistons in Game 5

Why it would be different: An out of bounds review would have eliminated Bird’s element of surprise.

We have to back up to Bird’s drive, where he got swallowed up by the Pistons. Boston was down 1, Bird failed to convert, and in the ensuing chase for the ball, it went off Jerry Sichting and to the Pistons.

Pistons ball.



The Pistons, at this point in their existence, had been stymied by the Celtics a few times. They were desperate to get past Boston. That showed when Isaiah Thomas hurriedly grabbed the ball and tried to inbound it to Bill Laimbeer.

He never surveyed the floor. He just grabbed it and threw it to the first Piston he saw. He wanted to take the game and go close the series out in Detroit.

Bird recognized what was happening and capitalized on the impatience. His steal and assist to Dennis Johnson might be the greatest play in team history.

If that play happened today, the out of bounds call would have been reviewed. Chances are the Celtics would have been the ones who begged for a review. The officials would have taken a few minutes to go and look at the different angles, determine it was Detroit ball, and give all of the Pistons a chance to calm down, draw up a play, and remember they could call a timeout if they needed to.

Maybe Bird would have found another way to make a play. Maybe they would have fouled, Detroit would have missed a free throw, and Bird would have hit a 3-pointer to save the game and his signature moment would have been different. It’s hard to say.

What I can say with confidence is that this moment is lost. It never happens this way in 2020. The review process would have radically changed how the last five seconds played out. This play, as it happened, wouldn’t exist.

This doesn’t mean that things are bad in 2020. There are signature moments that happen in today’s game that might not happen in the 2050 game. The game evolves and creates its own greatness along the way. I don’t think anyone here is pining for the days of guide wires and two officials.

Things are just… different. It’s interesting to see how much the game has changed and how the quirks of the game led to unique circumstances.



bob
MY NOTE:  These six examples are some of the reasons I don't join in on inter-era comparisons.  The differences in size and athleticism aren't the only differences.  Try to imagine Paul George running into a Karl Malone elbow, or one of today's players trying to keep the other Malone, Moses, off the offensive boards.  Jokic is too slow and if we're renting out a 3 bedroom flat in Embiid's head Moses would own the Playboy Mansion there.  


.

bob

The differences that exist in level of play between the Bird generation and the present generation are minuscule when compared to those that exist between the Russell days and the current players. I loved those early years - every glorias monent of the Russell years - but a look back at history and the records and my personal recollections shows just how inferior in size,skil and race the game was then, when compared to the present generation.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Tue May 05, 2020 12:36 pm

Was discussing with a friend what a pussy Durant is and we were saying that Rodman or Pippen could shut him down. He made a great analogy, with today’s rules Rodman would foul out in 10 minutes, with the 80’s rules Durant would quit in 10 minutes.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Tue May 05, 2020 12:42 pm

Also in the 6th game in LA of that series, Worthy closelined Maxwell the same way, tit for tat, and was not thrown out. How about what a dirty cheap shot artist Laimbeer was his whole career? He got in a brawl with every major star from that era....

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Post by RosalieTCeltics Tue May 05, 2020 2:52 pm

There are many players today who whine everytime someone comes anywhere near them. Look at LeBron, he is a huge whiner, Guys just can handle great defense today, ref's protect the big names in the league. It is just so different. Wilt went after Sam Jones one night, Sam picked up a chair to defend himself until Russell and the rest of the guys stepped in. But he was not afraid of him. Suspensions galore if defense was played that way today
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Post by swish Tue May 05, 2020 4:11 pm

Here's a list of front court players ( last 70 years ) who played at least 30000 minutes -  sorted by fewest personal fouls per 36 minutes. Were they star players that were given a break by the officials or players that worked hard at avoiding being called for fouls?

http://bkref.com/tiny/Dz4GZ

  swish.

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Post by gyso Tue May 05, 2020 6:07 pm

swish wrote:Here's a list of front court players ( last 70 years ) who played at least 30000 minutes -  sorted by fewest personal fouls per 36 minutes. Were they star players that were given a break by the officials or players that worked hard at avoiding being called for fouls?

 http://bkref.com/tiny/Dz4GZ

  swish.

Yes Very Happy

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Post by swish Tue May 05, 2020 6:45 pm

gyso wrote:
swish wrote:Here's a list of front court players ( last 70 years ) who played at least 30000 minutes -  sorted by fewest personal fouls per 36 minutes. Were they star players that were given a break by the officials or players that worked hard at avoiding being called for fouls?

 http://bkref.com/tiny/Dz4GZ

  swish.

Yes  Very Happy

 Could be that great players have a special gift when it comes to mesmerizing the officials.

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