When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win

Well the Miami Heat are champions..............BIG DEAL!

Their championship comes with an asterisk ........66 game season.......sorry, but for me even if the Celtics would have won #18 it would have been tainted.......and so is Miami's championship.

We all know about Eric Spoelstra.........the dumbest coach in the NBA........and the most arrogant since Phil Jackson...........but right behind him is Scott Brooks of OKC. I had my suspicions about him when he lost to the LA Fakers in the Western Finals.......but loosing to Miami...........a Bull Shxt team.........where even Kendrick Perkins criticized him after game 4 loss after being up 17 points for reacting to Miami's changes instead of sticking to what was working.

Well as I stated in my opening Head Line - When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win ............and that was the tale of the NBA Finals for 2012.


I might as well end with my thoughts with how I feel about the NBA.......and Stern.

Through its marketing hype.......... its refereers (As pointed out by MrKleen) working the game, the NBA has now surpassed WWF as the most fake sports product in the world! Let me tell you why!

1) What sport rehires personnel who are convicted felon's or who hang out with convicted felon's ........See post by MrKleen.....where their job can affect outcomes of games!

2) What sport names their MVP prior to playoffs..............Does that not put pressure on calls for and against that player. LJ had all the calls go his way this playoff run........Why..........because he was MVP? Case in point and
ONE OF MANY........Finals game #2 closing seconds......LJ HACKS DURANTIN ACT OF SHOOTING.......NO CALL!!!!!!!!!

3) The NBA financially may be in trouble and Stern needs as much LJ merchandise sold ....and LJ marketed as possible to find additional revenue! Goes to what I said in point #2........How can the NBA reap Tens of $Millions of dollars on merchandise on an MVP who looses in the Finals..........His dollar earnings begin to diminish after time....and in time Durant will be used in the very same way by Stern!

Fans and the media need to wake up about the NBA and how it conducts its business and how it manages the game and needs to put pressure and accountability on Stern on these issues.

112288

Loosers deck of cards.--------- Race card,Gender card,and Conspiracy card.
swish

Stern got what he wanted. Lebron is now the king of the world.

Yeah!!!!

Wonder if they even sold out the Miami arena last night?

Seems not a whole lot care.

NBA is like a circus now with a clown leading the show.

Guess Miami won. Big surprise there.

Wonder when real basketball will return? If ever.

beat

Wow, what big time sour grapes from 112288.
From what I have heard from people in the NBA Spolestra is very well respected in the league.
Pat Riley has called Spolestra one of the most intelligent people he has ever met. It speaks volumes that Riley hired him when he could have hired a number of other veteran coaches to coach Miami.

There is no asterisk with this championship due to a 66 game schedule. That is just nonsensical.

LeBron is the best player in the NBA and Miami deserved to win the title.
Hatred for LeBron by some people does not diminish anything that he and the Heat accomplished.

The Stern and referee bashing is an old and tired subject. Move on and give credit where credit is due. The largest market team in the NBA (Knicks) have been a doormat for 15 years. I guess Stern has orchestrated that too...

?

Labeling someone intelligent does not always transcend into being successful. There are many people who I know that have graduated the finest business schools in the country (Wharton/Harvard) and are great analyst's and number crunchers who COULD NOT RUN AN ICE CREAM STAND! Spolestra is one of those individuals. He was a video coach...preparing and breaking down films. He was given 3 great players and when facing mediocre coaching he wins.....put him against better coaching....he looses.

Who is Pat Riley...he was a failure in NY!

What does the failure of the Knicks have to do with this subject.......and the NBA........the Knicks stewardship has been bad for 15 years with idiot coachs and GM like Isiah Thomas.....who happens to be racist!

Cannot turn a blind eye on what I and others believe is tainting of the NBA with the officiating! I call it as I see it....its turned into a circus!Just ask Ray Allen, Doc Rivers about their T' Fouls in game one......you call that legit!

112288

1122888

112288:

You knew TJ was going to sanction the Heat championship at all costs since his messiah from the 80's Riley is now the puppet master in South Beach that got Wade to tamper with James and Bosh while they were under contract to other teams.

MD!

Changing MC Hammer's lyrics slightly, "The NBA's not too legit. Stern should quit!

MD!

MD

I like that!

112288

People sometimes start off as videocoach, then work their way up to assistant coach, then work up to head coach. Isn't working your way up the ladder the way it is supposed to be done?

Riley has been a successful player, coach and GM for the past 45 years in the NBA. I take his word that Spolestra is a very good coach over people who say he COULD NOT RUN AN ICE CREAM STAND!

If Stern was so hell bent on getting the big market teams in the NBA, you would realize that one of his premier franchises has been terrible. Stern would love to have had NY in the championship over the last 15 years.

MDCelticsFan wrote:112288:

You knew TJ was going to sanction the Heat championship at all costs since his messiah from the 80's Riley is now the puppet master in South Beach that got Wade to tamper with James and Bosh while they were under contract to other teams.

MD!

If you think players don't talk to other players and being on the same team then you are naive.
How many times do you think Deron Williams and Dwight Howard have talked about being on the same team?

For the most part, I agree with TJ's overall viewpoint but with a few dissents.

I'm not a big fan of Spoelstra. I've seen him outcoached too many times, Pat Riley's opinion notwithstanding.

I was a fan of Scott Brooks, but his lack of playoff coaching experience came out in this series. Spoelstra had a year's worth of Finals experience already.

LeBron had one helluva series. In fact, he had one helluva series against us. Does he receive the benefit of "LeBron calls"? You betcha, but what's new about that? You coach and play against reality, not a video game where all rules are applied equally.

There is an asterisk with this season. There has to be, it was an unusual season, but again I say "so what"? From our perspective, do we really think our older players would have performed better with a longer season (with all the wear-and-tear that brings) vs a shorter season with more back-to-backs and even a back-to-back-to-back? Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I think. What reason would we have to believe that Pierce would not have dinged his knee in practice if we had an 82-game season with a full training camp? Would Ray not have gotten bone spurs in his ankle if he had played an additional 544 minutes (34mpg x 16 more games)? What about Bradley's shoulders? Would MORE games have helped him? Our Grinders did very well, very well indeed, despite our physical handicaps. We did something the OKC Thunder wanted to do but didn't, we made a series of it. Miami struggled against us, but put their sneakers on the throats of the Thunder and never took them off until it was over. I give them credit for doing that. They didn't want to go back to OKC and so they went out and won 4 games in a row against a team with a better regular season record. And yeah, that better season record of OKC's was in this shortened, asterisked season. Should we asterisk that too or say every team faced the same hurdles and they just overcame theirs better than the Heat did theirs?

One point where TJ and I don't agree is on his final point about NY. NY hasn't fielded a truly championship competitive team in a long time. The fact that they're not winning championships does not logically follow that there must be no corruption. This isn't Iraq during the Saddam Hussein days, or Iran now. Stern isn't, assuming he does at all, going to make a team a champion when everybody knows they have no shot. He may want Michael Jordan to win a championship in Charlotte, or for GSW (who has The Logo as an advisor) to win championships, but they have to give Stern something to work with first. Perception is Truth, and he doesn't want people to think it's rigged even if it is and certainly not if it isn't. You still have to put the talent on the floor and play hard. The question is "if you do, will the league and the refs give it to you?". I generally don't subscribe to conspiracy theories (the only conspiracies that can keep a secret for long are ones where there are only two people in it and one of them is dead) and I don't to this one, but the 1st two games of our series against Miami did shake my confidence a bit. I've never seen such blatant bias in referreeing at any level before, including all the NBA playoff games I've watched over the decades, and I hope I never do again. Was that Stern's directive, or just one or more of the refs getting tired of KG mouthing off to them and Rondo throwing balls at one of their colleagues?

bob


.

TJ

How can we take your word about Riley....as you are a HOMER from LA!

Pretty hard to not win a championship when given superstars like Magic...KAJ!

What did he do in NY........He quit!!!!! In 1995, Riley resigned from the Knicks via fax to become the head coach of the Miami Heat..........A sign of a spineless jelly fish!!!!!!!

112288

112288 wrote:TJ

How can we take your word about Riley....as you are a HOMER from LA!

Pretty hard to not win a championship when given superstars like Magic...KAJ!

What did he do in NY........He quit!!!!! In 1995, Riley resigned from the Knicks via fax to become the head coach of the Miami Heat..........A sign of a spineless jelly fish!!!!!!!

112288

I brought up Riley to give an example of a very well respected NBA figure who fully has supported Spoelstra.
Should I just have used my assessment of Spoelstra?
By bashing every achievement from LeBron, Spoelstra to Riley, you further show that you are closed-minded or just bitter.

TJ

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."

Rudyard Kipling

112288

112288 wrote:TJ

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."

Rudyard Kipling

112288

112288,

Actually, Twain lived and died in Connecticut, traveled to California ("the coldest winter I ever felt was the summer in San Francisco").

So, they can meet after all.

bob

.

Bob,

That can only be achieved if you're ................."Following the Equator"

or as the NBA according to Stern...."Honesty is the best policy - when there is money in it."

112288

Hi,
Here're a few thoughts on the topic.
1. Mia did win the Finals, fair and square
2. Mia did get a free pass ("Go to Finals") from the refs
3. LJ does get preferential treatment from the refs with the exception of perhaps game 3 and 4 in ECF
4. LJ is a great player who did show up in the playoffs
5. Spoelstra is a mediocre coach. When you have 2.5 super-stars you don't have to be on the level of Pop, Doc et al
6. Brooks did a very poor job in the Finals. I don't follow OKC, don't watch their games unless they play Celtics, so can't say much about him.
7. OKC looked like a collection of very talented players. I bet that if they had half of the cohesion that Celtics had in the playoffs they'd blow Mia out of the water. Also, they have 2.5 generals (KD, RW and JH) none of which has 100% control of the team.
8. Perk looked totally lost in the finals.
9. I'm happy Celtics didn't trade RR for RW. Westbrook is a scorer in PG disguise. Sure he can drop 30+ points any given game but he doesn't come even close to RR's ability to control a game, control his team and control, to a certain degree, his opponent.
10. Not really related to the topic. Bringing the NYK analogy is pure demagogy, IMO.

Just my $.02

AK

112288,

You're an incredible contributor to this board, justly the Poster of the Year for all your efforts, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, but this does come off as sour grapes. I've already posted on another thread that I dislike Miami and think that LeBron's antics before he played a game for the Heat were horrendous, but there is no asterisk or taint to Miami's title or LeBron's achievements this postseason. He's been nothing short of astounding.

I'm also on record saying that I think Spoelstra is a good (not great) coach who has done a really good job with Miami. I agree with Bob that Brooks is a good coach who got overmatched on the Finals stage. I think he's capable of winning a title with this group. They are really, really young, and so is he. They're all capable of learning from this experience and coming back better.

To question Brooks' coaching ability because OKC lost to the Lakers in 2010 is stunning. First off, it was the first round, not the conference finals. If you think Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka are young now (they're all 23 or younger), what were they two years ago? It was OKC's first time in the playoffs, and they're supposed to beat the reigning NBA champs who went on to win the title again that year? Demonizing the Lakers and Phil Jackson is one thing, but using it to stain anyone who loses to the Lakers is nonsensical. The fact is, the young Thunder pushed the Lakers to six games in 2010, giving a glimpse of what this rising team could accomplish. They've lost to the eventual NBA champions all three years they've made the playoffs, each time going further to do so (first round, conference finals, NBA finals). Brooks has done a good job with these guys.

I understand the frustration over the reffing in the series against Miami, but I don't reflexively turn that into a conspiracy theory. Some calls look different depending on which team you're rooting for, and some were genuinely bad calls (or non-calls) that went against the Celtics. But I can't agree with those who totally ignore calls that went against Miami, claim any questionable call was a bad call against Boston, and promote egregious calls as evidence of a conspiracy. Did Miami get the benefit of the calls in that series? I'd say yes. But it's not as lopsided as you think, and as I've pointed out on multiple occasions, championship teams overcome bad calls, and it's a team's own fault if they put themselves in a position to be undone by a bad call. To call the game fakery because Miami won the title is just wrong.

And calling Spoelstra the most arrogant coach since Phil Jackson? Really? He doesn't come off as arrogant to me, and even if he did, the paragon of arrogance was none other than the greatest coach ever, Red Auerbach. What do you think Red's demeanor would be if he were coaching the Heat?

It sounds to me like the only acceptable outcome was Boston winning the title, and anything else is due to conspiracy and corruption in the NBA. Being a fan of your team is good, but demonizing everyone else and trivializing other teams' accomplishments isn't.

I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh. I deeply appreciate the passion of Celtic fans expressed on this forum, and I only want to provide an honest assessment of an instance when I think you crossed over the line to irrational fanaticism. I expect we'll have numerous topics we'll agree on in the future, but we'll have to disagree on this one.

Best regards,

Outside

sinus,

8. Perk looked totally lost in the finals.

Perk was hurt (once again) in the playoffs:

OKC's Kendrick Perkins played with injury throughout playoffs

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports – 4 hours ago

MIAMI – Oklahoma City center Kendrick Perkins played with a partially torn groin in the final three rounds of the playoffs, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Perkins mobility was severely limited in the NBA Finals after suffering the injury in Game 4 of the Thunder's opening-round sweep of the Dallas Mavericks.

For the playoffs, Perkins averaged 4.7 points and 6.2 rebounds in 20 games. Considered one of the top post defenders in the league, Perkins struggled to jump and move laterally in the Finals against Miami.

gyso

OutSide,

No problem. I do not take any posters comments personal. That is why this is a great Forum. It's just my thoughts and beliefs on the subject. You can accept, or reject .........it's your prerogative!

About sour grapes.......if what I pointed out or referenced had no truth or validity ......then it becomes sour grapes.........however......if what i had pointed out is backed up by others including experts in the game or covering the game..........then there could be some truth to it .........then you cannot call it sour grapes.

Otherwise thanks for the complements......my check to you is on its way!

Just to add, I just want the NBA to get it right! Do not care about anything else. The Integrity of the game is being called into question especially the Celtics game #1 against the Heat. The experts, coaches, sports writers were questioning the calls in game #1. Go back to Boston.com/ Boston Herald/ Hoops World/ ESPNBOSTON.com and you will see comments from across the country. I'll reference Doc as a starting point on this subject!

As far as conspiracy goes..........I have live long enough to know anything is possible...it's when you do not raise the eye brow and question....is what leads to the cancer spreading! Hey who thought NBA ref's fixed games until Tim Donaghy surfaced! BELOW IS AN INTERESTING ARTICLE

Are NBA Basketball Games Fixed?
By Allen Moody, About.com Guide

Are NBA Basketball Games Fixed?

Former NBA official Tim Donaghy has caused quite a stir with his allegations that Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Sacramento Kings and the Los Angeles Lakers was fixed to ensure a seventh game. Even if his claims turn out to be unprovable there are plenty of people who will give Donaghy the benefit of the doubt, as fix or not, the game is widely recognized as the worst officiated game in recent memory. The game was called so poorly it prompted a letter from Ralph Nader to NBA Commissioner David Stern.

In wake of Donaghy's allegations, a number of people have wondered about the integrity of basketball games and are asking if the games are really fixed. If you ask Jonathan Gibbs, a graduate student at the Stanford University, the answer is that it's highly likely.

Gibbs' Research

Gibbs drew on the research of Justin Wolfers, a professor of business and public policy at Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, who did a similar paper on the possibility of point-shaving taking place at the college level. (See Are NCAA Basketball Games Fixed?) Gibbs looked at NBA point spread tendencies to determine if there were any unnatural occurrences taking place. Just as Wolfers found that large favorites in college basketball didn't cover the point spread a disproportionate number of times, Gibbs found similar findings in the NBA in his paper titled "Point Shaving in the NBA: An Economic Analysis of the National Basketball Association's Point Spread Betting Market.

"The premise of this paper was to empirically examine the NBA betting market to test, if in spite of the large monetary compensation NBA players earn, whether there is evidence of cheating through point shaving. Generally, the informed bettors participating in the NBA betting market are efficient in allocating point spreads to reflect differing abilities between teams," Gibbs stated in his thesis. "However, the asymmetric incentives, caused by the act of setting the betting line, are being exploited.
"Both data sets provide strong statistical evidence to suggest that this phenomenon, traditionally associated solely with unpaid college basketball players, exists in the professional ranks. The importance of this finding is that through publicizing point shaving's existence, the probability of its detection increases, correspondingly increasing its costs, and decreasing its incidence."

Gibbs studies NBA point spread date from 1993-94 to 2006-07 and found that underdogs covered the spread 50.05-percent of the time, winning 7822 times, losing 7805 times and there were 232 pushes. But larger underdogs, where it's generally considered easier to fix games, covered the point spread at a higher rate. Underdogs of 10 or more points covered the spread 52.15-percent of the time (1,372-1,259-39), while 13-point and greater underdogs covered the spread 53.04-percent of the time (462-409-20).
112288

I don't get this asterisk stuff. That's amateurish fan bull. The season of 1998-99 consisted of 50 games. I looked up the Celtics' record and didn't see it adorned with even one asterisk.

I'm rather bemused looking at some of the threads lately and noting that the departure of the Celtics really, really seems to have created some serious lashing out at almost anything that moves.

I said, the instant, that the Celtics exited the playoffs, that I recognized and felt very badly about their misfortune. My next sentence was something like "Onward and upward." I hardly recognize that the finals existed and didn't watch a game because I'm a Celtics fan—apparently more than a basketball fan. I don't like Lebron for a variety of reasons, including the fact that he represents almost everything I despise about the direction in which pro ball is headed. But I don't see that as any reason for me to seek out ways to belittle him. For myself (and I can't speak for anyone else), I believe that's petty.

Same with Stern and the refs. I hate it when a ref's call goes against the Celtics, but I see a lot of calls go against opponents—including Lebron. I feel the main reason Lebron avoids fouls is because he doesn't commit many; and that may possibly condition refs not to expect him to foul. They're only human.

I'm very much enjoying the threads about what happens over the summer in Celtic Land. I'm very enthusiastic about the Celtics' possibilities in the future. I intend to deal with whatever befalls them and always to look forward to positive outcomes. As for the threads that involve lashing out, I have to read them because I'm the moderator. And I recognize and thoroughly support everyone's right to express his or her views, as long as it remains civil and posters are not negatively characterized or given names by other posters. That's about all I can say concerning those threads.

Sam

Sour grapes is calling Spoelstra the dumbest coach in the NBA and saying that couldn't run an ice cream stand.
Sour grapes is saying the Heat's title should come with an asterisk because of the 66 game schedule. (Would we hear the same thing if the Celtics won the title last night?)
Sour grapes is bringing up tax convictions from referees which occured almost 20 years ago.
Sour grapes is only mentioning the calls that went in the Heat's favor but ignoring calls against the Heat including Wade 3rd foul call yesterday.
Sour grapes is belittling Riley, Spoelstra and James while mentioning nothing positive.

Sam,

If the asterisk means or does not mean anything....who cares... It was not a complete season. If the NBA chooses to use an asterisk or not to signify something beyond the norm, it is their business.........If those who want to take comfort in not assigning an asterisk, and believe in peace and harmony ...sun shine & lollypops and a 66 game season.....great and good for you.........But it Was Not 82 Game Season!

Things can happen between game 67 & game 82...that can materially affect the outcome of a team standings or a players success or failure. My personal belief...if the Celtics had an 82 game season with the injuries they sustained, the probability of them entering the Eastern Conference Finals is next to nil.


112288