Post Game Thread, vs Raptors - Home, 11/10/21

[bobheckler]

I'm back in California but missed the game due to jet lag.

Some boxscore observations:

Pascal Siakem had his 15 minutes of fame.  When was the last time he had an All-Star game?

Jayson Tatum is shooting 38.9% from the field, 32.9% from 3 but is averaging > 23ppg.  That hurts.  We are 5th in the league with 91.1 fgas/game.  Tatum is taking 22.2 of them.  That's 24% of the team's total fgas.  You cannot shoot that many, that poorly, and not result in 'L's.

The Time Lord with an Other Lorldly game.  8-11 for 16, 13 rebounds, 8 offensive, 2 steals and a block.

Mark Murphy @Murf56
yesterday
Rob Williams on what he saw tonight: "We need that toughness, man. That’s all I’m worried about right now, toughness. Mess ups are gonna happen, but I’d rather go out there with guys that are gonna go hard as hell any time we play, you feel me? So that’s what I’m looking for.”

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
Robert Williams on his career-high 8 offensive rebounds: "It was all aggressiveness."
MY NOTE:  That's all offensive rebounding usually is.  It's just you wanting the ball more than anybody else.


Jay King @ByJayKing
yesterday
Ime Udoka said he thought Robert Williams wasn’t going as hard as he could on the offensive glass early this season. Said they watched tape where he could improve on that and he has shown growth there.
MY NOTE:  Ime being hands-on.


Boston Celtics @celtics
yesterday
Josh Richardson: “Rob’s been doing a great job quarterbacking the defense, calling switches, calling coverages.”


Chris Forsberg
@ChrisForsberg_
Robert Williams up to 19 alley-oop finishes this year. As
@celticsvoice
noted during broadcast (h/t stats guru Dick Lipe), he’s got more alley-oop finishes than 25 teams. Here they are via
@Sportradar:





Schroder with 20 on an efficent 8-15, but 8 turnovers.  His season-to-date shooting numbers are slightly better than Tatum's, but not much better.




Richardson with what looks like a very good night on the stat sheet.  15 points on 5-9, 3 steals.




Smart with 6 assists and zero turnovers.  13 points on 5-12.  3 steals and a block.  This is the type of Smart boxscore we want.

Goran Dragic with a Coaches - DNP.  Never expected to see that...


https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401359984







Bob


.

[bobc33]

Welcome back BobH!

[cowens/oldschool]

Team has now won 3 of 4 to go from 2-5 to 5-6 and last 4 games without Jaylen. Team has found identity with swarming defense on perimeter and patient offense that can play thru cold stretches, I know I have ripped Udoka, but he’s gotten his team to buy in on defense and if not for a break here or there and a miracle shot by Luka; we could have went 4-0 since the Heat game. That we are doing it without Jaylen and Tatum still having some very off shooting games speaks volumes on young coach and teams toughness. RWill has really played well recently, outplayed Bam and played big last night against multiple scrappy 2 way bigs on Raptors, who always play hard.

Besides RWill, the Menace and JRich played really well both ends and Romeo with some big 3’s to build the lead, Al competed hard. It was the defense that set the tone and would rise every time Raptors started making a run. Team is battling and buying into new defensive system and it’s working….Tatum with some really nice passing, a few big shots sprinkled in and no tag team partner. Learning how to play winning ball, when his shot was off. Clean up some turnovers and get Jaylen back strong, this team will be really good. We can be very athletic on defense and are resilient suddenly.

[cowens/oldschool]

Oh sh!t, can we merge this ?

[gyso]

Welcome back BobH!

What he said.

[gyso]

In a recent game, they said Tatum lead the league in shots taken / lowest shooting percentage. They also said Brown leads the league in over 20 shots per game / least assists per shot made.

That is a very bad combination for long term success. Hopefully they get this straightened out. Smart was smart to point this out to them.

On the other end, we are trending very nicely with our mostly all game defensive effort. There will always be breakdowns in a play or two in any given game, but there was a sequence last night where we took it away from them two or three times in a row. That was nice to see.

[gyso]

Oh sh!t, can we merge this ?

Yes. Done.

[prakash]

One thing that I noted was that "play with pace looks to be on the way out." I will see how the next few games work out but against the Raptors, we were walking the ball up.

Still watching/hoping/wishing that Langford and Nesmith continue to make strides this season.

[dboss]

In the recent 3 out of 4 wins, the Celtics have only given up an average of 88 points per game.  Going into this season I felt that they could be a top defense team in the league.  At times they have struggled trying to execute Udoka's defensive schemes but little by little they are starting to look more seamless on the court.  

In Rob's interview after the game he mentioned he wanted to play with guys that play hard.  He also mentioned that last night the Celtics played 10 different defenses.  To the average fan their defense may look vanilla but it clearly is a lot more intricate.  It certainly looks like this team has bought into what coach Udoka is preaching because it is working.  I expect that our defense will continue to get better.

On offense we are still struggling shooting the 3 ball.  Jayson Tatum has started to turn the corner.  Over the past 5 games he has shot 43.6% from deep.  Horford 26.9% on 5.2 attempts and Dennis Schroder 28.6% on 4.2 attempts have not found their touch. (Past 5 games)  Marcus has reduced his 3PA over the past 5 games to 4.6 attempts per game and his percentage was 34.8%.  Not great but not bad either.  I think their defense is ahead of their offense.  Since the 3 pointer is a big part of their offense, improvement in that aspect of their game should give us a big offensive boost.

Robert Williams was the player of the game.  He led the team in rebounding as you know and had 8 of his 13 rebounds off the offensive glass.  That is huge.  The Raptors murdered us on the glass the last time.  Rob mentioned that coach told him he needed to position himself better and fight for rebounding position.   Robert has a high basketball IQ and he is also very coachable.  He has broken through the double digit scoring average.  He went 8-11 last night.  He shoots over 70% from the field so it is good to see his teammates getting him looks and it is great to see him fighting for rebounds and scoring on put backs.

[atcross]

I was pleased with the overall game last night but frustrated by guys, especially Smart and Tatum, still trying to force low odds passes and taking the ball into traffic against a team that is known for its aggression on D. How many times do you have to get stripped before you think maybe you need to pass or find a different route to the basket? It's not like they didn't know the Raptors. Yes, both guys do amazing things but amazing plays are not always the high percentage plays. There were some nice pass outs but we need more.

[dbrown4]

RWIII was a machine yet again.  I don't get why he doesn't at least touch the ball every time on offense and just shoot the crap out of it until the league catches up.  He would be crushing Wilt, Kareem, etc. if he touched the ball anywhere near those two.  He's certainly making up for the short-fall brick-clanking from JT until he figures things out.  

Menace and JR coming into their own nicely as well.  Horford still man-crushing. While we've dug ourselves into a little hole here 11 games in, which when you apply Newton's 3rd Law, this means we will still need to see something very significant in the opposite direction in order to get back in contention in the East race.  Please make no mistake or misunderstand.  I mean to the top of the East not just in the playoffs.  I need to see at this point just slight changes compared to last season, lest I cannot drop the current moniker both well-earned and deserved by the team of '2nd verse, same as the 1st.'  We're not out of the woods yet.  

Guess what?  A GOLDEN opportunity will be tomorrow.  What I am about to pass out about is, this game is on ESPN, as always against one of the best teams in the league, but for some strange reason they have us playing at HOME this time!!  WTH, Bo??!!  I must have read the schedule wrong!!  Well, let's hope we don't piss this opportunity away with some of the same ol', lame ol' excuses from our usual 2020-21 season list...lack of intensity, off-night for one of/both of our big guns, too many turnovers, injuries, crappy FT shooting, crazy, out of control MS, Mack Truck-size, down the center defensive lane openings for everyone not dressed in green, 2-26 from 3-point land, not guarding the 3pt line...Am I missing anything? I just remember distinctly form last year coming to games like this where we would be close, but no Auerbach cigar. So you can understand my skepticism and not jumping on the bandwagon just yet.  
 
I am going to put this game in the same category as the MIA game for total, all-out 4-quarters worth of effort, which surprisingly both games led to landslide victories against pretty good competition.  No, we're not going to rejoice and go apeshit like ESPN does when BKN trounces the hapless Magic, (sans or with you-know-who, which BTW, all this silence without his face on the news has to be flat-out KILLING him. I sure hope he is out helping the faceless/voiceless. Maybe he can't see or hear them.) we'll just add this game to the memory bank.  I'm keeping score.  Please feel free to correct me if I missed a game that deserves to go in this category and I'll be glad to add it upon review.  I just don't remember it.  I'd be willing to create a category of just slightly out of this top category to almost memorable games/victories but that it.    

That said, underneath that stellar category there are a bunch of now non-memorable, let's say 3-quarter effort games, where we were still in them until the end with a chance to win and we either won or lost those.  Lastly, in a category all by itself, the first TOR home game.

The good news is, we now know this team can play some really, really good, playoff worthy basketball.  What I like to call fun-to-watch basketball.  What I like to call so fun to watch basketball I don't regret my $200 entertainment investment in LP.  

But you know my conclusion before I write it.  2 really good games out of 11 does not a championship team make.  That makes you a mediocre 5-6 and looking in from the outside.  Those two games are the kind of efforts that will beat anyone in the East and whoever comes out of the West..HANDILY.

Let's build on tomorrow and begin to get Sir Isaac Newton out of the way first.  No math yet, but brush up on your calculus!  For starters, what is:

lim  (x-1)/x
x->oo        

Show your work!!

db

P.S. gyso, was it you or cowens/oldschool who thought there wasn't any math on this site?!! I still laugh at that!

[RosalieTCeltics]

Funny, I thought Marcus had a very good game, not offensively especially, but he was everywhere on the floor. Caused more turnovers, had more steals than he was credited for, and played hard anytime he was on the court. Jason is just pressing, trying to find his shot, and it is just not working. There were times, though, when I just wished Jaylen was on the floor. I did say a couple of times during the game last night that I am becoming more and more impressed with Josh Richardson and the energy he brings to the game. He has been very guarded in the shots he takes, not forcing shots that will not have a prayer of going i

Schroeder had an excellent offensive game, and was passing the ball well "at times" Last count I saw was 5 turnovers, could have been more. That needs to be addressed

They are finding their way, I feel. It has taken a while but they are buying into being a terrific defensive team. This was a good win

how long before we hear of Siakam being on the trade block, their rookie is a Keeper

[RosalieTCeltics]

By the way, welcome back BobH. You were missed on a regular basis and definitely on Game On.
Sometimes I felt like I was talking just to Gyso and BobC. I know cowens was lurking in the background, but you were missed. We need more chatter

[dboss]

[quote="atcross"]I was pleased with the overall game last night but frustrated by guys, especially Smart and Tatum, still trying to force low odds passes and taking the ball into traffic against a team that is known for its aggression on D. How many times do you have to get stripped before you think maybe you need to pass or find a different route to the basket? It's not like they didn't know the Raptors. Yes, both guys do amazing things but amazing plays are not always the high percentage plays. There were some nice pass outs but we need more.             [/quo

Atcross

Smart had zero TO's last night. tatum had 2 but also had 7 assists. I'll take a 7/2 turnover ratio all day.,

The big turnover guy was Schroder. He had 8 of our 15 turnovers. He could have put on a bakers hat and sold pastry on the corner.

Interesting to see how the team improves down the road a bit.

[atcross]

I was pleased with the overall game last night but frustrated by guys, especially Smart and Tatum, still trying to force low odds passes and taking the ball into traffic against a team that is known for its aggression on D. How many times do you have to get stripped before you think maybe you need to pass or find a different route to the basket? It's not like they didn't know the Raptors. Yes, both guys do amazing things but amazing plays are not always the high percentage plays. There were some nice pass outs but we need more.             [/quo

Atcross

Smart had zero TO's last night.  tatum had 2 but also had 7 assists.  I'll take a 7/2 turnover ratio all day.,

The big turnover guy was Schroder.  He had 8 of our 15 turnovers.  He could have put on a bakers hat and sold pastry on the corner.

Interesting to see how the team improves down the road a bit.

I'm not sure how they count turnovers but I saw Tatum and Smart both get stripped of the ball in traffic.

[RosalieTCeltics]

I thought Smart had a really good game last night, did not get credit for a couple of steals that he was responsible for. I know he forced a couple of shots, but I think it was with the clock winding down. He was extremely active defensively all night. So i really have no problems with his game.

[dboss]

I was pleased with the overall game last night but frustrated by guys, especially Smart and Tatum, still trying to force low odds passes and taking the ball into traffic against a team that is known for its aggression on D. How many times do you have to get stripped before you think maybe you need to pass or find a different route to the basket? It's not like they didn't know the Raptors. Yes, both guys do amazing things but amazing plays are not always the high percentage plays. There were some nice pass outs but we need more.             [/quo

Atcross

Smart had zero TO's last night.  tatum had 2 but also had 7 assists.  I'll take a 7/2 turnover ratio all day.,

The big turnover guy was Schroder.  He had 8 of our 15 turnovers.  He could have put on a bakers hat and sold pastry on the corner.

Interesting to see how the team improves down the road a bit.

I'm not sure how they count turnovers but I saw Tatum and Smart both get stripped of the ball in traffic.

I remember Tatum getting stripped however his assists more than made up for those errors. Overall both Smart and Tatum played well. IMO

[cowens/oldschool]

Tatum had a really good game doing a lot of good things, passing and defending, with his shot being off. Been waiting for him to figure out how to contribute on off shooting nights. I didn’t mention Smart in my previous comments, but his defense this whole year has been stellar, and JRich is a very heady impact defender and Romeo we know can defend as can the Menace. Our defense has been outstanding recently and can’t wait to see it with Jaylen, who we know is a stud defender.

Another key glimmer is how well the Timelord has been playing and helping out both ends. He is finding his niche as an offensive rebounder and a defensive anchor. Even if he’s not getting the blocked shot, he’s still in the right position so much more now. Tonight is gonna be a good test. Udoka is doing a great job with the defense and we have found our identity. All of the sudden we are very resilient. Shooting is streaky, it comes and goes, but defense is constant, it’s all effort and reaction. We have the athletes and the direction, everyone is covering for each other, and on top of their man or someone else is. Can’t wait to see Jaylen back….

[dbrown4]

Is JB cleared for tonight?!

db

[dboss]

Is JB cleared for tonight?!

db

No he is expected to miss 10-14 days total.

[Ktron]

Tatum had a really good game doing a lot of good things, passing and defending, with his shot being off. Been waiting for him to figure out how to contribute on off shooting nights. I didn’t mention Smart in my previous comments, but his defense this whole year has been stellar, and JRich is a very heady impact defender and Romeo we know can defend as can the Menace. Our defense has been outstanding recently and can’t wait to see it with Jaylen, who we know is a stud defender.

Another key glimmer is how well the Timelord has been playing and helping out both ends. He is finding his niche as an offensive rebounder and a defensive anchor. Even if he’s not getting the blocked shot, he’s still in the right position so much more now. Tonight is gonna be a good test. Udoka is doing a great job with the defense and we have found our identity. All of the sudden we are very resilient. Shooting is streaky, it comes and goes, but defense is constant, it’s all effort and reaction. We have the athletes and the direction, everyone is covering for each other, and on top of their man or someone else is. Can’t wait to see Jaylen back….

I heard Eddie Johnson say on the radio today that if Jayson doesn’t improve his shooting very soon, The C’s are going to go on a long losing streak. Yawn.

[cowens/oldschool]

Is is still early? A lot of players are struggling with their shot, Luka, Trae Young, Lillard. Tatum is rebounding and making an effort to pass more/better. He is tall and the defense has seen a lot of his iso moves. It seems like he could get his shot off easier before, is it me or when shorter players are crowding him he’s losing the ball more?

[tardust]

Is is still early? A lot of players are struggling with their shot, Luka, Trae Young, Lillard. Tatum is rebounding and making an effort to pass more/better. He is tall and the defense has seen a lot of his iso moves. It seems like he could get his shot off easier before, is it me or when shorter players are crowding him he’s losing the ball more?

I mentioned those players and others struggling with their shots in a post a few days ago. A lot of players don't like the new ball. I can't imagine that is the problem until I think about me with a golf ball. There are some balls I hate playing with because I don't play as well with them. Tatum didn't have time to work on his game as much this summers with the Olympics. He does too much dribbling that is ineffective. I wish someone would teach him about a jab step and a pump fake. Its amazing what those two things can do to get the defense reacting and making it easier for the offensive player to manipulate them. I don't see a lot of movement from anyone without the ball and that drives me crazy. I watch a lot of other teams as well as the C's and I sure wish we could get in that mode passing and moving.

[cowens/oldschool]

Is is still early? A lot of players are struggling with their shot, Luka, Trae Young, Lillard. Tatum is rebounding and making an effort to pass more/better. He is tall and the defense has seen a lot of his iso moves. It seems like he could get his shot off easier before, is it me or when shorter players are crowding him he’s losing the ball more?

I mentioned those players and others struggling with their shots in a post a few days ago. A lot of players don't like the new ball. I can't imagine that is the problem until I think about me with a golf ball. There are some balls I hate playing with because I don't play as well with them.  Tatum didn't have time to work on his game as much this summers with the Olympics.  He does too much dribbling that is ineffective.  I wish someone would teach him about a jab step and a pump fake.  Its amazing what those two things can do to get the defense reacting and making it easier for the offensive player to manipulate them.  I don't see a lot of movement from anyone without the ball and that drives me crazy.  I watch a lot of other teams as well as the C's and I sure wish we could get in that mode passing and moving.

The Spurs always moved the ball more and more precise than most teams, hopefully it’s coming, we have talent, we have to get J’s into an old soul mindset.

[bobheckler]

Tatum had a really good game doing a lot of good things, passing and defending, with his shot being off. Been waiting for him to figure out how to contribute on off shooting nights. I didn’t mention Smart in my previous comments, but his defense this whole year has been stellar, and JRich is a very heady impact defender and Romeo we know can defend as can the Menace. Our defense has been outstanding recently and can’t wait to see it with Jaylen, who we know is a stud defender.

Another key glimmer is how well the Timelord has been playing and helping out both ends. He is finding his niche as an offensive rebounder and a defensive anchor. Even if he’s not getting the blocked shot, he’s still in the right position so much more now. Tonight is gonna be a good test. Udoka is doing a great job with the defense and we have found our identity. All of the sudden we are very resilient. Shooting is streaky, it comes and goes, but defense is constant, it’s all effort and reaction. We have the athletes and the direction, everyone is covering for each other, and on top of their man or someone else is. Can’t wait to see Jaylen back….

I heard Eddie Johnson say on the radio today that if Jayson doesn’t improve his shooting very soon, The C’s are going to go on a long losing streak. Yawn.

ktron,

WTF is he talking about?! Jaylen's shooting 49.3% from the field, 39.7% from 3 and 78% from 3? He's the best shooter on the team!


Bob


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