PLAYOFFS 2023 POST GAME PHILLY 76'ERS GAME 4 - AWAY

Shamrock1000 wrote:I've been mostly defending Joe, and I still think he must be a decent coach since the Celtics had a pretty good season overall. The thing that worries me though, is that I'm afraid his refusal to call timeouts has turned into a type of stubbornness, like - "nobody is going to tell me how to coach". If he's letting perception affect his decision making in anyway, then that's a problem.

Celtics also need to keep Brown involved in Crunch time. Seems like Smart or JT had the ball for all of crunch time.

He’s already said he likes what he’s doing and that’s the problem in and of itself. In the 76 year history of the NBA there is no precedent or evidence that what he is doing works to win games. If it did, everybody would be already doing it, right. Stubborn or just plain off … I defended him too but enough is enough. In the regular season he said he does this in part to get the players more situationally involved, raise their bball IQ, etc. He also said that after timeouts sometimes the other team expands their lead so timeouts don’t always work. You want a coach who goes against all precedent for those reasons? And in the playoffs?

By the way in today’s presser, Mazzulla admitted to his mistake and said he should have called a time out to give the team a chance for two shots (ie, if the first was a miss) either through a rebound or quick foul. Ya think

Ktron wrote:
Marcus got a clean look but it wasn't during the game.
The game was over before he hoisted it.

Please look at the shot by Marcus at the end of regulation. You are talking about OT.

Marcus Smart is 14th on the team in shooting percentage and 10th in 3 point percentage. Brogden is 5th in shooting percentage and 3d in three point percentage. Begs the question, at the end of the game, who's calling the shots? Literally.

Bing Bang

As I said I would rather see Brogdon taking that shot, but Smart didn’t hesitate and stepped up and shot both shots with confidence. He had a clean look in regulation it didn’t go down and the other shot was a split second late. That’s not why we lost. We played horrible for three quarters and let PJ Tucker get a key rebound, put back and an one. Jaylen blew his assignment and let Harden get a three, up 2. Stop blaming Marcus and Coach Joe. The ball didn’t bounce our way at the end. Harden misses that shot, Coach Joe looks good.

Coach Joe blew the last play in not calling a time out as he has now admitted. Marcus should be out and Brogdon in on the last offensive possession; 10% differential in their three point shooting percentage. That’s also on the coach or Brad or whoever is scheming up last plays. I have defended the coach when it’s not his fault which is most of the time but yesterday he blew it.

We're all missing what Coach Joe said.  These playoffs are a learning experience.  He did not exclude himself from those lessons.  

Add another thing champions do to my list...they are accountable.  Let's move on.  

While this series should be over even by Philly fans best analysis and estimation, it's 2-2, not 1-3 or over for us.  It's 2-2 with two games at home for us if we need them both.  PHI will not be winning another game on our court, that I can assure you.  

Team will conquer individual accolades. If it doesn't, then the NBA should go to a league of 2-3 man teams. We are a far better team than PHI. It's not even close.

db

CJ now admits that he should have called a timeout.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37570895/joe-mazzulla-called-celtics-final-possession

He is still in a learning curve and we can only hope that each game adds another layer of experience that impacts his coaching decisions and game management protocols.

When you consider all of the close games we have lost this year including OT games, Joe should lean heavily on due diligence when in doubt.

So for all that thought originally he was right, you don’t need a time out; well apparently your in the minority and even if just so they can catch their breath, it’s always been a good thing. KC Jones and Phil Jackson used time outs and they had the best closers.

NYCelt wrote:Woulda, shoulda, coulda...

So do we blame Joe, Tatum, Jaylen or Smart?

Did all chip in with a move we can second guess? Sure. All also contributed big positives. I'm not here to level criticism at any of them.

The apparent elephant in the room that no one outside of Eastern Pennsylvania wants to address is that the 6ers had the lead most of the game and never got far behind because they have a damn strong lineup. The series is tied because Philly's playoff rotation is in many ways Boston's equal. I read opinions here and elsewhere that Harden was done and Embiid's knee was going to drop him down several notches. Wrong and wrong.

We're playing a lineup that, like ours, is among the best when healthy. It's a tough series following a challenging first round against a surprising Atlanta team that was on the upswing in talent and momentum.

It's now at most a three game deal with the possibility of two at home. That improves the odds. I still like our chances.

You win as a team  and you lose as a team.  A one point loss will always stimulate more chatter.
In the end, the Celtics accomplished what they absolutely had to.  They got their split on the road and are heading home after taking back the home court advantage in game 3.

If we had somehow managed to win that game by 1 point I am certain that there would still be a few rounds of criticism.

cowens/oldschool wrote:So for all that thought originally he was right, you don’t need a time out; well apparently your in the minority and even if just so they can catch their breath, it’s always been a good thing. KC Jones and Phil Jackson used time outs and they had the best closers.

Cow

Here is a question for you going into game 5. It seemed to me that the Celtics got caught a few too many times in no man's land. They were worried about Embid and clogged up the paint but also gave up open perimeter shots.

Should they focus more on guarding the perimeter players by limiting their opportunities to score.
For example, the best way to play Harden is to defend him before he gets the ball. Embid is going to get his. The main thing is to not give him and one opportunities. Fouls should be used to stop him from putting the ball in the basket.

dbrown4 wrote:We're all missing what Coach Joe said.  These playoffs are a learning experience.  He did not exclude himself from those lessons.  

Add another thing champions do to my list...they are accountable.  Let's move on.  

While this series should be over even by Philly fans best analysis and estimation, it's 2-2, not 1-3 or over for us.  It's 2-2 with two games at home for us if we need them both.  PHI will not be winning another game on our court, that I can assure you.  

Team will conquer individual accolades.  If it doesn't, then the NBA should go to a league of 2-3 man teams.  We are a far better team than PHI.  It's not even close.  

db

This is a clear and factual statement. No debate here.

Celtics17 wrote:Bing Bang

As I said I would rather see Brogdon taking that shot, but Smart didn’t hesitate and stepped up and shot both shots with confidence. He had a clean look in regulation it didn’t go down and the other shot was a split second late. That’s not why we lost. We played horrible for three quarters and let PJ Tucker get a key rebound, put back and an one. Jaylen blew his assignment and let Harden get a three, up 2. Stop blaming Marcus and Coach Joe. The ball didn’t bounce our way at the end. Harden misses that shot, Coach Joe looks good.

Spot on.

Amen.

One positive - it was clear to me that Embiid wanted no part of clutch-time expectations or decisions. He has a tendency to wilt or defer when the lights are brightest.

dboss wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:So for all that thought originally he was right, you don’t need a time out; well apparently your in the minority and even if just so they can catch their breath, it’s always been a good thing. KC Jones and Phil Jackson used time outs and they had the best closers.

Cow

Here is a question for you going into game 5.  It seemed to me that the Celtics got caught a few too many times in no man's land.  They were worried about Embid and clogged up the paint but also gave up  open perimeter shots.

Should they focus more on guarding the perimeter players by limiting their opportunities to score.  
For example, the best way to play Harden is to defend him before he gets the ball.  Embid is going to get his.  The main thing is to not give him and one opportunities.  Fouls should be used to stop him from putting the ball in the basket.  

Well our 4th quarter defense was stellar and had some great swarming, I would mix it up to keep them off balance. When you have double bigs, Rob and Al control the paint; when have one of them probably easier to harass the perimeter. Love the way Tatum has been boarding and defending and how amazing is Al? Need a big game from Timelord too….15 rebounds

Here's another thing.  Ime was a first year head coach going into last season.  I don't recall even half the scrutiny on him as we're putting on Coach Joe as another 1st year head coach.  Either during the season but especially in the playoffs.  Not only from us but the media as well.  Wazzupwitdat?!! Only difference I can see is his age. DOH!!

db

P.S. Let's re-define brain fart. A brain fart is a move (or group of moves) by a player or coach or a play that results in a loss in the playoffs. We've had 2 so far. We really only get one more or our season is over. I don't have to read the Other Side Comments to know that PHI fans know they are exponentially fortunate this series is not over already. Each night they are BEGGING someone not named Embiid to step consistently. They're not going to win any series under those circumstances. (Neither will PHX for that matter.) They'll take it, but they are some of the most brutally honest fans in the NBA. Now if they win tonight, we won't be able to contain them anymore. So please Boston, for all of us and all humanity, shutthemtheHellup and begin the wrapping us process tonight!!! No more drama!! No lose G5 to come back and win G6 & G7!!! Just WIN!!!! Show up like you did in ATL for G6, then go to PHI and wrap it up on their homecourt. You are the FAR BETTER TEAM. That is a fact, flaws and all.

NYCelt wrote:Woulda, shoulda, coulda...

So do we blame Joe, Tatum, Jaylen or Smart?

Did all chip in with a move we can second guess? Sure. All also contributed big positives. I'm not here to level criticism at any of them.

The apparent elephant in the room that no one outside of Eastern Pennsylvania wants to address is that the 6ers had the lead most of the game and never got far behind because they have a damn strong lineup. The series is tied because Philly's playoff rotation is in many ways Boston's equal. I read opinions here and elsewhere that Harden was done and Embiid's knee was going to drop him down several notches. Wrong and wrong.

We're playing a lineup that, like ours, is among the best when healthy. It's a tough series following a challenging first round against a surprising Atlanta team that was on the upswing in talent and momentum.

It's now at most a three game deal with the possibility of two at home. That improves the odds. I still like our chances.

Ny,
If I’m not mistaken and correct me if I’m wrong, you’ve indicated that you do or have coached baseball.
My question is, when your guys lose a game do you analyze what went wrong and right and address those issues?
If a coaching decision that you made comes into question, how do you respond.
I’m asking these questions out of respect because I’m curious.
There were decisions made in game 4 that come into question but I get the impression that it’s not ok with you that folks question and may be critical of various decisions or strategies and should instead just shrug our shoulders and say, “oh, well”.
I could be way off here and if so please grab the wheel and stir me in the right direction.

I have to disagree with your assessment that Philly’s rotation is in many ways Boston’s equal. With the exception of Embiid at center The Celts are far more the superior team. IMHO.

Also, personally at the age of 33, I don’t think Harden is done but he’s had 2 great games and 2 horrible games so I’d say he’s half baked at best. :-)

dboss wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Woulda, shoulda, coulda...

So do we blame Joe, Tatum, Jaylen or Smart?

Did all chip in with a move we can second guess? Sure. All also contributed big positives. I'm not here to level criticism at any of them.

The apparent elephant in the room that no one outside of Eastern Pennsylvania wants to address is that the 6ers had the lead most of the game and never got far behind because they have a damn strong lineup. The series is tied because Philly's playoff rotation is in many ways Boston's equal. I read opinions here and elsewhere that Harden was done and Embiid's knee was going to drop him down several notches. Wrong and wrong.

We're playing a lineup that, like ours, is among the best when healthy. It's a tough series following a challenging first round against a surprising Atlanta team that was on the upswing in talent and momentum.

It's now at most a three game deal with the possibility of two at home. That improves the odds. I still like our chances.

You win as a team  and you lose as a team.  A one point loss will always stimulate more chatter.
In the end, the Celtics accomplished what they absolutely had to.  They got their split on the road and are heading home after taking back the home court advantage in game 3.

If we had somehow managed to win that game by 1 point I am certain that there would still be a few rounds of criticism.

I never understood the concept of being ‘satisfied’ with a split on the road. Teams try to win every game. A loss is never in accomplishment in my Weekly Reader.

prakash wrote:

Ktron wrote:
Marcus got a clean look but it wasn't during the game.
The game was over before he hoisted it.

Please look at the shot by Marcus at the end of regulation.  You are talking about OT.

I misunderstood. You’re right. But I wasn’t referring to that shot. The one in OT.

dbrown4 wrote:We're all missing what Coach Joe said.  These playoffs are a learning experience.  He did not exclude himself from those lessons.  

Add another thing champions do to my list...they are accountable.  Let's move on.  

While this series should be over even by Philly fans best analysis and estimation, it's 2-2, not 1-3 or over for us.  It's 2-2 with two games at home for us if we need them both.  PHI will not be winning another game on our court, that I can assure you.  

Team will conquer individual accolades.  If it doesn't, then the NBA should go to a league of 2-3 man teams.  We are a far better team than PHI.  It's not even close.  

db

Of course. Regardless of what line of work you’re in, you’re always learning.
I went to Graham Jr. College and the motto was “Learn By Doing”.
That was college, not a job. There’s different levels of learning. I’m curious as to what level Joe is on.

Ktron wrote:

dbrown4 wrote:We're all missing what Coach Joe said.  These playoffs are a learning experience.  He did not exclude himself from those lessons.  

Add another thing champions do to my list...they are accountable.  Let's move on.  

While this series should be over even by Philly fans best analysis and estimation, it's 2-2, not 1-3 or over for us.  It's 2-2 with two games at home for us if we need them both.  PHI will not be winning another game on our court, that I can assure you.  

Team will conquer individual accolades.  If it doesn't, then the NBA should go to a league of 2-3 man teams.  We are a far better team than PHI.  It's not even close.  

db

Of course. Regardless of what line of work you’re in, you’re always learning.
I went to Graham Jr. College and the motto was “Learn By Doing”.
That was college, not a job. There’s different levels of learning. I’m curious as to what level Joe is on.

After so many credible analysts and press members called out the coaching mistake he was forced to admit it and using “20/20 hindsight” make it a learning opportunity. Game 4 -divisional playoffs learning in the job - after first saying it was the right call, to keep some measure of credibility he had to confess the next day. Most NBA coaches don’t make that mistake and most own up to it immediately if they do. I defended him before and of course wish him nothing but the best going forward; but you know, he needs to be better / pretty simple.

ktron

I never understood the concept of being ‘satisfied’ with a split on the road. Teams try to win every game. A loss is never in accomplishment in my Weekly Reader.

A 3-1 advantage would have been great for the Celtics.  That did not happen but the Celtics regained the home court advantage.  

No one is satisfied, certainly not me.  All losses are bad but again they did split on the road.  Who suggested that a loss is an accomplishment?

A good perspective to consider when it comes to the ups and downs of a playoff series, would be remember our 2008 championship playoff run.

The Celtics went 7 game to beat the Hawks in round 1 and 7 vs the Cavs to win in round 2.  The Pistons and the Lakers were both 6 game series won by Boston

The playoff record was 16-10.

A loss tonight at home in game 5 would provide plenty of anguish. I am looking for the Celtics to win game 5.

dbrown4 wrote:Here's another thing.  Ime was a first year head coach going into last season.  I don't recall even half the scrutiny on him as we're putting on Coach Joe as another 1st year head coach.  Either during the season but especially in the playoffs.  Not only from us but the media as well.  Wazzupwitdat?!!  Only difference I can see is his age.  DOH!!

db
P.S.  Let's re-define brain fart.  A brain fart is a move (or group of moves) by a player or coach or a play that results in a loss in the playoffs.  We've had 2 so far.  We really only get one more or our season is over.  I don't have to read the Other Side Comments to know that PHI fans know they are exponentially fortunate this series is not over already.  Each night they are BEGGING someone not named Embiid to step consistently.  They're not going to win any series under those circumstances.  (Neither will PHX for that matter.)  They'll take it, but they are some of the most brutally honest fans in the NBA.  Now if they win tonight, we won't be able to contain them anymore.  So please Boston, for all of us and all humanity, shutthemtheHellup and begin the wrapping us process tonight!!!  No more drama!!  No lose G5 to come back and win G6 & G7!!!  Just WIN!!!!  Show up like you did in ATL for G6, then go to PHI and wrap it up on their homecourt.  You are the FAR BETTER TEAM.  That is a fact, flaws and all.      

No db its none of the above. Ime was a lead assistant in SA, Philly, and Brooklyn, He also played in the NBA.
Joe does not have near the year and experience that Ime had/has on any level.

The only similarities is that Boston was both coaches first NBA head coaching job.

BingBang! wrote:

Ktron wrote:

dbrown4 wrote:We're all missing what Coach Joe said.  These playoffs are a learning experience.  He did not exclude himself from those lessons.  

Add another thing champions do to my list...they are accountable.  Let's move on.  

While this series should be over even by Philly fans best analysis and estimation, it's 2-2, not 1-3 or over for us.  It's 2-2 with two games at home for us if we need them both.  PHI will not be winning another game on our court, that I can assure you.  

Team will conquer individual accolades.  If it doesn't, then the NBA should go to a league of 2-3 man teams.  We are a far better team than PHI.  It's not even close.  

db

Of course. Regardless of what line of work you’re in, you’re always learning.
I went to Graham Jr. College and the motto was “Learn By Doing”.
That was college, not a job. There’s different levels of learning. I’m curious as to what level Joe is on.

After so many credible analysts and press members called out the coaching mistake he was forced to admit it and using “20/20 hindsight” make it a learning opportunity. Game 4 -divisional playoffs learning in the job - after first saying it was the right call, to keep some measure of credibility he had to confess the next day. Most NBA coaches don’t make that mistake and most own up to it immediately if they do. I defended him before and of course wish him nothing but the best going forward; but you know, he needs to be better / pretty simple.

Yes indeed. And,its a good thing he’s not an airline pilot.

dboss wrote:ktron

I never understood the concept of being ‘satisfied’ with a split on the road. Teams try to win every game. A loss is never in accomplishment in my Weekly Reader.

A 3-1 advantage would have been great for the Celtics.  That did not happen but the Celtics regained the home court advantage.  

No one is satisfied, certainly not me.  All losses are bad but again they did split on the road.  Who suggested that a loss is an accomplishment?

A good perspective to consider when it comes to the ups and downs of a playoff series, would be remember our 2008 championship playoff run.

The Celtics went 7 game to beat the Hawks in round 1 and 7 vs the Cavs to win in round 2.  The Pistons and the Lakers were both 6 game series won by Boston

The playoff record was 16-10.

A loss tonight at home in game 5 would provide plenty of anguish. I am looking for the Celtics to win game 5.

\

Dboss, I’m referring to the “the Celts accomplished what the had to do