The Road to 18 Started Tonight...Official Post-game Thread Celtics vs. Sixers 10/6/10

[LACELTFAN]

Hope Springs Eternal.... Celtic fans everywhere can look forward to another exciting year. Can't wait!

[Sam]

LACelt,

Your post seemed like such a natural lead-in to a post-game thread that I couldn't resist enlarging on your title somewhat. I hope you don't mind.

Sam

[dbrown4]

I could not find the game on our local TV here in NC. Shocker. (Sarcastic) But doing the quick perusal from last night and understanding Doc wants to see the new guys play, Glen and Marquis certainly stood up to the challenge, if there was one.

Looks like the Celtics were getting hacked in the act and not too many And 1's with 26 fouls against Phila and 43 attempts by us. Ratio would be closer to 1 if more And 1's, closer to 2 if fouled in the act and not making subsequent shot. (Also, Phila was just about fouling them in the act through the first 4 "freebie" fouls before the penalty. We were 9 attempts shy of a 2/1.) Any league averages on that ratio, anyone?

I would guess deriving dependable substitution patterns were off the table given everyone played but JON, AB and KP.

How did Delonte look out there? Goose egg performance goes to Vanilla "Extract" Wafer.

Free throws out the 70% range finally. That I like. If you're going to get hacked and not make the basket, better make 85% or better to make them pay.

New guys Lasme and Erdin did very well with Lasme getting the efficiency award with 12 points in 7 minutes.

Just guessing sporadic play given all the substitutions

Very strong +/- for the starters. Clearly Phila was overmatched.

It appears we've solved the rebounding problem at least for the moment but with all those missed shots by us, offensive rebound #'s should have been higher, IMHBAO.

Assists/FGM is just barely in Sam's comfort zone (60% push), but we'll slack off on that one given all the subs and dominant bench time.

PIP % could have been higher with Shaq, but he did well.

Ray is Ray. Still can shoot deep.

OK, that's my best guess just looking at the tape. What did I miss? How horrendously off was I?

[sinus007]

Hi,
Congrats everybody with the start of the new season (pre-).
Hear, hear, LACelt, about 18.
A few observations from the last night's game.
1. The usual suspects are still there. Sans Perk, of course. Unfortunately didn't see much of KG: missed the first half of Q1. PP was kind of quiet - not much to talk about. RR as usual tries to defy laws of nature trying to be in two places at the same time. RA is going and going and going. BBD wrestles anybody and anything to get hold of the ball.
2. New faces. Shaq seemed to be having a lot of fun on the floor and the bench. I hope he'll adjust his attitude when there's an opposition (unlike yesterday). DW looked solid. Interestingly, Doc put him in to direct the "cadets" in the last 4-5 min of the game. I liked SE: solid performance and hustle. LH was overexcited; hope he'll settle down and show all he's capable of. I liked Lasme, could be PP's backup. It's too early to draw any conclusions but he seemed to perform better than MD.
In general, good start and a lot of rough edges that need to be polished.
Now OT question to the people in the know. Lasme and M West are signed as FA (per Yahoo Sports). What does it mean in terms of the final roster?

Thank you very much,
AK

[beat]

dbrown

I watched "most" of it and it never was much too watch as far as game was concerned. C's looked like they were having fun and as Tommy mentioned sometimes "passed" too much.

Erdin certainly rose to a level above a stiff and just might make the team. Certainly can't ever have enough bigs. Rebounding and the outlet pass were good.

Baby still can't finish any better than last year. (oh for a couple more inches) or if he really were 6'9"!!!

Played pretty good team D with switching and picking up OK, considering this was Phillys bench for the most part.

Loved the pressure that Rondo and Nate put on the guards from Philly, Again the Philly guards arn't elite but still...........

I was very interested in the job done late by Lasme. Talk about a guy trying to impress. He went left right got fouled (made the freebees) and rebounded like a beast. (again 1 game against Philly's bench) but he reminded me of one Cedric Maxwell a bit.

Luke never really got in the flow but still rebounded OK and husttled on D which is what is expected.

OK the issue will be which 2 don't make it of the 17 we got?

Team appears to be deep as any team we've had is years.
My final 4 of which 2 will be gone are Harangody, Wafer, West(not Delonte) and Bradley. I think Erdin makes it. (not sure of contracts ect just based on what he have)

Just some observations in no particular order.

beat

[swedeinestonia]

Lasme showed good energy and hustle on offense, do not know about defense.

Von Wafer looked off to me but he did not touch the ball much either.

supposedly he is a good defender? that is what draft express says..

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Stephane-Lasme-1079/

I guess he might work against bigger 3s.

[dbrown4]

I'm going to guess the league average ratio on FTA to PF is 26/22, close to 1/1. (Don't have league stats past 2007 season but this number appears amazingly constant over time) Which implies teams, on average, judiciously use their first 4 fouls as fouls and no subsequent free throws for the opposition and when they do reach the penalty, it's more likely an And 1.

I know I'm crossing stats here (PF on one team, free throws to the opposition), but this is just based on averages across all teams.

Ours was much closer to 2/1 (1.65). I have no idea what that implies, but it sounds interesting! OK, I've lost everyone!

[swedeinestonia]

What was up with Von Wafers technical btw?

Last quarter of a pre-season game and you are up by like 30.

[bobheckler]

My observations differed somewhat from previous posters. Let's remember too, that we were effectively playing the Philly bench all night. Iguodala, Nocioni, Elton Brand and Tony Battie did not play. That's basically their entire frontcourt.

1. Pierce and Davis are in season-shape. They're ready now. Pierce didn't shoot a lot, but he was smooth and in rhythm. Sure, Davis is still a few inches too short (What's the problem? He had all summer to grow!) but he was active, aggressive and took it to them. Rondo looked good too, especially on defense. In fact, our defense looked great, period.

2. KG's offense was off (way off!) but his defense is back (way back!). He's back to quick, with spring in his leaps. He knows it too and was talking smack like nobody's business and he wasn't doing that last year when he was playing but was a mere shadow of himself. He's feeling very good about himself and it's obvious.

3. Shaq's defensive rotations were slow and he only came halfway up the paint to cut off a pick-and-roll penetration. Not that good, since it gave up uncontested foul line jumpers. His outlet passing though, was fantastic. He was rebounding the ball securely and getting it out of the pack to close to midcourt swiftly. If that's something we can look forward to all season, our running game is going to get a big boost.

4. Ray had a very good game. He shot well and rebounded very well. He's ready too.

5. Delonte didn't score, but his defense was very good, including a spectacular weak side block on somebody else's man. He and Lasme had a nice two man game going. Lasme went to the hoop a lot. Good free throw shooter too (6-7) but I have no idea if he can shoot outside of 5 feet. Last night, he didn't need to.

6. Mario West didn't accomplish much statistically, but I see why they say he's smart and plays hard. I look forward to seeing him again. He looks like a hard-nosed baller.

7. Luke's game was rushed. His shot wasn't dropping, for the most part, but he was consistently near the ball. Sometimes he was a step slow to get to it, and that could be the downfall of his NBA career, but he definitely has a nose for it. He needs to settle down a bit and get past his rookie jitters.

8. Marquis looked pretty good but...His shot wasn't dropping, his defense was good, but I still wasn't all that impressed with him. We're still going to need help at 3 if Lasme doesn't make the cut and we need to see more of him before we'll know that.

9. Erden looked very good. I was underwhelmed by him in summer league but he looked good last night against Hawes. That's a matchup that makes sense since it's 3rd string Celtic vs 2nd string Sixer. It could happen. Outran Hawes downcourt. Made some nice blocks and played good position defense. I was very pleased with what I saw. Made one stupid mental mistake (the Celts were taking the ball out with 1 second to shoot, Erden got the ball on top and didn't know about the clock and just held it and we got a 24-second violation) but made up for it on the next series by drawing the double team and hitting the cutting Davis for a layup. Very nice courtvision by Erden. He picked up a lot of fouls, so that's not good.

9. The only player who didn't help himself last night was Von Wafer (Nein, Mein Herr!). His job is to shoot and he did everything but. He penetrated and tried to dish. Picked up 3 fouls because he wasn't staying in front of his man on defense. Listen up Von: we're not hiring you to be a point guard, we're hiring you to be a gunner so do yourself a favor and start shooting.

18 turnovers are too many. To be fair, some of them were caused by overaggressive passing trying to push the ball up, and I can live with those. It's the brain-dead halfcourt passes that unhinge me.

Now, on to an equally inept opponent, the New Jersey Nets.

bob

.

[mulcogiseng]

Greetings from Maine
What a fun game to watch with my parents, son and daughter. 3 generations and all hard core. LOL We just missed on getting it together to go to the game, like the Sox, mebbe next year. As much fun as the game was, it was great to hear Tommy's voice again.
This looks like a very deep team and it sure seems that The Big Shamrock could have showed up a lot bigger. Methinks he has come to play! Like most, Lasme was impressive to me in terms of hustle. Where did he come from? Didn't know he had been signed. This is definitely going to be a team that exhibits real length and that had been in short supply. ha

Start heading back to NC on Friday and fly back to Az on Tuesday. It's been a hard trip physically for me with my 91 year old dad doing better than me at some points LOL Don't know whether I'm more chagrinned by still being sick or by how well the olde codger is still doing.

This is going to be a great season so get ready to really really enjoy it. I'll be in touch again next week.
Mulcogi

[jeb]

Beat

Thats exactly what i thought when i saw Lasme's game...corn bread. For me the biggest pleasant surprise was The Turk's 1. soft hands 2. toughness around the hoop. If he can catch Rondo's heat and finish and play that kind of d that is just huge. HUGE- the other thing I like was the vets obvious respect for Shaq and Shaq's overall court sense. I can see some chemistry building. I also liked that Shaq ran the floor. Keep it up big guy. There are going to be time when opposing guards want to lay down on the floor and cry when getting picked in succession by Shaq and KG. There are going to be a lot of open shots and a lot of layups as a result of said picks. ALl in all I'd say we upgraded our scoring in a significant way. Cant wait for tonight.

[jeb]

One more thing. I also thought Delonte looked comfortable out there and had a very nice floor game. IMHO a way better fit on all levels of ball than Tony Allen.

[swedeinestonia]

Shaq running will generate easy points either for him or someone else like Ray when the defense collapses.

I liked what I saw from Lasme, he put in effort and he also provides a different look than Pierce/Daniels. Depth is nice but just adding more of the same I think is a waste of roster spots so I would rather keep Lasme than lets say Von Wafer.

In my opinion Von Wafer is not going to provide enough scoring to justify keeping him around when you already got Robinson, West and Allen that can all shoot the ball fine. Bradley can supposedly shoot good enough that you cant just back off him (like teams do on Rondo sometimes) and is an elite defender. I would keep Bradley around for his possible upside.

Depth is nice but not just "more of the same", especially not if it is "all around" decent players. I would rather have someone like Lasme that gives that energizer/rebounding situational than another person on the bench that does the same as someone else but just slightly worse.

This is all just from the one game so far so it will probably change but my roster would be:

perk-oneal-oneal-erden
KG-Davis
Pierce-Daniels-Lasme
West-Robinson-Allen
Rondo-Bradley

That leaves one spot that could be spent on whatever really. I would probably rather see Harangody than Von Wafer just because of potential upside and "effort" but if Von Wafer could show some scoring I guess I would go for him.

I would definitely keep Erden around. Even if he would not play for us I am pretty certain he is good enough to provide a little bit of trade value for some other role player. Teams will always find value in a big man that is atleast decent.

Just my uneducated opinions on a thursday night..

[beat]

Jeb

I'll do another look tonight at Lasme but dam didn't he remind me of Max. Remember a few years back we had the Eric Willliams guy that stuck around long enough to get traded. Lasme is somewhere between these two.

Good length to cover some 3's perhaps short turn, not at all sure of the D however comming over from Golden State!!! But darn he seems to have a nose for the hoop just like Max. In looking at his record the 6-7 from the line is a bit above his average but he sure looked good stroking it last evening.


Swede

Not sure whom will end up in the D league. There are really some tought decisions for the final roster spot or two and even more if DA and Doc decide to keep an "open" spot to fill in later as need be.

But we have as much depth in 4 of the 5 slots as we have had in a long time. And if Doc can manage the minutes to keep all fresh we can inflict some serious damage to almost every team.

Even if Perk doesn't come back we still are pretty good.

Noticed you have Robinson listed as a 2. Probably will be there a lot but also play a little point to. Of course thats the beauty of this bunch we have as much flexability as ever with many combinatiosn for Doc to play with.
From a BIG line up to a quick line up and a lot in between.

beat

[swedeinestonia]

I listed Robinson as a 2 mostly to show that Von Wafers shooting/scoring isnt really that needed IN MY OPINION. Nate is instant offense if he wants to be and I think Delonte can score fine too.

Rondo-Allen will be a 1-2 but Robinson-West is not as clear, both Delonte and Robinson can play both and that is why Von Wafer is kind of superfluous in my opinion. Even if one of them goes down before Bradley comes back they can get by. Last year Rondo was pretty much the only PG and we got by!

[sinus007]

Swede,
Your roster looks ok. I'd make 2 corrections: add LH to 2 and swap AB and Nate: IMO it's very hard to play against guys who 6-7" higher than you on every day basis.
As for 15 vs 14, I don't know what's better in Celtics particular case. If one spare spot is better then, I guess, bye-bye to LH.
Also, there're 7 more games that'd give Doc and DA much better idea who stays, who goes.

AK

[Sam]

A "too early to tell much" disclaimer comes with every game this early in the midseason. Perhaps it proved only that the Celtics are vastly superior to the Sixers in extended garbage time.

BUT, certain indications or tendencies can come to light.

1. The Celtics are going to combat the pick-and-roll by having the guards play up aggressively on their men to throw off their rhythm and timing.

2. The guards will also be a key to improved rebounding by the Celtics. Even when Shaq and Erden don't grab a board, guys like Ray, Rondo and Delonte will be hanging around to steal the ball from the scrum. Last night, the guards had 27 rebounds to 21 for the big men.

3. Shaq will be even more effective on offense once he gets with the program and starts rolling to the hoop. Most of his baskets were on individual efforts.

4. The Celtics will run at every opportunity. Last night, they had to because, as someone said, they hadn't put in any plays yet. As the season progresses, players will wear down, but that will be compensated by better timing and the running of more plays in the halfcourt. As it was last night, I was rather amazed at the very good timing on several inside passes, even involving guys who were not with the team last season.

5. Semih is a human pick-and-roll machine. That it his instinct on almost every set play; and he makes it more effective by also being a very good inside passer. His defense can be a bit awkward at times, but he moves pretty well on "D." He needs some lessons from Glen Davis in how to cut off the angle on his man and attract more charges. More and more, I believe some of his skills may have been less effective in leagues with lesser players than they will be in the NBA. He just plan knows the game pretty well. Just seeing him clamp onto every ball he touches is pure pleasure, and he definitely has some inside offensive moves in which he justifiably has great confidence. He's still a work in progress, but I don't recall seeing, even at this early point, one aggravating moving pick by the Celtics all night—which was pure pleasure.

6. The offense this year will be run more inside-out than previously. I won't be surprised if Rondo's assists drop somewhat, with the slack being taken up by guys like KG, Shaq and Erden...and with Rondo more often making the pass before the pass.

7. While it's true that Glen Davis has no more lift than last year, he is doing a better job of keeping his body between the ball and his defender. Therefore, he may not finish any better than before but it looks as though he could as much as double the number of free throws he shoots. So one key to a great year for him could well involve keeping up the free throw percentage as he did last night.

8. Delonte may be the most determined Celtic at this juncture (although there are many candidates). He's not filling up the stat sheet, as I believe he's one player who needs the structure of play calling to perform at his best. But he's playing very tight defense. I was interested in hearing Heinsohn say that he's more confident in Delonte's defense against SFs than against SGs.

9. Amidst all the playground basketball emerged the profile of a team that is going to be offensively scary once they get some patterns in their set plays. I realize they weren't playing much of a team, but everyone knows I believe that, once a team displays an ability (especially if it seems like second nature), they don't lose that ability. It's just a matter of setting the stage so they have increasing numbers of opportunities to utilize the ability. I believe that will happen over the course of this season.

10. I continue to believe that, with improved lateral movement by KG, more perimeter aggressiveness by the guards, and increased familiarity with some new defensive concepts, their defense will once again be suffocating at times. BUT this year, unlike any of the past three years, the offense of both units could be at least on par with the defense.

11. Like others, I couldn't help but be impressed by Lasme's statistical per-minute production. And he obviously has plenty of hops. He's listed as a PF, but I believe he'd be a natural at the "3" position. It's too early to judge him defensively, because the sixers could barely keep out of each other's way last night. My one concern about him offensively (although I realize his defense would be his calling card) is that he gets virtually all his points going to the basket. Of the bench, that would also be the case for Glen Davis, whoever plays center, and (if he's playing) Daniels. I'm thinking it could get a little crowded out there. But, except for one nice pass, Wafer looked completely lost by comparison. So, as things stand right now, I'd rather see Lasme groomed to fit the Celtics' defensive SF needs than to pay Wafer to provide what would appear to be superfluous offense.

All of the above is obviously subject to change. What is not subject to change is my enthusiasm about this team. There are too many "pros" and not enough "cons" to allow for the possibility of reconsideration (pending, of course, the possibility of injuries.

Sam

[Jerry Tarkanian]

Also believe in consideration of financial restraints, C's have done a masterful job reconstructing the bench. Believe that will be key to the team's success in the Spring.

[bobheckler]

Courtesy of Chris Forsberg, Hookers Anonymous (aka ESPN) Boston (bolds are mine):

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Semih Erden admits he understands more English than he's able to speak since arriving stateside. That much was obvious Wednesday night as he sat on the Boston Celtics' bench, an impressive NBA debut behind him, and chuckled at the antics of teammates Glen Davis and Nate Robinson.

Davis playfully dubbed Erden, "Semih Automatic," singing the nickname as the three players sat huddled at the end of the bench. Robinson tried to demonstrate some American dance moves as Young MC's "Bust a Move" played over the arena's PA system during a timeout.

Erden showcased his own set of moves by registering 13 points in a team-high 23 minutes, 44 seconds of playing time in his pro debut as the Celtics thrashed the Philadelphia 76ers 93-65 in their preseason opener at the Verizon Wireless Arena.

"Oh yeah, he can't really communicate with us yet, but we're teaching him a few things," Davis said with a smile after the game. "He looked good out there."

Erden connected on all three shots he took, but also got to the free-throw line, where he drained seven of eight attempts. He filled up his stat line with five rebounds and a team-best two blocks.

"Semih was terrific," Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. "He played great. That's why I kept him out there. I told you before the game I was [going to play him extended minutes] anyway, but he knows how to play. He's very physical."

It didn't hurt that he got some gentle prodding from the likes of Shaquille O'Neal, who delivered the hit of the night in the first half with a vicious shoulder charge that sent Philadelphia's Marreese Speights sprawling to the floor.

At one point in the second half, after Erden didn't take advantage of a one-on-one matchup against Speights with a chance to back him down, Shaq called for the Turkish 7-footer's attention and screamed, "Semih, kill him." An incredulous Speights shouted back boisterously at the Boston bench, only to watch Erden get the ball, back him down and get to the foul line.

"He played well, he played aggressive," Shaq said of Erden's effort. "Going up against three great big men each day in myself, [Jermaine O'Neal] and [Kevin Garnett], he's going to be a force for us."

Just moments after checking in for Garnett late in the first quarter, Erden got a pass alone on the right block and delivered a monster two-handed jam, then hung on the rim a little longer than a rookie probably should. That didn't stop Garnett from tumbling off the bench in delight and raising his arm to salute the play from the other end of the court.

Without Jermaine O'Neal, who sat out the game with a sore left hamstring, Erden got extended minutes with the second unit and played most of the second half.

Rivers went into the game with that very plan, believing Erden will be an integral part of Boston's success this season. But his strong play gave the coach only more confidence to keep him on the floor.

"The guy I really plan on playing a lot of minutes [this preseason], besides Delonte [West], is Semih," Rivers said before the game. "We may need him. To think that Jermaine and Shaq are going to be healthy all year until [Kendrick Perkins] gets back is unrealistic, in my opinion. Semih would be the guy, so we have to move him along."

bob

.

[Sam]

Bob,

One has to salute Doc for never getting so caught up in the moment that he fails to think ahead. Just another example of how he's the ideal coach for this team at this time.

That has to be one of the great nicknames: "Semih Automatic."

Ordinarily I'd be concerned about focus by seeing so much hilarity on the Boston bench. But this team seems amazingly secure in its mostly veteran mentality.

There's just one word of caution I'd have. Last season, I felt that, despite anyone's protestations to the contrary, the Celtics identified so closely with Sheed's personality that they had to work hard to get back on track late in the season. This team appears close to identifying with Shaq's persona without sharing Shaq's portfolio and track record.

It's very attractive to take note of this guy who achieves while sort of laughing his way through life. I expect Shrek and Donkey have already fallen under the spell, and it could easily happen to Semih without his even realizing it. Even Rondo and the football tossing at an early practice seemed a departure from his fierce concentration on the game. And, for Pete's sake, he was tossing the ball to Danny Ainge!

Don't get me wrong. I love having a team that's confident and loose...as long as it's all just one of many means to an end and doesn't become the end itself.

Sam

[mrkleen09]

Last night was fun. Really glad to have the green back. My observations:

-Shaq looked good. He got up and down the court well on a number of occasions, and looked pretty fluid offensively. He is slow on switches and such, but is a human rebound machine - and his outlet passing is fantastic.

Another thing is when Shaq is on the court, all intimidation stops dead in its tracks. Seriously - you will not hear Dwight Howard, Ron Artest, Quintin Richardson, or anyone else for that matter coming down low and talking smack. He will give KG, Pierce so much freedom as he is going to deliver all the hard fouls, all the hard hits, and knock people around without even trying. Celtics just got 100% tougher.

-Big 3 didnt really play enough to make any judgements. KG never got in the flow on offense, but looked good defensively and rebounding. Pierce was not agressive but made a few nice shots. Ray looked a bit more "on" then the rest - his shot was as smooth as ever.

-Rondo looked great..his defense continues to improve and he is a magician with the ball.

-Big Baby looked very assertive and strong. He rebounded well, he scored, shot ft well...I liked every part of his game. Looking for him to have a very strong year.

-Nate played great D and distributed the ball well. I agree with Tommy that we will eventually need the old offensive Nate to show up from time to time, but I like the more complete Nate better. He is going to have a very good year as well.

-Semih looked great. Loved his attitude. Loved his energy. He has some nice moves and looks a lot stronger than he did in Summer League. He is a lock to make the team.

-Daniels looked a lot better than he did for most of last year. He played good D, drove the ball well - I think he will have a bounce back season.

-Delonte looked composed and steady. He was not agressive offensively, but I can live with that.....as it will come. Liked his maturity a lot - he will be a contributor this season.

-As for the rest, I cant say they did enough to show me much.

-Wafer looked lost
-West looked like a practice player
-Lasme looked good, but really, what is his position? He is too small to play 4 - he is too slow to play 3. I just dont see where he fits.
-Luke could make the team as the last man...but again what is his position?

I see the roster being

1 Shaq
2 KG
3 Pierce
4 Rondo
5 Ray
6 Davis
7 O'Neil
8 Robinson
9 Semih
10 D West
11 Luke
12 Avery Bradley
13 Daniels
14 Perk

[LACELTFAN]

Anytime Sam, anytime...
It's a wonderful time of year...I'm turning green again...
LACELT

[babyskyhook]

Bob,

One has to salute Doc for never getting so caught up in the moment that he fails to think ahead. Just another example of how he's the ideal coach for this team at this time.

That has to be one of the great nicknames: "Semih Automatic."

Ordinarily I'd be concerned about focus by seeing so much hilarity on the Boston bench. But this team seems amazingly secure in its mostly veteran mentality.

There's just one word of caution I'd have. Last season, I felt that, despite anyone's protestations to the contrary, the Celtics identified so closely with Sheed's personality that they had to work hard to get back on track late in the season. This team appears close to identifying with Shaq's persona without sharing Shaq's portfolio and track record.

It's very attractive to take note of this guy who achieves while sort of laughing his way through life. I expect Shrek and Donkey have already fallen under the spell, and it could easily happen to Semih without his even realizing it. Even Rondo and the football tossing at an early practice seemed a departure from his fierce concentration on the game. And, for Pete's sake, he was tossing the ball to Danny Ainge!

Don't get me wrong. I love having a team that's confident and loose...as long as it's all just one of many means to an end and doesn't become the end itself.

Sam

Sam-

you know that I think the Shaq signing was , on balance, a huge coup for the Cs. But the one real danger I felt was that he has been a chemistry-killer in the past.

As you are the King of Chemistry, I'm not surprised that you're noticing some of these things. I don't know what will happen. My feeling is the Cs strong culture and nose to the grindstone mentality of KG, Pierce and Ray Ray will ultimately win out. I also think Shaq is going to embrace the villain/ enforcer role vs other teams, which would be a good fit with the Cs battle-stations mentality.

But it's going to be fascinating to watch, as Shaq, Davis and Nate are all cut from the same cloth (comedians, characters), West and Wafer are total wildcards, and Rondo is still young, so Shaq could end up exerting a huge influence on this team, and things could go in a lot of different directions.

No matter what, it's going to be must-see tv.

[Sam]

BSH,

I expect things will go reasonably smoothly as long as Shaq can back up his antics with solid play. His defense against Lopez last night didn't represent solid play in my book. Maybe he was holding back in the preseason, and I do think he's doing a serviceable job in providing a different dimension on offense (the Mack Truck factor). But I thought he was really laboring in vain against Lopez on defense. Of course, Lopez is a gifted offensive player. I'll let it go at that because I don't want to give the impression that I'm anything but upbeat about this team.

Sam

[babyskyhook]

Sam-

the Mack Truck factor was why I liked the signing for the Cs so much.

Even though Shaq doesn't have much lift or athleticism left, and was never the fastest guy to begin with, the one thing he has that no one can really deal very well with is his sheer size. He knows hot to get deep position and use his strength and size to muscle shots up, most of which are high percentage.

That low post game will also keep other teams from being able to run very much, as the Cs (except Shaq) will be able to get back and set up their D very easily when he is taking shots down low. No long rebounds to ignite the break.

He'll also get a lot of opponents in foul trouble, getting the Cs to the line early and often via the bonus, where guys like Ray and Pierce will make a lot of hay.

His D has never been great, even when he was at his peak, but he is who he is.

On balance, the positives should substantially outweigh the negatives.

The chemistry issue is going to be interesting, but the upside was well worth the risk for the Cs.

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