POST GAME MIN

BOSTON 85 MIN 82

If Walt "Clyde" Fraser was calling the game he would have described the Celtics as "Fumbling and Bumbling". Give it to the Celtics defense ...boy they're good. They were only spotted a 25 pt lead and they held off the Wolves for 3 + periods before they allowed them to tie and go ahead! Wow! Oh and by the way......the Wolves best player ...Love was out!

Only Tommy points I can give were to WEST and GREEN. Great effort by West and in fact he was a refreshing change from Rondo. At least he hit some nice shoots from the outside. Green was scoring and hit some big shots in the first half and then in the second half they don't work him into the offense. What gives? He bailed out the Celtics with a big 3 pter when Wolves were attacking and then never went back to him.

Pierce only played the last 5 minutes with heart....otherwise he bagged it for long periods of time.

Doc looked like a Marine Drill Sargent ....was he pissed especially at Kristic! I don't care what numbers he put up tonight, the guy SXXKS! He looked like a fool at times and got fooled out of his jock one one play where his man did a reverse dunk.
I tell you who is not getting resigned when he becomes a free agent in July. Thanks Danny!

112288

112288

Jeff Green shows flashes all the time, then hes never used enough. The guy can run, he can post, hit 3's, slash, Doc says he doesn't know how to use him? just give him 25-30 minutes a game and the rest will take care of itself. The last two games Ray Allen has not been able to buy a bucket in the second half, I would limit Ray and Paul to 30 minutes a game like hes already doing with Garnett.....and give those minutes to Green. What the fock we get him for? let him make a difference.

cow

Cow

I did not see game but i agree...doc needs to learn to trust Green more but that will only happen in crunch time, how did we look at point guard without rajon? I did not see a second of the game due to slow internet in hospital.

Jeb

If the game would have been played in reverse they would have been heroes. Chill pill is in order

jeb

Delonte looked okay, his defense was good, didn't look to take too many shots, and didn't see the defense leave him open a la Rondo. Hope your feeling better buddy.

cow

Cow

I am feeling better for sure. It's been bumpy/scary but here I sit anyway!

It does not seem like Doc has much faith in Arroyo does it? He seems to have max faith in Delonte.

I feel hopeful the Celts will turn this all around and be ok. As for losing homecourt I dont feel it will hurt us until LA cause then your playing the refs as much or more than the players in game 7. I still feel like the boston celtics will represent the east in the nba finals.

Lotta pride in that team/locker room. Doc is a fine coach. I got a ton of faith in those guys.

Jeb

To those concerned about not seeing more of the backup players right now:

The Celtics are not operating from a position of strength right now because Doc is faced with the triple need (in this order) to (1) develop better chemistry, with the starters necessarily being the chief target, (2) win as many games as possible in an effort to improve their seeding, and (3) integrate new players.

Limiting the use of second echelon backups like Arroyo, Sasha, and (if he were healthy) Murphy is the only sensible option, given that series of priorities. It's especially true of Delonte because he knows the plays far better than Arroyo does.

Unfortunately, a coach can seldom deal with many priorities equally because, at some point, the priorities clash. Think of the various priorities as being prescription medications. They're individually very effective. But, when used simultaneously, they sometimes conflict with one another.

Sam

That sums it up Sam. It is a difficult balancing act. However is it Danny's fault that made this difficult for Doc or a combo of things which include injuries to MD, JON and Shaq.

112288

If I wanted to go bungee jumping, then I'd have gone bungee jumping. That's what this game felt like: starting off at an exhilarating height, a long frightening freefall and then a sudden blood vessel popping stop just before going splat. And people like that feeling?

The Wolves started out 1-12. We were up by 25 points, 38-13, 3 minutes into the 2nd quarter. We were shooting 59% (16-27) to that point. Life was good. Then, it wasn't. They started making shots and we went into one of those scoring droughts we got Krstic and Green to prevent. The big problem here is that this scoring drought lasted almost 3 quarters. From 9 minutes left in the 2nd quarter until the final buzzer, we shot 14-48, for 29%. That's right, we made more fgs in the first 15 minutes of play than we did in the remaining 33 minutes. We drifted into harbor without the benefit of engine, sails nor oars (did I miss any?). We were lucky that the current was going our way in the end. That current's name was Michael Beasley. In the final 7 minutes, Beasley was 0-4, had 3 turnovers and missed a big free throw that effectively iced the game for us. Not something we'll be able to count on, when the competition gets stiffer consistently in the playoffs.

1. Rivers' exasperation with Krstic boiled over in a timeout. He was on the court screaming at him. I don't think I've ever seen Doc tear a player a new one SO publicly before. I think what's happening is two things: one, Krstic is a bit spooked because he's 7' tall and getting blocked repeatedly. He's tentative finishing around the hoop now whereas he wasn't when he first got here and; two, his basketball IQ isn't that high. When he got here and was playing on emotion and instinct, he was fine. Now, he's expected to execute Doc's very complex offensive playbook, he's struggling (like Leon did, and Doc sat Leon down for a long time until Leon showed he learned it) but he has been thrown into the fire due to the injuries to the O'Neal's. That's one advantage Green has had over Krstic. Any fuzziness in his execution isn't as glaring, since he's not starting and playing fewer minutes. I'm not sure I agree with 112288, about Krstic not getting resigned as a free agent, but he won't be the starter. He's only the starter by default now.

2. As the players were heading to the lockerroom at halftime, Doc buttonholed Pierce under a basket and was talking to him too. He wasn't jumping out of his skin, like he was with Krstic, but his body language didn't make me think he was chatting about the beautiful weather. Pierce was 6-16 and 2-8 from 3. He is waaay too much in love with his 3s. If I'm Doc, and I'm the coach next year, I would forbid Pierce from participating in the 3 pt shooting contest at the all-star game. It has gone to his head, he is not shooting them well and it's costing us dearly in offensive flow. Sure, he pulled some rabbits out of his hat in the final minutes to avoid a complete humiliation, but that doesn't wipe out the other 30+ minutes he played. Defensively, he couldn't contain Beasley. A mismatch, which Beasley worked, not only with his shooting but with his offensive rebounding.

3. Our lack of size and bulk (and toughness) allowed Rambis to let loose the dogs. 17 offensive rebounds for Minny out of a total of 32. I'm not sure I remember a game where offensive rebounds were >50% of the total.

4. First it was Kwame Brown, then it was Darko and Beasley who abused Davis. All the NBA high-lottery-pick busts in the league are checking the schedule to see if they get to play the Celtics again this year, hoping for their shot at redemption too. Not only did Baby shoot a miserable 4-15, he couldn't keep Darko off the offensive boards, nor off the blocks, nor did he handle Beasley when he was on him either. We're all beating Krstic for his play but Krstic has the excuse of being new and not have a training camp. What's Baby's excuse?

5. Delonte played a solid game. He, and Green, are the only Celtics to shoot 50% or better. He got a HUGE offensive rebound with only 28 seconds left in the game. I have no idea how he carved that space out in the middle of all those Wolves, but he did. We were up by 3, at that point, and the Wolves were shooting lights out from everywhere, so retaining possession was critical. He lost his man, Ridnour, several times and it cost us. I noticed this a bunch of times in the game. Ray forgot he had to keep track of his man too a few times. How often does Ray Allen go brain dead?

6. You know the wheels are coming off when one of the greatest ft shooters in the history of the NBA doesn't want the ball in an obvious "they're going to foul us" situation. That's the way it appeared to me when Ray Allen got the ball from West, after his big offensive rebound, and then passed it to Pierce who got fouled. Fortunately, Pierce hit both fts, which raised the lead to 5, but shouldn't Ray Allen want to be at the line? We are looking at a collapse of confidence here. Furthermore, we've forgotten about doing pindowns for Ray. I can't remember the last time I saw a pindown for Ray, and he's phenomenal at them (Reggie Miller and Maravich were deadeyes on pindowns too). They've thrown the playbook that worked so well for years away, it seems.

7. Sasha didn't do anything offensively, but I thought he played pretty sticky defense. His problem is that Green is getting a lot of his minutes at 3 and West is getting minutes at 2, so that's not leaving much for Sasha.

8. Carlos did ok too. Nothing awesome, but he's only being asked to sub, not start like he did at Miami. Even though Rondo didn't play, Carlos still only played 17 minutes. That tells me something about Doc's confidence, or lack thereof, in Carlos.

9. Anthony Tolliver is an escapee from the D-league who got a break last year with GSW, when they were so injury-riddled they barely could make the minimum roster. I was surprised when they let him move on. He's a solid player, can shoot and take it inside too. 16 points on 5-10, 15 rebounds and 4 blocks in 36 minutes. Outstanding performance by Tolliver. Another former Warrior, Anthony Randolph, is one of those players you hear about that "have so much potential" and then never really achieve it. 6'11", can put the ball on the floor, he should be a mismatch against everybody he plays, but he just underachieves. Luckily for us.

10. We shot 4-15 from 3. Pierce took half his fga from 3. Half, and shot 25% on them. Somebody needs to go to his house and take the Fatboy poster of him shooting 3s down off his bedroom ceiling.

Doc calls them "soft". Doesn't turn them around. Doc calls them out in the press about their selfish attitudes, and they're still hoisting 3s even though they're not hitting them. What's starting to worry me a little now is the bigger picture. If Doc's not getting through to them, how long do you think it's gonna take before he realizes it and decides to not come back next year? Without Doc, the last stand of the 3 Amigos (assuming this isn't it) will be wasted.

In an effort to maintain at least some perspective here, let's remember that this isn't the second season yet. EVERY game doesn't count here. Sure, we want to win. Sure, we want to have homecourt as far into the playoffs as we can, but it's not the end of the world if we don't. We've proven that before. It's just frustrating watching them flounder.

bob

.

In an effort to maintain at least some perspective here, let's remember that this isn't the second season yet. EVERY game doesn't count here. Sure, we want to win. Sure, we want to have homecourt as far into the playoffs as we can, but it's not the end of the world if we don't. We've proven that before. It's just frustrating watching them flounder.

bob

Hey buddy I think this is very true. The playoffs be a different beast and I still think the Celtics are the best team in the east in a 7 game series. It sucks now but we are going to be ok.

112288,

Just for the record, I don't happen to agree that this is Danny's fault, for several reasons.

• In the first place, I believe "this" is not representative of how the Celtics will look in the playoffs.

• Danny badly needed a backup who had to legitimate size to match up with larger small forwards. He got one who can play three positions and represent matchup problems at each of the three.

• He also got a center whose value in any given game could range from serviceable to a valuable complement. And, yes, he was probably counting on the return of Shaq and/or Jermaine by playoff time. It's not yet playoff time.

• The Celtics would have had a very difficult time winning a championship being so overbalanced toward defense. The offense simply had too many lapses in being to capitalize on defensive stands. The "new" defense has quite consistently held other teams in the 80s or less. That's actually better than the "old" defense. The "new" offense has not yet crystallized because it takes precision (thus time and repetition) to do so, whereas defense is more a matter of effort. But I've seen enough glimmers of the potential of the "new" offense to convince me that it could be something special when they come out of their funk. There's nothing like (1) the remaining 10-or-so games, (2) several days off for serious practice after the regular season and (3) the challenge of the playoffs to remove the funk factor.

For two years, I've been making two statements. (1) The present is not the future. (2) See me in April. Both statements worked out last season, as many, many people wound up looking somewhat shortsighted. I'll be interested to see what happens this season.

I'm not posting much on my own board at this time, because I realize so many people need time and space to vent their concerns and frustration. But we'll see what happens in the playoffs.

Go Celtics!

Sam

If the Wolves had Kevin Love last night, with how the C's played, it's at least a 10-15 poit loss for Boston-MD.

Sam

I think you make valid points. The urge to call for Danny or anybody else's head during such a funk is not the best road to pick. I have to disagree with you on the scoring tho. I really thought (with a combination of chemistry and sheer SIZE) this years Celtics would have won is spite of being scoringly challenged.

They lost to the Lakers last year because of size imho. Danny addressed that in the offseason in magnificent fashion with 21 feet of lumber. We had the best record (fairly easily) in the east and second best in the nba. One thing that is being lost in all this discontent is the trading of the Turk. He really contributed this year and gave us seven feet and 6 hard fouls which he was not afraid to use. With the case of Shaq...well Shaq just teased us and wound up breaking our hearts (unless he comes back and gives us 12 and ten in the playoffs)

Last year was tough for us diehards to watch. And you were right and really held the whole mess together around here but this is a different year and Danny's legacy if we lose will be one of a guy who blinked when it mattered most and traded away the holy grail of beautiful, functional chemistry for a bunch of pieces and parts that dont really fit. Thats just how it is.

If he wins or gets to the finals he is prolly still king around Boston.

Best wishes Sam

Jeb

sam wrote:I'm not posting much on my own board at this time, because I realize so many people need time and space to vent their concerns and frustration. But we'll see what happens in the playoffs.

Go Celtics!

Sam

Completely agree. I dont want to sit here and negative posts from people I really like out here.....so I too am taking a step back from the board for the time being.

Should April and May roll around and the team is still playing up and down ball, I will be first to say you guys were right. But for now, I still see the Cs as the team to beat come playoff time.

Sam,

You raise some valid points in your post but I think you miss some valid points as well. The "new offense" as you put it as it pertains to Green is alive and well if and when "they" (Doc) decide to involve him in the offensive flow and give him the ball! Sadly they often do not. Regarding the new offense and Kristic, "they" (the Celtics) have tried to involve him and he is an utter failure. Out side of a few dunks and 1 or 2 pops from 10 ft, he was stumbling and bumbling around the net. He got stuffed 2-3 times last night and what is he 7 ft. The same fate occurred to him during the Knick game last week and the tallest Knick is what 6'9". So I don't buy the "new offense" theory unless you can show me something I am overlooking to the contrary.

112288

Jeb,

That stuff about a player giving six hard fouls goes only so far with me. If the six fouls are all compressed into 12 or 15 minutes of playing time, (1) it greatly diminishes the value of the player and (2) it means the other team is probably gathering great momentum. That was Semih's tendency.

I have seen no proof that a transformation similar to that of last year can't occur come playoff time this season. I've seen fear and trepidation, but no proof.

Since The Trade, the Celtics are giving up something like 2-5 fewer PPG than earlier in the year and something like 6-10 fewer PPG than last year's team (regular season). So what's really at issue is the offense. Others can believe the offense was better with Perk (and his turnovers) than it will be when Krstic and Green (to say nothing of two backups for Rondo and the possibility of Shaq's inclusion). Not I.

Aside from being in a funk, there are several things the offense (both the starters and the bench) has to work on. I believe the overwhelming priority is for them to hold their picks much better. Otherwise, (1) the pick-and-roll offense (which Krstic executes pretty well) falls apart, (2) going to the basket (which they really need to do more of when their outside shots are not falling, (3) Ray's curls become largely a waste of energy, (4) it's easier for opponents to jump into passing lanes and create Celtics turnovers, and (5) it means opponents can crash the Celtics' offensive boards with less resistance than as if their defensive rhythm weren't impeded. Improvement in just one area can potentially enhance five major pieces to the offensive puzzle, which should, in turn, disable the funk factor.

Perhaps they can't learn better pick discipline over ten games and a few practices, but I believe they can. Perhaps Shaq's presence wouldn't improve their pick discipline, but I believe it would.

And improvement of their picks is just one of several ways in which they can suddenly find their offensive game more easy to execute. Improvement in professional basketball doesn't happen just because a coach yells or snaps his fingers. It takes hard work and repetitions. But, with the right type and amount of hard work and repetitions, it's amazing how that funk factor morphs into infectious enthusiasm and a tendency to play more instinctively than overthinking and playing too mechanically, which is what has been occurring.

I choose to believe all or much of the necessary improvement is possible, and that's pretty much what happened last season. As far as I'm concerned, this is a different year mainly because it ends in "1" rather than "0."

And, Jeb, we're all proud of how you're dealing with all the hospital crap. Hang in there.

Sam

sam wrote:Jeb,

That stuff about a player giving six hard fouls goes only so far with me. If the six fouls are all compressed into 12 or 15 minutes of playing time, (1) it greatly diminishes the value of the player and (2) it means the other team is probably gathering great momentum. That was Semih's tendency.

I have seen no proof that a transformation similar to that of last year can't occur come playoff time this season. I've seen fear and trepidation, but no proof.

Since The Trade, the Celtics are giving up something like 2-5 fewer PPG than earlier in the year and something like 6-10 fewer PPG than last year's team (regular season). So what's really at issue is the offense. Others can believe the offense was better with Perk (and his turnovers) than it will be when Krstic and Green (to say nothing of two backups for Rondo and the possibility of Shaq's inclusion). Not I.

Aside from being in a funk, there are several things the offense (both the starters and the bench) has to work on. I believe the overwhelming priority is for them to hold their picks much better. Otherwise, (1) the pick-and-roll offense (which Krstic executes pretty well) falls apart, (2) going to the basket (which they really need to do more of when their outside shots are not falling, (3) Ray's curls become largely a waste of energy, (4) it's easier for opponents to jump into passing lanes and create Celtics turnovers, and (5) it means opponents can crash the Celtics' offensive boards with less resistance than as if their defensive rhythm weren't impeded. Improvement in just one area can potentially enhance five major pieces to the offensive puzzle, which should, in turn, disable the funk factor.

Perhaps they can't learn better pick discipline over ten games and a few practices, but I believe they can. Perhaps Shaq's presence wouldn't improve their pick discipline, but I believe it would.

And improvement of their picks is just one of several ways in which they can suddenly find their offensive game more easy to execute. Improvement in professional basketball doesn't happen just because a coach yells or snaps his fingers. It takes hard work and repetitions. But, with the right type and amount of hard work and repetitions, it's amazing how that funk factor morphs into infectious enthusiasm and a tendency to play more instinctively than overthinking and playing too mechanically, which is what has been occurring.

I choose to believe all or much of the necessary improvement is possible, and that's pretty much what happened last season. As far as I'm concerned, this is a different year mainly because it ends in "1" rather than "0."

And, Jeb, we're all proud of how you're dealing with all the hospital crap. Hang in there.

Sam

sam,

I agree with just about all you are saying. They are not holding their picks as long as they used to nor as long as they should. If there's an offensive category where Perk is better than Krstic it's in Perk's willingness to set and stay with a pick.

I mentioned pindowns above. I think your reference to Ray's less effective curls are likewise victims of weak picking.

Everybody wants to pop off the pick so they can get into postion to get the pass and take an open shot. They're thinking about themselves. They need remember that there will be no open shot if the pick doesn't free the ball.

bob

.

swedeinestonia wrote:If the game would have been played in reverse they would have been heroes. Chill pill is in order

swede,

I hadn't thought about it that way. Excellent point.

Regards

Bob,

Right you are. And there's little question in my mind that Krstic has been the biggest offender, although they can all share some of the cricitism. But, in the Celtics' system (largely due, I'm sure, to the presence of Perk), the center position is most important in terms of setting picks. Krstic certainly has the physical ability to do it. He's no lightweight.

It seemed obvious that, at the outset, Krstic and Green were rather shocked to experience the Celtics' selflessness even though they had witnessed it as opponents. Green has continued to display that realization. Krstic seems to have backtracked, perhaps because the extent of his role (compared with his previous experiences) has overwhelmed him as the force-feeding process continues.

He almost certainly has more responsibilities than he did with other teams, and he's far from being instinctive in discharging those responsibilities. Another 10 games and several practices (especially immediately after the season) can't help but give him the confidence to act without thinking so much, and his adaptation will undoubtedly have to continue throughout the playoffs.

Hopefully, if Shaq and/or Jermaine can come back, both Krstic and Glen Davis will be able to operate without such extended pressure from intensely consequential responsibilities.

Sam

Fellas

I wonder if the reason Perks picks were so much better is precisely because he KNEW his limitations on offense and he knew pick setting was a place where he could take pride and contribute.

And Sam my response to your whole last post is look at the results pre and post trade and my MAIN response in reading your eloquent post is that it really IS as simple as staying with a pick and those kinds of small details that make things sink or swim isnt it?

I really think the team will be fine and I think both oneals will be back and greatly contribute so i am either quite dumb or a pretty solid optimist inre the Celts. I guess it pisses me off a little that Danny did not think he had the team to win it this year when it was so clear to me (again just my opinion) that he did. After that I have to TRUST that Danny knows not one but 100 things I dont about the team he is managing.

Anyway keep it coming Sam I love to read your well reasoned, logical ideals and I love to watch your mind at work. We both LOVE the Boston Celtics and we both are happy to have such a fine place to show that love.

Viva la Sams!

Jeb

I didn't see the game but was surprised that Rondo didn't play at all. Kudos to Delonte. Guys, when Rondo comes back in better shape physically and mentally, we'll do well in the playoffs. Looking at the bright side of last night, Delonte got to start and polish his game - a huge plus when you consider who Rondo had for a backup last year. We'll be ok.

For every action, there is a reaction. I don't think you pin why the Celtics are not holding their picks longer due to they want to get back for an open shot.

There were certain elements taken away from the Celtics offense and defense by the injury to MD and the trades of Robinson and Perkins and to the lesser degree Seme. Players are now reacting differently to the way they set picks and other things to try to compensate for elements to the game that are now missing.

Say what you want about the trade of Perkins and Danny but let's not be
Pollyannish and say it was for the good of getting younger and better. The trade was done because Danny would not pay Perk his due $$$$$$$$$$ and would have lost him next year. Period end of story. I am not sure where you find a starting center for cheap dollars anywhere in the league. Even Miller who went to Huston as a backup is commanding big dollars.

112288

YOU'RE RIGHT --- $$$ DETERMINED pERK'S FUTURE

112288

Just one point...........it's not Ainge's money to spend.

And as I said before NONE of us know the true inter workings as to what happens and how it happens. We can speculate till the cows come home and still no one knows. Some answers make sense others not but again it is what it is.

beat

I'm sure most people saw this in the Globe but here is a good piece on Rondo's woes:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/gasper/2011/03/pointing_the_fi.html