Post Game Thread, PRESEASON GAME #2 vs Raptors - Home, 10/5/22

[bobheckler]

The final score doesn't matter, it's a preseason game, but I still hate losing.  I'm a bit of a foodie and don't like bad tastes in my mouth.

Our starters got us a 19 point lead against their starters.  That's what really matters.  The players who are likely to be getting the minutes crushed the Raptors.  Unfortunately it's an 82 game season and injuries happen which means that other players will be playing.

Tatum with another inefficient 6-16, 0-7 from 3.  He just cannot stop shooting 3s when he's off.  It's one thing to only have a short-term memory, shooters have to believe the next shot will go in, it's another to have zero conscience.  This is a Mamba Mentality thing and I don't like it.

Brown was a superstar, again.  Unstoppable.  He is ready physically and mentally for the season right now.




Smart with a very mediocre game.  He tried a cobra dive when VanVleet was walking the dog up court, and missed.  He is making cute, fancy passes that get oohs and ahhs but often are bad.  I hate it when he's not serious.

Pritchard with 17 points.  Ya gotta love this kid.  Nobody could throw the ball in the ocean from the edge of the pier and he just went to work.  7-14, 3-8 from 3 and 5 assists without any turnovers.  He is one feisty, competitive SOB and I love it.  Once again, his +/- was a -25 and that doesn't accurately portray his contributions, in my opinion.  No matter what he did the other players on the floor with him wasted it.

Sam the Show put on another one.  22 points on 8-12, 5-8 from 3.  A crowd favorite now, for sure.  I like that he is showing he can do more than just shoot catch-and-shoot 3s.  3-4 from 2 is quite good too.  He's moving without the ball.  He had 4 rebounds and 2 assists without any turnovers.  Pure gravy.  His defense is good enough to keep him on the floor too.  He's shooting north of 70% from 3 in these two games.  Let's remember that he was undrafted and was the first phone call after the draft was over by Brad, who convinced him to sign a two-way with Maine.  One of the things GMs are measured on is their drafting.  Well, if drafting Sam Howsah in the 2nd round would be perceived as a coup how would you describe picking him up off the scrap heap?  Certainly, with the loss of Gallo, it is looking more and more like Sam will be a rotation player during the regular season.  One reason why I don't like the +/- stat is because Sam's +/- last night was a -12, but that was because of the clown car Joe put on the floor with him in the 2nd half.  At halftime, when he played 5 minutes with starters and other rotation players, he was a +13.




Here's Joe's post-game presser.  He talks about Sam, he was asked specifically about him, but nobody asked him about the 2nd half implosion.




Which brings me to the clown car.  I have no idea, even after his post game presser, wtf Joe was thinking or looking for with the line up he put on the floor in the 2nd half.  I understand he didn't want to play the starters much more, they had an easy 2nd half, but the team he put on the floor was Grant, Sam, Pritchard, White and Brogdon.  Sam was, actually, the tallest at 6'8" and they got absolutely killed.  Grant was replaced by Fi after he rolled an ankle and Brogdon and Sam were replaced with Brodric Thomas and Justin Jackson for the 4th and OT.  The only ones who were scoring were Pritchard and Sam.  We scored 20 points in the 4th and only 9 in the 5 minute OT.  I know the final score doesn't matter, and I know Joe wants to see how the bubble players look, but putting players on the floor who have no freaking chance didn't show me anything.  I know that Luke is out and maybe Blake isn't ready but why didn't Joe give us some height with Vonleh?  Even Vonleh and Kabengele?  If he wanted to see the scrubs how about that 6'10" Samanic kid?  At 227# he's a toothpick but at least he's a tall toothpick.  Ime liked big lineups, Joe said he likes big lineups, but he went 180 degrees in the opposite direction in the 2nd half last night and just watched everything go south.

Based upon this game, in my opinion:

Thomas is gone.  He has 459 NBA minutes over 2 NBA seasons.  He should be better than we saw last night.  12 minutes of almost nothing.  JD Davison already looks better than him.
Justin Jackson was invited to camp because he had a lights out shooting game in SL.  That memory was wiped out by last night's 0-8, 0-5 from 3 in 12 minutes.  He shot us out of the game and only had 1 rebound in those 12 minutes.  He's gone.
Mfiondu (Fi, pronounced "fee") Kabengele (a hard 'g', I believe) looked like a bubble player.  A little late on defensive rotations.  He took a really ill-advised 3pt fgas in regulation that missed badly.  He looked like a Two-Way player last night.  Not bad, but not ready for prime time.  He needs a little more time in the pot to cook more.
Vonleh only played 3 minutes.  3 rebounds, 2 points on 1-1.  Hard to judge based upon 3 minutes.


https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401474860


Bob


.

[dboss]

Bobh

Seems like you are being a bit too critical about a (doesn't mean anything preseason game)

In preseason games there is an acceptable protocol that end of the bench guys will get a chance to play.

Tatum led the team with 10 rebounds.  His shooting was off (0-7 from deep) however I am not concerned about that at all.

The Celtics went into the 4th with an 18 point lead (90-72)  That lead was built in a dominant 2nd QTR  (35-24).  My take was that Boston outplayed the Raptors and had them on the ropes.  As everyone can see that Raptor team is loaded with a bunch of clone like guys that all do the same sort of things.  We are clearly the better team top to bottom.

Key contributors include JB who was our top offensive threat for the 2nd game in a row.  He is a flat out stud.

Brogdon settled the team down and displayed a complete mastery of running the offense.  I remember back when he hit FA with the Bucks, I posted that he was the guy the Celtics should have gone after instead of the diminutive Kemba Walker.  Malcolm is still in the getting to know you stage and yet he looks like a guy that has played with the team over an extended period of time.

Marcus played great defense and with Brogdon on board, we may see him defer more to him in running the offense.  Marcus with a couple more unnecessary passes.  Marcus stop trying to be cute. He did have 5 assists and 2 turnovers so no need to blow things out of proportion.

Sam was very efficient in game one and he has followed that up with a stellar game 2 outing.  In this game he even took it off the bounce and scored.  If you are trying to pencil in our key rotation players, Sam is kicking the door wide open.  When was the last time that we had a cold blooded sniper in the grassy knoll?  He should be integrated into the rotation in a way that allows him to play with some of our starters.

The other guy that played really well was Payton Pritchard.  He dropped 17 points with 5 assists, 4 rebounds and zero turnovers.  I was very impressed with his off the bounce drives and finishes at the rim.

Derrick White was also solid at both ends.

Grant had another "I can also do that moment"  when he got the ball on the right side on a fast break.  He went into a hesitation mode as if he was setting up to take a 3 pointer but instead he pulled the ball back and drove to the rim to score.  He is learning how to expand his offense by faking defenders out of position and then putting the ball on the floor for drives.

Vonleh and Kabengele were not impactful.  Vonleh only logged 3 minutes and most of Kabengele's court time was during the 4th QTR and 5 minute OT.

Thomas (Exhibit 10) and Jackson (Exhibit 9)  were the worst players on the court last night especially Jackson who somehow managed an 0-8 stat line.  He could not make wide open shots.  I just do not see how either of these players should make this team.  

Last observation, Blake Griffin seems to be enjoying himself interacting on the bench with his new teammates.

[bobheckler]

Bobh

Seems like you are being a bit too critical about a (doesn't mean anything preseason game)

In preseason games there is an acceptable protocol that end of the bench guys will get a chance to play.

Tatum led the team with 10 rebounds.  His shooting was off (0-7 from deep) however I am not concerned about that at all.

The Celtics went into the 4th with an 18 point lead (90-72)  That lead was built in a dominant 2nd QTR  (35-24).  My take was that Boston outplayed the Raptors and had them on the ropes.  As everyone can see that Raptor team is loaded with a bunch of clone like guys that all do the same sort of things.  We are clearly the better team top to bottom.

Key contributors include JB who was our top offensive threat for the 2nd game in a row.  He is a flat out stud.

Brogdon settled the team down and displayed a complete mastery of running the offense.  I remember back when he hit FA with the Bucks, I posted that he was the guy the Celtics should have gone after instead of the diminutive Kemba Walker.  Malcolm is still in the getting to know you stage and yet he looks like a guy that has played with the team over an extended period of time.

Marcus played great defense and with Brogdon on board, we may see him defer more to him in running the offense.  Marcus with a couple more unnecessary passes.  Marcus stop trying to be cute.  He did have 5 assists and 2 turnovers so no need to blow things out of proportion.

Sam was very efficient in game one and he has followed that up with a stellar game 2 outing.  In this game he even took it off the bounce and scored.  If you are trying to pencil in our key rotation players, Sam is kicking the door wide open.  When was the last time that we had a cold blooded sniper in the grassy knoll?  He should be integrated into the rotation in a way that allows him to play with some of our starters.

The other guy that played really well was Payton Pritchard.  He dropped 17 points with 5 assists, 4 rebounds and zero turnovers.  I was very impressed with his off the bounce drives and finishes at the rim.

Derrick White was also solid at both ends.

Grant had another "I can also do that moment"  when he got the ball on the right side on a fast break.  He went into a hesitation mode as if he was setting up to take a 3 pointer but instead he pulled the ball back and drove to the rim to score.  He is learning how to expand his offense by faking defenders out of position and then putting the ball on the floor for drives.

Vonleh and Kabengele were not impactful.  Vonleh only logged 3 minutes and most of Kabengele's court time was during the 4th QTR and 5 minute OT.

Thomas (Exhibit 10) and Jackson (Exhibit 9)  were the worst players on the court last night especially Jackson who somehow managed an 0-8 stat line.  He could not make wide open shots.  I just do not see how either of these players should make this team.  

Last observation, Blake Griffin seems to be enjoying himself interacting on the bench with his new teammates.

Dboss,

I forgot about that hesitation move by Grant.  I believe you and I were talking about this during the summer.  He needs to be able, and willing, to put the ball on the floor when defenders rush him off the arc because of his new reputation as a shooter.  That's what he did.  He did a hesitation move that made the defender commit to close out a shot and then he just blew past him.  Doesn't look or sound like much but it's actually a big additional awareness by Grant, and he has a high BBIQ.  If they're going to overreact to a 3pt fga and run you off the arc then you need to make them pay, and that's what happened.


Bob


.

[dboss]

Bobh

Grant has been working hard to improve.

He is starting to grow on me  like a day old beard

[bobheckler]

Bobh

Grant has been working hard to improve.

He is starting to grow on me  like a day old beard

Dboss,

Still in the scratchy stubble phase?


Bob

.

[dboss]

Bobh

Grant has been working hard to improve.

He is starting to grow on me  like a day old beard

Dboss,

Still in the scratchy stubble phase?


Bob

.

Exactly...lol

[dbrown4]

Think about the TOR game this way. Yes, our starters and bench beat TOR into submission in 1/2 a game of basketball. The rule(s) of preseason are starters play about half and are out and the bench, given the extra players get the 2nd half. Don't want any unnecessary injuries coming from the preseason. So you get a tale of two halves in the preseason. Understood. If we had played TOR full on, we would have won by 40 again.

I like throwing the bench to the wolves in this scenario. Two stars appear to be emerging. Pritchard and Doogie. It may help us, since this team I'm thinking of was the last one to hang a banner, to think of this year's player personnel in terms of the 2008 team. No reason to reinvent the wheel. If it ain't broke...Starting with the bench, I think we may have filled or possibly overfilled (again, we'll have to see) the Eddie House seat. If Peyton and Doogie can come in firing without needing time to get into the flow, we can cross the "Eddie" seat off the list.

But the 2008 bench just kept coming at you.

Leon Powe
PJ Brown
James Posey
Big Baby Davis
Sam Cassell

For the love of God! Every time I type out those names chills go up and down my spine. Any ideas on the current roster who is going to fill these shoes above? The funny thing is even with all that coming off the bench, it took Boston 26 out of a possible 28 playoff games to hang that banner in 2008. THAT team was pushed to the max. But they also went worst to first in a year. the extended playoff run may be indicative of that very short, monumental turnaround.

Let Joe eff with the lineups. He has a lot to go over before final cuts. But you can mark Peyton and Doogie as safe. Brodgen, obviously, is safe. White is safe. I like the fact that the bench blew that game and Joe wouldn't bail them out. Baptism by fire. You can't forge metal with the heat from a curling iron.

Two that are on the hot seat are Vonleh and Fi as far as playing time goes to fill that 10th spot. Gallinari was supposed to be in this mix, hence the competition door is back open.

Also, think about the Golden Year GSW teams. Their regular season games were over by the end of the 3rd quarter. Nothing better than to rest our starters for 1 quarter a night during the regular season. Maybe Coach Joe (CJ) wants our games to be over by halftime or maybe just 6 minutes into the 3rd. The first two games indicate that we have some serious fire power and yet still one of our starters hasn't even gotten out of 2nd gear yet plus one of our starters we won't see for a few months. Holy Crapola!

I am interested in what everyone thinks of the comps to the 2008 team bench, if there are any. I'm just saying it looks like early on, we don't have to worry about Eddie not coming through that door.

db

[dboss]

Think about the TOR game this way.  Yes, our starters and bench beat TOR into submission in 1/2 a game of basketball.  The rule(s) of preseason are starters play about half and are out and the bench, given the extra players get the 2nd half.  Don't want any unnecessary injuries coming from the preseason. So you get a tale of two halves in the preseason.  Understood.  If we had played TOR full on, we would have won by 40 again.

I like throwing the bench to the wolves in this scenario.  Two stars appear to be emerging.  Pritchard and Doogie.  It may help us, since this team I'm thinking of was the last one to hang a banner, to think of this year's player personnel in terms of the 2008 team.  No reason to reinvent the wheel.  If it ain't broke...Starting with the bench, I think we may have filled or possibly overfilled (again, we'll have to see) the Eddie House seat.  If Peyton and Doogie can come in firing without needing time to get into the flow, we can cross the "Eddie" seat off the list.

But the 2008 bench just kept coming at you.  

Leon Powe
PJ Brown
James Posey
Big Baby Davis
Sam Cassell

For the love of God!  Every time I type out those names chills go up and down my spine.  Any ideas on the current roster who is going to fill these shoes above?  The funny thing is even with all that coming off the bench, it took Boston 26 out of a possible 28 playoff games to hang that banner in 2008.  THAT team was pushed to the max.  But they also went worst to first in a year.  the extended playoff run may be indicative of that very short, monumental turnaround.      

Let Joe eff with the lineups.  He has a lot to go over before final cuts.  But you can mark Peyton and Doogie as safe.  Brodgen, obviously, is safe.  White is safe.  I like the fact that the bench blew that game and Joe wouldn't bail them out.  Baptism by fire.  You can't forge metal with the heat from a curling iron.  

Two that are on the hot seat are Vonleh and Fi as far as playing time goes to fill that 10th spot.  Gallinari was supposed to be in this mix, hence the competition door is back open.  

Also, think about the Golden Year GSW teams.  Their regular season games were over by the end of the 3rd quarter.  Nothing better than to rest our starters for 1 quarter a night during the regular season.  Maybe Coach Joe (CJ) wants our games to be over by halftime or maybe just 6 minutes into the 3rd.  The first two games indicate that we have some serious fire power and yet still one of our starters hasn't even gotten out of 2nd gear yet plus one of our starters we won't see for a few months.  Holy Crapola!

I am interested in what everyone thinks of the comps to the 2008 team bench, if there are any.  I'm just saying it looks like early on, we don't have to worry about Eddie not coming through that door.

db          

Not easy to compare but I would put PP as our Eddie House. Marcus /Tony Allen and Grant as our Posey or Powe. Blake/PJ Brown. Brogdon/Rondo. RW/KG. JB/PP. JT/RA. Our current team is deep deep at PG. I think our current team may be more talented. Keep in mind the 08 big 3 were in their Prime.

[sinus007]

Hi,
C'mon guys! Aren't you forgetting someone? White Mamba!


AK

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