Post-Game Thread vs Turkey Team

[bobheckler]

I can't remember their real name.

This was the Turkish team's 2nd game in 2 days. They should have been tired, but weren't. They also were in game shape and we aren't.

We started out great. Nice ball movement, we ran. All good in the first 4 minutes or so. Then we forgot how to play defense and went down by 10. Then we pulled it together again and led by one after 1. Fell apart in the 2nd and went into halftime down by 10. The 2nd unit was MUCH sloppier than the 1st. 28 turnovers this game. 28! This shouldn't have been close.

1. Sully led all Celtics with 16 points. Couple of offensive putbacks. Solid play by the rook. Got stuffed underneath once, needs to work on those inside moves against height, but otherwise very nice play overall. Unless this game was a fluke, and I don't think it is, he will be a solid rotation player this year, I think. 8 rebounds too, 5 of them offensive. I think I'm in love.

2. I don't think KG or Pierce played in the 2nd half, so this game was winnable, if winning was important. It's the first game of camp, so it isn't.

3. The Turkish point guard, a University of New Orleans alum named Bo McCallebb, had a very nice game. VERY quick. He didn't shoot from outside much, but that's because we didn't make him because our pick-and-roll defense was so pathetically bad. He penetrated at will. To his credit, he broke everybody's ankles out there today. Rondo, Terry, Lee and Smith all had a shot at him and nobody could stay between him and the rim. He didn't even need picks. He was breaking ankles on cross overs. They ran a kind of fake pick-and-roll, where a big would come over as if he was going to set a pick but then roll down the lane without so much as a brush pick and McCallebb is so quick our big froze on him (our point guard was always trailing him OVER the pick. NOT good) and he'd just cut down the lane through that semi-trailer sized hole created between his big and our big. The kid has a killer crossover. He was recruited by the Celtics and the Spurs this summer but he signed a 3 year contract with this Turkish team for more money than we could offer him. So, in the bigger picture, it's probably just as well. I wouldn't want to see him coming off the bench to spell Tony Parker. That'd be scary.

4. High scorer for the game was an Xavier alum named Sato with 24 points. Kid can shoot. If nothing else this game was valuable as a scouting tool.

5. Bass played a solid game too. His usual, non-flashy game, although he did throw one in from 17' out on the wing with two guys draped on him. For someone who is supposed to be undersized he does just fine. We got a couple of blue collar lunchpail guys in Bass and Sully.

6. I thought Darko had a good game. Yes, it stuns me to see me writing this too, but he did. Sure, he made a few mistakes on switches and one time he just was waaaay too far out and got taken to the hole by his man from on top, but for the most part he did well. Some rebounds, a couple of blocks (including one where he and Pierce teamed up to swallow a penetrator right up) and a really picture-perfect pick-and-roll from Pierce (he didn't finish, blew the bunny, but Sully was there to clean it up with a putback). 6 rebounds (2 offensive!), 2 blocks in 16 minutes. He had 3 TOs, true, but that might be fixed with chemistry and time with the team. Nobody on this board has been more down on Darko than me, but I gotta give him this game. Considering he didn't work out with the team over the past month like everybody else and didn't go to that mini-camp Rondo organized in LA either, he's looking much better than I thought he would. Admittedly, that's not setting the bar very high. Let me see more of this and I'll feel mo betta.

7. Melo should talk to Avery Bradley about the best places to get lobster in Portland. He goes for EVERY block. In doing so, he falls for EVERY fake and gives up position EVERY time. For him to develop to the point where he's an asset he needs to play 30+ mpg and the only place he's going to do that is in Maine. Yeah, I know I'm making a judgment after just one game, but he's sooooo raw I can't see how he could go from where he was today to where he needs to be by the end of this month. In one sequence he joined the paratrooper corp on, what was, a most basic head fake underneath and on another got the ball stolen by McCallebb, the smallest guy on the floor. Considering how few years he has played the game he's quite impressive, but the NBA doesn't grade on a curve.

8. Green started out very aggressive and looked very good. Then he went passive, passing up on open shots, trying to be a play maker instead of taking it to his man and largely disappeared or created turnovers. In the 2nd half of the 4th quarter, though, he was involved in almost every major sequence. He said, coming back from surgery, that he needs to be more selfish. Well, you were today, Jeff, but you need to be even more so. You are tough to stop when you are aggressive. You overpower 3s and you outrun 4s. Nice start for a player who hasn't played in a year. Tied Sully for high Celtic scorer with 16 points on 7-10 in 27 minutes. Nice.

9. Smith hit a 3, got his ankles broken at least once by McCallebb (or as Sam called him, McWhatever) and didn't even really try to play point. In other words, same as summer league. Xmas and Joseph only played a few minutes at the end and really didn't do much to distinguish themselves. Xmas screwed me up by changing his number to #12 from the #50 he was in summer league.

10. Jason Terry is one smooth shooter. The bench needed a leader and a scorer last year. We sure as hell got one now. 3-3 from 3.

11. Not a good game by Lee. Repeatedly beaten on defense (supposedly his specialty) all game including one backdoor layup like the kind that was Bradley's bread-and-butter last year, couldn't shoot (missed a corner 3, which is supposedly his specialty). They need to Hoover this game out of his head tonight at the hotel. Am I wrong, but doesn't he bear some resemblance to Sean "P Diddy" Coombs? Maybe that's why he sucked today, wrong guy got on the plane in Boston. 5 fouls in the 1st half, fouled out of the game. A forgettable 27 minutes.

12. Rondo took, and hit, two outside jumpers and looked smooth doing it. More importantly, and most exultingly, he was 6-6 from the line and looked smooth hitting them too. I said in the Game On thread that if he ever gives up basketball he should become a cop since he's already following people around. I don't think he stayed between McCallebb and the rim once. He followed McCallebb over the top of picks (including those fake picks) and was unable to stop the penetration every time. Nobody made McCallebb prove he could shoot. Rondo's defense has become total gamble defense, trying to steal from the backside, reach around swipes at the ball and playing the passing lanes. He has forgotten about moving the muffins and playing position defense. Doc needs to remind him in the way only Doc can.

Win, lose it doesn't matter in pre-season. I'm just glad we got Celtics hoop again.

Here's the boxscore. http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400400461



bob



.

[worcester]

Bob, most important point you raised: Darko can set a pick!

Could be a big player for us if he can do that consistently.

[Sam]

Regardless of how and when the NBA may expand to other continents, I bet these Celtics players will never again play a game in such exotic surroundings. The only things more foreign to the team than the setting were the concepts of playing defense and protecting the ball.

Scal said, on Comcast (where he had some pretty good insights) that, in training camp, the offense usually gets installed first and the defense follows. One of the first lessons the new guys will have to learn is (1) to expect a Rondo pass at even the most improbably moments and (2) to expect it to be a bullet. Perhaps the following Celtics stat will help make my point: 25 turnovers, 17 assists. And it wasn't just Fab Melo watching the bullets go by. Nor were the turnovers exclusively the domain of younger guys. Paul Pierce got blindsided at least as Turks just took the ball out of his hands. And the miscues weren't always the responsibility of recipients of passes. From just beyond the top of the key, Rondo fired one totally unnecessary bullet pass that bounced just high enough to reach Pierce's knee an careen out of bounds.

Rondo, we get it. The team is yours. You've elevated your offensive play to another level. But you don't have to keep proving it. Remember that one tenet of good basketball, especially in the fall on a team that's just getting used to one another, is to put your teammates in a position to succeed. In this game, I saw far too much of you repeating last year's act of standing at the perimeter as you waited for teammates to get free (while defenders were also getting set) and throwing missiles that too often represented a misplaced prayer. I guess your modus operandi is to subject your teammates to a baptism of fire to get them ready for the keen competition of the regular season. Excuse me if I disagree. I believe that these guys will "get it" far better if they're permitted to gain some confidence as they get their feet wet. Then you can ramp up the pace to leverage that confidence.

Oh, and while I have your ear, Rajon, weren't you voted to a all-NBA defensive team? Is there some reason you hate that award and prefer to bask in the idolatry expended on you by people like Scal? Have you ever thought of going under a pick when the opposing PG is repeatedly burning you with his penetration and hasn't proven he can beat you from outside?

On the positive side of the ledger, excellent shooting game, including a perfect record at the free throw line, a couple of nice mid-range jumpers, and a nifty three. On those latter shots, you went straight up with lots of confidence and absolutely no hesitation. So I'm still a Rondo-liker, and I assume you'll work out the other stuff, maybe with a nudge from Doc.

I personally couldn't care less if Sullinger gets blocked a couple of times a game if he can continue (and expand on) the good things he did in this game. He was one of the main reasons why the Celtics tied the Turks for points in the paint (40 apiece) despite McRunt's constant driving and shooting or dishing. He puts me at ease by being so crafty in his rebounding positioning. And he's very polished around the basket. His greatest value may be from stuff that never draw raves from dunk-crazed fans, but he's the real goods in the lane. His defense improved as the game progressed too.

Then there's Jeff Green. Doc thinks Terry can create his own shot? Well, Doc, I think you've got another one in Green. He was another one who scored many points—almost at will in the fourth quarter—in the paint because of his height, strength, speed, guile, and just plain talent.

The single thing I like best about Darko is that he seems obsessed with setting picks. On several occasions, he'd set a pick that wouldn't get used, so he'd immediately set another one. I think he has a pretty good feel for the game, and he's obviously focused on defense and protecting the rim. Music to my ears. The long lead pass he threw to someone (Lee?) for an easy bucket was very, very nice.

Paul and KG contributed as though they were in mid-season form in the limited minutes they got. It seems with Bass that you wind him up and he always goes out and scores in double digits and grabs a handful of boards. This time, he hit some jumpers with one or even two guys hanging over him.

Otherwise, Mrs. Lincoln, I hear you're now unattached, so would you like to fool around a little?

I was disappointed in Doc's use of Christmas and Joseph for cameos at the end. I understand that he wanted to give them a taste of crunch time. But, just as I wish Rondo would have eased off in some of his passes to the uninitiated, I don't subscribe to the theory that coming in stone cold to be immersed in crunch time is a healthy introduction to the big leagues. I would rather he had held them out completely and maybe even started them in a game so they could play within what I call the "womb" of three starters. If the three starters do their jobs, they could ease the kids into the action and help them feel the flow and rhythms rather than to be confronted with the pressure of crunch time. Maybe I'm biased by my hope that both Christmas and Joseph will make the team, but I thought they were not placed in a position to succeed in this game.

Sam

[dboss]

It is just preseason so I watched with great interest to see how the rooks performed, how Jeff played and Terry and Lee would fit in as well as Darko.

Overall, I was very encouraged by what we saw. Ok the pick and role defense sucked but give some credit to Mcwhatever.. That kid has game. Besides, the problem with the Celtics last year was not poor defense.

I was more enthralled by seeing new players in the system. There were a few fast breaks but mostly because rr outran the coverage. Saw Green get a layup off of a Rondo dish and the nice outlet from a streaking Lee for a layup. I was thinking that Ray would have had that layup blocked.

Sully was a beast on the glass and really has great positioning techniques around the basket.
Melo is all raw talent and depending on his learning curve is a developmental type player.


Bob did a fantastic job summarizing the game and Sam filled in all the nuances.

From what I can see we are looking at a solid 8-9 players who could score in double figures once AB is back.


Dboss

[NYCelt]

From what I can see we are looking at a solid 8-9 players who could score in double figures once AB is back.


Dboss

That would be very encouraging since we didn't have those #'s last year.

That, players who can run sometimes and rebounding would make us a much improved team.

Good signs.

[tardust]

Some encouraging things I saw yesterday is how much quicker and faster we were. Lee on a couple of occasions raced down the floor to cover a wide open shooter. I promise you Ray Allen would never have even been in that picture. The quickness of Terry, Lee, and Green was apparent. Our lockdown defense wasn't there but with the added quickness and speed it will show up. How many times last year did we see 3 guys on a fast break? I saw that a few times as well.

I also believe our rebounding will be better if Sully get minutes. Darko stayed within himself and got a passing grade. A couple of blocks.

Our complete second team was new players to the system so it doesn't suprise me that they struggled with the offense and defensive schemes. We had 4 starters from last year and thats it as far as being use to playing with each other.

I think we can take a lot of positives out of this game as well as a lot of things to work on. Playing together and getting use to each other will help as much as anything.

Can't wait for the next game.

[bobheckler]

Yeah, I'm more of the play-by-play man and Sam's the color guy. I'll be Gorman and Sam can give out the Sammy Points.

I probably could have been more effusive in my praise of Jeff Green. When I said he "disappeared", what I meant was that I saw him pass on taking open shots, I saw him driving to the basket but not at full speed as if he was trying to take his man but at half speed as if he was just doing it to draw a double team and pass out. When he played like that he created turnovers, made bad passes and stalled the offense. When he was selfish, when he looked for his shot, when he put the ball on the floor and took his man into the paint, he was almost unstoppable. When Jeff Green was aggressively looking for himself he was the best player on the floor for the Celtics. Not Rondo, not Pierce, not Terry. Jeff Green. Normally I'd glow in the thought of yet one more unselfish Celtic player but as I see the way Doc wants to use him (power 3, stretch/running 4) he has to be selfish. For that approach to work Jeff Green has to be the finisher. He has to outrun his man downcourt on the break and finish. He has to drive to the basket and draw the contact at the rim and not drive to the basket and look to pass. He has to come off a screen or wait in the corner and get the ball and take the shot. This is almost the opposite of what he was expected to be in OKC, where he was probably the 4th option behind Durantula, Westbrook and Harden. When Green is on the floor with the 2nd unit (Terry, Sully, Darko and either Lee or Bradley) he has to turn into Paul Pierce.

As far Xmas and Joseph go, I'm a fan of them like Sam. I'm trying to keep in perspective, though, that deciding who the 14th and 15th players are is probably not of as much interest to Doc as it is to me. Doc's focus is to see that his first 10 players are syncing and, at numerous spots yesterday, they weren't. He's probably more focused on seeing what combinations might work and that he is likely to use in a regular season game. I'm rooting for the underdogs, Doc has the underdog's rightful place on the team in perspective. They don't need to be ready by the beginning of the season since they might not even get off the bench until the first blow out. Besides, he's been seeing them now for a week, he might already know who is going to stick and who is gone. Let's see how many minutes they get in upcoming games.

Yes, Darko set picks. Maybe he will be our next enforcer. The guy that makes the other team run around with one eye always looking for him. If he does that, I'd be ok. He looked to make outlet passes. On an uptempo team, that's a good (and important) role. A lot of our turnovers were on overly aggressive outlet passes, trying to start a fast break, while the Turks played the passing lanes effectively. That's ok with me, I like that we're looking to run all the time. We shorten up those passes, don't outrun the ball and the ballhandler's ability to deliver it and we'll be fine. That's chemistry and, with this team and how they've come together, chemistry just means time playing together and not establishment of the pecking order.


bob


.

[bobheckler]

Here's Chris Forsberg's Rapid Reaction to this game, delivered in less-than-rapid time.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4697697/rapid-reaction-fenerbahce-ulker-97-celtics-91


bob


.

[Sam]

Bob,

It seemed to me that Doc deliberately put Jeff Green on the floor with four guys who were bound to be deferential, forcing Jeff to become the go-to guy. I thought this was a master stroke by Doc, although I wish he had also inserted Lee so the two teammates could share go-to status. And I still dislike putting Christmas and Joseph in for such short periods. I'd rather than had not played at all than to be fed to the wolves that way.

If this had been a real game, you can bet that Doc would have dictated some plays designed to get Lee more involved in the game. It seemed that Doc called a lot of the plays yesterday, as I noticed Rondo looking over at the bench when the other team was shooting foul shots.

Sam

[sinus007]

Hi,
Thanks all for the comments.
I don't have much to add.
If I were a religious man I'd pray 3 times a day that Sally's back holds. IMHO, he's going to be a force to reckon with pretty soon. Funny thing: when Mike or Scal mentioned that he's leading Celtics scorer with 16 pt, I said "Wow. How did I miss it watching every second of the game?"
As for Christmas and Joseph, I think Doc will use them much more when Celtics are back playing Nets and Knicks.
Also, I've got an impression that RR et al took it easy fighting through the picks.
Also, I liked Scal as a color-man. He needs a lot of practice. But for the rook he's really good.

AK

[cowens/oldschool]

Was very entertaining game, Darko shocked me how big and bulky he is, he already looks like an obvious better option to back up KG than Melo or Collins. Jeff Green played great in 4th with the rooks, hes got to go hard and as Bob the pitbull pointed out, be as agressive with the starters. Sully is going to help us, was enjoying seeing Sully and Bass together, not exactly Unseld and Silas, but shows potential. Sully aleady has nuances of a vet, his rebounding is gonna help us so much this year. JT showed his stroke, what a bench!!!! JT, Sully, Darko and J Green, those 4 can play vs most starters, imagine if we had that bench last year? Not worried about the defense, team will be much stronger in a few weeks.

[cowens/oldschool]

Hi,
Thanks all for the comments.
I don't have much to add.
If I were a religious man I'd pray 3 times a day that Sally's back holds. IMHO, he's going to be a force to reckon with pretty soon. Funny thing: when Mike or Scal mentioned that he's leading Celtics scorer with 16 pt, I said "Wow. How did I miss it watching every second of the game?"
As for Christmas and Joseph, I think Doc will use them much more when Celtics are back playing Nets and Knicks.
Also, I've got an impression that RR et al took it easy fighting through the picks.
Also, I liked Scal as a color-man. He needs a lot of practice. But for the rook he's really good.

AK

unfortunately I had to watch on NBA TV and listen to Donnie Marshall, that guy makes me want to puke.

[sinus007]

Cow,
??? I recorded the game from NBA-TV. The announcers were MG and Scal. Half-time - I skipped except when Tommy gave his opinion about the first half.

AK

[bobheckler]

Here's Greg Payne, of ESPN-Boston, take on the game. Interesting. It appears that ESPN has sent two reporters, Payne and Forsberg, to cover the Celtics' European camp. That's pretty heavy coverage for pre-season.

I like Doc's comment, about what he said to the team at halftime, about how the goal was 14 TOs and that's what they had at the half "Our goal was 14. We had that at halftime, so I had to explain to the guys I didn't mean 14 a half, I meant 14 for the game". Doc has a way, doesn't he? He has such a good sense of humor he can zing you, and make his point crystal clear, without making you want to curl up into fetal position.


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4697715/in-focus-struggles-in-opener


bob


.

[Berlin-T]

Two things annoyed me.
1. As Sam already pointed out Rondo was always chasing behind his man on defense.
2. He also, as he did last year, often walked the ball up the court, pounding it at the top of the key forever and thereby stagnating the offense.

In his defense, his foul and floor shooting looked much improved. I hope the negatives will not continue and that the positives will. Then with the other pieces Danny has impressively assembled we have an excellent chance for another banner for the "Gahden"

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