NBA Playoffs - Losers Bracket

by **gyso** Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:23 am

Yeah, I know there is no such thing as a loser's bracket in the NBA playoffs, but the term appealed to me.

This can be a place to post articles and make comments about teams that lose in the playoffs.

I'll start with this one:

Kyrie Irving plans to keep 'managing' Nets alongside Kevin Durant, front office

https://sports.yahoo.com/kyrie-irving-plans-to-keep-managing-nets-alongside-kevin-durant-front-office-051853060.html

If the LeBron James-era Miami Heat marked the peak of what player empowerment can accomplish in the NBA, look no further than the 2022 postseason for its nadir.

Absent: LeBron and the Los Angeles Lakers of his vision historically flamed out of the playoffs before they began. Absent as of Monday: A Brooklyn Nets squad built by, of and for Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, swept out of the first round in alarming fashion by the Boston Celtics.

The two teams that entered 2021-22 as betting favorites to meet in the Finals exit with a grand total of zero playoff wins between them. In a slugfest of historic NBA disappointments, it's difficult to discern who failed worse. And why choose? Both train wrecks are so grand in scale.

Irving plans on 'managing this franchise' alongside KD

If you ask Irving, he should continue to be trusted with the keys to the Nets franchise. In fact, he assumes he will be. Not an hour removed from Monday's seismic Game 4 loss, Irving was ready to run it back with the same folks who built this disaster tasked again with constructing whatever comes next. Most notably, himself. Along with Durant, general manager Sean Marks and team owner Joe Tsai.

In a postgame statement divorced from the reality of the daunting failure he played such an outsized role in crafting, Irving announced his intention to exercise his player option to remain with the Nets next season and beyond. He also plans to keep calling shots.

https://twitter.com/_Talkin_NBA/status/1518781768542961665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1518781768542961665%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fkyrie-irving-plans-to-keep-managing-nets-alongside-kevin-durant-front-office-051853060.html

"I don't really plan on going anywhere," Irving said, addressing his contract situation. "This is added motivation for our franchise to be at the top of the league for the next few years. I'm just looking forward to the summer and building with our guys here."

Asked for clarification about his future with Durant and the Nets, Irving laid out his plans, which include "managing this franchise."

"When I say I'm here with Kev, I think that really entails us managing this franchise together alongside Joe and Sean, just our group of family members that we have in our locker room and our organization."

Did Irving watch this season?

Irving made his declaration without a tinge of irony or acknowledgment that he failed to show up to work for 53 regular season games, largely because of his own decision not to take a COVID-19 vaccine. Or that it was his self-induced, avoidable absence that can be largely blamed for the Nets being stuck in the position of playing as a No. 7 seed still "trying to jell" in April to begin with.

No, Irving regularly operates in his own reality. Why should postgame after Monday's should-be crushing disappointment be any different? Why should Irving consider what anybody outside of his reality might have to say or think?

"Sometimes I feel like the noise on the external world, that outside noise can seep in," Irving continued. "I'm not the type of person to allow that to happen."

No. No, he is not.

To be fair, Irving didn't completely shirk his role in what happened in Brooklyn this season. When asked directly about how outside distractions affected the on-court product, Irving acknowledged that his impact might not have been all positive.

https://twitter.com/SNYNets/status/1518779899825332225?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1518779899825332225%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fkyrie-irving-plans-to-keep-managing-nets-alongside-kevin-durant-front-office-051853060.html

"I felt like I was letting the team down at a point where I wasn't able to play," Irving said. "We were trying to exercise every option for me to play. But I never want to just be about me. It became a distraction at times."

While it's mildly refreshing to hear Irving acknowledge the obvious, absent action that was required months ago to make an impact, it means little. And the actual reality is that the Nets are left with some unanticipated offseason time to get a head start on 2022-23.

Who's calling the shots in Brooklyn moving forward?

Next season — as Irving noted — will likely feature himself, Durant, Tsai and Marks. Will it include head coach Steve Nash? Irving failed to mention his name.

Durant scoffed at the suggestion that Nash might not return, strongly suggesting that the head coach's job is safe.

So the question looms. After this season's abject disaster, who's calling the shots moving forward? As absurd as it sounds considering this season's results, it's difficult to envision this version of the Brooklyn Nets without Irving pulling significant strings. He and Durant built this thing. As long as they're both in Brooklyn together, they'll maintain power.

And while that dynamic may not produce the desired results in the standings and the postseason, it most certainly doesn't produce boring ones.

Stay tuned.

by **dboss** Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:48 am

The Hawks need to address their lack of defense in the backcourt.

by **bobheckler** Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:44 am

dboss wrote:The Hawks need to address their lack of defense in the backcourt.

DBoss,

I'm not sure how they can do that as long as Trae Young is their starting point guard and is playing 35mpg.

He's listed as 6'1", 164#. Payton Pritchard is 6'1", 195#. I know that PP isn't the offensive force that TY is but defensively? He has 30# on him. 30. Little, undersized Payton Pritchard could post Trae Young up in the low blocks (although I doubt PP has practiced a lot of low post moves).

As long as a team has to run a bunch of schemes to hide a glaring defensive weak link they will never elevate their defense to where it is anywhere near what we have in Boston. Pritch is the only defensive weak link in Ime's 8 rotation players and he only played 14mpg this year. If I were Ime, and we were playing Atlanta, I'd post Trae Young up in the low post with Marcus Smart all game and force them to double all game. There'd be a lot of open shots to be had then.

Bob

.

by **bobheckler** Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:04 pm

As far as Kyrie goes Sean Marks has a real problem. He has a player who doesn't understand the roles of players, coaches and GMs and why they all need to stay in their own lane.

KD has publicly endorsed Steve Nash. Steve Nash hasn't been fired, yet. This has to be the most frustrating situation Nash has ever been in. Can you imagine him, in his playing days, having to deal with teammates saying "we don't need a point guard, we can all be point guards"?! Uh, no, you can't. Point guards need to be alphas. They need to demand the ball, have it in their hands and direct their teammates to where he wants them to be. Don't do what he says and you're not going to get the ball, he'll pass it to the teammate who does run the play as the point guard is calling it out.

Does Steve Nash really love coaching that much?

Bob

.

by **dbrown4** Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:07 pm

Sounds like overnight Kryrie is crying to the media again on Twitter. Stephen A. went off on him and challenged him to either come show up and defend himself on First Take for 2 hours or he would come to Kryrie's pod cast and do it there! I'd actually pay-per-view that one!!

db

by **dboss** Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:36 pm

bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:The Hawks need to address their lack of defense in the backcourt.

The Hawks just need to pair him with a quality 2 way guard. They cannot turn Young into a PG that can play defense. That is a given.

DBoss,

I'm not sure how they can do that as long as Trae Young is their starting point guard and is playing 35mpg.

He's listed as 6'1", 164#. Payton Pritchard is 6'1", 195#. I know that PP isn't the offensive force that TY is but defensively? He has 30# on him. 30. Little, undersized Payton Pritchard could post Trae Young up in the low blocks (although I doubt PP has practiced a lot of low post moves).

As long as a team has to run a bunch of schemes to hide a glaring defensive weak link they will never elevate their defense to where it is anywhere near what we have in Boston. Pritch is the only defensive weak link in Ime's 8 rotation players and he only played 14mpg this year. If I were Ime, and we were playing Atlanta, I'd post Trae Young up in the low post with Marcus Smart all game and force them to double all game. There'd be a lot of open shots to be had then.

Bob

.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:48 pm

I would not waste my time. Kyrie Irving is a selfish, one way my way kind of player. He will NEVER be happy, no matter where he is, who is his GM, Coach, or even side kick. He wants to be the Alpha Dog, that will never happen. Even when he was given the keys to the car in Boston, he screwed up. Talk all he wants about loving Jason Tatum. yet, when he and Hayward were sitting on the bench during the run the Celtics had in Kyries first year (and the year of "the injury") of Haywards, he made a slip of the tongue and admitted that they did not want those guys to win without them. That is a man who claims he is team before personal goals.

He is full of himself, will never succeed wherever he goes, and I do believe, if he does not retire early, he will never finish his career in Brooklyn The day will come when Durant will scratch his head and say "what the helll did I ever get myself into"!!!!!!! You reap what you sew gentlemen, or should i say losers.

by **dbrown4** Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:06 pm

Rosalie,

I'm 1000% sure that head scratching began at least a few months ago!!!

db

by **Ktron** Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:08 pm

bobheckler wrote:As far as Kyrie goes Sean Marks has a real problem. He has a player who doesn't understand the roles of players, coaches and GMs and why they all need to stay in their own lane.

KD has publicly endorsed Steve Nash. Steve Nash hasn't been fired, yet. This has to be the most frustrating situation Nash has ever been in. Can you imagine him, in his playing days, having to deal with teammates saying "we don't need a point guard, we can all be point guards"?! Uh, no, you can't. Point guards need to be alphas. They need to demand the ball, have it in their hands and direct their teammates to where he wants them to be. Don't do what he says and you're not going to get the ball, he'll pass it to the teammate who does run the play as the point guard is calling it out.

Does Steve Nash really love coaching that much?

Bob

.

Pity the poor guy. Steve Nash is not a good coach. Its something you refuse to acknowledge but instead keep pointing the blame on one or two players. In this case there really is only one player and thats Irving. What about Sean Marks and the owner coming out and publicly supporting their coach? If they have they must have been whispering.
A strong front office wouldn’t allow this to go on. I strong front office would've addressed not only the dribble drabble by Kyrie of not needing a coach but would have by now addressed the most recent comments that Kyrie made about managing the team. I strong front office would have by now endorsed their coach or sent him packing. As of this minute I’ve heard nothing. Their silence speaks volumes. Does their silence align with your theory of “implicit support” when you pointed out that KD not denouncing the words of Kyrie on the coaching comment somehow made him complicit because he said nothing to the contrary?
Can ownership and the FO NOT pushing back on Kyrie’s comments be taken as you said “implicit support” and are they not undermining the authority of their “coach” as well? This “implied consent” seems a bit one sided.
As far as Nash’s coaching abilities, if there are some good qualities I’ve yet to see them. However if you have feel free to point them out.

by **Ktron** Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:23 pm

dbrown4 wrote:Sounds like overnight Kryrie is crying to the media again on Twitter. Stephen A. went off on him and challenged him to either come show up and defend himself on First Take for 2 hours or he would come to Kryrie's pod cast and do it there! I'd actually pay-per-view that one!!

db

Stephen A knows Kyrie and most of these players personally. There is a protocol. If Stephen A wants to talk with him and issue an invite he need not do that over the air waves. This is not protocol. This is theatrics. Stephen A claims that he is trying to help the players but calling them out and passing out invitations for the entire world to hear is disingenuous. Its no secret that I cannot stand Kyrie. I also cannot stand it when one makes attempts to embarrass or call someone out and then invite them over. Its about ratings and face time. I get it but you don't have to make it so obvious. Its cheap tactics done by a person who has very little left of his sole. That’s the kind of media that is disturbing to me.
Stephen A is about Stephen A at anyone’s expense.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:33 pm

Not looking too good for Joel Embid. Looks like he may miss quite a few games, eye socket injury?

by **dbrown4** Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:24 am

If you saw it, it was very grandiose, going for ratings, highly theatrical, all of that.

Stephen A. is a great debater and he's not going to lose or give anyone the last word unless he is completely defeated. Don't think I 've seen that yet to date. He is also a very careful, methodical debater and controls all the questions asked on the show and the people that he has come on the show.

The only thing he is pissed at Kryrie about is his work ethic. Well that and his attempts to divert or dodge this issue when confronted with the pile of evidence against him with his nice and flowery prose. Stephen A., along with Kryrie, has gotten to where he is today, like a lot of people, because he worked his you know what off. He also worked/works smart. One can also greatly accelerate ones success in this world and in particular this country by maxing out that 3-pound blob between ones ears.

SAS is very careful to state that Kryrie is box office. Great player.

But let's face it. Kryrie is nuttier than a fruit cake. And he walks to the beat of his own drummer. That's fine if you are the only one around and no one else depends on you. But he's part of a team. And you can't be on a team and be a loner. Never seen that work in the NBA and it never will. Matter of fact I've never seen this nonsense at all until Kryrie came along. There are consequences. And he can try to divert his problem and throw it on the media in this case, or whatever cause but he can't hide on this one. All SAS did was put the ball on the 1-yard line. He evidently offered the same deal to Colin Kaepernick back in the day after much debate. And it's been crickets ever since on that offer.

Now I wouldn't be surprised if Kryrie took the challenge. But he's just wackadoodle enough to think he could out-debate SAS. I'd pay-per-view that myself.

Unfortunately, players come and go in this league, good and bad, all the time, for a variety of reasons. Now one has to ask is Kryrie even worth it? Is he worth fighting over to even be in the league? Yeah, he's good, but there are 449 other players in the league plus 60 more rabid dogs coming in every year that are willing to kill for his spot and are probably far better than Kyrie in the long run as they stay between the lines and protocols. They are happy to come to work every day. Kryrie is not. And his value is plummeting like the stock market in 1929. Just ask BS. We've just spoken on this site and speculated about a vet min for BS to pick up all the shattered pieces of his NBA career and start over.

Nobody in the working world gets paid not to show up after you've exhausted all you PTO. Nobody. And he and BS are about to change whatever stupid rule in the current CBA is and change the NBA forever. You play, you get paid. You don't, you don't get paid. That will be the new CBA rule when it comes up for renewal. And the owners, who have the assets, will ride out a players strike or a lock out until that is clearly stated. And guess who will be ready to retire at that time? Just in time to walk away from the mess he created because he doesn't like it? Just like in CLE, BOS and now BKN. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Oh, and still have his hand out for that check for playing in the NBA.

db

by **Ktron** Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:24 pm

Everything said about Kyrie happens to be true. Im not going to waste any more time discussing his antics because the whole world knows.
I personally got into a twitter diatribe with Kyrie recently and expressed my feelings about some of the things he’s been tweeting. I don't know him from a can a paint and he certainly doesn't know me. He happened to be tweeting cryptic messages aimed at Stephen A and a few other media members that have been calling him out. My message? Privately confront Stephen A and stop being a coward cryptically tweeting and not so cunningly soliciting support from the community.

Thats the same issue I have with Stephen A. I know what he’s up to and if anyone thinks thats cute, I’ve got news for you.
Stephen A a great debater? One cant be a great debater if he is the same person thats controlling the questions DB. Thats not how debates work. What Stephen A is doing is bullying and making a lame attempt at setting up a showdown.
He’s bullying because he has the platform. What many probably don't know is they allow him to bully certain people and puts the breaks on anyone they don't want him to touch. Don’t take my word for it, his track record speaks for itself.
As I stated before, Stephen A knows these players and if he wants to have a legitimate “debate” or a compelling back and forth with anyone he could do it.
Some of the players he knows wont talk to him at all so he uses his platform to attack them. Trust me, if he did that to one of ESPN’s favorite sons he’d have a problem. They allow him to attack the Irvings and the Colins because they want him to. I know a number of people that have worked at ESPN and are no longer there. I know of what i’m speaking of.
Does Dan Patrick use his platform to attack athletes? No he does not. Dan conducts compelling interviews without all the BS that comes with clowns such as Stephen A, Bayless and people of that ilk. Is Patrick a softee ? No, and if one thinks so just go and listen to his interview with the late David Stern. They went at it and there was none of the foolish theatrics attached.
Does Stephen A have huge ratings. YES he does. I know why he does and the reasoning (ratings and revenue) still doesn't make it right.
Stephan A and folks like Bayless have long ago sold their souls for a dollar at the expense of others. I’m personally not attracted to their bS because I know what its about and I know it can be hurtful for some that they attack but they don't give a FK. Yes, despite being multi millionaires, athletes too have feelings.
ESPN contradicts themselves and changes their philosophies when it becomes convenient and serves their purpose. Remember Jemelle Hill, Steve Smith and others? Jemelle attacked one of their favorite sons and not only did they publicly reprimand her, they also conveniently tried to place he in a slot where there were minimal eyeballs on her. She didn't go for it and she left and is doing fine. They treated Rachael Nichols with kid gloves and eventually she left but the reprimand of Rachael paled in comparison to the one given to Jemelle.
Listen, Stephen A is a tool. I don't deny his talent but he is a tool and allows himself to be used that way at the expense of others. If I was one of those athletes that he tried to shame I wouldn't go on there either. BTW, it should never be about having a guest on to debate them, its supposed to be informative but that train left the station the day Clinton signed the 1996 communications act. One of the major reasons why this sh*t is allowed to go via the airwaves.
It only benefits Stephen A and ESPN to have a star athlete to appear on his show. It does not benefit the star athlete. The stars get plenty of pub. They don't need Stephen A or ESPN.
I understand, there are a lot of folks that love Stephen A. I get it and I know why. If he’s your Schtick go for it. Ive been around long enough to smell BS media and clownish talent. Unfortunately Ive worked with some. Didn’t like it then and never will.
Dont get me wrong, I’m not defending bad behavior by our athletes. They should be taken to task but not this way. Save the real theatrics for the Cinema screen where it belongs. THAT even I will pay for.

by **worcester** Sun May 01, 2022 11:02 am

Ktron, You are such a man of honor, dignity, insight, and humor. It is a pleasure and privilege to read all your posts. Thank you VERY much for continuing to speak out and to defend human dignity and right action.

by **Ktron** Sun May 01, 2022 5:34 pm

worcester wrote:Ktron, You are such a man of honor, dignity, insight, and humor. It is a pleasure and privilege to read all your posts. Thank you VERY much for continuing to speak out and to defend human dignity and right action.

Thanks Worcester, In the end its just a game. No need to ruin someone’s rep (they can do that on their own) for ratings points and notoriety.

by **willjr** Sun May 01, 2022 6:18 pm

As some may remember from Super Bowl LII, I am a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan. I am a member/poster of an Eagles forum much like this one. We recently had a topic that dealt with the plethora of “debate” sports talk shows. Stephen A. and Colin Cowherd in particular. The following was my contribution to the discussion:
I think he’s a clown, a wannabe Jim Rome, who i also think is a clown. But to be honest I haven’t watched or listened to those types of shows for years. To me all of it and all of them (Stephen A. Bayless) are flip* formulaic, scripted verbal sewage. Loudmouths “I told you so’s” I have better and more interesting things to do (watching paint dry, or grass grow) than to let that inane balderdash clutter even 1% of my thought processes. It is not just limited to sports. I feel the same way about the political talking heads and the “entertainment/celebrity” crap also.
As far as Cowherd is concerned, I stopped listening to that asshole after Sean Taylor was killed. Immediately after the story broke this idiot gets on the air and doesn’t speculate but proclaims that it sounds like a love triangle thing. The fact that he was shot in the groin proves that it was most probably an affair gone bad and a woman scorned. He was still at ESPN then. How flip* reckless and irresponsible could him and that shitty network be? After the truth came out, there was no word of retraction or apology from Sherlock Holmes about the idiotic crap he said.

Addendum: I am not at all into censorship or judgement. There is obviously a huge market and demand for those type of shows. Just because it’s not my cup of tea doesn’t mean that millions of others don’t enjoy them.
My views are just that. I cast no aspersions on what anyone else finds entertaining.
I’m a 58 year old black man who has probably owned or read over 30 books on the subject of World War II Eastern (Russian) front battles and first person accounts. I’m sure that is a tiny demographic but that’s my thing. I am also sure way more people get off on sports talk than reading about 80 year old carnage and atrocities. As I said it’s my thing but I know it’s not everyone’s. So, member’s, don’t take my stance on those shows and personalities as a criticism of any of you. To each his own, different strokes for different folks, live and let live.

by **dbrown4** Mon May 02, 2022 5:48 am

All great points, Ktron. I appreciate the time and effort you put into responding. I really appreciate your chosen career path and us having someone with a media background on as a regular poster on this site. What you've written above is priceless. Thank you.

I've said a couple of times Stephen A. is the "E" in ESPN. He is Entertaining. He's loud. He's obnoxious at times. But he's excited about what he does for a living. It's difficult not to watch someone like that. There are few people who love what they do for a living and get paid for it. You might even say SAS is doing what he loves and it's not even work to him. He's like one of those music boxes back in the day where you had to wind it up via hand crank to get started, then it goes on for hours!

But he's not the top dog which means he eventually has to answer to someone or somebody or some entity. And if those somebody's are letting him run roughshod over whomever is on a short list and then there's a secret list (maybe not so secret. Who's on the untouchable list, BTW?) that has people that cannot be touched, then everyone at ESPN is to blame.

Maybe Elon Musk should buy Disney/ESPN next after Twitter, expose and/or can those responsible for zipping up free speech and open all the air waves there as well. Doesn't sound like total, uninhibited free speech is being practiced at Disney either.

SAS's comment this week now makes more sense in light of what you are saying in that he stated he is in a position where he is as free as he's ever been to say what Stephen A. wants to say about anyone he wants to say it about. (I just didn't see what Kryrie was saying matched up with SAS's response, like a sentence was missing or left out.) But what you are saying is SAS's not quite there yet given there is an untouchable's list. Hence Kryrie's Puppet/Puppet Master comments. Did I read between the lines there correctly? I wasn't sure on the Kryrie reference.

db

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon May 02, 2022 9:54 am

While I don’t know every case, Stephen A is justified to rip Kyrie, Ben Simmons, John Wall, etc. He may bring attention and ratings to his company, but he and the company also praise legitimate and report great sports stories too. A lot of these bad apples are gaming the system and should at least be called out on it. Embarrassing and bad for the game when they can get away with it.

by **Ktron** Mon May 02, 2022 5:52 pm

willjr wrote:As some may remember from Super Bowl LII, I am a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan. I am a member/poster of an Eagles forum much like this one. We recently had a topic that dealt with the plethora of “debate” sports talk shows. Stephen A. and Colin Cowherd in particular. The following was my contribution to the discussion:
I think he’s a clown, a wannabe Jim Rome, who i also think is a clown. But to be honest I haven’t watched or listened to those types of shows for years. To me all of it and all of them (Stephen A. Bayless) are flip* formulaic, scripted verbal sewage. Loudmouths “I told you so’s” I have better and more interesting things to do (watching paint dry, or grass grow) than to let that inane balderdash clutter even 1% of my thought processes. It is not just limited to sports. I feel the same way about the political talking heads and the “entertainment/celebrity” crap also.
As far as Cowherd is concerned, I stopped listening to that asshole after Sean Taylor was killed. Immediately after the story broke this idiot gets on the air and doesn’t speculate but proclaims that it sounds like a love triangle thing. The fact that he was shot in the groin proves that it was most probably an affair gone bad and a woman scorned. He was still at ESPN then. How flip* reckless and irresponsible could him and that shitty network be? After the truth came out, there was no word of retraction or apology from Sherlock Holmes about the idiotic crap he said.

Addendum: I am not at all into censorship or judgement. There is obviously a huge market and demand for those type of shows. Just because it’s not my cup of tea doesn’t mean that millions of others don’t enjoy them.
My views are just that. I cast no aspersions on what anyone else finds entertaining.
I’m a 58 year old black man who has probably owned or read over 30 books on the subject of World War II Eastern (Russian) front battles and first person accounts. I’m sure that is a tiny demographic but that’s my thing. I am also sure way more people get off on sports talk than reading about 80 year old carnage and atrocities. As I said it’s my thing but I know it’s not everyone’s. So, member’s, don’t take my stance on those shows and personalities as a criticism of any of you. To each his own, different strokes for different folks, live and let live.

Great points. BTW, in my opinion the History of WW II Eastern and others are far more important on the scale of life than any damn sporting event. Its just not fun. Sports is real life fantasy, some people think they can’t live without it. Well, the Pandemic should provide enough proof of how all of this so called Fun can come to a screeching halt.
I don’t mind talk shows be it sports or political but like you I have no use for the formulaic scripted, staged “debates” and hot takes. For me its irritating and unnecessary. I brought up Dan Patrick who I have great admiration for. He’s living proof that all of the theatrics and BS is just that, BS. He has great ratings, makes lots of money and owns his own show.
I may have posted this before but i think its worthy of a reminder.
I worked for a VP/General Manager of a radio station In Savannah, Ga. That same VP formally worked at the radio station where Rush Limbaugh got his start. He told me that when they hired Rush, he was very liberal and soft spoken. It wasn’t until later on another station he discovered that hot takes and controversy pays the buck he decided to change his formula. I cant speak for what kind of person he may or may not ended up being or may have eventually turned him into but for sure most of his verbiage and hot takes was for years an act and was not who he was when he began. Sean Hannity is another story for another time but I also have had first hand interactions with him. Its the BS that unfortunately sells right now. The problem is that too many viewers and listeners are believing it.

by **Ktron** Mon May 02, 2022 6:52 pm

dbrown4 wrote:All great points, Ktron. I appreciate the time and effort you put into responding. I really appreciate your chosen career path and us having someone with a media background on as a regular poster on this site. What you've written above is priceless. Thank you.

I've said a couple of times Stephen A. is the "E" in ESPN. He is Entertaining. He's loud. He's obnoxious at times. But he's excited about what he does for a living. It's difficult not to watch someone like that. There are few people who love what they do for a living and get paid for it. You might even say SAS is doing what he loves and it's not even work to him. He's like one of those music boxes back in the day where you had to wind it up via hand crank to get started, then it goes on for hours!

But he's not the top dog which means he eventually has to answer to someone or somebody or some entity. And if those somebody's are letting him run roughshod over whomever is on a short list and then there's a secret list (maybe not so secret. Who's on the untouchable list, BTW?) that has people that cannot be touched, then everyone at ESPN is to blame.

Maybe Elon Musk should buy Disney/ESPN next after Twitter, expose and/or can those responsible for zipping up free speech and open all the air waves there as well. Doesn't sound like total, uninhibited free speech is being practiced at Disney either.

SAS's comment this week now makes more sense in light of what you are saying in that he stated he is in a position where he is as free as he's ever been to say what Stephen A. wants to say about anyone he wants to say it about. (I just didn't see what Kryrie was saying matched up with SAS's response, like a sentence was missing or left out.) But what you are saying is SAS's not quite there yet given there is an untouchable's list. Hence Kryrie's Puppet/Puppet Master comments. Did I read between the lines there correctly? I wasn't sure on the Kryrie reference.

db

Thanks DB. You’re correct. Stephen A is excited and loves what he does for a living. He can be difficult watch if one doesn't care for his act.
DB, Most people working on and off air in media love what they do. Most folks are not paid the kind of money that Stephen A, Bayless or Howard Stern are paid. You’d be surprised. Hell, I once worked 2 years at a station for zero dollars and zero cents. Just an occasional free concert ticket or a pass to a sporting event and maybe a promo copy of an Album was all I got but I loved everything about what I was doing. Its not always about the money. Sure I eventually made a little but i wasn’t any more happier at what I did when I made zero.
When I referred to ‘favorite sons” or untouchables at ESPN i cant tell you who they all are specifically. I certainly don't know. I. Do know that what ESPN does not want is the smoke from certain individuals or specific parties. I’m sure there is policy but no standing policy. There is no posted list that i know of that talent are aware of. Talent doesn't know until they are told after the fact and are reprimanded or suspended. The network is not attached to any specific political party of leanings. As I said, they don't want the smoke. Brand reputation is a major concern. Stephen A has been suspended before and most recently got a slap on the wrist and had to issue an on air apology for his comments regarding Japanese pitcher Shohei Ohtani. Jemelle Hill was suspended over her comments regarding Donald Trump. So you see, there’s no rhyme or reason, it depends on who it is and when it is. No. Stephen A or anyone else on that network has no free license to say anything they want. I hope that provides more clarity. As far as uninhibited free speech. I’m not sure what you mean. I do know that saying anything about anybody is not uninhibited free speech. That cannot be allowed and it has nothing to do with free speech.
Stephen A has the trust of his superiors but he still has to run things through them so is that really control?
I cant and wouldn't dare speak for Kyrie but based on his “Puppet master” comment I’m pretty sure that he too is talking about the powers that be that run the networks and the puppets are the Stephen A’s of the world.

Quote “ I send shots at the puppet masters , not the puppets. All puppets do is run around society, trying to gain popularity and stage opinions. What a life”
I cant believe i just quoted Kyrie. Damn damn damn. Lol

by **willjr** Mon May 02, 2022 7:58 pm

Ktron, thanks for the kind words. I’ve really enjoyed reading and learning from your posts, not just on basketball and the Celtics, but on your experiences and views on the effects of mass media, both the informative and the insidious. My absolute favorite thing about this forum is the wealth of knowledge here. The extraordinary variety of life and work experience of the posters here. The main reason I soured on and stopped watching those shows were, for me, there was nothing to be learned from them. 2 or more adults yelling about how infallible they are. Yet when their prophecies prove to be wrong, there is usually mass amnesia or “alternate facts”. Or some lame half hearted mea culpa which usually involves the athlete’s failure to meet the host expectations, not the hosts inane proclamations. Personally I found it all boring and disingenuous. Not at all about the competitors or the competition unless it was to character assassinate a player or coach who dared to make the omnipotent sage pre game proclamations look bad. The “debates” become all about ego gratification and “even on the rare occasions that I’m wrong, I’m actually right” infallibility of the host because remember, I, not you, gets the last word, it’s my show! Next week’s local forecast calls for rain, think I’ll sit on the porch and watch the grass grow. Maybe I can talk my wife into painting the kitchen, watching it dry will for me be more stimulating and entertaining than anything Stephen A, Skip, Colin, or Nick Wright (Wrong?) will say.
Okay guys, rants over and soapbox is put away for later use. Let’s even this thing up tomorrow night…GO CELTICS!!!
BTW, I am also a fan of Dan Patrick. I see him as a real journalist, while the aforementioned are also journalists, they’ve decided that for fame, fortune, or both they’d rather be hucksters or carnival barkers. Stephen A. reportedly makes 10 million a year, Skip 7-8 million. Carnival barking pays damn well!

by **Ktron** Mon May 02, 2022 9:19 pm

willjr wrote:Ktron, thanks for the kind words. I’ve really enjoyed reading and learning from your posts, not just on basketball and the Celtics, but on your experiences and views on the effects of mass media, both the informative and the insidious. My absolute favorite thing about this forum is the wealth of knowledge here. The extraordinary variety of life and work experience of the posters here. The main reason I soured on and stopped watching those shows were, for me, there was nothing to be learned from them. 2 or more adults yelling about how infallible they are. Yet when their prophecies prove to be wrong, there is usually mass amnesia or “alternate facts”. Or some lame half hearted mea culpa which usually involves the athlete’s failure to meet the host expectations, not the hosts inane proclamations. Personally I found it all boring and disingenuous. Not at all about the competitors or the competition unless it was to character assassinate a player or coach who dared to make the omnipotent sage pre game proclamations look bad. The “debates” become all about ego gratification and “even on the rare occasions that I’m wrong, I’m actually right” infallibility of the host because remember, I, not you, gets the last word, it’s my show! Next week’s local forecast calls for rain, think I’ll sit on the porch and watch the grass grow. Maybe I can talk my wife into painting the kitchen, watching it dry will for me be more stimulating and entertaining than anything Stephen A, Skip, Colin, or Nick Wright (Wrong?) will say.
Okay guys, rants over and soapbox is put away for later use. Let’s even this thing up tomorrow night…GO CELTICS!!!
BTW, I am also a fan of Dan Patrick. I see him as a real journalist, while the aforementioned are also journalists, they’ve decided that for fame, fortune, or both they’d rather be hucksters or carnival barkers. Stephen A. reportedly makes 10 million a year, Skip 7-8 million. Carnival barking pays damn well!

Thanks Will. Imagine making $10 mil and than having it snatched from you because you went too far on one of your ego driven rants? That can happen so quickly. Stephen A brags about his contract being guaranteed. Good for him. Bad for him, The business has shrunk mainly due to the 96 telecom bill. There’s fewer places to go. If you get booted out of ESPN, if you’re lucky there’s one or two other places one can go and be at that same level. Thats it. The clown acts works long enough until a bigger clown comes along and makes you expendable. Stephen A does have talent so doesn’t Cowherd but they’re more famous for their loud mouths and hot takes. Nick “not so Wright” is a mouthy little know nothing with hot takes and the latest flavor of the month. Trash. There are very few like Dan Patrick and the late Stuart Scott getting the chance to ascend without a clown nose and oversized shoes. Also, don't look now but have you noticed that they’re hiring more and more retired players to fill slots? I’m not mad at that because at least they know what they’re talking about but even some of those are being fitted for a clown suit. Its crazy. Right Scal?

by **dbrown4** Tue May 03, 2022 7:24 am

Oh yeah, the pay scale is very much like the NBA's just at astronomically different levels and more commas. There are a few making tons and the rest minimum wage or (in the NBA they call it the Vet Minimum) in some cases nothing via an internship or whatever is available just to get ones feet wet to see if this is a career they really want to pursue.

I wasn't going to mention Stephen A.'s past faux pas's but greed and hubris eventually catch up with people in high places having great responsibility. I know from personal experience and the result is typically not good. There's always a fence or line in the sand and you keep pushing right up to it, then dangle your foot over it, quickly tap the other side with your foot and when you realize you still incorrectly believe no one is looking, you jump completely over the fence/line with both feet and that becomes your normal. Then you get caught/fired/divorced/arrested...whatever the extent of your offense. That's when you get caught with your pants down and come up with all the excuses and look defensive which only digs your grave deeper, which is where the 5th Amendment can and should help you out!

But I digress, however regarding Stephen A.'s comment about 'I'm freer than I have ever been to say blah, blah, blah'...something close to that, back at Kryrie, SAS was seeming to imply that he has more control that he (SAS) thinks he has more speech freedom than Kryrie believes he has. Given SAS's past stumbles, Kryrie may get the last laugh as SAS's may again be on the verge of blowing himself up if he keeps making a point and won't back down and/or end the argument once and for all.

And while we live in a country where there is freedom of speech, the operative phrase not written in but read between the lines is ...without consequence. We are free here to say anything we want, but not without consequence. That's why more organized debates with rules and decorum are the preferred norm. Everyone can say what they want, get their point across and not lose their jobs/family/wealth, etc. But go beyond that, any you're messing with fire.

Make no mistake, Stephen A. is up around the fence. While the Dan Patrick's of the world are far from the fence getting their point across just fine taking far less risk in their delivery. I don't know exactly where SAS's foot is relative to the fence but I know one of them is off the ground.

When I was in the financial, soft security world, there was a term actually coming out of modern portfolio theory at the time that gained steam. Northwest Quadrant. That's where you wanted your portfolio's (assets) performance to be. You wanted to have a portfolio of financial assets that delivered you great returns but without a lot of risk based upon your station in life. I know, I'm violating the no math rule, but if you had Risk on the X-axis and Return on the Y-axis and you drew a cross in the X>0, Y>0 section or quadrant, you create 4 boxes.

Dan Patrick's delivery, if you'd convert the above to the media world, would be in the Northwest quadrant. High Return, Low Risk. Dan Patrick is not in any risk of blowing up his job by what he espouses on a regular daily basis, for example. But he's getting his point across to a captive audience.

Stephen A. would be more than likely be in the High Risk, High Return or Northeast Quadrant. Ktron perfectly highlighted these two scenarios. The message is heard and delivered. Just executed by two totally different types of delivery. And people gravitate to one or the other or both based upon their respective tastes/likes/dislikes.

But with the more risk(s) you take, the more consequences come with that. Stephen A. takes those risks and sometimes loses his job and blows himself up. He's evidently more comfortable getting he style of message out there and willing to take that (those) risk(s) on a grand stage.

Now I don't know what we've done to get to the point where Ktron is quoting Kryrie!! haha At least, Ktron quickly took a step back and acknowledged/recognized it before the rest of us jumped all over him!! Self deprecation is always a great way to keep critics at bay. Pretty sure that tactic is not in Stephen A.'s arsenal! Good debate, guys and gal.

db

by **Ktron** Tue May 03, 2022 1:35 pm

Cant disagree with much of anything here. I will say that Stephen A is very talented and a very good writer. I have seen him get his point across without all the theatrics. That works for me but I also understand what you’re saying. There are lots of folks that gravitate toward the other approach and he super is serving them.
I get it. Dislike it but totally get it.
Now, his going after players and threatening certain players is something he gets away with. Again but thats only specific players that management looks the other way on. Let me put it another way, If Scott Van Pelt went after the Kyrie’s, KD’s and the Ben Simmons’ like Stephen A does, there is a good portion of the audience that would not tolerate that from him but do when Stephen A does it… I don’t think I need to spell it out. Hopefully you get me drift. Thats where he’s actually being used as a tool. On the flip side, the powers that be will only let him go so far with others like Peyton Manning.
You might point out, “ he went off when the Nets hired Steve Nash and said he wasn’t qualified and that there was a hint of racism behind the hiring and he wasn’t slapped on the hand for that”. If ESPN went after him for that it would have created an even bigger conundrum. Black folks more than likely backing Stephen A’s premise while many White folks would call bullsh**t on the other side. ESPN does not want that kind of smoke. It escalates from a controversial comment to a major issue that lingers so they basically let it be said and let it die.
It can get complicated but as I said some athletes are free game for Stephen A to attack and they allow it. His summation is that he’s freer to say whatever he wants when in actuality he is not. It’s ridiculous.

by **dbrown4** Tue May 03, 2022 5:56 pm

Steve Nash was a completely idiotic hire and it all exploded in BKN's face in R1. He clearly wasn't the most qualified for the job. He wasn't even qualified for the job. I'm pretty sure that has never been done and never will be done in the NBA in that they hired a coach with NO coaching experience. Zero. BKN got what they paid for. I'm surprised he still hasn't been canned yet. His holding a head coaching position is an embarrassment to the league and to all the other coaches who, hey, worked their way up to those positions. I'd lead the charge and fire myself before I get the pink slip.

I don't know if the Steve Nash hire had anything to do with racism, cronyism, good ol' boy network or whatever. It simply falls under the category of the most stupid, idiotic move ever made in the NBA. And it's still lingering.

But that's ok. When Kryrie and KD sit down with management in a couple of weeks or whenever, they will will get this all straightened out following the LeBron De Facto LAL GM Model. Yeah, second verse same as the first. Can't wait to see this play out. There really are some stupid people in this world and a good portion of them have wound up in BKN and LA. That's great news for us and Boston. Maybe next season BKN and LAL will flip. LAL will come in as the 7th or 8th seed, get swept and BKN will miss the playoffs completely. Given all the inaction so far, this is looking like a VERY safe all-in bet!

db

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