2011 Playoffs POST GAME MIAMI GAME 4

IT HAS NOT WORKED ALLLLLLL YEARRRRRRRRRRRR AND IT DID NOT WORK NOWWWWWWW

DOC YOU CANNOT GO SMALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

JON GIVES YOU REBOUNDING...A PRESENCE DOWN LOW.......AND HE CREATES SPACING...SETS PICKS FOR RAY ALLEN TO GET OPEN

THAT'S HOW IT WORKS.....................THANKS DOC FOR BLOWING THE GAME AND THE SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO MUCH FOR YOUR CRAFTY TRADING DANNY..............LET THE PUBLIC FLOGGING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

112288

112288 wrote:IT HAS NOT WORKED ALLLLLLL YEARRRRRRRRRRRR AND IT DID NOT WORK NOWWWWWWW

DOC YOU CANNOT GO SMALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

JON GIVES YOU REBOUNDING...A PRESENCE DOWN LOW.......AND HE CREATES SPACING...SETS PICKS FOR RAY ALLEN TO GET OPEN

THAT'S HOW IT WORKS.....................THANKS DOC FOR BLOWING THE GAME AND THE SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO MUCH FOR YOUR CRAFTY TRADING DANNY..............LET THE PUBLIC FLOGGING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

112288

Lets quote this...so next year we can pull it up and remember that it took you exactly 5 minutes after the game was over to start with the BS "I Told You So"

Well done Sir. Spoken like a true die hard fan.

MR KLEEN................BIGGGER FAN THEN YOU'LL EVER KNOW....OR WILL BE

GOTTA BE REALISTIC .....NO BS MY FRIEND IT'S AN OBSERVATION IF YOU CANNOT ACCEPT DOC'S SCREWUP ....GET OUT OF THE ARENA!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS A SITE THAT WELCOMES FREE SPEECH...I HOPE YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THOSE BOSTON.COM PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

112288

We had our shot to win it and it didn't go in. Can't ask for more than that. would have liked it had we blown them out with this game so we would have some momentum (I know, I don't like that word) going into MIA. Will have to start from scratch Wednesday.

3 elimination games lay ahead of us.

A tough loss...but Hope Springs Eternal....

couldnt score when it mattered. Ouch cant stand the Heat.

We aint dead not eliminated yet.

This was a tough loss. The Celtics really played hard.

Strange substitution patterns. Agree with 112288. Hate small ball when you have bigs. Bosh tip
In was a killer.

Hope celtics show up for game -5.

Series is not over yet.

Dboss

Tough, tough loss, I was proud of the way our guys fought. A break here or there we win that game.

My argument is simple. You are asking a 34 year KG who played a lot of minutes, had very little vertical leaping ability left in his legs, to not only guard the paint on defense but to control the glass as well. Not happening as we all saw take place.

Playing JON gives you 4 things up front:
1) Size in the paint so as to prevent Miami about thinking about driving the paint and settling for jump shots;
2) Rebounding...we got killed on both ends of the court late in the game;
3) Spacing and a big to set picks to spring PP or RA for jump shots;
4) JON can use his size to score down low or at least free-up KG.

If you checked the past record of Doc going small...it has never worked!

Hey we all love our team and I am not a good loser when it comes to the Celtics...........Especially when I believe we could have won the game but instead lost because of a poor coaching decision! Does anyone realize that JON was at the scores table ready to come in with 6 minutes to go and Doc pulled him back to the bench!

THE CASE FOR BEING A SORE LOSER:
''PEOPLE WHO ACCEPT LOSING (EASY) ARE LOSERS" - RED AUERBACH !

112288

Hi,
I tend to agree with 112288. I was asking myself: why Doc doesn't put BBD or JON in. Oh well...
Another observation - a human can take pain only so much. By the end of regulation RR was practically useless on offense.
As for Bosh's tip in, it was KG mistake: he should've let PP to switch back to Lebron and defend Bosh.
Also, luck wasn't on our side.

AK

You guys have got to be kidding me. Did you even watch the game? Did you see the Heat put in their small line up? Do you want JON or Baby in the game trying to guard James Jones?

Doc had a small line up in to MATCH UP with the opponent. Not his decision, he responded to what was happening – and the fact that the Heat’s small line up was handing it to his bigger line up. So he put in Delonte along with the big 4. That’s it.

Celtics played hard – they tried their best – they had a few lapses in execution and they lost. Period.

As for 112288 lecturing me on how to be a fan….I would laugh in your face if it weren’t for the fact that you (along with your buddy MD) are the two biggest flip floppers on this board. You cry wolf every other day – and then try and claim that BS Chicken Little act is somehow something that Red would condone? LMFAO.

Just like the Lakers on Sunday – people show their true colors when the chips are down. Not surprised at all to see 112288 out here playing the blame game….just a bit surprised at some of the others who are drinking the haterade.

MrKleen you have a right as a fan to voice your opinion...however by your tone of voice, your verbal sparring, and singling out people who do not conform to you ideology or your idea of how a fan should act or react................................... Is Sad!

God Bless You

112288

Mrkleen,
With all due respect, your logic is kind of flawed. It's better to be pro-active than re-active. We don't know what'd happen if Doc inserted JON, how Spo'd react. Actually, JON was at the scorers table ready to go at about 6 min mark. There was plenty of time to pull him out if it didn't work.
But, as you said it yourself, we lost and now all these discussions are academic, alas.

AK

SHit i was hoping it was all a bad dream. Guess not. All in all I thought the guys played plenty well to win the game but I have worried about scoring forever and it seems to rear it's ugly head at the very worse time.

I agree the Bosh tip in was the end and I totally saw it coming after the switch.

Maybe we can get the next one in Miami and make em think some. Feels like a changing of the guard if thats the case I love to see Atlanta Memphis just to shit in stern's snack pack!

I really liked this game. I would have loved it, except for the final score. The first half had a great, spirited attack and active defense by the Celtics, with the Heat repeatedly closing the gap to stay in touch. The second half was a Golden Gloves bout in a phone booth. The biggest lead in the second half was 8, by the Celtics, on a jumper by Green with a minute left in the 3rd. A real dogfight, this one.

1. We scored 4 points in the OT. You can't beat a high school JV team like that. We were 1-5 from the floor, had 3 TOs and fouled them on almost every possession. They shot 4-7, had only 1 TO, had 6fta and LBJ played exceptional position defense on Pierce. We were chucking up 3ptrs, which missed, while they set picks and drove to create contact. In short, they played a championship OT while we played like a team that never saw one before.

2. We wanted Shaq for inside presence and intimidation and for 6 hard fouls. All we got was 2 fouls in 4 minutes. Do the right thing, Shaq, and retire.

3. We needed another good offensive game from KG. We didn't need it to be great, we just needed a good game from him. We got 1-10. I loved him diving across the floor for that ball though. His heart was in it, I'm just not sure his legs were, not over the entire 41 minutes. I'm surprised they didn't go inside to him much. Even if they doubled him, that would have created an opportunity for someone else. It might have gotten some daylight for Ray, not that he shot well in the first half anyway. A couple of shots were way, way off.

4. Who are you, and what have you done with Ray Allen? Statistically, he didn't have a bad game: 5-12, 2-5 from 3 for 17 points. I have to say, though, that his head, once again, seemed to be somewhere else. He made a number of bad decisions, that is unlike him. Wade ate him alive and played sticky enough defense on him that Ray didn't get a lot of open looks. Some more picks would have helped too, but that's a team problem for Doc to fix, not Ray's. I had Ray penciled in for a big game, after his stinker of a game 3. I didn't get it. What I got was a game 3 redux.

5. Step aside Kobe, Dwayne Wade is the best closer in the business now. He was unstoppable. He was unstoppable last year too, but he didn't have any help. It didn't hurt that his teammates were setting good picks for him either.

6. The Miami "big 3" had 83 points out of their total of 98. Our Big 3 had 51.

7. Great game by the Captain. 10-20 from the field, he scored and played good defense on LBJ too. LBJ scored 35, but maybe 6 of them were off of dunks from steals, which means that Pierce did a pretty admirable job of matching up against the league's toughest matchup. Two of the steals were by Chalmers off of Rondo.

8. It's amazing that Rondo played at all. He didn't take pain killers or a shot, he just played through it. Tough, tough kid. Having said that, he seemed kinda nonchalant on some of his passes, like the ones Chalmers stole and was overly aggressive on others. Like I said, though, the mere fact that he played, much less playing 38 minutes, is a testament to his heart.

9. Delonte West played, IMO, a great game. He was, by far, the best defender on Wade. He also shot well and was just generally active and steady. During regulation, when he was in the game guarding Wade, Wade scored 8 points (6 in the first half, with 4 fta and 2 fta in the 2nd half) while West scored 8 points. Unfortunately, in OT, Wade went crazy and blew all this nice stuff to hell. He scored 6 of the Heat's 12 OT points, with West guarding him. Ray Allen became much more productive with a backcourt of West and Allen. Ray just cannot guard Wade. I don't know if he ever could, but he sure can't now. Wade was breaking Ray's ankles all night.

10. Bosh showed up. Not big scoring numbers, other than that huge tip-in, but solid on the boards and worked hard.

11. When I saw Davis go back to the bench and sit down, I could have sworn I saw rolls on his waist. I've been hearing people talking about how he's gotten fat, but I didn't see it then. I hope I'm just not dumping my frustrations with him out on his physique, but did anybody else see that? The man is fat. You're not a baseball pitcher, Glen, you can't get away with that here. Another piss-poor game from the player people were considering for the league's 6th man award in the first half of the season. This makes him 1-8, as far as how many good playoff games he's had this year. I'm so sick of him I don't even want to buy a carton of milk, just in case I might see his picture on it. Yeah, I know I'm being harsh here, but he has really let this team down. Maybe the taste will be out of my mouth by next season. That's assuming he's here next season. That's assuming there even is a next season. The Celtics are going to have to blow this team up, just like the Lakers and Spurs do.

12. I had heard that JON will retire after this year, win or lose. I heard that earlier on in the season, not recently. I'd like to see him stick around for his second year. I've been satisfied with what we're getting out of him and impressed with the hard work he put in to recover from knee surgery and contribute this year.

13. I don't think we can bitch about the refs in this one. I thought we got a couple of "homer calls". It's about time.

I just realized, after re-reading this, that I've been speaking about the players as if it's over. Shaq should retire, Davis next year, stick around JON. That's depressing. Of course, it's not over until one team wins 4 games, but I'm realistic enough to know how tall a mountain this is to climb. But you know what? If we win in Miami (doable, although the Heat and their fans will be sky high for that) and then come home and make a statement, then it's 7th game time and anything can happen under that pressure. Bosh admitted he crumpled under the pressure of game 3, imagine him in a game 7. An injury to a Heat player, for a change (not that I'm hoping for one, I truly am not, but the more time you spend on the floor, the more the possibility of turning an ankle or whatnot increases), could be a series changer, like Perk going down in game 6 last year. Ya neva know what might break your way if you keep battling and stay in the game.

And oh, on a personal note, could we please try not to cannabalize each other here? This is stressful enough. Thanks.

bob

.

Thanks for the insightful post Bob and for the call to conviviality.

sinus007 wrote:Mrkleen,
With all due respect, your logic is kind of flawed. It's better to be pro-active than re-active. We don't know what'd happen if Doc inserted JON, how Spo'd react. Actually, JON was at the scorers table ready to go at about 6 min mark. There was plenty of time to pull him out if it didn't work.
But, as you said it yourself, we lost and now all these discussions are academic, alas.

AK

My logic isnt flawed at all. The Heat were made a run in the 4th - that is what Doc had to react to. He reacted to that by matching up Delonte on Wade - which as Bob stated, was a smart move. After doing that, he either has to sit down Ray Allen (losing any potential big 3 pointers) or sit down JON and play small against the small team the Heat had out there. He made the right decision and it was proven out by the C's getting two big shots at the end of regulation from Ray and Delonte.

This game came down to execution in regulation letting them down. Rondo missed an open layup - Pierce never got the screen on a play they have run 500 times this season, but could not run last night etc. Once it went to OT, I knew the likely outcome was that the younger legs would prevail.

I dont see how it is productive to throw Doc and Danny under the bus....but if you guys think that is what being a fan means to you - so be it.

I just checked the record of Doc's going small this season (regular season only). The combination that has played more minutes together than any other (by a wide, wide margin—515 minutes) has been Rondo, Ray, Pierce, Garnett and Davis. They have a +169 over those games, for an average gain of 0.33 points per minute over the opposition when on the floor.

If that's not small enough for anyone, the REALLY small lineup that has played the most minutes together (52.5 minutes) has been Rondo, Ray, Pierce, Green and Garnett. They have a +21, meaning they've gained even more ground on the opposition, at 0.40 points gained per minute on the floor.

In other words, small ball has been quite effective for the Celtics this season, and it was a smart thing to do against a team without a dominant center, having West rather than a fatigued Ray on Wade, and considering the benefits of (1) having two ballhandlers on the floor since Rondo was hampered and (2) having another scorer (who hit a HUGE three) on the floor at a time when they were having difficulty in getting points. VERY good move by Doc.

Sam

And I echo Bob H's plea to cut one another some slack in the area of personal attacks during this very draining period.

Thanks, and here's wishing the Celtics the very best in Game 5.

Sam

Sam, you observation and comments on small ball is some what misleading or not applicable to what occurred last night. First Baby was not on the floor playing the last 6 minutes. You had PP playing power forward mixed in with Green who does not belong at that position along with KG at center and West playing small forward. This is a big drop off in size at power forward going from BB to PP about 2 inches and 60-70 pounds and just body size. At small forward you go from PP at 6'7 to West at 6'4.

Your really small...small team statistic is also miss leading........perhaps played against inferior teams they produced this...........not Boch/James/Wade kind of team that has superior leaping ability.

Also curious what was the source for your statistics?

112288

Well Bob you are right. It was a great game, a couple of turnovers and a couple of missed shots that we could take back and we win this game. I am telling you when Ray hit that three in the fourth I thought, thank God, he is going to get hot and win this one for them. Then some stupid turnovers, and the game is lost before they could blink. KG played his heart out, as did PP and Ray. They were all over the floor. DWest was truly terrific, ice water runs in that boys veins. Rondo, I stilll feel, was feeling some of the effects of his fall, but I will not use that as an excuse, they lost this one themselves.

As far as JO is concerned, I do hope he returns for another year, he has played some great ball for us and shouldn't walk away. But, who knows if he is in any pain, and with his money, if there is pain, why not walk.

Being at that game last night was a little eery. Watching BBD and thinking this could be the last time he plays for the Celtics on the parquet. He looked overweight and out of sorts. Jeff Green, on the other hand, played well, held his own, and was the first off the bench, not BBD.

No matter what, they lost this game and now the hole is a big one to climb
out of. James was obsessed last night, you could tell right from the start of the game that he was going to score all night. They took a piece of my heart with them with that loss, I was convinced they were going to win. They looked so good at times.

I will wait for Wednesday, and am still of the belief that anything is possible and we may be back here at the Garden on the weekend for game 6.

(by the way, the ref's can't be blamed for this one, and there were a couple of homer calls, but there were more than one call for James that he just didn't deserve. He lowers that shoulder and is like a bull in a china shop, and gets away with it. One time they pulled away from him, and still got the foul.) THAT'S BASKETBALL!!!!!

After having gone thru the past few days and with the funeral of my step dad yesterday so vivid in my mind, then to sit thru the game last eve just praying for a win to ease the burden of the day, then to have the PP go solo and miss, (please get something going to the hoop).......................oh well the sun came up this morning. Life goes on.

Not going to get into it with argueing about small ball, big ball or kick players in the balls because they played poorly. It is what it is.

Hopefully Marcus's game this PM will take my mind off of a lot of things for a while anyway.

The task is daunting no doubt but to advance you need 4 wins and last I checked they only got 3.

We had the players on the court that could have won it. We blew a couple of bunnies and missed a few OPEN looks. Did not box well at key times.
Sometimes things don't work out the way we plan and hope.

Thought we were all brethren on here yet the tone of this thread SUCKS big time. Not going to debate it or argue it for in the end what matters most is this IS my (our) team win or loose. I am no less a fan today than I was yesterday or the day before that. Just a fan thats hurtin a bit for a lot of reasons beside hoops.

beat

Just heard Jackie MacMullan being interviewed on ESPN and she said she believes we've seen the end of Glen Davis as a Celtic, observing that Boston has a decision to make on him and he's had an "atrocious" series against the Heat.

112288

Statistics for five-man combinations are available at 82games.com. The site is listed on the links page for this forum and is the site most frequently (if not exclusively) cited for that type of information by posters here. Here is a link to the page listing information for the Celtics this season.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011BOS2.HTM

I understand that you're frustrated with the outcome of the game, and you're allowed to disagree with the choice of lineup used at the end of the game, but the stats do show that smaller lineups have been effective. Your assertion that they haven't worked all year isn't accurate. Plus, as others pointed out, there were multiple reasons, offensively and defensively, that going small could be considered a good move.

Again, I understand your frustration, but I don't think one point in regulation is the difference between Doc and Danny being great or being idiots, because if they had scored one more point in regulation (or gotten one more stop, one more rebound, one less turnover, one less dislocated elbow), they'd be going back to Miami 2-2 with the Heat on their heels and the momentum in Boston's corner.

Plus, unless I'm mistaken, the series is not actually over. I recognize that 3-1 is a serious hole, but it's been overcome before. Likely? No. Possible? Yes.

Outside

He probably got it from here.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10BOS14.HTM


IMO the issue with going small vs the Heat is that no one can stop LeBron AND Wade from penetrating to the rim. If you stop one, he dishes to the other and with only KG able to alter/block shots it makes it hard to get stops.

I found the end of the game very thrilling and if only Rondo's layup had rolled in instead of out we'd be talking about how it's a 3 game series.
OT was a disappointment as the C's seemed deflated.

Unfortunately, I believe this series is over, the Celtics don't have the legs or ability to stop Wade and LeBron from taking turns going one on five to win 3 in a row.