WHY KRIS JOSEPH DESERVES THE 15TH CELTICS ROSTER SPOT PART I & II

WEEI
By Ben Rohrbach

PART I

Montreal manufactures hockey players, and business is good. Except if you’re Kris Joseph.

So, when the late second-round Celtics pick in this summer’s NBA draft arrived stateside as a 17-year-old high school junior in search of a basketball education, the jet lag lasted a little longer than usual.

“He was pretty lazy,” admitted Clinton Perrow, who coached Joseph for two prep seasons at Archbishop Carroll (Washington, D.C.) from 2006-08. “A lot of things came to him without a whole lot of effort. Early on, he didn’t see the need for conditioning because the game came so easily for him.”

Still, no coach questioned Joseph’s potential. Not as an inexperienced junior. Not as ESPNU’s No. 50 overall senior recruit in the Class of 2008. Not during a collegiate career that culminated in a Wooden Award finalist bid in his fourth and final season at Syracuse. And not when he fell all the way to the Celtics at No. 52 in the draft.

“When you see him, you know he’s a player,” said Curtis Malone, president of the D.C. Assault AAU program that recruited Joseph in 2006. “And we didn’t have to see him much to say, ‘We’ve gotta get this guy on our team.’ There were so many moments that made you say, ‘Wow, this kid is really, really good.’ He’s a talent.”

Six years later, Joseph joins undrafted rookies Dionte Christmas and Jamar Smith in a three-man battle for the final two spots on the C’s 15-man roster. And he still may not have realized that full potential.

“He hadn’t played lot of high-level ball until his last two years of high school, so once he puts everything together this kid has so much talent that the upside is huge for him,” said Syracuse assistant Adrian Autry, who served as Joseph’s positional coach this past season and faced him as a high school assistant at Paul VI (Fairfax, Va.). “He played basketball, but not at that level and not every day. Hockey is the sport in Canada, so once he got into that type of environment where he was playing at a high level and playing every day, he was very impressive.”

Joseph’s skill set, for the most part, hasn’t changed all that much since he made the 600-mile mission from Montreal to Washington, D.C. How seriously he approaches his craft, however, has evolved dramatically.

“After summer league, I had to take a little time off, just for my body,” said Joseph during an appearance last week at the Boston Celtics Shamrock Foundation’s Summer Soiree. “Two summer leagues was kind of grueling, but it was a great experience overall. I’ve just been working out, trying to maintain my body. I’ve been making sure I’ve been eating the right things and doing things the right way, just so I can work out. This is a job, so you’ve got to make sure you do things the right way, especially with your body.”

In a way, when Celtics training camp commences at September’s end, Joseph’s story is only just beginning.


TEENAGE DREAM
Listen, nobody’s really calling Joseph lazy, including Perrow, who understands no kid uproots his life at age 17 seamlessly, especially one who chose to immerse himself in an American basketball culture that required his full commitment. Joseph’s adjustment took time. That’s all.

“The conditioning — running stairs, footwork, jumping rope — came his senior year when he started realizing that could really help him in the long run,” said Perrow. “When that caught on, he was pretty much a fanatic about it. …

“When he came back for his senior year is when we really noticed his development and his body. We were working with weights, and he really started to fill out. He was doing more what we like to call man-like plays, being a man among some high school kids.”

“He will get in the gym to work,” added Malone. “Of course, he was up at Syracuse for four years. When he came home, he’d get in the gym and work. A few offseasons, he had injuries that didn’t allow him to do much, but he’s a workaholic. He puts in a lot of work. Every time I talk to him, he says, ‘I’ve been in the gym. I’ve been in the gym.’ With us in D.C., he always worked hard. I assume he’s continued to do that.”

“He’s always around,” finished Autry. “He always wants to get better. It may not be him just on the court. He’s very into his body. He’ll be in the weight room. He spends a lot of time in the gym, too. He does a little of both. He’s always doing something toward getting better. He had that balance, and that’s a good thing. He’s mature.”

That maturity also manifests itself outside of the gym, where Joseph is unanimously respected by his former coaches as a “personable, down-to-earth and charismatic” 23-year-old young man, even if he described himself as “silly.” Likewise, each of Joseph’s mentors praised his basketball acumen.

As Autry said, “When we handed out scouting reports, one of the first things he looked at was personnel and who he was playing. Now, being at the pro level, that’s the culture. He’ll be fine.”

KRIS KROSS WILL MAKE YOU JUMP

That’s not to say Joseph is a slouch on the floor. They don’t just hand out Honorable Mention All-American honors.

“You’re talking about a guy at the high school level who played all five positions,” said Perrow. “Our point guard went down with an ankle sprain, and he ran the one. Just to be able to do that was pretty incredible at his size.”

Versatility. Handle. Court vision. These are attributes that surface time and again when discussing Joseph.

“He brought so much to the table,” said Malone. “He was 6-foot-5, 6-6 at the time, but he had guard skills. He could handle the ball, shoot the ball and was a really good passer. He was a more talented player than anybody in the D.C. area at the time. He could do anything. He was like a stat filler. …

“Now, of course, he’s much bigger and stronger, but he’s the same player he was. He’s a big-time talent. Now, getting drafted in the NBA, he’s able to showcase the things he’s capable of doing. He’s so good at a lot of things. Not just one. He’s so versatile. He brought a lot to our team. He’s an all-around player. He played the point, the two — he did everything. He’s a great all-around player. You don’t find too many of those too often.”

Added Autry, “From a skill set standpoint, he can do everything. He can handle, he can shoot, he can slash, he can rebound, he can defend. He can do all those things at a high level. Some people may be able to do one thing better than others, but he’s just a player. He can just play. He does all that stuff at a very, very high level. I’m excited about his future. He’s going to continue to get better each year he has the opportunity to play.”

This is Part One of a two-part series. For Monday’s Part Two, detailing Kris Joseph’s impact on the court, what aspects of his game he needs to improve and whose role he might fill on the 2012-13 Celtics, click here.

PART II

THE CALM BEFORE THE STORM

It’s one thing to have the skill set and a 6-foot-7, 215-pound frame. It’s another to produce on the court.

“Our first game when he was a junior, we were playing DeMatha (Hyattsville, Md.),” said Perrow. “They were ranked top five in the country if not top two or three, and we were unranked. We were decent. DeMatha started out the game with a tremendous flow of points on a combination of dunks and other things. Kris was un-rattled.

“He led us to seven or eight straight points and calmed the team down. We knew then we had something special. That’s the way he’s always been. If you ever see him screaming or yelling, you know something’s good, because he’s never all that emotional. He plays with a poker face. He was the calm on our team.”

Same goes for Syracuse. Joseph averaged a team-high 13.4 points to go along with 4.7 rebounds, 1.5 assists and 1.4 steals for a balanced Orange squad that resided atop the Division I rankings for much of his senior year before, coincidentally, Celtics first-round picks Fab Melo (academic suspension) and Jared Sullinger (19 points, 7 rebounds) effectively ended his season in a 77-70 loss to Ohio State in the NCAA Tournament’s Elite Eight (“We don’t bring it up,” said Joseph of Sullinger. “We did once, but we haven’t brought it up again.”). There’s a reason the Orange were 10.5 points better with Joseph on the floor this past season than with him on the bench.

“He had a stretch toward the middle part of the season, when we needed something big, he got it done,” said Autry. “It was efficient. That’s always the thing that impressed me about him. He never took a lot of shots. He was always efficient. Against West Virginia, there was a stretch we got him in a post-up, and he made a step-through move, then came down and nailed a 3, and then grabbed a tough rebound.

“There’s certain things he does that, in my mind, I’d say, ‘He’s a pro.’” And soon enough, he was.

OH, SHOOT
Joseph isn’t without his flaws. He shot just just 42.1 percent from the field and 34.5 percent from 3-point range in his senior season.

“I think he can be a contributor at the NBA level,” said Perrow. “He needs to work on his jump shot and get it a little bit cleaner. His ball handling has to be an edge better, but it’s not like he’ll be playing the one or anything. He’s a good three.

“He can already pass and dribble enough to get to the hole, which is really all he needs to be able to do, so if he can add a nice jump shot to his game and become more tenacious on boards, I think he can definitely be an asset to somebody’s team.”

“He can handle the ball and get around anybody,” added Malone. “I think once he gets consistency on his jump shot, especially from NBA 3-point range, that can carry him a long way.

“When you’re playing with guys like [Kevin] Garnett and Paul [Pierce], who draw so much attention, you’ve gotta make shots when the ball swings to you,” he continued. “If he gets that consistency with his jump shot, he’ll be a helluva player with the Celtics.

“He can bring a lot to the table. He can rebound and handle the ball. You’re not gonna find a lot of 6-7 guys who can handle the ball like him. When he starts making the jump shot really consistently, he can be a big-time player.”

Joseph understands this criticism, especially after shooting just 36.7 percent from the field and 10.0 percent from long distance during his 10 summer league games for the Celtics in Orlando and Las Vegas.

“I like the fact that I was coming off some pin-downs in Orlando and Vegas and knocking down that mid-range shot,” he said. “I just want to be consistent at that, find a niche and just get great at it. In this league, it’s good to be good at everything, but you want to be great at one thing, so I need to find that and keep working on it.”

And you can’t talk about a Syracuse product without at least mentioning the fact Joseph played almost solely in Syracuse’s patented 2-3 zone defense over the past four years. Although, Autry assures, “He knows how to play man-to-man, because he plays it in practice. Whenever we did it, he’d jump to the ball, locate the ball, deny the ball and know where to help. He knows that, and he knows it better than what people say. He can play man.”

‘HE HAS FIRST-ROUND PICK TALENT’

By now, after hearing Joseph’s former coaches laud his impact at the high school, AAU and collegiate levels, you’re probably wondering how Joseph fell to the No. 52 pick in this June’s draft. You’re not the only one.

“Me, personally, from what I heard and from talking to a lot of people, I didn’t think there were many guys as talented as him after the top 10,” said Malone, whose program also produced Jeff Green and Michael Beasley, among others. “Everybody was kind of the same. What you got at 28 you got at 52. It was one of those drafts. I thought he definitely could’ve been a first-rounder. If he makes the team, he’ll be a good player. They’ll like him.”

“I think he can go as high as he wants to go,” added Autry, who played alongside NBA draftees Billy Owens, Lawrence Moten and John Wallace as a point guard in the early 1990s for the Orange. “I’ll say this: I was reading something — and it might’ve been Doc Rivers — and he said, ‘He has first-round pick talent.’ And I agree. There’s not too many guys in that first round where he goes against them and it’s a huge difference. It’s not. It’s not. For whatever reason, he dropped to wherever he did.

“He has so much potential. He’ll get better. With a lot of guys that stay in college for four years, you see their ceiling, but he hadn’t played a lot of high-level basketball until high school. He’s really only in his sixth year of playing at a high level. He stills has room to grow, and you can see him make that adjustment every year.”

If Joseph had a chip on his shoulder over dropping in the draft, he’s already brushed it off.

“I wouldn’t call it [a chip],” he said. “I’ve heard that before, and deep down I knew I was [a first-round talent], but I couldn’t ask for a better situation. It’s a first-class organization, and I get a chance to learn from some future Hall-of Famers, so there’s definitely no shame in that, and I’m definitely not disappointed, either.”

JOSEPH AND THE AMAZING TECHNICOLOR GREEN JERSEY?

If Joseph’s insistency upon consistency sounds familiar, it’s because his college coaches instilled it in him.

“I don’t care what level you’re coaching, especially when it’s someone trying to make the team and come into the league, you’re looking for consistent effort and production,” said Autry. “That’s something all athletes have to do. If he can do that, he’ll be fine. Learning to play in that system, consistency is key. Whether it’s shooting, energy, getting out on defense, whatever the role is that they need, if he can be consistent, that will help.”

It just so happens the Celtics have a role that seems to suit Joseph to a tee. With the apparent departure of Mickael Pietrus, the C’s need depth at the wing, even with Green in the fold.

How does Joseph envision his role? “Coming off the bench and being some kind of a spark. Rebounding the ball. Just being a high-motor guy for the team off the bench. Whether it be five minutes or whether it be 10, just coming off and doing what I do best: Rebounding the ball, trying to excel in transition and things like that.”

Whatever Joseph lacks entering training camp, it’s not confidence. “If anything, I’m more excited,” he said. “I’m not intimidated at all. I’m just looking forward to going in there and learning from Doc and the coaching staff and the players.” Not that he’s getting ahead of himself. Twice, Joseph reminded himself to “just be like a sponge,” soaking up knowledge from guys like Pierce, whose game he’s admired since before he left Montreal.

“I think he can be a very, very decent guy capable of bringing a lot of versatility to the Boston Celtics organization,” said Malone. “As a rookie, being around older guys like Pierce and other veterans, once he learns the NBA game, he can be a good player, especially as a No. 52 pick. I really believe he has just as much talent as anybody in the first round, and he’s got the veterans there to teach and bring that talent out.”

Now, Joseph has a chance to back up one of his boyhood idols in Pierce. Not bad for the “lazy” kid from Canada.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s in the NBA for a long time,” said Autry, “and I think he’ll be effective.”

“It’s every kid’s dream to hear his name called on draft night,” finished Joseph, “and I was blessed enough to have my name called and even more blessed that it was called by the Boston Celtics. … I’m happy to be here.”

As always in Joseph’s career, how long he stays depends upon his potential. Whether he realizes it or not.

112288

Everybody who saw Joseph in summer league fell in love with him, including me. But summer league is summer league. It's basically a cross between an intramural and pickup games played mostly by undrafted and/or bubble players. In other words, he looked great against iffy and second-rate talent.

We want camp! We want camp! We want camp!

bob

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Bob

He looked (overall) pretty good the last couple years at Syracuse against other BIG EAST schools. And that league is perhaps one of the best conferences in the NCAA. It's a pretty physical league. Yeah SU has had their share of cupcakes too. (who hasn't)

4 years at a very good D-1 program??? Heck he might be better than some of last years rookies even now.

Seems he is a bit of a jack of all trades type. Good at everything but not great.

beat

beat wrote:Bob

He looked (overall) pretty good the last couple years at Syracuse against other BIG EAST schools. And that league is perhaps one of the best conferences in the NCAA. It's a pretty physical league. Yeah SU has had their share of cupcakes too. (who hasn't)

4 years at a very good D-1 program??? Heck he might be better than some of last years rookies even now.

Seems he is a bit of a jack of all trades type. Good at everything but not great.

beat

beat,

I appreciate your insight into his play with Syracuse. Nothing like having eyeballs on the scene, right?

I'm trying not to get too excited about this kid, summer league is summer league after all, but he looked smooth as silk there and I'm liking his comments about working on his pindowns so he can be great at those. I noticed, and I believe I posted on the Game On threads, that he was doing a great job on pindowns.

A 6'7" jack of all trades who becomes a killer at pindowns? From a #51 pick, that sure works for me.

No Marquis Daniels, no Sasha, no Pietrus and only the return of Jeff Green to fill those 3-slot holes gives Joseph his chance.

bob

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Bob,

I something think the nature of the competition is emphasized too much. In the Summer Leagues, he showed me great smoothness, ability to adjust his game instantly to confront barriers, rebounding smarts, excellent ballhandling, and penetrating ability. Not one of those things is a function of the quality of the competition. If you have it, you have it....period!

Moreover, if it can be argued that the quality of the competition helped Joseph in Summer Leagues it can also be argued that the quality of his teammates in the Summer Leagues was much lower than he'll find as a Celtic. His shooting, in particular, might have suffered from not getting the ball in the right spots—a situation that will not be such a factor at the NBA level.

If he winds up in the DL (which could be very likely), I don't believe he'll grow nearly as fast as if he's with the Celtics—even if he's seldom activated. I believe practicing with the big boys will be much better suited to honing his skills than game minutes in the DL would be.

Sam

sam wrote:Bob,

I something think the nature of the competition is emphasized too much. In the Summer Leagues, he showed me great smoothness, ability to adjust his game instantly to confront barriers, rebounding smarts, excellent ballhandling, and penetrating ability. Not one of those things is a function of the quality of the competition. If you have it, you have it....period!

Moreover, if it can be argued that the quality of the competition helped Joseph in Summer Leagues it can also be argued that the quality of his teammates in the Summer Leagues was much lower than he'll find as a Celtic. His shooting, in particular, might have suffered from not getting the ball in the right spots—a situation that will not be such a factor at the NBA level.

If he winds up in the DL (which could be very likely), I don't believe he'll grow nearly as fast as if he's with the Celtics—even if he's seldom activated. I believe practicing with the big boys will be much better suited to honing his skills than game minutes in the DL would be.

Sam

sam,

I believe the quality, experience and chemistry of your opponents are always relevant. If the quality of his teammates in summer league was inferior than the quality of his Celtic teammates so too was the quality of the competition he showcased against. If the chemistry of the summer league team was inferior to that of the chemistry of the KG/Pierce/Rondo team, so too was the chemistry of the summer league teams he played against vs the teams he'll play against during the season. If playing with the big boys will be good for him to hone his skills doesn't that naturally infer that's because we don't know how he'll do against those big boys?

Practicing with the big boys is good. Dionte Christmas said that he learned tons in just a few minutes talking with Rondo, just imagine what he'll learn being with him day in and day out! On the other hand, there is no teacher like experience and if you never get off the bench you're not getting that experience. In Maine he'll get a lot of floor time and, since the Celtics own the Red Claws lock-stock-and-barrel, he'll be playing in Doc's system. Inferior teammates, once again, but he'd be getting a significant amount of exercise on that 4" muscle between the ears and for a player with the physical game but doesn't know the playbook that's what he needs for Doc to have the confidence to put him in and give him that invaluable, career-changing game time experience.

IMO, however, the more likely candidate for an early winter in Bangor is Melo. He is far more raw, has a far bigger learning curve. To use a cross-sport metaphor if you're a 2.0 level tennis player would you be better off playing with, and struggling but learning from, 2.5 or even 3.0 players since they're only a little better than you, or are you better off getting your brains beaten in with ease by 3.5 and 4.0s?

Pierce is a 4.0. Green is a 3.0-3.5. Perhaps Joseph is a 2.5 who might not be far off from being a 3.0. Playing with and against Green might be all Joseph needs to make that jump. Melo is a 2.0 (maybe) and he'd be playing with a 4.0 KG and a 3.0 Wilcox. Undersized, Wilcox still has a better low post game than Melo. Melo has only been playing basketball for a handful of years. Talk about needing to exercise that 4" muscle! He doesn't need to grow into his NBA body, he needs to learn the game. 30mpg in Maine will do that for him. Being the 3rd string center in practice won't because I don't see Doc playing a two-headed monster with KG and Melo during the season (nor Melo and Wilcox), so why put Melo on the practice court and consume valuable practice time for an unlikely lineup? Joseph could get some court time in practice if Doc wants to pair Green and Joseph on the B-team.

bob

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bobh,

Winter does come early in Bangor, but the Red Claws play in Portland.

gyso

Sam,
I tend to agree with you about Joseph for the very reasons you mentioned. I think he has a chance to be a above average player. I don't usually get excited about summer league but he show me a lot of things I didn't see from others. I hope he is on the team, otherwise I think we will regret if he leaves.

Melo i would like to see get short minutes in the first half of games and see if he can learn to play. Rondo will help him with lots of dunks. That gives him confidence in his game. He does need to concentrate on the things that can help us more than his offense though. I have high hopes for him as well.

One other guy I have good feelings about is Christmas. IMO this guy is hungry. He wants it and knows he has to put the effort out. I could see him being a player as well. His biggest problem is the guys ahead of him.

With all this said I think we are going to have to pieces at the trade deadline that might get us a impact player. Doc will have to get them some minutes for this to happen and the will have to show some real potentiial though.

gyso wrote:bobh,

Winter does come early in Bangor, but the Red Claws play in Portland.

gyso

gyso,

I live in sunny CA, it's all cold to me. :-)

Portland it is, then. Have a nice trip, Fabricio Paulino de Melo! (if I have my way).

bob

.

I'll be going to Portland August 26th to see my grandson, the one pictured in my avatar... I want to see if he can dunk over me yet.

Tardust,

I'm enthusiastic about Christmas too. There's just something about him that suggest to me he could rise to the occasion against major league competition. It wouldn't shock me if he wound up being an effective sixth man swing player. It seems to me that, barring a trade, they have to keep Melo if only because of his height. In my opinion, if they go to camp with just 16 players (I think there will be more than that), Smith would seem to be the odd man out.

Sam

In this slow mid-summer stall, I thought I'd ressurect the draft express profile on Kris Joseph.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kris-Joseph-5837/

They claim he is inconsistent with his mid-range jumper, but I saw him hit them consistently in summer league (he has also said he's focusing on his mid-range consistency this summer). They say he is finishing better, by adding bulk which helps him absorb contact, but I saw him finish well in summer league (hmm, maybe that's what they're talking about). They say he has advanced ballhandling abilities but can get into trouble in traffic. I thought he looked smooth and didn't get himself into trouble (that might have been the loosy-goosy nature of summer league defense though).

I really like that they say he could work his way up into the first round (the profile was written pre-draft) and what might hold him back is his age (he's 23) and that the draft is deep. I have never understood this obsession with 19 and 20 year old underclassmen and the discounting of 22 and 23 year old seniors. Physically, the 22 and 23 year olds might be more grown into their bodies, their minds stronger and their games more polished and NBA-ready. The idea that getting them younger means more bang for your draft buck assumes they're going to be with you for a long, long time. Suppose they sign a 3 year rookie contract and then re-up for a 4-5 year contract (the maximum length) next. Ok, so that's the difference between them being an UFA at 26-28 vs at 29-30. How many players spend their entire careers with one team? What are the realistic odds of them being with you after that 2nd contract? Do you really want to position yourself where you might lose them when they're 27 and are in their prime and almost dead-middle of their career? I don't get it, quite frankly.

Physically, he's listed as 6'6" w/o shoes. That'll mean he's 6'8" by today's NBA standards, where they measure them in thick-soled sneakers with air cushions that add at least 1 1/2", and then round up to the nearest inch. Nice size for a SF. He has a 6'11" wingspan. For a 6'6" man, that's an outstanding wingspan. I've noticed, between Bradley (6'2" w/o shoes, 6'7 1/4" wingspan. Wow!) and Joseph (6'6" w/o shoes, 6'9" wingspan)and Xmas (6'4 1/4" w/o shoes, 6'9" wingspan. Even more impressive than Joseph) Danny looks for that. Yeah, they all do (GMs) but some look at shooting or bulk as more important. Being able to disrupt using long arms appears to be Danny's "thing".

These are my thoughts. Re-read Joseph's draftexpress profile. What do you come away from it with?

bob


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Bob,
Thx for the info.
The only question I have is can KJ sub for PP and JG?
But, I guess, we'll find the answer in the next 7 months.
I hope it will be "yes". If so, Celtics bench will look like Mariana (as in Marianas Trench).

I liked him in those couple games of Summer League that I managed to watched.

AK

bob,

I'm the soprano soloist in the choir you're preaching to.

Sam

I only saw a few summer league games but I liked what I saw of Joseph and Xmas, Smith, not so much. Just like Doc not playing rookies, DA doesn't send many people to Maine. Fab seems like an excellent candidate but don't be surprised if the last two stay around Boston. They may not play much but they will in practice and there is only one AI. lol Re summer league. They play vs equal talent for the most part. When someone looks really good, like Sully did, then you can expect better play than those "others". They may even be better than some lower tier talent. But like with Rondo in SL, some of us where amazed, others made these same comments, "what will he do vs NBA caliber talent" Well we found that one out, now not much longer till we find out what these kids will do on what will become the best team in the NBA this season. You heard it hear first! ( I mean in this venue, not necessarily from me lol)

A clarification on my post. I noticed I contradicted myself on Joseph's wingspan by first saying it is 6'11" and then saying it was 6'9". I re-checked the draftexpress page and his wingspan is listed as 6'11". 6'9" would have been good too, but 6'11" is truly outstanding. I didn't contradict myself on that.

bob


,

bob

I think Joseph can play at the next level, he'll be better than Marvin Williams and Tyrus Thomas, better ball handler than both and much better shooter than TT, though thats not saying much cause TT can't shoot for beans. He will really fit well running the floor with Rondo, I think he has attributes to defend at the 3 at the next level too, hell he could even be better than Danny Granger, whenever I see Granger I'm amazed at all he can't do, can't drive a lick, lives and dies by his outside shot.

He will get open looks playing with us, I think he can hit them, he has alot of fluidity that you never see in those established players I mentioned, Marvin Williams always looks stiff to me....and he might rebound better than them too.

cow

sinus007 wrote:Bob,
Thx for the info.
The only question I have is can KJ sub for PP and JG?
But, I guess, we'll find the answer in the next 7 months.
I hope it will be "yes". If so, Celtics bench will look like Mariana (as in Marianas Trench).

I liked him in those couple games of Summer League that I managed to watched.

AK

sinus,

I have to keep reminding myself that all my impressions of Xmas and Joseph are from summer league and that is not a representative sample to judge what they may/could/would do at the NBA regular season level against players who not only made the summer league cut but the pre-season camp cut too.

If there is a potential weakness I could foresee for Joseph it's that, at only 215#, he might not be strong enough to defend SFs in the low post and also perhaps off the drive if they can get their shoulder into him.

I have more confidence in Xmas than in Joseph. By that I mean to say I don't see an obvious weakness, like the one I noted above for Joseph. At 6'5+" he has the requisite size for his position. At 211# he's slightly heavier than Ray Allen (6'5", 205#) and Kobe Bryant (6'6" 205#). I'm not saying he is or will be as good as those guys, merely that he's not physically overmatched, and they're some of the best in the game at that position (DWade is 220#, but is only 6'3" so Xmas would have a 2+" height advantage). He has pro experience from playing in Europe. While he played a lot of point in the summer, he won't be expected to do a lot of ballhandling and floor generaling during the season. He came out of Temple with a rep as a shooter, and he showed NBA shooting range in the summer, but not much more. He has obviously improved his defense and ballhandling while still retaining his shooter's touch. One of the nice things about basketball vs baseball is that no matter where you are playing the rim is still 10' high and 21' out is still 21' out. If you can hit that shot from that spot in Israel and Greece then you can hit that shot from that spot in Boston.

bob

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sam wrote:bob,

I'm the soprano soloist in the choir you're preaching to.

Sam

Sam,

Less starch in the shorts will fix that. A quick wardrobe change and you're a swing playing alto and tenor as well. A coach's dream.

bob


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Bob,

My hope/expectation is that Joseph will bulk up while retaining his fluidity. Other than the possible bulk issue, my enthusiasm about him has virtually nothing to do with the competition he faced in the summer league. For me, it's primarily about his style, his tendencies, and his smarts. Like any young guy, he will require developing; but what I've seen represent excellent potential building blocks.

I fully expect him to be the second coming of John Havlicek—and probably better than John. (This is a sanity test to see how many people take me seriously.)

Sam

sam wrote:Bob,

I fully expect him to be the second coming of John Havlicek—and probably better than John. (This is a sanity test to see how many people take me seriously.)

Sam

Sam,
Everything's possible. Stranger things have happened. But I hope you are right.

AK

sinus007 wrote:

sam wrote:Bob,

I fully expect him to be the second coming of John Havlicek—and probably better than John. (This is a sanity test to see how many people take me seriously.)

Sam

Sam,
Everything's possible. Stranger things have happened. But I hope you are right.

AK

Gotta be cut by the Browns ( or ravens ) first!

beat

An article about Joseph in Rantsports.

http://www.rantsports.com/boston-celtics/2012/08/14/boston-celtics-player-outlook-2012-2013-kris-joseph/


Today I begin our series on the outlook for each player who appears to be guaranteed a spot on the Boston Celtics roster entering training camp. We start with Kris Joseph, who was recently picked by the Celtics in last June’s NBA Draft. Joseph is a small forward from Montreal who attended Syracuse University for four seasons under head coach Jim Boeheim.

Joseph got better every year in college and is one of the rare four year players who decided to stay in school. Syracuse has always been an extremely efficient offense program and they play strictly a zone defense. Joseph was part of a very deep team last year where he was truly part of a team system and did not have to be the primary scoring option. That is not the type of player Joseph is. He is great at slashing to the rim and using his 6’7 frame to create contact and get to the free throw line. He is also a solid perimeter shooter who has improved greatly since his freshman season. He is a weak and streaky three point shooter, something he certainly has to improve on to carve out a comfortable niche in the NBA. It is hard to judge his defense and how it translates to the league because of the zone he played in college. He is going to have to prove to the Celtics coaching staff that he can play their style of defense because if he can’t, you can guarantee he will rarely see the floor. The Celtics value defense first and this is something that Joseph will have to make improvements in.

For this season, expect Joseph’s role to be rather limited. The green have a deep roster this year and minutes will be hard to come by. Paul Pierce is not going anywhere and the team has great depth in the backcourt. This can almost be viewed as a red shirt year for Joseph. He needs to get into better shape and learn from Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and of course head coach Doc Rivers. I think Joseph has the potential to have a long career in this league, similar to a Rasual Butler. He just needs to continue to develop and to make sure he takes in as much good coaching as possible.


bob


.

Hi,
"....For this season, expect Joseph’s role to be rather limited. The green have a deep roster this year and minutes will be hard to come by. ...."
I hope so. Because if either PP or JG goes down with injury I don't see anyone else covering this position. KJ is it.

AK