PLAYOFFS 2023 POST GAME PHILLY 76'ERS GAME 4 - AWAY

Ktron wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Woulda, shoulda, coulda...

So do we blame Joe, Tatum, Jaylen or Smart?

Did all chip in with a move we can second guess? Sure. All also contributed big positives. I'm not here to level criticism at any of them.

The apparent elephant in the room that no one outside of Eastern Pennsylvania wants to address is that the 6ers had the lead most of the game and never got far behind because they have a damn strong lineup. The series is tied because Philly's playoff rotation is in many ways Boston's equal. I read opinions here and elsewhere that Harden was done and Embiid's knee was going to drop him down several notches. Wrong and wrong.

We're playing a lineup that, like ours, is among the best when healthy. It's a tough series following a challenging first round against a surprising Atlanta team that was on the upswing in talent and momentum.

It's now at most a three game deal with the possibility of two at home. That improves the odds. I still like our chances.

Ny,
If I’m not mistaken and correct me if I’m wrong, you’ve indicated that you do or have coached baseball.
My question is, when your guys lose a game do you analyze what went wrong and right and address those issues?
If a coaching decision that you made comes into question, how do you respond.
I’m asking these questions out of respect because I’m curious.
There were decisions made in game 4 that come into question but I get the impression that it’s not ok with you that folks question and may be critical of various decisions or strategies and should instead just shrug our shoulders and say, “oh, well”.
I could be way off here and if so please grab the wheel and stir me in the right direction.

I have to disagree with your assessment that Philly’s rotation is in many ways Boston’s equal. With the exception of Embiid at center The Celts are far more the superior team. IMHO.

Also, personally at the age of 33, I don’t think Harden is done but he’s had 2 great games and 2 horrible games so I’d say he’s half baked at best. :-)

Ktron,

I saw your question earlier, but gave some thought to answering it versus pretending I didn't see it. Why? For fear my answer might offend a lot of people reading it. I thought I might answer in a PM. I feel, however, that you asked a fair question that deserves to be answered publicly. So, with no offense intended to anyone, which is what one says in acknowledging they'll offend at least someone, here goes...

Yes, until just over a year ago, I did coach baseball. It's the sport where I have the most personal playing experience, and the only one where I coached at a high enough level where some of my players are now playing collegiate ball, with one that has been drafted by an MLB team. I also coached youth football and for 2 seasons assisted on an AAU basketball team. Those two were simply youth programs, with no kids beyond freshman high school age. Some of my perspective in how I'm about to answer comes from that, some comes from my own playing days on the diamond.

There were certainly games my teams lost due to decisions I made. Others were lost due to player errors, pun intended. We always went over what went right and wrong. Briefly, immediately post game, and in depth if needed, at practices. I never minded questions on my decisions by parents, especially as we rose to the point of scouts watching and college money riding on the games. If I blew it, I owned up to it. If my strategy failed, but had good reason behind it, I explained it. My blanket policy was always if we won, it was the players, if we lost, it was me. Most of the time, for most players and families, my explanation was sufficient. There were the rare instances when someone couldn't let things go. Those were the ones that didn't understand the game enough to understand why we executed the way we did, or why I made the calls I did. Those were the ones that went on and on, without looking at the entire game for context, just a single move. I did once teach one of the constantly complaining parents a lesson by adding him to the coaching staff in a minor capacity the next year. He quit following one season and apologized for his prior season attitude. No matter the instance, however, I always explained myself directly and without hesitation. There were times I had to re-think my stance over time, and say I made the wrong decision later, but I made sure to have the stones to do so openly.

A great deal of my view also comes from a niche within my business clientele, NCAA coaches. I have one that, hopefully, is about to join an NFL team. You once lived in our area, and know the size of the high school basketball tournament I've helped sponsor for years. Largest tourney of it's kind in the state of NY, outside Manhattan. I've gained a lot of insight from highly successful, long serving coaches there. Finally, I've written here before about my family's relationship with the former Rochester Royals (Sacramento Kings) a former Celtic owner, and a two retired Celtic players who used to live in the area that I won't name, but I'm pretty sure you knew or would have met at some point through your days at WDKX. You talk with all of those folks, you gain a slight if not better view of the extreme in-depth experience they have backing up every move on the field, the court, or the sideline. You also get their reaction to the scrutiny they're under, and how it so often comes from others with no idea of what it took them to get where they are, or were, or how it's seldom a single moment or call, but an entire game of moments and calls that really leads to the final score.

With all of those background influences in mind, and the fact that I have clearly been posting quite a bit about what I feel is the overkill in criticism of Joe Mazzulla, and while we're at it, for those with short memories, similar criticism of Ime Udoka in the past, my answer to you is threefold. 1. It's certainly OK to question and criticize coaching decisions and player performance. You might have noticed in my earlier response I even referred to Mazzulla, Tatum, Brown and Smart being open to post-game second guessing. I just wasn't about to pile it on where we were already hearing about it ad nauseum. It is, after all, what one opens themselves up to when playing on the big stage. 2. I find fans in this and similar forums get carried away with the same, repetitive negativity. For example 'It's the coaches fault we lost because of failure to call a late-game time out.' Yes, could very well be. Also could be from being behind for three quarters and never being able to put together the game needed to pull ahead. And we hear it over and over again. Say it and be done with it. Move on. Low hanging fruit, those criticisms, leveled by everyone from broadcasters to fans because it's simple, takes no deep dissection and also because... 3. Most fans here and elsewhere don't really know enough to question the players and coaches they're watching. Myself included. We have an opinion, without enough knowledge and background in what we're talking about to even think we have any idea of what's going on on the sideline. Yet we delude ourselves into thinking we do.

So it's not that fans shouldn't question, or offer up a critique. That goes with the territory. It's that for too many of us, it gets to be a repeating one-trick pony. With not enough knowledge to back it up, and not having enough background or vision to look at the whole picture.

You asked.

Regards

NYCelt wrote:Woulda, shoulda, coulda...

So do we blame Joe, Tatum, Jaylen or Smart?

Did all chip in with a move we can second guess? Sure. All also contributed big positives. I'm not here to level criticism at any of them.

The apparent elephant in the room that no one outside of Eastern Pennsylvania wants to address is that the 6ers had the lead most of the game and never got far behind because they have a damn strong lineup. The series is tied because Philly's playoff rotation is in many ways Boston's equal. I read opinions here and elsewhere that Harden was done and Embiid's knee was going to drop him down several notches. Wrong and wrong.

We're playing a lineup that, like ours, is among the best when healthy. It's a tough series following a challenging first round against a surprising Atlanta team that was on the upswing in talent and momentum.

It's now at most a three game deal with the possibility of two at home. That improves the odds. I still like our chances.

I’ll go with blaming Udoka. Joe appears to be in over his head, he is learning as he goes along, and probably will be a very good coach in the long run. Unfortunately, we have a team that is undoubtedly ready to win a championship right now; and having a young, unseasoned head coach is not what is needed. The team and front office seems to always have complete faith in Joe, but I think that is just for public consumption.

bobc33 wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Woulda, shoulda, coulda...

So do we blame Joe, Tatum, Jaylen or Smart?

Did all chip in with a move we can second guess? Sure. All also contributed big positives. I'm not here to level criticism at any of them.

The apparent elephant in the room that no one outside of Eastern Pennsylvania wants to address is that the 6ers had the lead most of the game and never got far behind because they have a damn strong lineup. The series is tied because Philly's playoff rotation is in many ways Boston's equal. I read opinions here and elsewhere that Harden was done and Embiid's knee was going to drop him down several notches. Wrong and wrong.

We're playing a lineup that, like ours, is among the best when healthy. It's a tough series following a challenging first round against a surprising Atlanta team that was on the upswing in talent and momentum.

It's now at most a three game deal with the possibility of two at home. That improves the odds. I still like our chances.

I’ll go with blaming Udoka.  Joe appears to be in over his head, he is learning as he goes along, and probably will be a very good coach in the long run.  Unfortunately, we have a team that is undoubtedly ready to win a championship right now; and having a young, unseasoned head coach is not what is needed.  The team and front office seems to always have complete faith in Joe, but I think that is just for public consumption.

+1

Bro you nailed it

NY Celt great post

NYCelt wrote:

Ktron wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Woulda, shoulda, coulda...

So do we blame Joe, Tatum, Jaylen or Smart?

Did all chip in with a move we can second guess? Sure. All also contributed big positives. I'm not here to level criticism at any of them.

The apparent elephant in the room that no one outside of Eastern Pennsylvania wants to address is that the 6ers had the lead most of the game and never got far behind because they have a damn strong lineup. The series is tied because Philly's playoff rotation is in many ways Boston's equal. I read opinions here and elsewhere that Harden was done and Embiid's knee was going to drop him down several notches. Wrong and wrong.

We're playing a lineup that, like ours, is among the best when healthy. It's a tough series following a challenging first round against a surprising Atlanta team that was on the upswing in talent and momentum.

It's now at most a three game deal with the possibility of two at home. That improves the odds. I still like our chances.

Ny,
If I’m not mistaken and correct me if I’m wrong, you’ve indicated that you do or have coached baseball.
My question is, when your guys lose a game do you analyze what went wrong and right and address those issues?
If a coaching decision that you made comes into question, how do you respond.
I’m asking these questions out of respect because I’m curious.
There were decisions made in game 4 that come into question but I get the impression that it’s not ok with you that folks question and may be critical of various decisions or strategies and should instead just shrug our shoulders and say, “oh, well”.
I could be way off here and if so please grab the wheel and stir me in the right direction.

I have to disagree with your assessment that Philly’s rotation is in many ways Boston’s equal. With the exception of Embiid at center The Celts are far more the superior team. IMHO.

Also, personally at the age of 33, I don’t think Harden is done but he’s had 2 great games and 2 horrible games so I’d say he’s half baked at best. :-)

Ktron,

I saw your question earlier, but gave some thought to answering it versus pretending I didn't see it. Why? For fear my answer might offend a lot of people reading it. I thought I might answer in a PM. I feel, however, that you asked a fair question that deserves to be answered publicly. So, with no offense intended to anyone, which is what one says in acknowledging they'll offend at least someone, here goes...

Yes, until just over a year ago, I did coach baseball. It's the sport where I have the most personal playing experience, and the only one where I coached at a high enough level where some of my players are now playing collegiate ball, with one that has been drafted by an MLB team. I also coached youth football and for 2 seasons assisted on an AAU basketball team. Those two were simply youth programs, with no kids beyond freshman high school age. Some of my perspective in how I'm about to answer comes from that, some comes from my own playing days on the diamond.

There were certainly games my teams lost due to decisions I made. Others were lost due to player errors, pun intended. We always went over what went right and wrong. Briefly, immediately post game, and in depth if needed, at practices. I never minded questions on my decisions by parents, especially as we rose to the point of scouts watching and college money riding on the games. If I blew it, I owned up to it. If my strategy failed, but had good reason behind it, I explained it. My blanket policy was always if we won, it was the players, if we lost, it was me. Most of the time, for most players and families, my explanation was sufficient. There were the rare instances when someone couldn't let things go. Those were the ones that didn't understand the game enough to understand why we executed the way we did, or why I made the calls I did. Those were the ones that went on and on, without looking at the entire game for context, just a single move. I did once teach one of the constantly complaining parents a lesson by adding him to the coaching staff in a minor capacity the next year. He quit following one season and apologized for his prior season attitude. No matter the instance, however, I always explained myself directly and without hesitation. There were times I had to re-think my stance over time, and say I made the wrong decision later, but I made sure to have the stones to do so openly.

A great deal of my view also comes from a niche within my business clientele, NCAA coaches. I have one that, hopefully, is about to join an NFL team. You once lived in our area, and know the size of the high school basketball tournament I've helped sponsor for years. Largest tourney of it's kind in the state of NY, outside Manhattan. I've gained a lot of insight from highly successful, long serving coaches there. Finally, I've written here before about my family's relationship with the former Rochester Royals (Sacramento Kings) a former Celtic owner, and a two retired Celtic players who used to live in the area that I won't name, but I'm pretty sure you knew or would have met at some point through your days at WDKX. You talk with all of those folks, you gain a slight if not better view of the extreme in-depth experience they have backing up every move on the field, the court, or the sideline. You also get their reaction to the scrutiny they're under, and how it so often comes from others with no idea of what it took them to get where they are, or were, or how it's seldom a single moment or call, but an entire game of moments and calls that really leads to the final score.

With all of those background influences in mind, and the fact that I have clearly been posting quite a bit about what I feel is the overkill in criticism of Joe Mazzulla, and while we're at it, for those with short memories, similar criticism of Ime Udoka in the past, my answer to you is threefold. 1. It's certainly OK to question and criticize coaching decisions and player performance. You might have noticed in my earlier response I even referred to Mazzulla, Tatum, Brown and Smart being open to post-game second guessing. I just wasn't about to pile it on where we were already hearing about it ad nauseum. It is, after all, what one opens themselves up to when playing on the big stage. 2. I find fans in this and similar forums get carried away with the same, repetitive negativity. For example 'It's the coaches fault we lost because of failure to call a late-game time out.' Yes, could very well be. Also could be from being behind for three quarters and never being able to put together the game needed to pull ahead. And we hear it over and over again. Say it and be done with it. Move on. Low hanging fruit, those criticisms, leveled by everyone from broadcasters to fans because it's simple, takes no deep dissection and also because... 3. Most fans here and elsewhere don't really know enough to question the players and coaches they're watching. Myself included. We have an opinion, without enough knowledge and background in what we're talking about to even think we have any idea of what's going on on the sideline. Yet we delude ourselves into thinking we do.

So it's not that fans shouldn't question, or offer up a critique. That goes with the territory. It's that for too many of us, it gets to be a repeating one-trick pony. With not enough knowledge to back it up, and not having enough background or vision to look at the whole picture.

You asked.

Regards

Ny, thanks for your response. I have a clearer picture of where you’re coming from and a lot of it makes sense.
I gave it more thought and recall I was saying some of the same things your are implying now when people were coming down on Ime. So I get it.
You’re right, most of us don't know enough of what goes on inside the locker room, practices and coaching meetings to fully understand.
I will say I believe that most here are more knowledgeable then what i have seen on other sites. Talk about reactionary? man I cannot believe some of the stuff I read elsewhere.
We have our back and forths but its tame compared to what i have witnessed and i know that was a good reason for why Sam’s was formulated.
It would be ideal if everyone expressed their opinion and moved on but its hard when someone else chimes in and you feel the need to respond to that person and the snowball rolling down hill commences.

I think there is concern thats growing (especially after tonight) regarding coach Joe. He’s in a tough spot.almost a no-win.
He’s gonna get roasted if we don't at least get to the finals and if we do and win it it’ll be because we were supposed to. So he wont get full credit for winning a title. I question some of his strategies but I do think he’s a good coach and can become a great coach. Criticism is going to continue because, well thats what fans do to all coaches. Most of it like with Joe can be unfair.

I didn't know you were that involved in the Rochester area when it comes to sports and tournaments. I do you recall you mentioning some in the past.
My nephew is a promoter from that area and just went into business with some partners who are interested in getting more involved with sports. Maybe something can come of this.
In the meantime…Go Celts..please.