When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
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gyso
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sinus007
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112288
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Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
TJ
Oh you are such a creative and deep thinker!
112288
Oh you are such a creative and deep thinker!
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
112288 wrote:OutSide,
No problem. I do not take any posters comments personal. That is why this is a great Forum. It's just my thoughts and beliefs on the subject. You can accept, or reject .........it's your prerogative!
About sour grapes.......if what I pointed out or referenced had no truth or validity ......then it becomes sour grapes.........however......if what i had pointed out is backed up by others including experts in the game or covering the game..........then there could be some truth to it .........then you cannot call it sour grapes.
Otherwise thanks for the complements......my check to you is on its way!
Just to add, I just want the NBA to get it right! Do not care about anything else. The Integrity of the game is being called into question especially the Celtics game #1 against the Heat. The experts, coaches, sports writers were questioning the calls in game #1. Go back to Boston.com/ Boston Herald/ Hoops World/ ESPNBOSTON.com and you will see comments from across the country. I'll reference Doc as a starting point on this subject!
As far as conspiracy goes..........I have live long enough to know anything is possible...it's when you do not raise the eye brow and question....is what leads to the cancer spreading! Hey who thought NBA ref's fixed games until Tim Donaghy surfaced! BELOW IS AN INTERESTING ARTICLE
Are NBA Basketball Games Fixed?
By Allen Moody, About.com Guide
Are NBA Basketball Games Fixed?
Former NBA official Tim Donaghy has caused quite a stir with his allegations that Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Sacramento Kings and the Los Angeles Lakers was fixed to ensure a seventh game. Even if his claims turn out to be unprovable there are plenty of people who will give Donaghy the benefit of the doubt, as fix or not, the game is widely recognized as the worst officiated game in recent memory. The game was called so poorly it prompted a letter from Ralph Nader to NBA Commissioner David Stern.
In wake of Donaghy's allegations, a number of people have wondered about the integrity of basketball games and are asking if the games are really fixed. If you ask Jonathan Gibbs, a graduate student at the Stanford University, the answer is that it's highly likely.
Gibbs' Research
Gibbs drew on the research of Justin Wolfers, a professor of business and public policy at Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, who did a similar paper on the possibility of point-shaving taking place at the college level. (See Are NCAA Basketball Games Fixed?) Gibbs looked at NBA point spread tendencies to determine if there were any unnatural occurrences taking place. Just as Wolfers found that large favorites in college basketball didn't cover the point spread a disproportionate number of times, Gibbs found similar findings in the NBA in his paper titled "Point Shaving in the NBA: An Economic Analysis of the National Basketball Association's Point Spread Betting Market.
"The premise of this paper was to empirically examine the NBA betting market to test, if in spite of the large monetary compensation NBA players earn, whether there is evidence of cheating through point shaving. Generally, the informed bettors participating in the NBA betting market are efficient in allocating point spreads to reflect differing abilities between teams," Gibbs stated in his thesis. "However, the asymmetric incentives, caused by the act of setting the betting line, are being exploited.
"Both data sets provide strong statistical evidence to suggest that this phenomenon, traditionally associated solely with unpaid college basketball players, exists in the professional ranks. The importance of this finding is that through publicizing point shaving's existence, the probability of its detection increases, correspondingly increasing its costs, and decreasing its incidence."
Gibbs studies NBA point spread date from 1993-94 to 2006-07 and found that underdogs covered the spread 50.05-percent of the time, winning 7822 times, losing 7805 times and there were 232 pushes. But larger underdogs, where it's generally considered easier to fix games, covered the point spread at a higher rate. Underdogs of 10 or more points covered the spread 52.15-percent of the time (1,372-1,259-39), while 13-point and greater underdogs covered the spread 53.04-percent of the time (462-409-20).
112288
The article you are referencing is from a website called sportsgambling.com
http://sportsgambling.about.com/od/basketball/a/nbafixed.htm
You could have included the next paragraph in the article which is below:
Arguments Against Gibbs
The most common complaint against Gibbs' findings is that it fails to take into consideration "garbage time" in the final few minutes of a lopsided game. These complaints say that the team who is ahead is more likely to take its starters out, while the team trailing will leave its top players in longer in hopes of a miracle comeback and can turn an 18-point deficit into an 11-point deficit in several minutes.
Naturally, the other claim is that NBA players simply make too much money to take a chance of getting caught in a point-shaving scandal. A player who is in the position of being able to influence the point spread is likely a player who makes more than $1 million a year and has even less incentive to risk it all for trying not to cover the point spread.
tjmakz- Posts : 4278
Join date : 2010-05-19
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
That is not relevant as it relates to my argument about officiating in the NBA, not NBA players shaving games.
We are talking about the NBA Ref's who can and have dictated a game's outcome and score, not an NBA player throwing a game. The scoring stats sighted in the report can easily be manipulated by a Ref then by a player. If it is garbage time....the fate of the game has long been decided....perhaps by the Ref.
The main point is Tim Donaghy is a convicted felon for what I just started! I stand by the facts!
112288
We are talking about the NBA Ref's who can and have dictated a game's outcome and score, not an NBA player throwing a game. The scoring stats sighted in the report can easily be manipulated by a Ref then by a player. If it is garbage time....the fate of the game has long been decided....perhaps by the Ref.
The main point is Tim Donaghy is a convicted felon for what I just started! I stand by the facts!
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Yes Donaghy is a convicted felon.
He has and still is a loser.
That doesn't mean the NBA is fixed or rigged.
112288, do you think LeBron is the best player in the NBA?
He has and still is a loser.
That doesn't mean the NBA is fixed or rigged.
112288, do you think LeBron is the best player in the NBA?
tjmakz- Posts : 4278
Join date : 2010-05-19
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
No
KB...You man on LA...He does everything LJ cannot!
112288
KB...You man on LA...He does everything LJ cannot!
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
112288 wrote:No
KB...You man on LA...He does everything LJ cannot!
112288
LOL.
KB will probably drop out of the top 10 or more this year.
tjmakz- Posts : 4278
Join date : 2010-05-19
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Gyso,
Thanks for the info. I didn't know that about Perk.
----------------
As for fixing games in NBA, after ECF this year I have no doubt that it exists. I just don't know if it's the league or refs or both.
AK
Thanks for the info. I didn't know that about Perk.
----------------
As for fixing games in NBA, after ECF this year I have no doubt that it exists. I just don't know if it's the league or refs or both.
AK
sinus007- Posts : 2652
Join date : 2009-10-22
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
TJ
He has done it consistently for 10 + years and especially in big time championship situations. KB had a bum knee and other leg ailments.......but he is one of the all time best game in and game out when a win is needed!
I can see that his stats are really going down with only a 27.9 pts a game this year!
112288
He has done it consistently for 10 + years and especially in big time championship situations. KB had a bum knee and other leg ailments.......but he is one of the all time best game in and game out when a win is needed!
I can see that his stats are really going down with only a 27.9 pts a game this year!
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Bob-ditto on your remarks. We lost, period. I love the Celtics more than you guys could ever imagine. But, we did lose an 18 point lead in game 2, sure the referring was disgusting, and LB's remarks that 'I DON'T FOUL OUT" were repulsive. But. he played one hell of a series, deserved to win, and that is all I will say. Further discussion on who is better Spoelstra or Brooks, Riley or ?,
that is all baloney.
112288, Look forward, the best is yet to come. Rebuilding can be fun. Just remember one thing, we follow the greatest team in basketball. History is on our side. We have had so many great players on this team that we can pump our chest forever. So. big deal, Miami won one title. See you next year, the Celtics do not go away easy.! Let it go. Let's move on to the
draft and trades??????
Rosalie
that is all baloney.
112288, Look forward, the best is yet to come. Rebuilding can be fun. Just remember one thing, we follow the greatest team in basketball. History is on our side. We have had so many great players on this team that we can pump our chest forever. So. big deal, Miami won one title. See you next year, the Celtics do not go away easy.! Let it go. Let's move on to the
draft and trades??????
Rosalie
RosalieTCeltics- Posts : 41267
Join date : 2009-10-17
Age : 77
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Right on Rosalie!
112288
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
112288,
I understand it was a truncated season, at the beginning of which the conventional wisdom was that the fewer games would help older teams like the Celtics to be fresher.
I simply don't understand what the implications of the shortened season are supposed to be. Every team knew in advance that it would be a short season or no season. It seems to me that all operated within the same parameters.
You've read about Red Auerbach as much as anyone. Tell me he wouldn't have found some way to work the sort season to the Celtics' advantage. As far as I'm concerned, if someone's that crafty, he deserves to benefit from it (as long as he doesn't do anything illegal).
So I agree that it was a shortened season. My question is simple. So what? Should the Heat be given only 3/4 of the championship trophy? Should they be ordered to play next season with only three limbs apiece? Some people seem to be implying that the luster of the championship is somehow besmirched because it was a shortened season. Would it have been similarly besmirched if the Celtics had prevailed? I truly don't get the implication, to the point where it does seem to have the tinge of grapes that are a little over-the-hill.
At first, I just dismissed the "asterisk" discussion out of hand as something that didn't interest me on grounds of irrelevance. But now, I am so mystified about the nature of the negative implication that I'm truly curious. I must be missing something major!
Sam
I understand it was a truncated season, at the beginning of which the conventional wisdom was that the fewer games would help older teams like the Celtics to be fresher.
I simply don't understand what the implications of the shortened season are supposed to be. Every team knew in advance that it would be a short season or no season. It seems to me that all operated within the same parameters.
You've read about Red Auerbach as much as anyone. Tell me he wouldn't have found some way to work the sort season to the Celtics' advantage. As far as I'm concerned, if someone's that crafty, he deserves to benefit from it (as long as he doesn't do anything illegal).
So I agree that it was a shortened season. My question is simple. So what? Should the Heat be given only 3/4 of the championship trophy? Should they be ordered to play next season with only three limbs apiece? Some people seem to be implying that the luster of the championship is somehow besmirched because it was a shortened season. Would it have been similarly besmirched if the Celtics had prevailed? I truly don't get the implication, to the point where it does seem to have the tinge of grapes that are a little over-the-hill.
At first, I just dismissed the "asterisk" discussion out of hand as something that didn't interest me on grounds of irrelevance. But now, I am so mystified about the nature of the negative implication that I'm truly curious. I must be missing something major!
Sam
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Eddy Curry has a ring. I'm so proud of him that finally, after all these years of busting his ass and having nothing to show for it, he's got a ring.
Hard work does pay off.
Hard work does pay off.
steve3344- Posts : 4175
Join date : 2009-10-27
Age : 74
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Sam,
I know, you have to play the hand that's dealt. So we get back to normal basketball for the next few years until a work stoppage again. Let's bury this dog and move on.
112288
I know, you have to play the hand that's dealt. So we get back to normal basketball for the next few years until a work stoppage again. Let's bury this dog and move on.
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Outside, Bob H, sinus007 - I agree with you 100% and TJ 90%.
Solution to all these disputes =winning number 18. KG, please come back!
Solution to all these disputes =winning number 18. KG, please come back!
Last edited by worcester on Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : sp)
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
I don't know about the asterisk thing. I just looked up the finals from the 1998-1999 NBA season (50 games) and couldn't find one there.
Actually, there was no such thing as the 1998-1999 NBA season. All the games were played in 1999.
Actually, there was no such thing as the 1998-1999 NBA season. All the games were played in 1999.
_________________
gyso- Posts : 23027
Join date : 2009-10-13
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Speaking of Mark Twain, reading his "How to Tell a Story..." essay recently has been quite an eye opener, especially when he writes of his many experiences with "Mental Telegraphy." Classic Twain. Available for free on Kindle.
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Thanks Worcester.
My family usually stops 2X a year in Hartford to check out his museum.
112288
My family usually stops 2X a year in Hartford to check out his museum.
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
LUCKY for us that Clemens invested in a typography machine that drove him broke. The need to make money kept him writing for years.
Re: When You Have Two Poor Coaches Against One Another In The Finals - Somebody Has To Win
Worcester
That is right! Good point!
112288
That is right! Good point!
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
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