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by **112288** Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:49 pm

Celtics Wrap: Brutal Scoring Drought Hands Blazers 109-105 Win
The Celtics didn't score a single field goal in the final seven minutes

NESN by Alexandra Francisco

Another horrible loss.

The Boston Celtics gave up as much as a 15-point lead to, yet again, fall under a .500 record. They lost 109-105 to the Portland Trail Blazers despite being up 100-89 at one point in the fourth quarter.

The Celtics fell to 23-24 on the season, while the Trail Blazers improve to 19-16.

ONE BIG TAKEAWAY
It’s strange, because in the first half Jayson Tatum was playing really well while doing a lot of the ballhandling and aggressively going downhill. But at the same time, he missed his 18th consecutive 3-pointer, the longest slump from deep of his career.

He still played a great game with a team-high 27 points, 10 rebounds and seven assists. And in support, his teammates actually shot well at points. Grant Williams and Romeo Langford both had good shooting support off the bench in a game where typical secondary scorers Dennis Schröder and Josh Richardson never got going (not that Richardson had a chance, really).

But a combination of bad decisions and turnovers toward the end of the game made the benching of Richardson (12 minutes) look a little strange. Al Horford also sat down the stretch when Boston could have used his defensive presence. Another team takes advantage of a mismatched Celtics lineup down the stretch, and Boston fails to score a field goal over the last seven minutes.

STARS OF THE GAME
— During a brutal third-quarter stretch where the Celtics went ice cold and the Blazers took a lead, Jaylen Brown was the only player hitting anything for Boston.

He finished with a balanced 22 points, five rebounds and five assists in addition to a pair of free throws that broke a six-minute scoring drought at the end of the fourth.

— Romeo Langford should have earned himself some more playing time.

Among a lineup featuring Tatum, Brown, Langford and Robert Williams the Celtics turned a 12-point deficit into a four-point lead to close out the final 10 minutes of the second quarter. Along with a late-game block that almost saved the game, he was a +19 and had 12 points with two rebounds.

— Grant Williams remains one of the only Celtics players shooting above their average clip this season, and in addition to a smart and timely charge taken in the final three minutes, he finished with 13 points, eight rebounds, three assists and a steal.

WAGER WATCH
The Celtics were eight-point favorites on Friday night, with moneyline odds for them to beat Portland set at -335 by DraftKings Sportsbook entering the game. Naturally, they made it quite interesting, as they have often in games where they’ve been favored by that many points.

On the other side of that, the Blazers offered a good value bet, with a $100 bet on their victory profiting $260. It ended up being the way to go.

UP NEXT
The Celtics head down to the capital to face the Washington Wizards for an afternoon tip Sunday.

112288

by **prakash** Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:55 pm

Time to embrace a bit of a rebuild!

by **112288** Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:10 pm

prakash

You have too look on the bright side, it cannot get any worst!

Sad but true. The team is in Purgatory or no man's land............We're not in Heaven but we're not in Hell!

What we do not have is a true lock down shooter like Ray Allen. Sorry but Tatum's slip in shooting started last year, not this year. It was disguised by some of his big games, but he often had some piss poor games where he could not hit the ocean with the ball.

What this team lacks besides scoring, is swagger! KG brought that swagger when he joined the Celtics, before that, we had nothing. Brad has too look for that swagger guy, just like what Green brought to SF.

112288

by **atcross** Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:10 pm

Walking the ball up time and again, leaving only 17 on the clock. Then dribble, dribble, and force an ISO. Neither Tatum nor Schroder are floor generals. They are the antithesis. They would have won the game if they'd let Langford, Pritchard, or Richardson initiate.

by **cowens/oldschool** Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:16 pm

This has got to be up there with worse loss of the season. Oh right that was the Bulls game or the Knicks game, other vintage 4th quarter collapses. I was feeling sorry for the Blazers seeing their roster, have you ever seen 2 worst starting forwards with no game in Covington and Little? Their best player Lillard was out. We had an 11 point lead with about 7 minutes left and it has to be seen to believe, the ineptitude and bad offense possession after possession that followed. Never saw anything like this. Romeo played great, I think his best game, but with a line up of Romeo Jaylen Jayson Al RWill, we couldn’t do anything at all with 2 J’s leading us to rudderless basketball with no pg. Tatum is not a point, him looking to pass and set up the offense was a nightmare down the stretch leading to the whole team going cold. Little guys get into his airspace, crowd him and he dribbles aimlessly outside as seconds go by doing nothing, leading to a bad rushed shot. Why not post up Tatum or Brown, get them attacking the rim, driving, something, anything would have been better than this crap? Ime has no 4th quarter strategy that I saw, if someone can explain what it was, please tell me/us. I have no idea…???

by **cowens/oldschool** Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:26 pm

112288 wrote:prakash

You have too look on the bright side, it cannot get any worst!

Sad but true. The team is in Purgatory or no man's land............We're not in Heaven but we're not in Hell!

What we do not have is a true lock down shooter like Ray Allen. Sorry but Tatum's slip in shooting started last year, not this year. It was disguised by some of his big games, but he often had some piss poor games where he could not hit the ocean with the ball.

What this team lacks besides scoring, is swagger! KG brought that swagger when he joined the Celtics, before that, we had nothing. Brad has too look for that swagger guy, just like what Green brought to SF.

112288

What makes you think it can’t get any worse? Kitron might disagree, but this coach is clueless at a lot of levels, especially 4th quarter winning basketball, instead we are getting worse and worse. J’s are proving they can’t carry us in the 4th. A lot of that is on the coach, ofcourse players too. That’s what I’m seeing.

by **hawksnestbeach** Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:02 am

I saw the last 5 minutes, like watching a car crash in slow motion, with Tatum as point guard and no one willing or able to take on Nurkic at either end. RW is great, at times, but needs a KG type on the floor to shut down shots in the paint. I still think the talent is there, but I must be crazy. hawk

by **sinus007** Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:59 am

Hi,
Alas, it was a loss. One more game of wasted opportunities.
One more game that pushed my opinion closer to the direction of Ime Udoka is not good fit for this team. One more game that showed his inability to guide the team in the right direction.
It seems fine when the team plays as it could but if there's a "stormy weather" he looks lost. It seems that this team needs a much stronger hand of a much more experienced coach.

AK

by **dbrown4** Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:14 am

I have to admit something. I'm sure you folks have seen this from me for years all along but here goes.

I'm a fair weather fan. I know there are franchises out there that would kill for our position just this year, but for a Celtic fan, we might as well be in hell. This is pure drudgery just being 2 years in Mediocreville with no change in sight and actually probably slipping now. What does the Bible says, "Because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I am about to spit you out of my mouth!" (Revelation 3:15-16).

Lather.Rinse.Repeat. Tired of flipping a coin. Sure hope management knows what they're doing! We'll see...

db

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:44 pm

The fact this team collapses every tight game in the 4th, with the 2 stars confused or inefficient as scorers or initiators tells me the Ime Udoka head coach lead dog is not working, I think that’s obvious on both ends. There is no way we should have lost this game if you look at both teams on paper and actually saw we even had an 11 point lead with 7 minutes left….except we collapsed because we got completely outcoached. The zone got us, we were unprepared as we have been this year in other vintage collapses, in these others we had 25 point leads….terrible to be that inefficient as a coach and I know the players have some blame too.

by **Ktron** Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:04 pm

112288 wrote:prakash

You have too look on the bright side, it cannot get any worst!

Sad but true. The team is in Purgatory or no man's land............We're not in Heaven but we're not in Hell!

What we do not have is a true lock down shooter like Ray Allen. Sorry but Tatum's slip in shooting started last year, not this year. It was disguised by some of his big games, but he often had some piss poor games where he could not hit the ocean with the ball.

What this team lacks besides scoring, is swagger! KG brought that swagger when he joined the Celtics, before that, we had nothing. Brad has too look for that swagger guy, just like what Green brought to SF.

112288

. Tatum has missed his last 20 3’s. He has taken more shots than anyone in the NBA this year. He played point in the 4th quarter and we didn’t get a field goal for 7 plus minutes.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:06 pm

Ktron wrote:
112288 wrote:prakash

You have too look on the bright side, it cannot get any worst!

Sad but true. The team is in Purgatory or no man's land............We're not in Heaven but we're not in Hell!

What we do not have is a true lock down shooter like Ray Allen. Sorry but Tatum's slip in shooting started last year, not this year. It was disguised by some of his big games, but he often had some piss poor games where he could not hit the ocean with the ball.

What this team lacks besides scoring, is swagger! KG brought that swagger when he joined the Celtics, before that, we had nothing. Brad has too look for that swagger guy, just like what Green brought to SF.

112288
. Tatum has missed his last 20 3’s. He has taken more shots than anyone in the NBA this year. He played point in the 4th quarter and we didn’t get a field goal for 7 plus minutes.

Was that good coaching?

by **Ktron** Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:18 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:This has got to be up there with worse loss of the season. Oh right that was the Bulls game or the Knicks game, other vintage 4th quarter collapses. I was feeling sorry for the Blazers seeing their roster, have you ever seen 2 worst starting forwards with no game in Covington and Little? Their best player Lillard was out. We had an 11 point lead with about 7 minutes left and it has to be seen to believe, the ineptitude and bad offense possession after possession that followed. Never saw anything like this. Romeo played great, I think his best game, but with a line up of Romeo Jaylen Jayson Al RWill, we couldn’t do anything at all with 2 J’s leading us to rudderless basketball with no pg. Tatum is not a point, him looking to pass and set up the offense was a nightmare down the stretch leading to the whole team going cold. Little guys get into his airspace, crowd him and he dribbles aimlessly outside as seconds go by doing nothing, leading to a bad rushed shot. Why not post up Tatum or Brown, get them attacking the rim, driving, something, anything would have been better than this crap? Ime has no 4th quarter strategy that I saw, if someone can explain what it was, please tell me/us. I have no idea…???

You answered your own question. You watched the same game I did. Tatum did what he felt like doing even when he had options handed out by the coaching staff. Tatum has missed his last 20 3’s and leads the league in shots taken.TATUM took those 3’s (and that final shot where he had options but faded and took another 3) Thats on him. No one player on and off the bench did and neither did the coach. Brown flat out sucked and even appeared shaken at one point.
The 2 kids that you continually touted as superstars are failing everyone around them. It never fails. You point out all the things our players are doing wrong. Its very clear that they are doing things with no regard for others on the team and your summation is always that it’s the coaches fault. Amazing.

by **Ktron** Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:19 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
Ktron wrote:
112288 wrote:prakash

You have too look on the bright side, it cannot get any worst!

Sad but true. The team is in Purgatory or no man's land............We're not in Heaven but we're not in Hell!

What we do not have is a true lock down shooter like Ray Allen. Sorry but Tatum's slip in shooting started last year, not this year. It was disguised by some of his big games, but he often had some piss poor games where he could not hit the ocean with the ball.

What this team lacks besides scoring, is swagger! KG brought that swagger when he joined the Celtics, before that, we had nothing. Brad has too look for that swagger guy, just like what Green brought to SF.

112288
. Tatum has missed his last 20 3’s. He has taken more shots than anyone in the NBA this year. He played point in the 4th quarter and we didn’t get a field goal for 7 plus minutes.

Was that good coaching?

. He does what he damn well pleases. You haven’t figured that out yet??

by **jrleftfoot** Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:09 am

atcross wrote:Walking the ball up time and again, leaving only 17 on the clock. Then dribble, dribble, and force an ISO. Neither Tatum nor Schroder are floor generals. They are the antithesis. They would have won the game if they'd let Langford, Pritchard, or Richardson initiate.

I remember when the Celtics brought the ball up the court with three passes and no dribbles

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:42 am

Ktron wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:This has got to be up there with worse loss of the season. Oh right that was the Bulls game or the Knicks game, other vintage 4th quarter collapses. I was feeling sorry for the Blazers seeing their roster, have you ever seen 2 worst starting forwards with no game in Covington and Little? Their best player Lillard was out. We had an 11 point lead with about 7 minutes left and it has to be seen to believe, the ineptitude and bad offense possession after possession that followed. Never saw anything like this. Romeo played great, I think his best game, but with a line up of Romeo Jaylen Jayson Al RWill, we couldn’t do anything at all with 2 J’s leading us to rudderless basketball with no pg. Tatum is not a point, him looking to pass and set up the offense was a nightmare down the stretch leading to the whole team going cold. Little guys get into his airspace, crowd him and he dribbles aimlessly outside as seconds go by doing nothing, leading to a bad rushed shot. Why not post up Tatum or Brown, get them attacking the rim, driving, something, anything would have been better than this crap? Ime has no 4th quarter strategy that I saw, if someone can explain what it was, please tell me/us. I have no idea…???

You answered your own question. You watched the same game I did. Tatum did what he felt like doing even when he had options handed out by the coaching staff. Tatum has missed his last 20 3’s and leads the league in shots taken.TATUM took those 3’s (and that final shot where he had options but faded and took another 3) Thats on him. No one player on and off the bench did and neither did the coach. Brown flat out sucked and even appeared shaken at one point.
The 2 kids that you continually touted as superstars are failing everyone around them. It never fails. You point out all the things our players are doing wrong. Its very clear that they are doing things with no regard for others on the team and your summation is always that it’s the coaches fault. Amazing.

I agree it’s on the players, when players get no coaching, have no plan in 4th quarters and tight games over and over and we see them and team regress with same mistakes and inept play, that’s also on the coach, got it? Under his coaching they are regressing for the first time. Ime is clueless against a zone, has no quick counters in a tight game that have actually worked, except one recent game.

by **dboss** Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:27 pm

I guess the phrase 'worst game' is being used so much that it is starting to lose its' meaning. It has turned into a just wait for the next game that is even worst than so many other worst games.

This crap needs to be published. Write a tell all book, 'How to lose another game' for dummies.

The first thing that is consistent and clearly a factor in all of these losses is our 3 point shooting. 29.7% is not good enough to win game in and game out.

This team will remain horribly flawed until they get all the right pieces in place. We desperately need a floor general. We desperately need an outlet guy, 3rd scorer that can knock down open looks and we need more front court depth. That part is not on Ime. But he still has to play the hand that was dealt.

The players lost this game but coach Udoka can hang this loss around his neck because his rotation decisions in the 4th were mind boggling stupid. I like Ime but if I said I think he has been a above average coach I would be lying. There is no creativity on offense. I think Ime is just about shell shocked at this point. I question if he is a high end X's and O's guy on offense or just a concept guy. So you put the ball in Tatum's hand and he does not run the play as drawn up. Maybe you just take the ball out of his hands and give it to your point guard.

With Marcus out still we needed to have a actual point guard in the game down the stretch. Instead we get the golden child running the offense. The rotations with Romeo and Grant in there was very productive until they were not.

When you are down by 1 freakin point (105-104) with 13 seconds remaining, a ball pounding, clock killing possession that ended with that god awful step back 3 from Tatum ensures another painful lost.

This has the same storyline that looks like a sequel to groundhog day.

If you are an owner are you going to pay one damn penny in luxury tax? hell no.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:46 pm

Dboss how about all the lame possessions before the last possession? Your critique of Ime is mild and weak, like this team in the 4th. Ime’s offense in 4th quarters is getting worse. A lot of posters were like it’s early in the season, well now it’s not. Okay he had no time to install an offense vs the zone, well that’s part of his flip* job. These are all facts Kitron, maybe he did have a practice vs zone, well it sucked and didn’t work. Fact J’s are regressing for the first time Fact this team is playing badly with no strategy or counters for painful long stretches that cost us game after game. Fact Ime hasn’t figured out what works for this team, now we’re losing games to the bad teams with epic collapses. Fact the J’s both should be so much better, they are not being put in best positions to score; a young inexperienced coach might not be the best fit with young inexperienced talented players especially with every opposing coach game planning to stop them.

by **Shamrock1000** Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:24 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss how about all the lame possessions before the last possession? Your critique of Ime is mild and weak, like this team in the 4th. Ime’s offense in 4th quarters is getting worse. A lot of posters were like it’s early in the season, well now it’s not. Okay he had no time to install an offense vs the zone, well that’s part of his flip* job. These are all facts Kitron, maybe he did have a practice vs zone, well it sucked and didn’t work. Fact J’s are regressing for the first time Fact this team is playing badly with no strategy or counters for painful long stretches that cost us game after game. Fact Ime hasn’t figured out what works for this team, now we’re losing games to the bad teams with epic collapses. Fact the J’s both should be so much better, they are not being put in best positions to score; a young inexperienced coach might not be the best fit with young inexperienced talented players especially with every opposing coach game planning to stop them.

Out of curiosity, I went back and watched Ime's introductory press conference. The first time I saw it, when it actually happened, I remember noticing how Ime kept looking at Brad, Wyc, and Steve and thinking to myself "this guy doesn't seem sure thar he belongs here". At the time I figured I was over-analyzing, but Ime does seem like he's in over his head. Whatever system he's installed doesn't work for the personal he was given, but instead of adjusting, he keeps trying to ram the square peg in the round hole. I just don't think he's ready. Do our players actually practice shooting in any meaningful way? It doesn't look like it. Ime probably figures players will get shots up on their own, which is fair - but, it's obviously not working. You all know the quote often misattributed to Albert Einstein:

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

But all the blame can't go on Ime. If he is indeed not ready, then maybe Brad should have picked a coach who was ready rather than letting Tatum and Brown pick the guy they got along with at the Olympics. Also, it sure seems Ike everyone (me included) over-rated Tatum. He is no where near top 10. Not even top 20. Everyone is always saying he needs to drive more (again, me included), but now I'm thinking Tatum actually sucks at driving. Good drivers like Pierce can take contact, twist and turn, and then adjust to make the shot. Tatum doesn't have that kind of body control. Any contact or need to change direction and he seems to be panicked and out of control, and just chucks the ball up hoping for a foul.. I am.beginning to think Tatum can't be your alpha dog. That dog just isn't in him. Brown has been a little more consistent, but he definitely doesn't make anyone better. They're both still young, but in my mind neither are untouchable. I hate to say it, but after dumping Pierce and Garnett and getting all those picks almost 10 years ago, we are treadmilling in mediocrity in exactly the same way those moves and picks were supposed to allow us to avoid.

by **dboss** Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:25 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss how about all the lame possessions before the last possession? Your critique of Ime is mild and weak, like this team in the 4th. Ime’s offense in 4th quarters is getting worse. A lot of posters were like it’s early in the season, well now it’s not. Okay he had no time to install an offense vs the zone, well that’s part of his flip* job. These are all facts Kitron, maybe he did have a practice vs zone, well it sucked and didn’t work. Fact J’s are regressing for the first time Fact this team is playing badly with no strategy or counters for painful long stretches that cost us game after game. Fact Ime hasn’t figured out what works for this team, now we’re losing games to the bad teams with epic collapses. Fact the J’s both should be so much better, they are not being put in best positions to score; a young inexperienced coach might not be the best fit with young inexperienced talented players especially with every opposing coach game planning to stop them.

Cow

Ime is a rookie coach with a flawed roster. In combination, that is a disaster. Every team in the NBA, the good ones and the dog teams know that you blitz the Jays and that is how you can beat them. You also have at work career lows in shooting from several of our key players. Not saying every shot is great but all I am seeing are a ton of open shots and way too many misses. Collectively we are not shooting the ball efficiently. There are simply not enough two point opportunities to make up for poor shooting from deep.

I do not think Ime can be blamed for our horrible shooting percentage from deep. However we have lost far too many winnable games and close game are often decided by savvy coaching decisions. The fact is Ime has not explored lineup options that may work better. He is stuck on that 2 big lineup even though in Philly it did not work out. The notion that Al was not used correctly in Philly may not be true. The fact is that Al has been on the decline for years. How is it that Josh Richardson only gets 12 minutes in a game? Why has he not gotten one start. Not one. How do you bench Dennis and decide to play without a point guard?

Bottom line, I think the roster is flawed and Ime has not figured out how to maximize a flawed roster.

by **Ktron** Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:30 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
Ktron wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:This has got to be up there with worse loss of the season. Oh right that was the Bulls game or the Knicks game, other vintage 4th quarter collapses. I was feeling sorry for the Blazers seeing their roster, have you ever seen 2 worst starting forwards with no game in Covington and Little? Their best player Lillard was out. We had an 11 point lead with about 7 minutes left and it has to be seen to believe, the ineptitude and bad offense possession after possession that followed. Never saw anything like this. Romeo played great, I think his best game, but with a line up of Romeo Jaylen Jayson Al RWill, we couldn’t do anything at all with 2 J’s leading us to rudderless basketball with no pg. Tatum is not a point, him looking to pass and set up the offense was a nightmare down the stretch leading to the whole team going cold. Little guys get into his airspace, crowd him and he dribbles aimlessly outside as seconds go by doing nothing, leading to a bad rushed shot. Why not post up Tatum or Brown, get them attacking the rim, driving, something, anything would have been better than this crap? Ime has no 4th quarter strategy that I saw, if someone can explain what it was, please tell me/us. I have no idea…???

You answered your own question. You watched the same game I did. Tatum did what he felt like doing even when he had options handed out by the coaching staff. Tatum has missed his last 20 3’s and leads the league in shots taken.TATUM took those 3’s (and that final shot where he had options but faded and took another 3) Thats on him. No one player on and off the bench did and neither did the coach. Brown flat out sucked and even appeared shaken at one point.
The 2 kids that you continually touted as superstars are failing everyone around them. It never fails. You point out all the things our players are doing wrong. Its very clear that they are doing things with no regard for others on the team and your summation is always that it’s the coaches fault. Amazing.

I agree it’s on the players, when players get no coaching, have no plan in 4th quarters and tight games over and over and we see them and team regress with same mistakes and inept play, that’s also on the coach, got it? Under his coaching they are regressing for the first time. Ime is clueless against a zone, has no quick counters in a tight game that have actually worked, except one recent game.

The first 10 words of your post says it all. That makes no sense. None! You been laser focused on the head coach for the past 8 yrs. It’s so easy to blame the head coach. I may not agree with all of his moves or non moves either but I have watched (and played a lil bit) this game long enough to know that it’s not as simplistic as you try to make it sound.
With all due respect, It appears that you’re infected with Clipper Mentality- Change coaches as often as you change your drawers and expect the s**t stains going to change.

by **Ktron** Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:03 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss how about all the lame possessions before the last possession? Your critique of Ime is mild and weak, like this team in the 4th. Ime’s offense in 4th quarters is getting worse. A lot of posters were like it’s early in the season, well now it’s not. Okay he had no time to install an offense vs the zone, well that’s part of his flip* job. These are all facts Kitron, maybe he did have a practice vs zone, well it sucked and didn’t work. Fact J’s are regressing for the first time Fact this team is playing badly with no strategy or counters for painful long stretches that cost us game after game. Fact Ime hasn’t figured out what works for this team, now we’re losing games to the bad teams with epic collapses. Fact the J’s both should be so much better, they are not being put in best positions to score; a young inexperienced coach might not be the best fit with young inexperienced talented players especially with every opposing coach game planning to stop them.

Out of curiosity, I went back and watched Ime's introductory press conference. The first time I saw it, when it actually happened, I remember noticing how Ime kept looking at Brad, Wyc, and Steve and thinking to myself "this guy doesn't seem sure thar he belongs here". At the time I figured I was over-analyzing, but Ime does seem like he's in over his head. Whatever system he's installed doesn't work for the personal he was given, but instead of adjusting, he keeps trying to ram the square peg in the round hole. I just don't think he's ready. Do our players actually practice shooting in any meaningful way? It doesn't look like it. Ime probably figures players will get shots up on their own, which is fair - but, it's obviously not working. You all know the quote often misattributed to Albert Einstein:

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

But all the blame can't go on Ime. If he is indeed not ready, then maybe Brad should have picked a coach who was ready rather than letting Tatum and Brown pick the guy they got along with at the Olympics. Also, it sure seems Ike everyone (me included) over-rated Tatum. He is no where near top 10. Not even top 20. Everyone is always saying he needs to drive more (again, me included), but now I'm thinking Tatum actually sucks at driving. Good drivers like Pierce can take contact, twist and turn, and then adjust to make the shot. Tatum doesn't have that kind of body control. Any contact or need to change direction and he seems to be panicked and out of control, and just chucks the ball up hoping for a foul.. I am.beginning to think Tatum can't be your alpha dog. That dog just isn't in him. Brown has been a little more consistent, but he definitely doesn't make anyone better. They're both still young, but in my mind neither are untouchable. I hate to say it, but after dumping Pierce and Garnett and getting all those picks almost 10 years ago, we are treadmilling in mediocrity in exactly the same way those moves and picks were supposed to allow us to avoid.[/quote}

by **Ktron** Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:11 pm

dboss wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss how about all the lame possessions before the last possession? Your critique of Ime is mild and weak, like this team in the 4th. Ime’s offense in 4th quarters is getting worse. A lot of posters were like it’s early in the season, well now it’s not. Okay he had no time to install an offense vs the zone, well that’s part of his flip* job. These are all facts Kitron, maybe he did have a practice vs zone, well it sucked and didn’t work. Fact J’s are regressing for the first time Fact this team is playing badly with no strategy or counters for painful long stretches that cost us game after game. Fact Ime hasn’t figured out what works for this team, now we’re losing games to the bad teams with epic collapses. Fact the J’s both should be so much better, they are not being put in best positions to score; a young inexperienced coach might not be the best fit with young inexperienced talented players especially with every opposing coach game planning to stop them.

Cow

Ime is a rookie coach with a flawed roster. In combination, that is a disaster. Every team in the NBA, the good ones and the dog teams know that you blitz the Jays and that is how you can beat them. You also have at work career lows in shooting from several of our key players. Not saying every shot is great but all I am seeing are a ton of open shots and way too many misses. Collectively we are not shooting the ball efficiently. There are simply not enough two point opportunities to make up for poor shooting from deep.

I do not think Ime can be blamed for our horrible shooting percentage from deep. However we have lost far too many winnable games and close game are often decided by savvy coaching decisions. The fact is Ime has not explored lineup options that may work better. He is stuck on that 2 big lineup even though in Philly it did not work out. The notion that Al was not used correctly in Philly may not be true. The fact is that Al has been on the decline for years. How is it that Josh Richardson only gets 12 minutes in a game? Why has he not gotten one start. Not one. How do you bench Dennis and decide to play without a point guard?

Bottom line, I think the roster is flawed and Ime has not figured out how to maximize a flawed roster.

Dboss, Cowens has tunnel vision. He also still doesn't know what a “fact” is. I’m done wasting my time on his one sided subjective coaching takes.

by **Ktron** Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:16 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss how about all the lame possessions before the last possession? Your critique of Ime is mild and weak, like this team in the 4th. Ime’s offense in 4th quarters is getting worse. A lot of posters were like it’s early in the season, well now it’s not. Okay he had no time to install an offense vs the zone, well that’s part of his flip* job. These are all facts Kitron, maybe he did have a practice vs zone, well it sucked and didn’t work. Fact J’s are regressing for the first time Fact this team is playing badly with no strategy or counters for painful long stretches that cost us game after game. Fact Ime hasn’t figured out what works for this team, now we’re losing games to the bad teams with epic collapses. Fact the J’s both should be so much better, they are not being put in best positions to score; a young inexperienced coach might not be the best fit with young inexperienced talented players especially with every opposing coach game planning to stop them.

Out of curiosity, I went back and watched Ime's introductory press conference. The first time I saw it, when it actually happened, I remember noticing how Ime kept looking at Brad, Wyc, and Steve and thinking to myself "this guy doesn't seem sure thar he belongs here". At the time I figured I was over-analyzing, but Ime does seem like he's in over his head. Whatever system he's installed doesn't work for the personal he was given, but instead of adjusting, he keeps trying to ram the square peg in the round hole. I just don't think he's ready. Do our players actually practice shooting in any meaningful way? It doesn't look like it. Ime probably figures players will get shots up on their own, which is fair - but, it's obviously not working. You all know the quote often misattributed to Albert Einstein:

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

But all the blame can't go on Ime. If he is indeed not ready, then maybe Brad should have picked a coach who was ready rather than letting Tatum and Brown pick the guy they got along with at the Olympics. Also, it sure seems Ike everyone (me included) over-rated Tatum. He is no where near top 10. Not even top 20. Everyone is always saying he needs to drive more (again, me included), but now I'm thinking Tatum actually sucks at driving. Good drivers like Pierce can take contact, twist and turn, and then adjust to make the shot. Tatum doesn't have that kind of body control. Any contact or need to change direction and he seems to be panicked and out of control, and just chucks the ball up hoping for a foul.. I am.beginning to think Tatum can't be your alpha dog. That dog just isn't in him. Brown has been a little more consistent, but he definitely doesn't make anyone better. They're both still young, but in my mind neither are untouchable. I hate to say it, but after dumping Pierce and Garnett and getting all those picks almost 10 years ago, we are treadmilling in mediocrity in exactly the same way those moves and picks were supposed to allow us to avoid.

How can you surmise that a coach is not ready after 50 games? How do you come to the conclusion that Ime looking at the owner and Brad indicates that one feels like he doesn't belong? Come on man.
Also, who said Ime didn’t have time to install an offense? I surely did not. So please do not put words in my mouth.
FYI, none of these NBA teams have practiced together as they normally would because of the pandemic. However, that doesn't prevent players from getting up shots in the gym. If Jaylen and Jason in their 5th year and beyond are not improving at the pace you think they should be then that’s on them. Aren’t they the all stars on this frigging team?

If you want to pick apart all of the negative plays or non plays YOU think the coach should have made at least be objective and lay some of this on the players. I get it we are all impatient and pissed off at what we thought this team was going to be. But saying a coach is in over his head or is not ready based on a little over a half season is laughable. We are seeing these core players doing the same things they did under a 7 yr head coach- underperforming while smelling themselves at the same time.
In case you haven’t noticed by now, Tatum and Brown have type B personalities. They ain’t never going to be alpha dogs. Their personalities wont allow it. Thats why we need a player with a Chris Paul or Rondo mentality. Smart is the closest to that but not quite enough.
After Pierce and Garnett left for all of the draft picks everyone including me thought we were going to be stacked for a long time. What happened? We are now seeing the trickle down effect of Danny Ray’s ineptness. He fked this team up and now he’s in Utah less than a year after stinking up the joint.
I only wish that the head coach was the problem but he ain’t. He needs to get better no doubt but if you think he should be gone after one season then I question that.
We have a si**y roster. Garbage in Garbage out. BTW, The Einstein quote is quite trite and has been for some time

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:35 pm

If anything 2 J’s overachieved in their early years, we really haven’t been same up and coming team since blowing 3-0 lead in game 3, could we have went to Finals after winning that series in 4 or 5, I think so….my eye test tells me we are repeating same mistakes over and over, while ofcourse that is on the players, it is also on the coach. Team has no confidence in tight games or effective strategy, if anything we are an embarrassment recently in these games over and over, that’s got to be on the coach too IMHO. He was previously on the sidelines as assistant in these situations, but when your the head coach big difference when it’s in your hands. So far he hasn’t shown he’s the man to get them calm and ready to play with poise in a tight situation, that’s my opinion, that’s a fact that is my opinion.

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