Referees mandated to call more technicals in the NBA this year?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5609817

Sounds fair enough.

It is something that bothers me when I watch the game, all the "discussing" with the officials. If you talk to the official to get a clarification so you do not make the same mistake again that is ok but all too often it is arguing that they were wrong.

The technicals also seem to be given in a rather random fashion which of course is partially because we do not hear what the players say. It still makes it look bad when one player gets a technical while walking away while a different seems to be able to follow the official around.

Hopefully they will be able to and allowed to stand their ground (the officials).

I'd just be happy if they would honestly call a proportionately equal # of regular fouls on LeBron. Didn't some journalist write an article on that where he is like 2 whole fouls per game short of the league average?

The experiment in Miami with finally bare/bail the conspiracy theorists out. Not enough fouls to go around, Lebron. It was easy hiding in CLE with 4 nobodys on the floor. Not anymore.

Oh boy...
Why don't they just make refs to vote which team is the winner: 3 refs=3 votes = no ties.
On the bright side: a) Perk won't get any T until probably February and b) he'll have enough time to rehab after plastic surgery changing his normal, on-court facial expression to a smiley face. Otherwise, he'll be ejected right after the first foul (the first T will be given a few seconds after he steps on the floor).

Seriously. Does the league try to mask inadequate, sometimes plane ridiculous, performance of the refs? Or, they try to avoid fighting on two fronts: players and refs?
"Ron Johnson, the NBA's senior vice president of referee operations, said audience research was a major factor behind the most recent change." What a baloney - I didn't know that NBA is a political entity.

AK

LOL at comments by sinus about Perk's plastic surgery...
Kobe's scowl might need some softening too...

dbrown4 wrote:I'd just be happy if they would honestly call a proportionately equal # of regular fouls on LeBron. Didn't some journalist write an article on that where he is like 2 whole fouls per game short of the league average?

The experiment in Miami with finally bare/bail the conspiracy theorists out. Not enough fouls to go around, Lebron. It was easy hiding in CLE with 4 nobodys on the floor. Not anymore.

dbrown,

You are right about the fouls called on LeBron.
He does have tremendous body control but when I looked at his fouls in each game, there was something like 20 games when he had 0 or 1 fouls in a game last season.
For a guy that plays physical for 40 minutes, that is a remarkable stat.

tj,

It's simply ridiculous. Should be interesting, though. I'm counting fouls and should be fouls this year in Miami. BTW, when can we order League Pass?!

dbrown4 wrote:tj,

It's simply ridiculous. Should be interesting, though. I'm counting fouls and should be fouls this year in Miami. BTW, when can we order League Pass?!

I haven't looked into League Pass yet but will do so soon.
On the NBA channel they were playing the finals games again and I was almost mesmerized by the games.
I have always considered myself a baseball junkie but for the first time I would have to admit that I am more insterested in the NBA then MLB.
I am sure a lot of it is being on this forum even during the off-season.

How are NBA rules like medications? Because they all-too-often wind up causing negative side-effects. I'm afraid this will just be another example, no matter how well-intentioned the change is.

The underlying objectives of this move are definitely understandable. In fact, I'd extend it to include players trying to influence the refs, such as by immediately pointing to whatever direction is in their favor when a ball goes out of bounds. Either that or have a courtside guillotine available to cut off the arm that made the gesture. (I really hate that posturing. Shut the frig up and let the refs referee, idiot!)

One of the reasons I hate all the posturing, grimacing and arguing is that it usually winds up slowing down the game. And, when they eventuated in one or more technicals, the game is slowed even more. Shooting a larger number of technicals, and dragging both teams to the other end for the free throw in many cases, will slow down the game even more.

I don't know why they can't just use points rather than free throws for the other team as the penalty. Simply add a point to the opponent's score when a technical is called and keep on playing. If bitching or moaning about the call prevents the ref from putting the ball in play, call a delay of game.

They could also consider an even more extreme measure. When a player's cumulative technicals in a season reach five, add two points rather than one for each succeeding technical. When they reach ten, add three points. And so on, with the number of added points increasing by one each time the player reaches a new cumulative five-point "milestone." Perhaps double the number of added points for the hardest fouls.

I'd do away with the suspension of a player after he has acquired a certain number of technicals. I'd rather let him play but make him more of a game-to-game liability for his team as the season wears on. Half the time, a player forced to sit out a game actually gains from the experience by getting a much needed rest late in the season. I mean, if they're going to amend the rule, give it some teeth.

If all of this is too extreme, they could use half-points instead.

What they are doing (as so often happens) is addressing an issue that is an important one, but I fear it will ultimately hurt the fans by making the game more boring.

Sam

I get the point of this but fear that it's making the players into robots. The game is an emotional one and sometimes guy react. I know some guys ALWAYS react regardless of the justification of the foul called or not, but some guys do pick and choose when they react and IMO those guys should not be penalized for honest emotion.

I agree with you Sam. Just play the game and let the officials (try to) do their job. Arguing with them does not make them make better calls (as far as I know).

I guess it could be that I am so fed up with soccer players and their constant flopping and arguing with the refs that I just get frustrated when I see similar things in basketball.

As pointed out I do not know if this will work or is the right way to go but I wish the extra curricular parts (hope I used the word right) could just be gone with.

celtic fan wrote:I get the point of this but fear that it's making the players into robots. The game is an emotional one and sometimes guy react. I know some guys ALWAYS react regardless of the justification of the foul called or not, but some guys do pick and choose when they react and IMO those guys should not be penalized for honest emotion.

Reacting to a call and then walking away was/is permitted. Passion is and should be a part of the game, with that reactions come and that should be ok.

It is when a player "discusses" with an official that it becomes bothersome for all parts. It sucks for the official because he has someone bitching and trying to influence him. It sucks for the game because it slows it down and like mentioned in the article "makes them look like a bunch of whiners".

I realize that a lot of people do not like the quality of the officials and their calls but do you think they make better calls because of the constant arguing and discussinh? If anything it probably stresses them to make a worse job.

If you get a foul called on you I guess it can be fair to ask kind of "for what?" if you are uncertain so you do not do it again (although the player is obviously responsible for knowing and adhering to the rules, even without and explanation). Other than that you should just shut up and walk away.

But this new ruling takes away the 'for what' and even takes away from showing emotions away from the ref

• Players making aggressive gestures, such as air punches, anywhere on the court.

• Demonstrative disagreement, such as when a player incredulously raises his hands, or smacks his own arm to demonstrate how he was fouled.

• Running directly at an official to complain about a call.

• Excessive inquiries about a call, even in a civilized tone.


seems a bit excessive IMO. Yeah the whinners need to stop but this is too extreme

I have to agree with you, CF. In fact, I was going to mention, in my thread, that we sometimes have to take the bad with the good. The same passion that fuels great plays on the court can also give rise to negative actions. I'm glad you mentioned a very important point.

I think the problem with any issue like the ones these rules are addressing is that they have to be administered with a heavy dose of common sense. Perhaps there should be some type of referee review every couple of months during the season. They can excerpt isolated plays and make great videos for scouting or player evaluation purposes. Why not referee evaluation too?

Maybe something like that already exists. If so, they may want to improve the process or evaluate the evaluators, because it ain't working particularly well.

Sam

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out after a few games are won/lost by a point or two and the refs called the losing team for a T or two just because players or coaches looked at them wrong.

bob

.

Without seeing it implemented, I'll say that I generally like the new approach. I think it will mostly affect two types of players:

-- Ones who have a difficult time controlling their emotions regarding calls. Perk and Rasheed are the examples that come to mind. These players show a lack of discipline regarding calls, and they need to control themselves better. We don't need to see a "Who, me?" or "You've GOT to be kidding" demonstration for what seems like every call against them.

-- Stars who complain when they don't get foul calls when they drive to the hoop. Kobe and LeBron are the examples that come to mind. They get away with complaining more because they're stars, and they're always pushing the limit to see how much they can get away with. The thing is, these guys are typically disciplined athletes who act like borderline idiots because they're allowed to get away with it. They'll still push it to the limit to see how much they can get away with, but they'll adapt fairly quickly to whatever the limit is.

I'm hopeful that there will be a side benefit -- if players are forced to tone down their behavior, refs might tone down theirs, too. Too many refs put on a show, and sometimes I think their behavior is a response to the players' theatrics. If the players shut up and play, maybe the refs will shut up and ref. One can hope.

Outside

Hi again,
I think these new rules will be very detrimental to NBA.
Vast majority of players are very emotional. They will show those emotions, especially in close games and playoffs, no mater what the rules are. On the other hand refs know that if they stick to the rules they may need to T and subsequently eject a few players. They can't afford it (only Billy Cristal could). So, they start to be selective. Now, the primadonnas a la Lebron will naturally be excluded which put additional load on others. As a result NBA will become extension of WWF very soon.

Currently there's no rating system for the refs. At least what the general public is aware of. Currently they have absolute power over games. Now they're given even more power... Bad news, very bad.
I don't think these new rules will speed up the flow of the games. Right now majority of the events those rules supposed to be applied to are happening during a stoppage time, e.g. foul shots, substitution, or on the fly, e.g. a player slapping his arm to indicate that he was fouled while running back.
Anyway, I don't think these rules will stick as they haven't the first time around. The sad part is that the league's trying to fix a problem by using a band-aid and even that is applied at the wrong place.

AK

sinus,

There is a rating system for the referees and that is how they determine who refs the playoff games/finals.
The link below has a story about the group that oversees the referees.

I don't see how the superstars would benefit from tighter restrictions...

The game might initially slow down to a degree but if the referees show they are serious about the enforcement, then the players will curtail their actions and words and the games will be less confrontational between the players and referees and the players won't complain about every foul call.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3469129

tjmakz wrote:

There is a rating system for the referees and that is how they determine who refs the playoff games/finals.
The link below has a story about the group that oversees the referees.

Thanks, TJ

I don't see how the superstars would benefit from tighter restrictions...

They won't, they just will be exempt. Even now throwing a fist in the air is a T for almost any player except Kobe. Or kicking water cups/bottles is allowed only for LJ. I don't see it'll change with the implementation of the new rules.

The game might initially slow down to a degree but if the referees show they are serious about the enforcement, then the players will curtail their actions and words and the games will be less confrontational between the players and referees and the players won't complain about every foul call.

Maybe you're right. But I'll stick to what I said in my previous post: new rules=bad news.

AK

More over regulation and BS from David Stern and his merry band of stripped idiots.

Getting frustrated at a close call while complaining to YOURSELF is now grounds for a technical?

In any other line of work, it is acceptable to "discuss" issues of disagreement. Someone like KG or Kobe, who have been in the league for a long time DESERVES the respect of the refs and should have the right to discuss things with them. Not yell at them, not disrupt the flow of the game, but a quick honest discussion is not only part of the NBA - it is part of life.

On certain nights, even as a devout fan - it is hard to watch an NBA game. I enjoyed the physicality and leniency of the International game this summer....and would love to see the NBA allow players to actually play for a change. Instead they come up with MORE stringent policies. Talk about being out of touch.

The league mucky mocks know what the fans want without doing any market research? Bushwa! Just saying so doesn't make it so.

This is the league's way of saying that the problem isn't the referees - the blown calls, the bad calls, and the 'Bron calls. No, no. The problem is the players. A guy gets called for a phantom foul and he throws his hands up in the air in frustration. Give him a T.

"It's a one way street in a one horse town
One way people starting to brag around
You can laugh, put them down
These one way people gonna blow us down."

- Charlie Can't Surf by The Clash.

The problem is not that the players are complaining. If the referees did their jobs right, there would be far fewer complaints and the poor-me crybabies would stand out.

The problem is that the league office is corrupt. They sold the game for money and power. After the 2002 gift to the Lakers and the Donaghy scandal/ revelations, basketball is one rung up from wrestling in terms of credibility.

If they really want a sport that fans would turn to, they should make it more like hockey, like it used to be back in the Fifties and Sixties, back in the good old days. But that wouldn't draw the corporate sponsors that David Stern prefers.

I'd prefer to hear talk about better training for the referees, or of a system for the players to air their grievances, perhaps with film to prove their point. Or, how about introducing the referees to the crowd before each game (the way they used to) and having them hold a press conference after the game to answer for their actions?

This whole bit of bushwa reminds me of another Clash song: Working for the Clampdown.

BUMP.

Can you believe this BS?

David Stern took a sport that was already plagued with inept officiating - that is hit or miss and disruputs the flow of the greatest athletes in the world and instituted rules to make it worse?

Are these people in the NBA league office morons or just TRYING to destroy the game?

I managed to miss Garnett getting his Ts by going to the bathroom.

What gets me the most is that it seems unpredictable when they feel like applying those new rules. KG got two and then all in a sudden Mozgov gets one (compensation I guess) who is walk away towards the bench.

At half time they interview Stoudemire about it and he thinks the new rules are "great" cause people should just play ball. Dont know if he means it or if he just felt like he had to say that but throughout the game one sees him looking towards the officials on several occasions (where is the foul) which as it seems, might or might not give you a T.

Then of course you D'Antoni going at it on several occasions with no technical...

Bad rule or not, the most important thing (after the rule is already in effect that is) is that it is applied the same to all players and all situations and that is definitely not what is going on now. Some officials seem to still be "willing to talk things over a little" and some will get you for getting a bug in your eye.

Really good insight on this from the Comcast broadcast team.

Tommy Heinsohn said - Basketball is an emotional game, and if you try and take the emotion out of it – you ruin the flow of the game. He also said that he thought while players do sometimes talk too much to the officials, that over the years the veteran refs and veterans players find their balance and learn to tolerate each other as part of the game.

I think in the end Sherrod Blakley may be correct in saying this is the pre-season for rules as well. His comments were basically, a few years ago they even changed the basketball they use – and that didn’t last much past the pre-season. He feels by opening night, the kinks will already start to work themselves out and over time the refs will go back to the give and take they are used to with the players.

Hope he is right as no one wants to pay $100+ dollars for a ticket to see stars like KG ejected by some two dollar rookie ref. In spite of his bloated ego and inflated fat head – David Stern has to understand that the fans there to see THE PLAYERS not his gang of bumbling idiots in stripes.