How about it, Brad?

by **Sam** Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:28 pm

Is anyone else getting as tired as I am about Brad Stevens' post-game remarks that constantly emphasize what a lousy job he's doing? Tonight: "It's on me. I have to find a way to make them play better." Similar "It's on me" statements after previous game. Okay, Brad. We get it. The Mia culpa Mambo. But we're not stupid, Brad. We know that self-flagellation can be a ruse that camouflages real problems and/or preempts the obvious criticism to prevent others from griping about it.

One reason I couldn't stand Antoine Walker was that, after Celtics losses, he frequently insisted on delivery a lecture on what they had done wrong. And it was usually the same lecture, loss after loss. I kept screaming at the poor tv set, "If you know what's wrong, why don't you freaking correct it?" Strangely, he elected never to respond to me either verbally or through a change in his play. Are we doomed to a similar recurrence of mediocre play accompanied by statements primarily designed to deflect criticism because Brad has already issued the criticism?

I'm not knocking Brad's coaching. Apparently he'd have us believe he's a worst coach than I think he is. But, for Pete's sake, Brad. The team's giving you obvious clues. Do you note all these comebacks? What are the commonalities accompanying the comebacks? You know a whole lot more about basketball than I do, but I know energy or lack of energy when I spot them. I also know, even if only as a father, that reward systems usually work better than a succession of penalties for poor performance. Why not accentuate the positive by rewarding more productive combinations (if not more productive individual players) with more playing time?

I understand that there are many factors that go into deciding on the on-floor combinations. Matchups are very important; chemistry is very important, just to name a couple. But how about energy and productivity? What weight do they carry in your system? Should they be lower-ranked priorities just because they don't lend themselves neatly to metric analysis?

Maybe I'm just frustrated and I'll regret posting this thread for a long time. Or maybe I have a point of two. Who knows? But I'm not afraid to take what, for a moderator, is a rather bold move in posting this. How about you?

Sam

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:26 am

Sam what do you want him to say? that were the softest defensive team in the league in the paint, so soft that we have a 7 footer covering 4's while putting two 6'8" guys out to battle the 5's to protect that soft 7 footer? That we really have no rim protectors and only one decent rebounder, Sully and that the team really hasn't been the same since we lost Perk, then traded KG and Pierce, and that the team really has even less leadership without Rondo on the floor. So I'm hoping we can rebuild the team, but its a painful process and oh yeah Danny is an idiot for weakening this team to such an extent when we still had alot of fight left 4 years ago and you fans and the players on that team deserved for that team to be kept together to compete at the highest level while it was still possible and you know were on track to have a great team by the time my contract is up in 4 more years because you know the draft is a sure thing as is Dannys drafting ability, so don't worry were on our way.

by **Sam** Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:36 am

Actually, Cow, if I really expected to hear from him, I would hope that he might contribute something more than distress about ancient history. Maybe some fans can gnash their teeth to absurdity about the distant past, but it's the coach's job to deal with what he's got as best he can. As in NOW! 2015!

I had thought my post suggested that I was interested in Brad's take on playing time for the young guys. That's YOUNG, as in NOW. 2015! If I wasn't clear enough about that, I'm sorry.

Sam

by **Berlin-T** Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:48 am

I too am having some concern about Brad's incessant substitutions. It's hard for player to develop a rhythm when they're constantly being yanked about. At least last night he broke the pattern somewhat by leaving Young in for the most part from the end of the 3rd to the end of the game.

by **Berlin-T** Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:36 am

Just saw Steven's after-game presser.

"I was just throwing darts"!

Isn't that just the same as saying, "I didn't know what to do?"
Isn't it the job of an NBA coach to know what to do?

by **wide clyde** Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:40 am

I believe that Stevens is a much better NBA coach than he was last year. His players from last year are all improved, his offensive system better fits his personnel, etc, but he still has some things to do.

His rotation has been too long all year which may be causing some players from not being able to get their rhythm as Berlin-T mentioned. I can understand the long rotation in a rebuilding situation, but it may be time to shorten it up some. With Young showing so well last night the rotation may have even gotten longer. If the long rotation is the team's (Stevens and Ainge) strategy, I hope that it changes once the trading deadline passes as there will have been plenty of time to determine who is part of the future solution by that time.

This team has not had a player/leader all year. Rondo should have been this guy, but wasn't. Smart may become this guy, but he is still a 20 year old rookie. Sullenger makes comments to the press that may indicate that he could be this guy, but so far has not become him. Wallace has the toughness for this spot, but just does not play enough. With such an important role to be filled, Stevens may need to nominate/discuss this role with one of his players. The deep and equal roster may be part of this problem as most of these guys may not see themselves as being able to take the leadership role.

My biggest concern with this year's team is now headed by its terrible defense. The roster is different, but not so much that the defense should be this much weaker. Charlotte without Jefferson should not have been able to score seemingly at will.

by **kdp59** Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:30 am

teams come back when down big in the NBA, mostly because the leading team relaxes a bit over all.

we are NOT a good NBA team.

Zeller is an NBA back up center only.

Kelly is PF who will always have to be hidden on defense

Sully is a below the rim PF who is a 14 and 8 guy at best

Bass is a savvy vet, who is best as a back up PF in the NBA

Wright is an undersized leaper who will be a marginal NBA player only.

Green is back to being what he is, a third wheel best suited for coming off the bench.

Wallace is done.

Crowder works hard, but has a limited skill level as a SF.

Bradley is a horribly streaky shooter who would best coming off the bench , so when he's off he can go back there and sit.

Thornton is old and tired and probably is HOPING that he gets traded soon.

Young is a scorer who is only 19 still.

Nelson is an aging player who at best was average as an NBA PG.

Turner is a streaky shooter, has dubious ball handling skills and is mostly a defensive liability.

Smart is a hard worker, who may become an elute NBA defender, but may never be much more than an adequate ball handler or scorer.

Pressey is another hard worker, but he still can't shoot and he's only about 5-8.

this analysis is subject to change NEXT game!!!
Cool

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:12 am

sam wrote:Actually, Cow, if I really expected to hear from him, I would hope that he might contribute something more than distress about ancient history. Maybe some fans can gnash their teeth to absurdity about the distant past, but it's the coach's job to deal with what he's got as best he can. As in NOW! 2015!

I had thought my post suggested that I was interested in Brad's take on playing time for the young guys. That's YOUNG, as in NOW. 2015! If I wasn't clear enough about that, I'm sorry.

Sam

so you missed the part where I mentioned how soft we are, we know KO is a pathetic defender at best, see Z's rebounding stats last 2 games? like that take on our bigs?

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:15 am

kdp59 wrote:teams come back when down big in the NBA, mostly because the leading team relaxes a bit over all.

we are NOT a good NBA team.

Zeller is an NBA back up center only.

Kelly is PF who will always have to be hidden on defense

Sully is a below the rim PF who is a 14 and 8 guy at best

Bass is a savvy vet, who is best as a back up PF in the NBA

Wright is an undersized leaper who will be a marginal NBA player only.

Green is back to being what he is, a third wheel best suited for coming off the bench.

Wallace is done.

Crowder works hard, but has a limited skill level as a SF.

Bradley is a horribly streaky shooter who would best coming off the bench , so when he's off he can go back there and sit.

Thornton is old and tired and probably is HOPING that he gets traded soon.

Young is a scorer who is only 19 still.

Nelson is an aging player who at best was average as an NBA PG.

Turner is a streaky shooter, has dubious ball handling skills and is mostly a defensive liability.

Smart is a hard worker, who may become an elute NBA defender, but may never be much more than an adequate ball handler or scorer.

Pressey is another hard worker, but he still can't shoot and he's only about 5-8.

this analysis is subject to change NEXT game!!!

very accurate kdp, Sam I think we suck....

by **international** Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:38 am

Sam.
I agree with you 100%,i think Stevens is too nice to be a NBA coach.He doesn't argue with the referees and in this league you have to screem and make noise to get notice by the referees.I also believe his staff of assistance are horrible,there is not a specialist in defence (where are you Ron Adams) and I don't like the staff.But I think we have to blame Danny Ainge for this mess, I am tired of watching opposing bigs kill us in the boards and small guards penetrating easily to the basket and when I see players like Jusuf Nursic 6-11 280 pounds,Rudy Gobbert 7-2 and Gorgui Dieng 6-11 playing the way they are ,I have to be mad with Mr Ainge.He had the opportunity to draft them and he passed and now he say ...centers are hard to find.I think is time to get rid of Danny Ainge and I hope that we don't go the tanking route again,because I will have to stop watching Celtics games.

by **dboss** Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:49 am

Celtics fans need to be prepared for more of the same and maybe even worse basketball out of this team.

kdp59, that was a very harsh evaluation and perhaps a little over the top do you think?
Each of the players that you mentioned has talent. There is something that they can do very well. It is up to the coaching staff to provide clarity to what they are trying to accomplish.

Stevens is telling it like it is. He does not know what to do and why should he? How could he know?

There is plenty of blame to go around but most of the blame must be placed on Danny Ainge. He is the one that ran this ship aground. This ship wreck is his doing. There is no sense in allocating any emotional energy to this team right know. Hoping and praying for something better anytime soon is like hoping for the Titanic to stop taking on water. Not me, I am running for the nearest lifeboat and I am paddling away from this catastrophe with all due haste.

I'll take a glance at the casualty reports from time to time but I'll be watching the Atlanta Hawks balling. That is a team with not one allstar player but a GREAT coach.

dboss (is signing off for an extended period of time)

by **worcester** Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:37 pm

What was Danny to do? Get Kevin Love beside Rajon? He tried. It didn't work out. And how's that working out for the Cavs? Yes this team sucks, but so did the 1966 Red Sox and the 2006-7 Celtics.

KD - a pretty accurate analysis overall, although I do think KO could remain a valuable player on this team if we had an Intimidator alongside him, someone to mask his defensive deficiencies. International has a valid point that Danny overlooked several good center prospects, but he did show mucho savvy picking up perhaps the best BACKUP NBA center in Zeller.

Smart was a smart move.

Young will prove to be the Paul Pierce type draft move of this decade.

Rondo is and will be a great player for years to come, but I doubt he would have stayed here, given how this season's been going. We're well served with the picks Danny's amassed. Let's see how he uses them before manning the lifeboats.

by **kdp59** Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:13 pm

Dboss,

here's one that might be more to your liking from a few weeks back.

https://samcelt.forumotion.net/t8201-my-current-roster-assessment

I think I may have been in a Christmas spirit when I wrote that however.....LOL.

and I did say subject to change next game in this thread though!

by **dboss** Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:46 pm

Worcester, kdp59

Sorry but I can only hear some faint screaming....Danny, danny, danny....

dboss

by **gyso** Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:36 pm

What we have here is a team full of rotation-quality players. Well, almost full. It could be argued that Wallace, Nelson and Pressey would not make the rotation on an average to bad team. It could also be argued the other way. Pressey was on the floor during some of the comeback in the fourth quarter last night. Nelson was part of the rotation for Dallas before the trade, but maybe replacing him was due to the fact that his play has dropped off too far. Wallace brings a defensive presence that many teams could use once in a while.

Brad has been playing ten or so players each game as of late. Now he has to add Young to the mix. Thornton is injured, but will be back before you know it. Bass hasn't gotten enough time for some people. The same could be said of Wright. It is quite a juggling challenge that Brad has, trying to make playing time 10-12 (or more) rotation-quality players. So why worry about wins and losses at this time, or for that matter, cutting the rotation down to 8 or 9 players?

Danny Ainge has given Brad Stevens an almost impossible task; to find enough playing time for everyone, to find combinations of players that work from game to game, to see what his young players are capable of, to keep his veterans relevant, etc. Danny Ainge has also accumulated a roster full of players that many teams will covet as the trade deadline approaches. He pulled the Rondo trade with that deadline in mind, every single player can be traded, mix and match, as is needed to improve the team going forward.

We have expiring veterans, intriguing youngsters, 1st and 2nd round picks, traded player exceptions, plenty to go around for the trade deadline as well as for this summer. If DA can pare down the roster to perhaps 13 players at the deadline, he can add a DL player or two with multi-year unguaranteed contracts that can be added to trades this summer. I don't care if we make the playoffs this year. What difference does that make? Playoff experience for our youngins? Who on this roster will still be around when we become a contending team?

This is only year two of the rebuild and I will treat it as such. I will always root for them to win and I will be sad if they lose. But I will be realistic about their chances to contend anytime in the near future.

gyso

by **Sam** Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:21 pm

Cow, I really don't know how to answer your follow-up. What do soft bigs have to do with my theme of whether to play the young guys more? To answer your query, I don't miss much, and what I saw was an opportunistic attempt to resuscitate out-of-date ancient history while ignoring the topic of the thread entirely.

If you want to continue this conversation, how about doing it off the board? Private message, not my private email, would be an appropriate vehicle.

Sam

by **international** Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:52 pm

Gyso.
Excuse me,but in my opinion you don't rebuild with a payroll of over 70 millions and paying players like Gerald Wallace over 10 millions and Marcus Thorton 8 millions and a half.You cant rebuild either if you don't play your young players.If Danny was going to rebuild he had to clean the payroll first like Phoenix did .So if Danny thinks that every time he wants to be a title contender we have to be 5 years loosing with everybody,he is wrong.This is a franchise of tradition and with a lot of fans who are used to win.I don't understand why he traded Pierce and Garnett and let Ray Allen go if he was going to have a big payroll anyway.I know he was after draft picks ,but nobody cant guaranty that a player taken in the first round if going to be a good players.Sometimes is better to have space in the payroll and in the roster inorder to get players like Robin Lopes and Chris Kaman.

by **NYCelt** Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:12 pm

gyso wrote:
This is only year two of the rebuild and I will treat it as such. I will always root for them to win and I will be sad if they lose. But I will be realistic about their chances to contend anytime in the near future.

gyso

gyso,

I would say that's very a fair statement, and covers the coach and players equally. The proper perspective IMHO.

kdp,

I took that as a brilliant note of humor. Can't wait to see the evaluation after a win.

dboss,

Hope the 'signing off for a while' footnote was just kidding as well. Your posts are consistently among the most insightful here.

...I think the Stevens remarks are the comments made by a coach who is smart enough to know that, ultimately, he takes the blame in any loss; it's the nature of the beast. I think it's also a display of wisdom to keep the focus and the heat away from a team populated almost entirely by polar opposites; young, developing players and veterans who have seen better days. This is a team of temporary placeholders, maybe two or three will be here when we again become airborne. Why subject them to the bloodthirsty media inquisition? Especially those that need time to develop and who may stick around. I would very much like to see Brad do some things differently, but I'm not sure that isn't true of any coach on any team I've ever watched. Even when we were winning it in '86 and '08, for example, I was yelling at the tube telling KC and Doc they had the wrong rotations.

On my list of Coach Stevens complaints?

Start Smart; I don't care if it's at point or two, just do it

Play Young; why does any rebuilding team not play a first round pick?

And, especially..

Modify that motion offense; it's often looking like a 5-out; what are we, a youth league? How about we try Smart, Turner, Bradley and Green in a rotation with Zeller, Sully and Wright in a 3-out, 2-in? Somebody here has got to be able to post, and we can cut back on the visit to 3-point land long enough to see what happens.

There, now I've made Stevens even up with other Celtics coaches and told him what he should do.

For now, however, I think he may be as much a work in progress as his rag-tag team. As gyso points out, this is going to take time. I think we have to be realistic and note that even Saint Red would probably have the look of a tanking coach with this bunch. Rebuilding ain't pretty. I think Brad is simply doing the right thing in putting it on his shoulders. My guess is he's just biding his time, looking at what we have, and waiting for some changes to bring some players his way. If he doesn't give a fair game-time look at what we have, or make changes in play with further changes in personnel, then we may want to close the doors on the bus before he gets on. Not yet, however.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:43 pm

dboss wrote:Celtics fans need to be prepared for more of the same and maybe even worse basketball out of this team.

kdp59, that was a very harsh evaluation and perhaps a little over the top do you think?
Each of the players that you mentioned has talent. There is something that they can do very well. It is up to the coaching staff to provide clarity to what they are trying to accomplish.

Stevens is telling it like it is. He does not know what to do and why should he? How could he know?

There is plenty of blame to go around but most of the blame must be placed on Danny Ainge. He is the one that ran this ship aground. This ship wreck is his doing. There is no sense in allocating any emotional energy to this team right know. Hoping and praying for something better anytime soon is like hoping for the Titanic to stop taking on water. Not me, I am running for the nearest lifeboat and I am paddling away from this catastrophe with all due haste.

I'll take a glance at the casualty reports from time to time but I'll be watching the Atlanta Hawks balling. That is a team with not one allstar player but a GREAT coach.

dboss (is signing off for an extended period of time)

Ainge is an idiot, I'd take the troubled Josh Smith in a second over the wasted draft pick that we have to figure out how to get rid of Kelly O, he couldn't defend in the WNBA, he put together a team soft as marshmallow inside, poor Sully has to continue to battle all by himself with no help in the paint....nice job Danny, I hope we keep losing, hire someone to evaluate and find a real bonafide center since your so incompetent at it.

by **gyso** Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:46 pm

International,

Taking on the contracts of Wallace and Humphries was the cost of acquiring multiple first round picks. Letting Pierce and KG ride of into the sunset was not going to get us anything of substance.

Taking on the contract of Thornton was the cost of acquiring a workable young big and another first round pick. All for nothing more than an expiring $10.3 million trade exception.

Ray Allen chose to leave. He was offered more to stay but he chose to leave. *shrugs*

Wallace and KG will be long gone and off the books, but the 1st round picks will benefit us in the future. We still haven't squeezed all the goodness out of Thornton's contract. It can be added to other contracts to facilitate more trades or TPEs.

In what way do the likes of Lopes or Kaman make the Celtics contenders now or in the future?

I don't know much about Phoenix except that they beat us once by 4 points, they are the 8th seed in the west and they are barely making the playoffs. I would like to aim a little higher than that.

gyso

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:49 pm

sam wrote:Cow, I really don't know how to answer your follow-up. What do soft bigs have to do with my theme of whether to play the young guys more? To answer your query, I don't miss much, and what I saw was an opportunistic attempt to resuscitate out-of-date ancient history while ignoring the topic of the thread entirely.

If you want to continue this conversation, how about doing it off the board? Private message, not my private email, would be an appropriate vehicle.

Sam

Sam on my first post on this thread I did make a comment on our young bigs, my post wasn't just about ancient history.

by **hawksnestbeach** Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:51 pm

Look what you started, Sam: salient commentary from several Board members. (Don't go, dboss; we can't afford to lose you!) If we, devoted fans, are retching it's easy to understand why Jeff Green is scowling. A couple of weeks ago, passes were on the money. He was coming into his prime, fully healed and paired with the NBA's most talented point guard.
We were talking about Green's consistency.
A couple of weeks ago, we were a team capable of beating anyone in the NBA. because the line-up kdp skewered accurately for their performance in some games, was in others, a scrappy aggressive core on its way up the NBA ladder.
The difference was Rondo, who could be just as good for us as he was against us, hitting jumpers, foul shots, rebounding, passing, leading his team however he was needed. That he didn't go all-out this season for a rebuilding team is understandable IMO because he understood the Celtics' strategy of amassing and using draft picks to build a team that would win in the future, not now. Rondo is a warrior, but has been injured and understandably wants to minimize reinjury in games that are meaningless to management - the ones who sign his paycheck.
Would he have stayed beyond this year? I don't know, but his loss is real.
IMO the rest of this year is an audition where no one's really keeping score. Danny and Brad have to decide who to keep, unload, draft, trade away. I think Green believes he will be traded and it wouldn't surprise me.
Look at Kelly O. from Brad's perspective. His boss moved up to draft him, and yes, he can shoot, but his defense is awful. Or Sully, our earthbound 4, butt of fat jokes on other teams' boards. We talk of getting a player who can help hide our current players' deficiencies, not of our building blocks.
Still, I agree with Worcester; we don't know whether Danny's dealing will pay off. And we do have some interesting talent to evaluate. For a young player, like Young, the chance to play now is an opportunity of a lifetime and we may see the future this year. Hawk

by **dbrown4** Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:52 pm

Come on, Sam. You've seen this old gag before. If you come out of the gate attacking yourself before the vulturous reporters jump on you and read you the riot act, they (reporters) are less likely to release their venom on the losing coach. It lets all the air out of the tire.

It's the same reason most people like a self-deprecating comedian. You can't jump on a guy that's already beating up himself! Now THAT'S funny!!

Unfortunately, the Celtics are nothing to laugh about this season. Our opponents may see things differently.

db

by **kdp59** Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:05 pm

well one thing for sure, this loss to Charlotte really pissed most fans off!

Gyso, you hit it on the head right where this team is, IMO.

My post was mostly tongue in check (as my thread to what I really feel about each player I think proved). of course it was also frustration right after another game we should have won.

as for the contracts we have right now, most come off the books after this year. The CBA will determine IF Ainge will just clear cap space for a FA signing OR use the holds as needed for leverage. While I feel I have a fair handle on the cap and its many ramification's, the reality is you almost have to be on an NBA payroll to know all the ins and outs.

The players we have now make us a lottery team (even before the Rondo trade), IMO.

Ainge has amassed some good future assets to make moves with to improve the team. But it may take two full years until we see a big move in the standings, IMO.

Stevens coaching needs to improve, IMO ( I said a while back not having a long time NBA assistant or former NBA head coach on the staff, is a mistake).

there is a lot of blame for where this team is and a lot places to place the blame (players, Coaching, Front office).

as Celtic fans we will hope for a quicker rebuild and look for those (whats the term used here) Glimmers? for a better future.

Oh yeah, I'll continue to raze those players as required...it keeps my blood pressure down!

now lets get out there and kick some Brooklyn ASS!!

by **international** Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:46 pm

Gyso.Do you remember the last time our team was under the cap?If I am not mistaken was the year Rick Pitino took the team.That is a lot of time,even in the M L Carr years we were over the cap.That is not good.If wanted to start from 0 ,he had to let Garnett,Pierce, and the others to end their contracts and rebuild with young players and cap space.You mentioned the multiple picks and I say multiple picks for what?To draft Fab Melo over Miles Plumbly and Festus Ezely and to draft Kelly O over Rudy Gobert and Gorgui Dieng ?

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