Paul Pierce in Toronto

Hi,
I wouldn't call it post-game thread since it consists just of a question.
Anybody knows if PP is OK? Last night about 2 min before the end of the game he went for a dunk and landed on the wrong foot or something. Then he hobbled to the bench and then to the locker room. I hope - nothing serious.

AK

It doesn't appear to be much. Boston.com didn't say anything about it. ESPN.com mentioned he sprained his ankle and Doc joked with Paul about practice tomorrow (today). After 20 years of making layups and dunks, you would think Paul and KG could handle these situations by now!!

BTW, who is due back next? KG? Perk? West is the furthest out, correct?

dbrown

I'd say KG (but haven't heard much of anything last few days) then West then Perk.

Just my 2 cents and nothing more. I say Perk is out longer as Doc wants to be sure he's as close to right as he can be given the situation.

But once we get EVERYBODY back and reasonably healthy what a loaded gun we will have. A good 2 deep in every position and then some?

Sort of like the US Navy....we can send battleships, carriers or we can send in the destroyers.

beat

The amazing thing is that they have been doing all that short-handed until recently. Doc really deserves COY if they pull all this off. BobHeck was saying (heard) DWest back mid-Jan although it's anyone's guess. Perk, end of Jan at the earliest.

Miami needs to start losing. They still suck. BTW, is Hollenger correct with SAS Home/Away at 21/12? I'm assusming this has something to do with the SA Annual Rodeo coming up, otherwise, their potential chances to lose a few more are coming.

dbrown4 wrote:The amazing thing is that they have been doing all that short-handed until recently. Doc really deserves COY if they pull all this off. BobHeck was saying (heard) DWest back mid-Jan although it's anyone's guess. Perk, end of Jan at the earliest.

Miami needs to start losing. They still suck. BTW, is Hollenger correct with SAS Home/Away at 21/12? I'm assusming this has something to do with the SA Annual Rodeo coming up, otherwise, their potential chances to lose a few more are coming.

21/12 home/away is correct for SA.

dbrown4 wrote:The amazing thing is that they have been doing all that short-handed until recently. Doc really deserves COY if they pull all this off. BobHeck was saying (heard) DWest back mid-Jan although it's anyone's guess. Perk, end of Jan at the earliest.

Miami needs to start losing. They still suck. BTW, is Hollenger correct with SAS Home/Away at 21/12? I'm assusming this has something to do with the SA Annual Rodeo coming up, otherwise, their potential chances to lose a few more are coming.

Watched a little of Miami and Golden State the other eve. At one point in the second quarter GS was 10 for 12 from 3 and up 20ish. Even late in the 1st half they were still up BUT here is where another pet pieve of mine happened. GS was trying to get a 2 for 1 to end the quarter, so they take a forced 3 from on top MISS and then the FOUL Wade for an and ONE. Yeah they got the ball back and then forced another 3 at the horn. so in the final 3o seconds they took two bad shots and allowed Wade to make a three the old way.
Oh well it was Golden State but for a while they had um by the short hairs.
Seems GS was stuck on 72 points for a long time. Better check to see if they scored in the second half.

Miami is winning and playing reasonably well doing it. They still are an outside team that drives and expects to be bailed out when they do. The team that beats them will have an uncanny night from the outside (like GS for a Half) or pound it inside all night long. Problem is there are few teams that have enoguh of an inside to pound it.............and if we are healthy we are definately one of them.

beat

I had an unrelated playoff question. Why do most teams shorten their rotation to 7-8 in the playoffs? I was able to figure out that with a shortened rotation and the same number of fouls, there are fewer players to fouls so foul trouble becomes a bigger issue, but I couldn't figure out why after a season of playing 10-12, most coaches shorten it to 7-8.

dbrown4 wrote:I had an unrelated playoff question. Why do most teams shorten their rotation to 7-8 in the playoffs? I was able to figure out that with a shortened rotation and the same number of fouls, there are fewer players to fouls so foul trouble becomes a bigger issue, but I couldn't figure out why after a season of playing 10-12, most coaches shorten it to 7-8.

I think it is no more complicated than dancin with the girl that you took there. Coaches want their better players out there more of the time than not so some that had been getting 5-6 minutes now get none and those that were getting 10-12 are getting less.

Local Syracuse College Coach Jim Boeheim is notorious for playing only 6-7 deep once the Big East Schedule hits, and he's been pretty successfull doing it for over 25 years.

beat

dbrown4 wrote:I had an unrelated playoff question. Why do most teams shorten their rotation to 7-8 in the playoffs? I was able to figure out that with a shortened rotation and the same number of fouls, there are fewer players to fouls so foul trouble becomes a bigger issue, but I couldn't figure out why after a season of playing 10-12, most coaches shorten it to 7-8.

dbrown,

I'd say it comes down to quality over quantity. We might be happy as hell having a bench deep enough that we can give our top 8 players some rest minutes now, but they're just not as good as the top 8 and the competition is tougher in the playoffs since, by definition, if you're in the playoffs you're a better team. Harangody, who's at the end of the bench, might do an adequate job helping out Davis (who's filling in for KG), but is he better than Davis? When KG comes back and Davis' minutes are no longer a concern, would you still take minutes away from him and give them to Luke?

You want your big guns to be fresh and healthy for the playoffs and, hopefully, still have good playoff seeding when you get there. If the bench helps you get there, they've done their jobs. Then it's up to your playmakers to get you over the finish line.

bob

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Just for the heck of it, I compared the 2008-09 Celtics with the 1962-63 Celtics. Both teams won championships. Both teams played 8 men in double-figure minutes during the regular season. Both teams played 8 men in double figures minutes during the playoffs.

I then looked at the top 10 minutes-getters on each team during the regular season and compared their MPG during the regular season with their MPG during the playoffs. I calculated the absolute differences, meaning that I didn't care whether they were pluses or minuses...they were simply deviations from the regular season figure.

The total deviations in playing time between regular season and playoffs were:
53.5 minutes for the top 10 players of the more recent team and 34.7 minutes for the top 10 players of the older team.

So Red didn't monkey around with his 1962-63 formula as much as Doc did in 2007-08. I have no idea whether it was the plethora of HOF'ers on Red's team (8 plus Sanders and Loscutoff) or simply that teams of that era didn't alter the rotation as much. The greatest deviation in minutes for the 1962-63 team was 5 fewer MPG in the playoffs for KC Jones during what was Cousy's swansong. Eddie and Tony played 12.1 and 14.0 fewer MPG, respectively, in the playoffs than during the regular season.

It might be interesting to do a "then and now" for teams that didn't include 8 future Hall-of-Famers. The candidates for that analysis, of course, would include every other NBA team that ever existed.

Sam

I'm guessing too that if one playoff team says we are going to beat you with our 8 best guys, then everybody has to do it. If you play 10-12, your starters will have no rhythm like the 7-8ers out there playing against you.

The pace/score slows down considerably and the defense picks up, more walking up court but more grind it out play probably doesn't require the full entourage.

Thanks, guys. That was helpful. Just never seemed to make sense. Now it does.

Doesn't it mess with the rotations you were used to during the season? How do teams make that transition or do they just get playoff ready for the last 10 games or so? Especially if you are fighting for the last spot just to get in. Sorry, I should pay more attention. db

Dbrown,

I understand your questions, and I agree with you. I've never seen the sense of deviating from what was good enough to get you there unless injuries arise. Why have a couple of regular season rotation players gathering rust when they might be needed for injury purposes? Do our best players really beat their best players, or is it really our team that beats their team?

Moreover, the playoffs really drain both psychic and physical energy. In addition to playing the same players, Red shuttled them in and out (except for Russell, who was "out" for only 30 seconds per playoff game in the season I examined). Consequently, they were usually fresh; they never had a chance to get out of the flow; and they were able to maintain the pace which made them tops.

That's another paradox. If uptempo basketball can make a difference for a team during the regular season, why the conventional "wisdom" that things must slow down during the playoffs? Who ordained that?

It didn't happen in 1962-63, when the Celtics averaged 118.8 points during the regular season and 118.1 in the playoffs. And I hope no one tries that hackneyed, "It's a different game nowadays" response. That's not a reason; it's a symptom.

Given all the alleged super athletes we hear about today, why does the game have to slow down during the playoffs when the going gets tough? Actually, to say that today's playoff game slows down compared with today's regular season could be considered an oxymoron.

Sam

So, who's going to be that magnificent 8 this year (providing all are healthy)?
My version is:
Shaq
KG
PP
RA
RR
+ DW, Nate, MD, BBD, JON/Perk (depending if Perk is in playoff shape).

But it's 10. Which means that Doc can give breather to all starters at the same time or, slide BBD, JON, Perk in if Shaq/KG get in foul trouble.

AK

sinus007 wrote:So, who's going to be that magnificent 8 this year (providing all are healthy)?
My version is:
Shaq
KG
PP
RA
RR
+ DW, Nate, MD, BBD, JON/Perk (depending if Perk is in playoff shape).

But it's 10. Which means that Doc can give breather to all starters at the same time or, slide BBD, JON, Perk in if Shaq/KG get in foul trouble.

AK

sinus,

Since Shaq and JON are expected to play sub minutes each (20-25) and not starter minutes (30+), I think we can call Shaq+JON/Perk just one player. That takes us down to 9; 4 "starters" and 5-6 subs.

bob

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Brandon Bass, who has started 10 of the last 11 games at power forward for the Magic, might need arthroscopic surgery on his left knee after landing on it awkwardly during Thursday night’s game against New York. Bass warmed up before the game and coach Stan Van Gundy said he expects him to play tonight.

How can we have a string of posts about Paul in Toronto without singing his praises for an incredible dunk during that game? And Michael Wilbon thought he was just a perimeter player - not!