Re: NBA competition committee discusses postgame flopping penalties

by **tjmakz** Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:06 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:All of this is a BIG FACADE by the NBA....which will do nothing to address the superstars of the game who engage in this behavior on a nightly basis.

Does anyone here REALLY think they are going to call "flop" fouls on Lebron or Kobe or Wade?

What will happen is they will make a big, grandstanding effort to show how they are reforming the NBA rules and officiating. And in the end, only people like Kendrick Perkins, Glen Davis and Greg Steimsma will be effected.

These guys, who actually play hard and draw charges - will be negated by this BS new flopping rule. While Carmello and Wade and Harden continue to flop all over the court with impunity.

You are missing the point.
What Stern wants to do is penalize players after the game for flopping violations.
It's not about wheter or not superstars will get called for fouls for flopping.
How long will it take for a player to decide to stop flopping after he has been fined or suspended by the league?
I think flopping would for the most part go away very quickly if the league took a hard stance on this.

On average, the superstars probably flop way less non-superstars do.
Look at who has made drawing charges into a big part of their game.
BBD, Fisher, Battier, and many other non-superstars.
Often they do act/embellish to get calls.

Even in last nights game, Westbrook kicked out his left leg on a jump shot, made contact, then complained to the referee that he didn't get a foul call.
If Westbrook was fined or received a warning, he would probably think twice about doing that again.

by **Outside** Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:14 pm

I think that Kleen's point that this is all a facade that will amount to nothing is correct. It will be like the rule they tried to implement a couple of season ago forbidding any dissent to referee's calls. They might try something for a while, but it won't last.

by **mrkleen09** Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:18 pm

tjmakz wrote: You are missing the point.
What Stern wants to do is penalize players after the game for flopping violations.
It's not about wheter or not superstars will get called for fouls for flopping.
How long will it take for a player to decide to stop flopping after he has been fined or suspended by the league?
I think flopping would for the most part go away very quickly if the league took a hard stance on this.

I am missing the point?

Didnt the NBA make a farcical attempt to reduce complaining to the officials at the start of last season? How long did THAT last? Are you honestly trying to tell us that the superstars complain LESS than they did 2 years ago? Have you watched a Heat game?

tjmakz wrote: On average, the superstars probably flop way less non-superstars do.

Wow. Yeah. You honestly cannot debate someone who has a completely divergent opinion.....so lets just leave it there.

The biggest problem with the NBA is the "superstar" rules - which see the refs make one call for Brandon Bass - and a different call for Kobe Bryant. If you dont see the superstars taking FULL advantage of that disparity - not sure what to tell you.

by **swish** Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:54 pm

Outside,
I agree 100% with your below statement.
"I don't have a great solution, but I'm all for giving refs additional tools to help them call these plays correctly, because they get a lot of these calls wrong now. That would take away much of the incentive to flop. It would also help to increase the disincentives to flop, because there's hardly any now"

I just think that if they make a call based on the flop they missed the play. Considering the degree of difficulty it is understandable that this could happen and perhaps in those cases it is possible that a jump ball would be the correct call.
swish

by **sinus007** Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:04 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:All of this is a BIG FACADE by the NBA....which will do nothing to address the superstars of the game who engage in this behavior on a nightly basis.

Does anyone here REALLY think they are going to call "flop" fouls on Lebron or Kobe or Wade?

What will happen is they will make a big, grandstanding effort to show how they are reforming the NBA rules and officiating. And in the end, only people like Kendrick Perkins, Glen Davis and Greg Steimsma will be effected.

These guys, who actually play hard and draw charges - will be negated by this BS new flopping rule. While Carmello and Wade and Harden continue to flop all over the court with impunity.

Mrkleen,
Agree 100%. Alas.

AK

by **tjmakz** Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:09 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
tjmakz wrote: You are missing the point.
What Stern wants to do is penalize players after the game for flopping violations.
It's not about wheter or not superstars will get called for fouls for flopping.
How long will it take for a player to decide to stop flopping after he has been fined or suspended by the league?
I think flopping would for the most part go away very quickly if the league took a hard stance on this.

I am missing the point?

Didnt the NBA make a farcical attempt to reduce complaining to the officials at the start of last season? How long did THAT last? Are you honestly trying to tell us that the superstars complain LESS than they did 2 years ago? Have you watched a Heat game?

tjmakz wrote: On average, the superstars probably flop way less non-superstars do.

Wow. Yeah. You honestly cannot debate someone who has a completely divergent opinion.....so lets just leave it there.

The biggest problem with the NBA is the "superstar" rules - which see the refs make one call for Brandon Bass - and a different call for Kobe Bryant. If you dont see the superstars taking FULL advantage of that disparity - not sure what to tell you.

Superstar calls are always going to persist and I doubt that will change. You will be better off to accept that stars get more calls and move on.

Do you really want to watch Fisher/BBD/Rondo and many others fall down at the lightest touch hoping to get a foul call?

I think I was the only one on this website that supported 100% the referees clamping down with technicals last pre-season.
I wish they would have stuck with it.
Yes, I watch Heat games, Celtics, Lakers and all games.
Boston is by no means immune to acting/flopping.

by **mrkleen09** Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:14 pm

tjmakz wrote: Superstar calls are always going to persist and I doubt that will change. You will be better off to accept that stars get more calls and move on.

So lets just call BS on the exercise from the beginning. If the stars are the one's with the ball in their hands down the stretch every night, by default that means this whole big charade will result in VERY little change to bad calls effecting the results of too many games.

Another exercise in futility from the corrupt dictator, David Stern.

tjmakz wrote: Boston is by no means immune to acting/flopping.

Who said they were?

THAT right there is why you are a troll. No one is even talking about the Celtics here.....yet there it is. Surprised

by **tjmakz** Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:21 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
tjmakz wrote: Superstar calls are always going to persist and I doubt that will change. You will be better off to accept that stars get more calls and move on.

So lets just call BS on the exercise from the beginning. If the stars are the one's with the ball in their hands down the stretch every night, by default that means this whole big charade will result in VERY little change to bad calls effecting the results of too many games.

Another exercise in futility from the corrupt dictator, David Stern.

tjmakz wrote: Boston is by no means immune to acting/flopping.

Who said they were?

THAT right there is why you are a troll. No one is even talking about the Celtics here.....yet there it is.

You mention Kobe/LeBron/Wade, why don't you list Rondo or Pierce in that group?
What is your answer to the NBA problems?
You complain, make accusations but never offer a solution.
Do you think that flopping is not a problem?
Since you seem to dislike the superstar calls, how would the league change that?

by **mrkleen09** Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:25 pm

I offered PLENTY of solutions in this very thread.

The fact that you are too busy listening to your own voice to actually read what was posted before you - is your problem.

Call the game fairly. Call the rules as they are written. Call traveling. Call carrying the ball. Call players who kick their legs out on jumpers for offensive fouls.

As a league, address blown calls and detail your efforts to fix it in the future. Discipline refs who continue to blow games. Make refs explain how one team gets 15, 20 or more FT vs. their opponents. Make the game more transparent.

Clean house with all the old, washed up, convicted felons like Joey Crawford, Scott Foster, Dick Bavetta.

Anything else?

by **tjmakz** Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:57 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:I offered PLENTY of solutions in this very thread.

The fact that you are too busy listening to your own voice to actually read what was posted before you - is your problem.

Call the game fairly. Call the rules as they are written. Call traveling. Call carrying the ball. Call players who kick their legs out on jumpers for offensive fouls.

As a league, address blown calls and detail your efforts to fix it in the future. Discipline refs who continue to blow games. Make refs explain how one team gets 15, 20 or more FT vs. their opponents. Make the game more transparent.

Clean house with all the old, washed up, convicted felons like Joey Crawford, Scott Foster, Dick Bavetta.

Anything else?

I went back and re-read your first post in the thread and you did make many suggestions.
I stand corrected.

Most of what you are complaining about is not going to change.
At some point you need to move on and enjoy the game.
The small things that can be tweeked to make the game beter, they should make those changes.

HS and NCAA players now carry the ball like they do in the NBA.
They will never clamp down on a rule like this.

I love the NBA and hope the NBA makes the game easier for the referees to officiate.

by **mrkleen09** Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:11 pm

I dont need any advice on enjoying the game...but thanks.

70+ times a year, I have nothing to say about the refs. On occasion, they refs decide the outcome of a game. That is NOT the job of the refs. They best refs are those who dont have the need to insert their own stamp on the game, and instead let the game play out on its own terms.

There are TOO MANY egos in the NBA ref corp these days....they need to clean house on many of the old timers. They have too much baggage to do a good job...and to many instances from the past where their judgment has been called into question to be trusted.

You tell me how Scott Foster - a CONVICTED FELON is a lead official in the NBA.....a job which is based on honesty, impartiality and fairness?

If nothing is going to change...then why bother to call forth the bogus "competition committee"

by **Sam** Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:46 pm

Just to clear the air a bit, there are no so-called "trolls" on this board. We happen to have people whose allegiance is not with the Celtics, and we have welcomed them for their knowledge and their forbearance in treading a fine line when they post on a "foreign" board.

I do monitor every word that's posted, and I try to act quickly if I feel troll-like behavior is in danger of occurring. Simply mentioning that the Celtics are not immune to flopping is not only NOT trolling; it is actually an understatement because the Celtics actually INVENTED the flop. Specifically Frank Ramsey, with Red Auerbach's approval. One thing I do try mightily to prevent is name-calling.

This is a really exciting period for the Celtics and the NBA and, therefore, for this board. I hope we can focus on continuing the great information and really interesting perspectives that are being exchanged as we all move on to more positive times.

I appreciate it.

Sam

by **bobheckler** Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:26 pm

beat wrote:Dave Cowens Didn't Like Flopping
Cowens thought a player who flopped to the court to draw a charge was the worst kind of cheat. So he once flattened Houston Rockets guard Mike Newlin in a violent but poignant demonstration. Newlin was a master of the flop. Twice in a game in 1976, Newlin drew charges on Cowens this way. So later in the game, an irate Cowens sprinted at Newlin, slamming him blind-side with both forearms and splattering Newlin along the floor.

``Now that's a FU**ING foul!'' Cowens told referee Bill Jones.

Cowens was branded a savage for that stunt, so he followed it up with a lengthy letter to the editor in the Boston Globe. Cowens wrote that ``fraudulent, deceiving and flagrant acts of pretending to be fouled when little or no contact is made is just as unsportsmanlike as knocking a player to the floor. ... This, in plain words, is what I call `cheating.'" Cowens forwarded copies of the letter to the NBA's supervisor of officials and Newlin. Newlin already got the message; he said Cowens' body-block still stung a month later.

Think we all remember this....

beat

beat,

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but I was at that game. Floor seats, 2nd row, mid-court. BY FAR the best seats I've ever had anywhere for anything ever! I heard every word, including the ones Cowens was barking at the refs after Newlin's second flop (he didn't say anything after the first flop. He just shot Newlin a look of pure disgust and walked away. After the second flop he started chewing on the refs and then, right after doing that, sprinted across the court and launched Newlin into the next county).

I'm very proud of being at that game and seeing Cowens blast Newlin over the scorer's table. It's not because I hate Newlin, I actually liked him (he all but begged to come play for Boston), it's just because that's the type of smashmouth basketball I loved about Cowens.

bob

.

by **Matty** Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:14 pm

For Realz..

the folks we have on this site ought to collaberate on a couple books, one inspired by Bobs repeating the above belived story..

a book by fans describing various plays & actions taken by Celtics ove the years- from the vantage point of the fans

another that i suggested a few yrs ago entitled, "lets us tell you a story" again, a fans pespective, however regarding Red..

both could be classic reads if ever done..

just sayin...

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