POST GAME MIAMI

MDCelticsFan wrote:To: LACeltsfan:

The only reason the C's hold onto the 3rd spot is because there are not enough games left for Orlando to catch the C's, and Dwight Howard is getting Techs faster than a dog getting fleas without flea powder!

MD.

Your negativity is sad. Clearly you forget what it was like to be a Celtics fan in the 1990s. Nearly a full decade of futility, when even making the playoffs was an accomplishment.

MD

thanks I know your a great fan at heart I only take issue with the attitude that is making you appear to give up on this team and on this season.

Does Jeb feel this way about his illness?

It is not over till we lose 4 to a team. Certainly I agree we do not appear to be ready to battle Chcago or Miami right now but the playoffs are a different season.

Agree we do need to play better, but last seaosn we were in pretty dier straights too and made it within a couple minutes and hoops of winning then.

Also in regards to Ainge if not for him we're still looking for 17.

And it sure beats the hell out of most of the 22 seasons prior to 08 too.

beat

PS and it sure as hell is NOT the attitude I want my son to have (the kid in my avatar) I'd love for you to explain to him just how the heck you can be a fan yet just flat out give up as you appear to do.

The other evening he was called upon to pitch in freezing weather, basically 2 innings of a lost game as we were trailing 8-2. Did he jsut go out there and go thru the motions..........I'd kick his a$$ from there to home if he did, but I know he is a competitor and will do anything he can to get that batter out. This Celtic team is full of competitors that will fight till there is no more time on the clock.

Beat:

I just hope Marcus didn't damage his arm pitching in that cold raw weather. As far as Ainge, remember McHale gave Garnett to him, allbeit with thin treadwear left. Ainge's blunders far outwiegh anything anyone thinks he masterminded. Realistically, almost the entire squad looks spent, and some even appear to have virtually nothing left. I'm just facing the facts (to me) of a team whose performance is deteriorating, or under performing at best. No one knows how long they will live, but they way my body feels and the way the C's are not performing, I don't expect to be in this world when Banner # 18 is secured.

MD

MDCelticsFan wrote:Beat:

I just hope Marcus didn't damage his arm pitching in that cold raw weather. As far as Ainge, remember McHale gave Garnett to him, allbeit with thin treadwear left. Ainge's blunders far outwiegh anything anyone thinks he masterminded. Realistically, almost the entire squad looks spent, and some even appear to have virtually nothing left. I'm just facing the facts (to me) of a team whose performance is deteriorating, or under performing at best. No one knows how long they will live, but they way my body feels and the way the C's are not performing, I don't expect to be in this world when Banner # 18 is secured.

MD

In the 4 years since he has been here, he has delivered 4 All Star appearances – 1 Defensive Player of the Year – 2 NBA Finals Appearances (with one still possible) – 1 NBA Championship.

By what warped definition is that “thin treadwear”???

The Chicago Bulls barely survived the Orlando Magic yesterday who were playing without Dwight Howard, JJ Redick and Quentin Richardson. They needed 39 points from Rose to do it, too.

I would like to repeat part of a post I wrote on another thread:

Injuries cost us championships in 2 of the past 3 seasons. If Bynum's knees turn back into Bynum's knees, if Wade's thigh gets kneed again, if Tim Duncan's ankle sprain recurs or if any of the trio of Rose, Boozer and Noah get injured then this shoe could be on the other foot.

Last season, we lurched and careened into the playoffs, just as we're doing this season, and we still came 4 minutes and an MCL away from #18.

It ain't over 'til it's over and it (as in the playoffs) haven't even begun yet.

There will still be plenty of time to panic. Pace yourselves. I'm as unhappy about the past few games' performances as the rest of you are, but these games barely count.

We still own the season series against Miami 3-1. Their victory yesterday prevented us from sweeping them. We're still 2-2 vs Chicago. I realize I'm oversimplifying a bit here, but my point is that we've proven, in hard, tangible irrefutable terms, that we can play with them. All we need to do is for the starting team (who won most if not all of those victories without Perk) to get it together. If we were a young, brash athletic team who has never been to the Big Dance before, I'd say that's a tall order. But we're not.

Remember the Atlanta Hawks of 2008? They took us to 7, scared the hell out of us, and were picked as the next up-and-coming team by every talking head out there. What have they accomplished since then? Nothing. Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill more times than not.

Let's wait to see how Shaq does. That will make a big difference alone, not just in rebounding and scoring, but in toughness. Neither O'Neal's will allow themselves to get pushed around much without laying some lumber (like JON did yesterday on LBJ) and that will affect the rest of the players' attitudes too.

bob

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MD

Marcus only threw 20-25 pitches and NO curves just a slow fast ball and a slower change up. He'll be fine and probably pitch this eve as long as we play.............(rain)

McHale GAVE him to us? no way we gave up quite a few bodies to land um. SO you dead wrong there. Boston sent the Minnesota Timberwolves forwards Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green, guard Sebastian Telfair and center Theo Ratliff, two first-round draft picks and cash considerations.

Yep sure looks like McHale gave him to us!
As for your sumation of Ainge that is your opinion not mine.

And hang in there. All is not lost.

You could be a Cubs fan!

beat

Danny Ainge got lucky as any CEO of a company or GM of a professional sports team will tell you. Call it timing.......call it catching lightning in a bottle, call it "Lady Luck" but success at what ever level has an element of that.

Danny, up until the trade for RA/KG was a good evaluator of individual talent but did a poor job in evaluating the intangibles in ball players that allow them to jell with teammates and form a working unit. In fact many will tell you that he and Doc were one season away from being shown the door.

Yes the Celtics won in 2008...but there was a bit of timing, luck or lighting in that win. The luck for Danny was having those players available and wanting to come over to the Celtics, getting teams to accept the talent Danny was trading away, and KG/RA/PP put their playing styles down and accepted Doc's "team basketball."

It was a given KG/RA/PP talent level. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that but how they integrated their talent on a team level that was the luck part that played into Danny's trade. It could have gone just the opposite way and we would be still looking for banner 17.

So Danny trades Perk with the best intentions and on paper the trade matches up for the better favoring the Celtics. Unfortunately Lady Luck did not follow in the trade and allow these new players talents to match up and jell with the present Celtic team.

So what to conclude from this.......Danny is an ok GM but don't make him out to be "the end of all" GM's. Danny is good but his compass can be off at times as we saw in the early 2000's and Lady Luck just did not hitch a ride with him this time!

112288

Here's a quote by Doc, post-game:

We’ve got to set better picks. I think our pick-setting is horrendous right now. We have one pick-setter on the team and that’s Kevin [Garnett].” I agree with Doc 100% and have been spouting that for a while now.

Here's some analysis, as to why Ray Allen's not shooting well:

Allen finished with 13 points on 4-of-9 shooting Sunday. After attempting only two first-half shots, he came out cold after intermission and missed all three shots he put up in the third quarter. The Celtics are doing little to get him open and even less to get him going.

Consider this: Allen is averaging a mere 9.1 shots per game over his last 10 contests, never launching more than 11 shots in that span. This from a player who has averaged 15.7 shots per game during his career, including roughly 12.2 shots per game both this season and last.

What’s more, according to Synergy Sports, Allen ranks second in the NBA in field goals attempted off of screens (350 field goal attempts) and on those plays is tops among qualifiers (more than 200 plays) in both field goal percentage (45.4 percent) and points per play (1.04). Allen also ranks among the top four players in the league averaging 4.4 shots off screens per game.

It’s worth noting that Allen is averaging only 2.2 attempts off screens per game over his last five games. And since the Kendrick Perkins trade, he’s down from 4.7 attempts per game to 3.6. Perkins was one of the team’s top pick-setters.


If I had to pick a culprit here, I'd say it's Krstic. I'm not getting down on him overall, but he doesn't set-and-hold picks. He's too eager to release and get to his spot. I honestly believe that when Shaq comes back, you'll see some real teeth-rattling picks set by BOTH O'Neals. Hell, they'll need to call a cab just to get around Shaq's pick, he's so damn big. That's one of the big reasons we had such an effective beginning of the season. Shaq was setting BIG picks and that was freeing up the ball. We need to do more pindowns for Ray. Pure and simple.

bob

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Bob

With Perk missing the first (whatever) games of the season.

Who was settin the picks then? Shaq? Perhaps for a bit but he rarely played Ray's minutes when he did play.

Didn't seem to matter then?

And above and beyond setting screens seems we just don't push the issue much. After viewing the game against Washington first hand, Wall ran everytime up the court every stinking time be it 1 on 4 or 4 on 1 he forced the issue and cause mismatches.

Now Rondo had an OK game but too many times he walked the ball up. His big advantage over most players including guards is speed and quickness and when he walks it up it just allows for a much tougher offensive set for us.

Thing is in the playoffs that is often what games revert too and in that case I think we are in for some problems. We just seem to have to work to hard for our points for to much of the games. Yesterday in the first 1/2 of the first quarter we had the Heat on their collective heels by pushing the ball, unfortunately the turnover bug appeared and we just quit running. That and the rebounding issues hurt big time yesterday.

beat

Bob,

You called it last night in your post....good job!

112288

beat wrote:Bob

With Perk missing the first (whatever) games of the season.

Who was settin the picks then? Shaq? Perhaps for a bit but he rarely played Ray's minutes when he did play.

Didn't seem to matter then?

And above and beyond setting screens seems we just don't push the issue much. After viewing the game against Washington first hand, Wall ran everytime up the court every stinking time be it 1 on 4 or 4 on 1 he forced the issue and cause mismatches.

Now Rondo had an OK game but too many times he walked the ball up. His big advantage over most players including guards is speed and quickness and when he walks it up it just allows for a much tougher offensive set for us.

Thing is in the playoffs that is often what games revert too and in that case I think we are in for some problems. We just seem to have to work to hard for our points for to much of the games. Yesterday in the first 1/2 of the first quarter we had the Heat on their collective heels by pushing the ball, unfortunately the turnover bug appeared and we just quit running. That and the rebounding issues hurt big time yesterday.

beat

beat,

Shaq didn't play as many minutes as Ray did, but he did start the 1st and 3rd quarters like Ray did, so there was a fair amount of overlap. Also, we had Erden setting picks. Erden didn't worry about peeling off the pick to get to a shooting spot because his shooting spot was 5' and in. Krstic pops OUT, not in. Erden would set and hold his picks and then roll to the hoop. Also, that was back in the day when Davis didn't get as excited about 18 footers. He set and held picks and didn't just look to release asap.

bob

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Bob,

You and I have been singing a duet about the lack of good picks for some time. I've never wavered from my assertion that the lack of lasting picks is the number one, two and three culprit in the Celtics' offensive woes.

I don't blame Krstic (although he's not good at setting lasting picks) as much as I blame what was supposed to be—Shaq and Jermaine setting picks.

There is one area in which Krystic would benefit personally from setting better picks. Maybe Doc can confront him with the fact that Nenad has the ability and timing to roll quite well to the hoop—but that roll is ineffective without the initial pick.

In the Washington game, I was astonished to see Krstic set and hold several picks. Perhaps that was an anomaly, but I had hoped I was witnessing a trend. Who knows? It will be interesting to see what happens in the playoffs in terms of both available personnel and adjustments to the system.

Sam

beat wrote:MD

thanks I know your a great fan at heart I only take issue with the attitude that is making you appear to give up on this team and on this season.

Does Jeb feel this way about his illness?

It is not over till we lose 4 to a team. Certainly I agree we do not appear to be ready to battle Chcago or Miami right now but the playoffs are a different season.

Agree we do need to play better, but last seaosn we were in pretty dier straights too and made it within a couple minutes and hoops of winning then.
Also in regards to Ainge if not for him we're still looking for 17.

And it sure beats the hell out of most of the 22 seasons prior to 08 too.

beat

PS and it sure as hell is NOT the attitude I want my son to have (the kid in my avatar) I'd love for you to explain to him just how the heck you can be a fan yet just flat out give up as you appear to do.

Well said Beat. Unfortunately, this act is far from a new one with MD. He did the same thing last year leading up to the playoffs – and the has been on DA’s case right along.

Funny thing is…he claimed last year that if DA was a good GM, he would be worried not just about the present but the future – and that to do that, he needed to start surrounding Rondo with “younger and faster players with more length” - which is JUST what DA did with the Perk trade.

Some people fall into the “never satisfied” category….MD is one of them.

MDCelticsFan wrote:Posted April 10, 2010 - You all know how I think management screwed up personnel wise. Injuries and age took care of the rest. The present incarnation of this team is history!-MD.

MDCelticsFan wrote:Posted June 25, 2010 - The Portland owner must be bonkers getting rid of Pritchard. Pritchard doesn't need to lean on his buddies for blockbuster trades like Ainge leaned on McHale for Garnett 3 years ago. Pritchard could remake the Celts who probably will miss the playoffs next year unless drastic measures are taken. Younger faster with more length to capitalize on Rondo's strengths is the direction needed for Boston. Pritchard is creative enough to get the Celts back in contention. Ainge is not. The draft is proof enough. Everyone else seems to be getting better. The C's are just aging, and not like fine wine. Not only is the window closed, but the house itself is windowless!

mrkleen

Thanks

beat

Andjust to add if someone like Jone Paul Jones had given up over 200 years ago...........we might very well



be speaking ENGLISH!

I'm looking at it this way...

Everyone is writing us and the Lakers off, including some of each team's own fans.

I'm not trying to support this with facts or lies (a.k.a. statistics) but the way these things usually go...

We'll probably end up meeting in the finals.

Regards

NYCelt wrote:I'm looking at it this way...

Everyone is writing us and the Lakers off, including some of each team's own fans.

I'm not trying to support this with facts or lies (a.k.a. statistics) but the way these things usually go...

We'll probably end up meeting in the finals.

Regards

God, i hope so.
to get there, we need to take care of a couple things (as mentioned by bobh and 112288 and many others so well) so that our offensive flow, well, flows, instead of hiccups.

Michael

I've gone into "wait for the playoffs" mode. It does appear we have company on our current ship ride with the Lakers.

One day at a time fans. Take it one day at a time. Let's wait till the first round of the playoffs before freaking out.