A bullet dodged by Brad??

Looking at the reports from other teams yesterday, a glaring fact appeared on the NY Knicks report. Kemba Walker has been removed from the rotation until further notice. Guess Brad and the training staff hit this one right on the head. The rumors were that they were extremely worried about Kemba's knee and did not want to chance it, hence the trade that happened days after Brad took over. This is really tough for Kemba, but his better days are behind him there is no doubt about that. A good game here or there, but a starting guard?

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32746413/coach-tom-thibodeau-removes-struggling-kemba-walker-new-york-knicks-rotation

Confirmed!

That really does suck for Kemba. Super individual. He's got a great life now and ahead of him no matter where he winds up.

db

Gyso,

I like your moniker vs. mine. Mine takes too long to type out!!

db

Brad did "dodge a bullet".  Kemba had 3 more years on his contract (or was it 2?) for big bucks.  Think about how hard it would be for the Knicks to trade Kemba now, and he's only getting $8.7M this year and $9.2M next year.  Money aside, he's done.  Damn shame, great human being and teammate, but time waits for no man.

Not only did Brad dodge that bullet, he nailed the return fire.  He got Al Horford, who is playing like he's 5 years younger, and who's contract becomes much more flexible next year.  We can keep him for $26.5M, which is still MUCH cheaper than Kemba would have been, or we can release him for $14M (guaranteed money).  My money says, if Al keeps playing like this, Brad will resign him for another year and make it so that the total contract $ is better than releasing him for $14M, and have him try to find a new home, or paying him the $26.5M and then that's effectively the end of his career as his contract draw falls off the table.

When this happened last summer we were glad to be rid of Kemba (nothing personal, but his knees were like a pair of Ming vases) but dubious as to what Al had left in his tank at 35.  Clearly, Brad pulled a coup.  I don't know if I'd rank this trade up there with Joe Barry Carroll for Robert Parish and Kevin McHale but it has worked out very well for us indeed and it was Brad's first trade as our GM. Not bad, rook, not bad at all.


Bob


.

Ask me if I am at all surprised.

Brad did not completely dodge a bullet.  He still got grazed.

This is truly a sad time for this guy. No one ever complained about him as a teammate, in fact, alot of those guys felt really bad when he was traded. Now?? They are thankful Brad pulled this trigger. The funny thing is I do not think Kemba ever thought it was going to happen. He had built an $8 million dollar house here in Brookline, I believe. No one does that thinking they will not live out their contract. I truly feel as bad for him as I do IT. Little guards, once they reach a certain age, their bodies just do not hold up the way bigger guys do. Oh well....I wish someone would pay me to sit...what abut you?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I see no value in ignoring what the trends are telling us.

The Celtics saved some money when they traded KW but even so he makes $27 million this season. He does not look like a $27 million player to me. Next year he is only guaranteed $14.

I would caution fans to not get too hyped about his play this year as I expect that we will see a drop off as the wear and tear of this season moves along.

He averaged 10.6 rebounds per game in his first 6 games and he was #1 in block shots.  The reality is that he is not that good of a rebounder or shot blocker over a full season.

See the sample size for 14 Nov games.

His rebounding average is down to 7.7 and his blocks are just over 1 per game at 1.07.  His shooting is horrible (45% from the field which is bad for a center and 30.6% from deep.

I thought he would be able to stretch the floor for us but it looks like I was wrong about that.

As we all know Al is 35 years old.  He has been on the decline since he left Atlanta.  I expect to see him fall apart as the season progresses.  Our switch everything (mostly) defense is going to wear him down.  He has knee issues that are not going to go away.  The Celtics are using him like he is some young pup but he is not.  He should be playing way less minutes to help keep him fresh.

We always knew that Al was just adequate at 5. His pairing with RWill was starting to work well on the defensive end. Now, with RWill unavailable, Al is exposed.

I can see Al as a productive 20-25 mins guy. I have been really surprised by Freedom's play. With RWill available, we should be fine at 5.

Aside, Brad likely went crazy managing Danny's asset hoarding style and decided to hand Udoka a cleaner slate. Kemba is gone and RWill's minute restrictions are reduced. Team size improved. There is more veteran presence on the roster.

So far so good. The Celts are a WIP still. JRich, Langford and GWill have done well. Schroder has done well. Looking for the team to get healthier and find their game.

dboss wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I see no value in ignoring what the trends are telling us.

The Celtics saved some money when they traded KW but even so he makes $27 million this season. He does not look like a $27 million player to me.  Next year he is only guaranteed $14.  

I would caution fans to not get too hyped about his play this year as I expect that we will see a drop off as the wear and tear of this season moves along.

He averaged 10.6 rebounds per game in his first 6 games and he was #1 in block shots.  The reality is that he is not that good of a rebounder or shot blocker over a full season.

See the sample size for 14 Nov games.

His rebounding average is down to 7.7 and his blocks are just over 1 per game at 1.07.  His shooting is horrible (45% from the field which is bad for a center and 30.6% from deep.

I thought he would be able to stretch the floor for us but it looks like I was wrong about that.

As we all know Al is 35 years old.  He has been on the decline since he left Atlanta.  I expect to see him fall apart as the season progresses.  Our switch everything (mostly) defense is going to wear him down.  He has knee issues that are not going to go away.  The Celtics are using him like he is some young pup but he is not.  He should be playing way less minutes to help keep him fresh.

I know, right? Brad was able to make this trade and unload Kemba’s contract but as you say, he got grazed in the process.
I’ll give Brad the credit he deserves but I’d hardly call it a coup.
I do feel bad for Kemba, he was and still is a good guy. I.T. Was/is too. Danny “charge it to my head and not to my heart” Ainge thought he had pulled off a coup too. How’d that work out?
Again, I will credit Brad for this deal. Not a bad start but is no where close to Red’s McHale, Parrish, and Joe Barely cares deal.

dboss wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I see no value in ignoring what the trends are telling us.

The Celtics saved some money when they traded KW but even so he makes $27 million this season. He does not look like a $27 million player to me.  Next year he is only guaranteed $14.  

I would caution fans to not get too hyped about his play this year as I expect that we will see a drop off as the wear and tear of this season moves along.

He averaged 10.6 rebounds per game in his first 6 games and he was #1 in block shots.  The reality is that he is not that good of a rebounder or shot blocker over a full season.

See the sample size for 14 Nov games.

His rebounding average is down to 7.7 and his blocks are just over 1 per game at 1.07.  His shooting is horrible (45% from the field which is bad for a center and 30.6% from deep.

I thought he would be able to stretch the floor for us but it looks like I was wrong about that.

As we all know Al is 35 years old.  He has been on the decline since he left Atlanta.  I expect to see him fall apart as the season progresses.  Our switch everything (mostly) defense is going to wear him down.  He has knee issues that are not going to go away.  The Celtics are using him like he is some young pup but he is not.  He should be playing way less minutes to help keep him fresh.

Also, OKC obviously didn't do the trade for the sake of getting Kemba, they did it for our first round pick. That pick was number 16. The Thunder picked Alperen Sengun with the pick, but immediately traded him to the Rockets for two future firsts (It is not yet known where in the first round thosepicks will be). Hence, before we crown any winners, we need to see how Sengun or the two picks from the Rockets pan out. Sengun is a center from Turkey. He played quite well in some Turkish league, and is playing decently so far as a rookie for the rockets (8.5 pts, ~5 rebounds, shooting 40% from three). He is 18, and fairly skilled, with good foot work and accompanying strong inside game, he is a good passer, decent defender but probably defense is weaker than offense - Hollinger was high on him, ranking him 4th in the 2021 draft class.

Shamrock1000 wrote:

dboss wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I see no value in ignoring what the trends are telling us.

The Celtics saved some money when they traded KW but even so he makes $27 million this season. He does not look like a $27 million player to me.  Next year he is only guaranteed $14.  

I would caution fans to not get too hyped about his play this year as I expect that we will see a drop off as the wear and tear of this season moves along.

He averaged 10.6 rebounds per game in his first 6 games and he was #1 in block shots.  The reality is that he is not that good of a rebounder or shot blocker over a full season.

See the sample size for 14 Nov games.

His rebounding average is down to 7.7 and his blocks are just over 1 per game at 1.07.  His shooting is horrible (45% from the field which is bad for a center and 30.6% from deep.

I thought he would be able to stretch the floor for us but it looks like I was wrong about that.

As we all know Al is 35 years old.  He has been on the decline since he left Atlanta.  I expect to see him fall apart as the season progresses.  Our switch everything (mostly) defense is going to wear him down.  He has knee issues that are not going to go away.  The Celtics are using him like he is some young pup but he is not.  He should be playing way less minutes to help keep him fresh.

Also, OKC obviously didn't do the trade for the sake of getting Kemba, they did it for our first round pick. That pick was number 16. The Thunder picked Alperen Sengun with the pick, but immediately traded him to the Rockets for two future firsts (It is not yet known where in the first round thosepicks will be). Hence, before we crown any winners, we need to see how Sengun or the two picks from the Rockets pan out. Sengun is a center from Turkey. He played quite well in some Turkish league, and is playing decently so far as a rookie for the rockets (8.5 pts, ~5 rebounds, shooting 40% from three). He is 18, and fairly skilled, with good foot work and accompanying strong inside game, he is a good passer, decent defender but probably defense is weaker than offense - Hollinger was high on him, ranking  him 4th in the 2021 draft class.

Rock

When it became obvious that the Celtics had to move KW I figure it would cost us a first rounder and we would have to take back some salary. We took back $41 million for Al. The owners saved some money.

Brad at least addressed the issue as best that he could. When you sign a max contract guy that cannot stay healthy you are screwed for several years. Danny Ainge dropped the ball on this one and the repercussions will be with us for probably another year after this one. Boston has very limited flexibility to sign a quality free agent. The tools in the box are limited to using TPE's and/or using draft picks and players to improve the roster.

All of these things along with the quality of players that are associated with the 16th pick must be accounted for to fully appreciate, not so much what Brad had to do, but these results fall squarely on the shoulders of Danny Ainge.

dboss wrote:

Shamrock1000 wrote:

dboss wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I see no value in ignoring what the trends are telling us.

The Celtics saved some money when they traded KW but even so he makes $27 million this season. He does not look like a $27 million player to me.  Next year he is only guaranteed $14.  

I would caution fans to not get too hyped about his play this year as I expect that we will see a drop off as the wear and tear of this season moves along.

He averaged 10.6 rebounds per game in his first 6 games and he was #1 in block shots.  The reality is that he is not that good of a rebounder or shot blocker over a full season.

See the sample size for 14 Nov games.

His rebounding average is down to 7.7 and his blocks are just over 1 per game at 1.07.  His shooting is horrible (45% from the field which is bad for a center and 30.6% from deep.

I thought he would be able to stretch the floor for us but it looks like I was wrong about that.

As we all know Al is 35 years old.  He has been on the decline since he left Atlanta.  I expect to see him fall apart as the season progresses.  Our switch everything (mostly) defense is going to wear him down.  He has knee issues that are not going to go away.  The Celtics are using him like he is some young pup but he is not.  He should be playing way less minutes to help keep him fresh.

Also, OKC obviously didn't do the trade for the sake of getting Kemba, they did it for our first round pick. That pick was number 16. The Thunder picked Alperen Sengun with the pick, but immediately traded him to the Rockets for two future firsts (It is not yet known where in the first round thosepicks will be). Hence, before we crown any winners, we need to see how Sengun or the two picks from the Rockets pan out. Sengun is a center from Turkey. He played quite well in some Turkish league, and is playing decently so far as a rookie for the rockets (8.5 pts, ~5 rebounds, shooting 40% from three). He is 18, and fairly skilled, with good foot work and accompanying strong inside game, he is a good passer, decent defender but probably defense is weaker than offense - Hollinger was high on him, ranking  him 4th in the 2021 draft class.

Rock

When it became obvious that the Celtics had to move KW I figure it would cost us a first rounder and we would have to take back some salary.  We took back $41 million for Al.  The owners saved some money.

Brad at least addressed the issue as best that he could.  When you sign a max contract guy that cannot stay healthy you are screwed for several years.  Danny Ainge dropped the ball on this one and the repercussions will be with us for probably another year after this one.  Boston has very limited flexibility to sign a quality free agent.  The tools in the box are limited to using TPE's and/or using draft picks and players to improve the roster.

All of these things along with the quality of players that are associated with the 16th pick must be accounted for to fully appreciate, not so much what Brad had to do,  but these results fall squarely on the shoulders of Danny Ainge.  

I agree Dboss - just reminding people that it wasn't a straight forward swap of Kemba for Al. OKC had no interest in Kemba, they were willing to take him on to get a 1st, which they have since turned into 2 firsts. Hence, to say we won because Al is better than Kemba is premature until we know what we gave up with that pick. As you say, the pick was the cost of getting out of Kemba's contract. I don't blame Danny (or Brad). Nobody hits on every transaction, and overall I believe Danny did a good job.

As soon as I saw this, I looked to see how Terry Rozier is doing - 18+ points, 3.3 assists - and saw the team already took a bullet - spending a boatload to try to mask the way Irving hoodwinked DA. I’d take Al over Kemba, but they’re both over-priced antiques (and good guys!). Hawk

Certainly have to feel bad for Kemba. It looked like we had a point guard on what we hoped was the start of a championship roster. Until the knee started to act up, he was just the right fit. Sad to see that it's gotten to the point the Knicks are trying to figure out how to lose him altogether. Sure he's going to be fine financially, but it's a shame to see a relatively young guy not get to do what he loves to do. Especially in the case of someone who seems to be a real class act.

I believe Brad made one of the few deals available, but at least he made a little progress. I think what we have been getting out of Horford is beyond most expectations. His continued productivity looks like it's highly dependent on being paired with another big, mainly RWIII. One more reason why I believe successfully advancing to the playoffs this season revolves around RWIII. If he can stay on the floor, we can utilize what Horford has left. I think Horford alone, with no RWIII, and a bunch of guards and wings, is just going to wear Al down to nothing at a fast pace.

Ultimately Brad made the best move he could for his team. It will take a lot of time to tell but OKC may have gotten the best deal of all parties involved.

I think Hawk has a good take on this as well. Although it goes beyond Brad's doing, as a team you have to go back to Rozier to look at the longer chain of events when weighing the value of acquiring, and moving on from Kemba.

The bullet I refer to is really the one they would have taken if they kept Kemba, being without a serviceable guard who can load up and score at times would have been devastating to this team Maybe we are not going to be able to keep Schroeder, but, in the meantime, he is out there working his tail off. As far as Horford is concerned, I do not feel he is an antique. He has helped this team at time more than we give him credit for.

Comparing Kemba to IT is fine except for one thing, Kemba is still cashing checks where IT cannot find a team to sign him on. The loss of ability, yes, that is where the comparison comes and two really, really great guys who gave what they could to the Celtics while here

RosalieTCeltics wrote:
Comparing Kemba to IT is fine except for one thing, Kemba is still cashing checks where IT cannot find a team to sign him on.  The loss of ability, yes, that is where the comparison comes and two really, really great guys who gave what they could to the Celtics while here

Interesting point Rosalie. Two guys who potentially could have contributed several good seasons to the Celtics but were cut down by injuries. I suppose we could add Hayward to that list too. Any of those three could have been difference makers. All three have the type of personal character Celtics fans look for as well. Someone has really been sticking needles in their Celtic voodoo doll the past several seasons.

NYCelt wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:
Comparing Kemba to IT is fine except for one thing, Kemba is still cashing checks where IT cannot find a team to sign him on.  The loss of ability, yes, that is where the comparison comes and two really, really great guys who gave what they could to the Celtics while here

Interesting point Rosalie. Two guys who potentially could have contributed several good seasons to the Celtics but were cut down by injuries. I suppose we could add Hayward to that list too. Any of those three could have been difference makers. All three have the type of personal character Celtics fans look for as well. Someone has really been sticking needles in their Celtic voodoo doll the past several seasons.

Yeah what a shame, the one year GH and Kemba played together we sure looked like contenders; the 3 wing offense purred and Kemba could get his shot off anytime it seemed and was unselfish, then it slowly but surely all fell apart.

NYCelt,

For the Voodoo dolls, it has to be the Lakers!!

db

dbrown4 wrote:NYCelt,

For the Voodoo dolls, it has to be the Lakers!!  

db

Hmmm...

Probably!