Post-game Thread: Celtics @ Heat 10/30/12

[Sam]

I have a feeling 112288 is without electricity, so I'm starting this post-game thread for everyone's convenience. I have just a couple of observations because this game was all about the Heat having better chemistry and being more aggressive, while the Celtics (not surprisingly) had 27 fast break points but really putrid half-court offense and lousy defense.

In the first quarter, 75% of the Celtics made field goals were assisted. For the rest of the game, only 52% were assisted. What that means to me is that the offensive chemistry got worse as the game progressed. I thought the movement without the ball was pretty decent, especially that of Lee. But the floor spacing absolutely sucked, enabling the Heat to get away with triple-teaming KG and generally clogging the middle to guard against penetration. The Heat also did a lot of trapping, forcing a number of turnovers.

For the moment, at least, there's no question about who should be starting at PF. Bass had six (6) OFFENSIVE rebounds and 11 in total as well as scoring in double figures and doing it aggressively. Sully had one great play in which he was a trailer on the fast break and wound up cruising down the lane and grabblng a pass for the jam. But, in general, he looked overmatched. I think he's definitely got the ability to be a very good PF in the league; but it seems best that he play mainly against second-tier players while he gains timing, some fakes and elusive moves, and a feel for the Celtics' defensive system.

The vaunted bench of the Celtics scored 29 points, but so did the bench of the Heat. Without Barbosa's very impressive 14 points toward the end, the bench would have had only 15 points. Jeff Green missed a couple of shots and stopped any vestige of aggressiveness thereafter. I know people feel Jason Terry can play adequate PG as relief for Rondo, but I would contest that opinion—at least against a scrambling, aggressive defense like the Heat's.

All preseason and in this game, I never saw signs that the Celtics are going to continue using what I call the "feint and recover" form of defense that has been their trademark in recent years. That defense also lends itself to a lot of switching. It's the best possible way to defend a team like the Heat. I hope Doc hasn't abandoned it because straight man-to-man defense ain't going to cut it with this team.

I agree with Doc's comment that, when the Celtics made their runs, the Heat showed greater composure than the Celtics showed when the Heat made their runs. The Celtics were just good enough to make it close near the end—but nowhere near good enough to close out a victory.

I'm not at all discouraged because there were some glimmers, and I expected the chemistry would not be established overnight. This was probably the worst possible team for an newly evolving team to face in the first game of the season. A more revealing barometer of the Celtics' situation will be against Milwaukee because it's a matchup that should allow the Celts to work on improving their offensive and defensive chemistry and still come out winners.

Sam

[tardust]

Hi Sam,

Kind of what I expected, win loss wise. I didn't expect our defense to be so bad but when you think about it I guess you can understand.

Some positives from last nite, when was the last time we had a bench player go off like Barbosa? I got the feeling we are going to see stuff like that this year with Terry and others. Maybe not so many pts in the 4th quarter but a lot of points. Rondo and Pierce both looked good, as well as Bass. Of course the only thing I am referring to is offense.

I had concerns the first two preseason games about our defense. We have talked the talk about defense by all the players but I haven't seen it in action but for a few minutes at a time in a couple games. Doc better get this righted pretty quick.

[Sam]

Tardust,

I apologize if I'm over-emphasizing the fact that the present defense bears very little resemblance to the defense used since the championship season. That defense (which I call a scrambling defense) a defensive player quickly leaving his man to lunge at another opponent and then either (1) staying with the new opponent (to double him or in case that opponent's defender is picked off) or (2) rapidly recovering to return to his original assignment.

Sometimes it causes a chain reaction in which several defenders quickly have to rotate from their original assignments to cover new opponents. It's a very complex defense requiring split-second decision-making and action. It can be extremely effective because it can have the effect of having more than five defenders on the floor...but it can also burn the defending team if an offensive guy is left open long enough to receive a pass for an open shot.

I don't know whether Doc has abandoned that defense, which I believe was instituted by Thibault. But I won't be surprised if we start seeing more of it very soon. And, if and when that happens, it will probably still take months for guys to get comfortable with it.

There are similar problems with the offense. Guys aren't getting in the right spots, which is confusing (and irritating) Rondo. It takes time for players who are used to a certain amount of free lance play to learn that, in Boston, free lance is the exception and assists are the rule.

The downside of re-tooling so thoroughly for the long run and short-term championship contention is that there are so many new Celtics in the rotation. Of those who played last night, six of the nine were basically new to the Celtics. (I count Green as being new because he never really had much of a chance to gel with the team two seasons ago.)

As Doc says, the trick is to learn together while still getting wins. I think there's enough talent on the team to beat .500 teams pretty regularly. But the real yardstick of the Celtics' progress will come against the better opponents. And part of that yardstick (at least from my point of view) will be whether they can improve while lowering Paul Pierce's minutes well below the 41 he played last night. I also found KG's 32 minutes a little concerning in light of the fact that they went small so much. There were at least two stretches where Green was the de facto center.

They'll get lots better. But we should be prepared for contention caliber performances against better teams to be a while in coming.

Sam

[NYCelt]

They'll get lots better. But we should be prepared for contention caliber performances against better teams to be a while in coming.

Sam

Sam,

I'd say your line above is a fair summary. It was one game against the current champion. I expect the Celtics will be a top tier contender this year.

Regards

[cowens/oldschool]

As bad as we looked were alot of glimmers, Barbosa is a blur with skills, can't wait to see AB added to the mix. I thought Doc went too small at times, Green at the 5? glad that wasn't used for too long. I would have liked to see a stretch of KG Wilcox Green Barbosa Rondo or KG/Wilcox Green Lee Barbosa/Terry Rondo. I/we can name more lineups, but I'm sure Doc will figure it out, hes got another 81 games and 324 quarters, not including overtime. Rondo had my kids in awe a couple times, guy has a serious handle and some speed, I'd love to tell D Wade what a punk he really is.

As bad as we looked ALOT of our stuff can be corrected and will over the course of the season, I can't say the same thing for the Lakers. D Howard looks like he lost a step, he missed a couple dunks, Kobe lost a step, Mettaidiot lost a step, Steve Nash got abused, he can't cover at all on the perimeter and is like a turnstile inviting penetration....wait till he gets a whiff of our speed in the backcourt. Barkley kept on saying they gotta run, BUT they can't do it and KEEP the pace, too old not enough depth. Elton Brand was holding his own inside and Mavs won without Dirk and Chris Kamen!!! This was a team that went 0-8 in preseason, first time in history they never won a preseason game. I don't see that team jelling, their defense is not there, Nash can't cover in front on the side and any point can get past him.

I do this great Kobe imitation, its of him covering Jeremy Lin when he said okay now I got him and Lin scored in his face a bunch on his way to 38. Kobe is no longer a stopper and the 2's in the league are alot faster now than 4 years ago. They need to put Kobe at the 3 and get a speedy SG somehow, anyway they got problems!!

[sinus007]

Hi,
Well, that was ugly.
Sporadic offense and sporadic defense. I guess it'd take a few games and practices to iron most of kinks out.
The only bright spot in green was Barbosa. It was very obvious that Mia wanted to win much more than Celtics.
A couple things tic'd me off. How could they managed to allow RA to drive to the hoop? The second is the TNT crew. They called "Play of the Day" when DWade received pass from Chalmers and drove to the basket. They didn't select one of the really good aley-oops by DW and LJ, mind you, but this play. Chalmers got stuck with the ball at the top of the key, all of a sudden he spotted completely open DWade in the corner courtesy to Lee completely blowing his defensive assignment. Oh well...
Another interesting observation. For part of the game I had an impression that RR was "overdoing" it. And then they put a mic on PP and he was yelling to RR: "Stop thinking, just play ball"
Speaking about Rondo. I've got an impression that pressure of being the leader took better of him despite of very good performance - 20/7/13. If that's true, I hope he'll settle in and get things done.
As for the episode when RA came to Boston bench, I wonder how the other players, if he did try to shake hands with them, reacted. They showed sort of a "sliding scale": from Doc =10, through coaches =4-5, to KG =1.

I hope that the last night's lame performance will be on of those "wake up calls" and, starting Fri, Celtics will play as they are capable of playing and win the next 8-10 games.

AK

[Sam]

Cow,

I imagine Doc was as leery as you about using a combination with Green at the 5. I believe he did that more to match what the Heat were doing rather than as a proactive move. The last time, as soon as he put that five on the floor (after a timeout), Spoelstra put Bosh back into the game and Doc had to reinsert KG.

I grudgingly thought Spoelstra outcoached Doc in this one. He did a good job of alternating Ray and Wade and even playing them together (with Wade as the de facto PG). And, in addition to that time involving Green, I thought he forced Doc to match up with the Heat rather than vice versa.

I didn't watch the Lakers game, but some of their problems have to be similar to those of the Celtics—developing chemistry, especially with the two most important positions (PG and C) being new to the team. But somehow, I think that when the Lakers do reach their pootential, some of their problems you mentioned (especially on the defensive end) will not be solved. In other words, I believe that—if you consider the ages, the ability levels, and everything else, the Celtics have more upside than the Lakers. I also believe that upside is going to make the Celtics very competitive with the Heat before the end of the season.

One thing I hope is that Doc will give Barbosa an opportunity to play PG with the bench. I think that, at that position, Terry tends to fold under pressure such as trapping, and having to play PG negatively affects his shooting. The same could be true with Barbosa, but I hope he's given a chance as the position. I'd love to see what a five of Wilcox, Sully, Green, Terry and Barbosa could accomplish once they get acclimated to one another. Sully would be the rebounder/outlet/trailer guy, while the other four could be off to the races.

Stay warm and dry.

Sam

[Sam]

Sinus, at least they should get in one good practice before Friday's game against the Bucks. But I wouldn't count on any long winning streak unless they play a succession of average and below-average teams. The giant leap they need in their chemistry at both ends of the floor won't happen overnight.

Sam

[mrkleen09]

Couple of comments

Rondo had a great performance in spite of the fact that no one on his team was in the places they should have been for most of the night. Pierce yells at him to relax and play his game, and then proceeds to plug up all his driving lanes with his iso ball routine. If anyone on this team has to get with the uptempo program it is the captain.

Green missed a few shots that were going down in the pre-season and then lost his aggressiveness. Hopefully that is a matter of getting used to regular season speed and guarding LeBron....as the C's need Jeff to show up every night.

KG was Missing In Action for much of the game on offense...which is strange as every time he put his head down - he was killing Chris Bosh.

I would like to see Doc force the Heat to match up with the Celtics instead of the other way round. Maybe Wilcox isnt ready yet. Maybe Doc felt after that short stint that Sully did not have the foot speed to compete last night. But I the Heat's weakness is they are soft down low. Would have loved to see the Celtics pound them inside.

Overall, it is one game - along a long and winding road. The Celtics have a complicated system and a very creative PG who needs people to know where their place is - and those things will only come in time.

In the meantime, against teams like Milwaukee - the Celtics have such superior talent that they should win based on that more than anything else. As long as they round into shape by February, I still see them as a very dangerous team for the Heat and all over comers in the NBA.

[bobheckler]

120-107. That's an old school score (NOT the poster from BDC days). A lot of up-and-down.

At the end, Doc had a lineup on the floor that had 6'7" Paul Pierce as the "big". Doc's nuts. I'm not a huge fan of small-ball, I am a HUGE fan of fast-ball, but this is tiny-ball (credit to, I think, NYCelt for that description on the Game On thread). A couple of passes over the top of our miniatures and they were at the rim in size.

We started out with a great uptempo game, but slowed down in the 2nd and 3rd. Thanks to Barbosa, we sped up again in the 4th and made it a game.

When Miami shoots like that from outside, they are extremely tough. When you don't close them out and get a hand in their face or make them move, it's easier for them to shoot like that.

1. Lee looked very good in the first quarter. Hit his shots, played good D on Wade. For a player with a rep for being a face-up shooter, he sure hits a lot of shots off the dribble. It started going downhill after that, bit by bit, until by the 4th quarter he didn't even know where Wade was. First game as a Celtic. How he looks over the next few weeks will show us more as to his true worth. Mixed reviews on him now. I don't understand how a veteran player can start off good and decline. I understand starting off rusty, but aren't you suppose to gain "feel" and "rhythm" and "focus" as you play more minutes and lose those as you get tired? Courtney Lee only played 24 minutes. I don't think fatigue is an excuse.

2. Rondo was fired up. He ran it down their throats. A little out of control with his passes, creating turnovers. You can't throw those passes around a team as quick as Miami. They rotated quite well last night. 20 points on 9-14, 13 assists, 7 rebounds and only 4 turnovers. However, he played 44 minutes. That's WAY too many. Unfortunately, our offense became very choppy and dysfunctional in the few minutes he sat. He's ready for the season, but our overall team offensive chemistry is not.

3. KG was practically invisible. He was outplayed by Bosh and Lewis, IMO. A lot of his 12 rebounds came towards the end. His 5 TOs hurt. There's something wrong when your center has more turnovers than your point guard. Doc has been treating KG like he was a Ming Dynasty vase this pre-season, protecting him and playing him limited minutes. I understand why, he's key to our championship hopes, but could he still have too much rust on him from the summer? He didn't appear ready for the season.

4. The Captain led by example. He was on fire on both ends. What's disturbing is that he was still a -17. In fact, ALL our starters were negative. +/- doesn't mean much with the bench, since you don't know who they're on the floor with, how many starters, etc.; but starters usually play a lot of minutes together as a unit, and so the +/- does matter.

5. Steady Brandon Bass just goes out there and does his job. First game, last game, Miami, Charlotte. He doesn't care.

6. Sully didn't have a great debut. Welcome to the NBA kid, these games count and the players now play as if they do. As pointed out by Sam, a largely invisible evening for Sully. Not much of anything.

7. Jeff Green turned back into a pumpkin on the night before Halloween. 0-4, 3 rebounds. This is the Jeff Green we saw 2 years ago, not the one we saw this pre-season. He was not ready for the season, at least not mentally. He was NOT aggressive at all last night.

8. Well, I suppose I have to mention the matchup between Ray Allen and Jason Terry. Clearly, Ray won this battle. He hit his shots, including one Hail Mary at the buzzer. He ran around like he always does. Talk to me about this again in March/April and we'll see what his ankles are like. Terry didn't stay with him, shot 2-7 himself, including 0-3 from 3, and had 3 TOs to only 1 assist. This is the downside of talking smack, JET, when you don't deliver on your big talk you look like shit and last night you looked like shit. You didn't shoot well, you didn't defend well, you didn't floor general well, you didn't take care of the rock well.

9. Doc is in rapture with small-ball (my cringing notwithstanding). That being the case, I predict The Blur will be seeing more floor time in the near future. There was talk that he had lost his speed after his brief stay in Toronto and Indiana last year. Well, that talk was just that. He did one coast-to-coast run with the ball that was so quick I couldn't believe it. John Wall might be a bit quicker but Barbosa was in control the whole run (Wall isn't, sometimes). Rondo is one of the quickest players in the league and Barbosa did this break even faster. He would have had at least one more assist to his total except that there were two Celtics in the zone he was passing to, meaning there were two defenders too, and he turned it over. I don't blame Barbosa for that, it was a good play by him, someone was not where they were supposed to be. Unlike Terry, he hit his shots (6-8, including 3-3 from 3). 16 points in 16 minutes. His defense was a bit suspect, but so was everybody else's. GREAT energy off the bench from a player who has only been with the team a week. I don't expect JET to keep playing like he did last night, but the Barbosa signing is looking like another coup for Danny and Doc. He was being pursued by the Lakers and us and his agent told him that Boston would be better for him DESPITE our depth at guard. Either the agent saw a weakness in our guard corp that Barbosa could fill/exploit (I doubt it) or that recommendation is a tribute to Danny, Doc and the rest of the roster.

10. Rashard Lewis scored in the paint. If that's not pathetic defense, I don't know what is.

11. They shot over 54% for the game. They shot 50% from 3. We didn't close out the 3ptrs. They only had 8 TOs. Some of that was good chemistry and more careful passes by the Heat and some of it was just bad defense by us. We played horrible defense. Wade getting dunks off of baseline runs? How do you lose him like that, Lee? Chris Bosh finishing fast breaks? I don't know if that was KG or Green or Sully, but that shouldn't happen. Bosh isn't that fast, he's more of a halfcourt player.

Ok, so, we finally got this game out of the way. Now we can settle down and focus. Doc has a lot of work to do. If you're going to go with a quick lineup, there's no excuse for not getting up on shooters and making their passes more "iffy". We had a nice run or two, which is what uptempo teams should see. We had 27 easy, fastbreak points. That's nice. The game was lost with turnovers, not just the 16 we committed but their stingy total of 8, and a few more 3s by them. Over the coming months our defense should firm up and we'll see the opposition having more turnovers. There's no reason for a turnover if the defense isn't pressuring you hard, is there?

Glimmers: Rondo, Pierce, Barbosa, uptempo.
Glowers: KG, Green, JET, team defense, chemistry.


bob


.

[rickdavisakaspike]

They made too much out of this game, from Doc playing the video every day at Healthpoint, to being confronted over and over with the traitor Ray Allen's delusions. Rondo was over-reaching, like the typical Greek tragic hero, So were KG and JG. Once they all settle down, they'll be ready for another shot at the pretenders. There was no lack of ganas in the face of Miami's incredible shooting and they found a new weapon in Barbosa. It was disappointing, not devastating.

Rondo is way too amped up over Miami. He doesn't just want to beat the Heat, he wants to hurt Dwayne Wade. That ain't good; understandable, mayhaps, but a healthy mind lets go of anger or channels it in a positive direction. In the fourth quarter, Wade made a threatening gesture, like he was about to throw the ball at him when Rondo committed the flagrant, but it was only a feint. He's still afraid of Rondo. That ain't good, either. Wade's a bully and a chicken, but he must see something in Rondo's eyes that's borderline out of control.

This is still bad blood being carried over from two years ago. What Wade did to Rondo's shoulder was deliberately intended to injure and it went unpunished. Now, add Allen to that already volatile mix and Rondo needs to see one of those sports psychologists, like the Bruins used to have. Rondo pretended Allen wasn't even there last night - makes it tough to play defense when you refuse to look at one of the guys you're supposed to be defending.

Rondo will survive and prosper. No doubt he already has the next Heat/Celtics game circled on his calendar. If he dresses up tonite for Halloween, I wonder if he'll wear a DWade mask?

[bobheckler]

As bad as we looked were alot of glimmers, Barbosa is a blur with skills, can't wait to see AB added to the mix. I thought Doc went too small at times, Green at the 5? glad that wasn't used for too long. I would have liked to see a stretch of KG Wilcox Green Barbosa Rondo or KG/Wilcox Green Lee Barbosa/Terry Rondo. I/we can name more lineups, but I'm sure Doc will figure it out, hes got another 81 games and 324 quarters, not including overtime. Rondo had my kids in awe a couple times, guy has a serious handle and some speed, I'd love to tell D Wade what a punk he really is.

As bad as we looked ALOT of our stuff can be corrected and will over the course of the season, I can't say the same thing for the Lakers. D Howard looks like he lost a step, he missed a couple dunks, Kobe lost a step, Mettaidiot lost a step, Steve Nash got abused, he can't cover at all on the perimeter and is like a turnstile inviting penetration....wait till he gets a whiff of our speed in the backcourt. Barkley kept on saying they gotta run, BUT they can't do it and KEEP the pace, too old not enough depth. Elton Brand was holding his own inside and Mavs won without Dirk and Chris Kamen!!! This was a team that went 0-8 in preseason, first time in history they never won a preseason game. I don't see that team jelling, their defense is not there, Nash can't cover in front on the side and any point can get past him.

I do this great Kobe imitation, its of him covering Jeremy Lin when he said okay now I got him and Lin scored in his face a bunch on his way to 38. Kobe is no longer a stopper and the 2's in the league are alot faster now than 4 years ago. They need to put Kobe at the 3 and get a speedy SG somehow, anyway they got problems!!

cow,

I watched the first half of the Laker-Maverick game (I didn't see any green, so I lost interest).

What I saw was a physically diminished Kobe Bryant. He took the entire week off due to a badly bruised foot. It was so sore he couldn't walk on it a few days and had a precautionary MRI). I don't think we can say what his game still is until this foot heals. When Pierce took a knee to his thigh last playoffs and was diminished all that was necessary for him to get back to 100% was rest. Playing 35 minutes probably wasn't the road to doing that. Maybe that's the story with Kobe here. He needs to rest, however much he hates to sit, and heal.

They ran a bunch of picks and drew double-teams. Every time they did, they threw the ball up towards the front of the rim and let Howard go for it. Very smart, and effective. I see in the boxscore that D12 fouled out. Some of that will be his lack of conditioning from missing camp, costing him a half-step, and some of that will be his having to switch to cover Nash's man. Poor perimeter defense produces fouls on baseline defenders.

Pau Gasol is ready for the season.

Steve Nash looked old. No speed anymore. In the halfcourt he'd waste 8 seconds dribbling around the top of the key and then do a little penetration and kick it back to Gasol for a jumper from the top of the key. He could have had that at any time. Even when he ran the few fast breaks he ran he didn't run them to the rim, he pulled "a Bradley", referring to Bradley's old way of running it to the top of the key and then pulling up and waiting for his teammates (and the defense) to catch up. Btw, if you can come up with a better, newer moniker than "pulling a Bradley", I'd love to hear it. It looked like Bradley got over that last season, but I don't know who else to use.

Blake sucks. Always has, always will. My good friend Will is a die-hard Laker fan and I go round-and-round with him about Blake. Blake sucks.

Jordan Hill looked very good. I like him a lot. How long he can stave off his herniated disk issues over the long season remains to be seen.

TAFKARA was 1-8. As we saw in Game 7 a few years back he can suddenly go off and score a bunch too. This is one game.

The Lakers have, perhaps, even bigger chemistry issues than we do. Two new starters vs one for us, two new subs too.

The chemistry issues, for both teams, will resolve themselves in the coming months. Howard's conditioning will improve too. Kobe's foot will heal. I'm interested to see what Nash has left, whether this game is an indication or not. Nash's game will get better as their chemistry improves, since he is the Rondo of their team, but he has to be able to haul his own weight too. Last night he didn't. Blake will still suck.

I wouldn't read too much into the Lakers loss last night, just as I wouldn't start throwing dirt on top of the Celtics either. We're barely out of the gate.

On the other hand, Dallas played without Nowitski, and that's a BIG hole to fill.


bob


.

[bobheckler]

ESPN-Boston.

de Microondas. I'm not sure that will fly, but it's the right thought.


MIAMI -- In the fourth quarter of their season-opening win over the Celtics, the Heat were without LeBron James,
who sat out with leg cramps. But even if the planet’s best basketball
player were in the game and healthy, it’s a good bet he wouldn’t have
been able to stop ...


Leandro Barbosa
.


OK, that’s certainly a stretch. But LeBron on the floor or not,
120-107 loss or not, the Celtics were pleased to get an outstanding late
push from Barbosa, who played every minute of the fourth and scored 16
points on 6-of-8 shooting, including 3-of-3 from downtown.




Issac Baldizon/Getty ImagesA member of the Celtics for just three weeks, Leandro Barbosa played the entire fourth quarter and scored 16 points.


With Barbosa playing in a small lineup that included Rajon Rondo and Jason Terry,
the Celtics trimmed a 19-point Heat lead to four with two minutes
remaining. Barbosa hit his first six shots, and Boston had the Heat’s
championship victory lap temporarily stalled.


Call him de Microondas. The Microwave. The Brazilian was
instant offense for the C’s in the fourth, one of few bright spots in a
disappointing opening-night effort.


“He was terrific,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “If you're getting
into a scoring contest and Barbosa's on the floor, you're going to feel
pretty good about it.”



Barbosa, who signed with the Celtics less than three weeks ago for
the veteran’s minimum, is a former sixth man of the year. He’s used to
coming off the bench and attacking. In an already loaded backcourt
that’s still without defender Avery Bradley, Barbosa proved in Game 1 he’s another flexible piece for Rivers to use.


Most importantly, he was assertive on a night in which many Celtics
were far less than that. He scored nine points over a 2:02 stretch,
giving Boston a spark it desperately needed.



“He's clearly not scared of the moment,” Rivers said. “He bailed us
out. We got back in that game down the stretch, and it was because
Barbosa was on the floor.”


Forward Brandon Bass also made the most of his opportunity. Bass, who started along with guard Courtney Lee, Rondo, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett, hauled in 11 rebounds, including six on the offensive glass, and put up
15 points in just over 28 minutes. While Rivers said Bass needs to talk
more defensively, the seventh-year man made his presence felt.


“Hell, he should have played 40 minutes,” Rivers said. “You know? Because I thought he was one of the aggressive ones.”



There were other Boston positives. Jason Terry had a second-quarter
stretch where he scored eight straight, cutting Miami’s lead to 40-36.
Lee, whose night was otherwise forgettable (11 points, 5 fouls), shot
5-of-6 and played strong on-ball defense against Dwyane Wade.


Whether it was the new pieces they were fitting in -- five of the
nine Celtics in Tuesday's rotation didn't play for Boston last year --
or a classic case of nerves, Miami “took the fight to us most of the
night,” Rivers said.



“I thought they were the more physical team, I thought they were
mentally tougher than us, and I thought when we made our runs, I thought
they kept their composure. When they made their runs, we weren't very
good with keeping our composure.”



When the Celtics were shooting, shots were falling. They hit 52
percent from the floor, including 6-of-13 (46.2 percent) on 3-pointers.
But Pierce (23 points) and especially Garnett (9 points, 12 rebounds)
never sustained offensive output, while Rondo (20 points, 13 assists in a
game-high 43:33) was frustrated with his team’s lack of flow.



“I look at the number 107 [points] and 52 percent [shooting], but I
know as a coach, our continuity offensively was horrendous,” Rivers
said. “We never got to the second and third option, and it's not because
of their defense. We didn't allow ourselves to. We didn't trust it. We
broke it down a lot. That’s going to take time.”



The Celtics outrebounded Miami, 41-36. The turnover edge went
decidedly to the Heat (15 to , plus the Heat had five blocks to
Boston’s two, eight steals to Boston’s four, and pressed the issue all
night long.



And it assuredly would have been worse had LeBron been in the game.



“I don't think either coach would be real happy,” Rivers said. “For
two defensive teams, I thought it was a bunch of fool's gold offense.
Both teams went ultra-small and tried to attack.”



The problem with that, Rivers added, was Miami attacked the whole game, while Boston’s charges were few and far between.




bob



.

[cowens/oldschool]

Sam

The Lakers are on a roll 0-9, they are clearly hurting, Kobe is battling injuries and Dwight Howard never looked slower, he had NO lift. They got an old point guard thats also slowed down at the one position you need speed.....I see them being the bust of the year as its too easy to get perimeter shots and penetration on them and they can also be run on in transition. Even if Howard and Kobe get better and its no guarentee, they're just too old and slow everywhere IMHO.

cow

[mulcogiseng]

Seemed clear to me that the C's were about ten points worser than the heat all night. There were some off nights last night. That won't always be the case. I still expect the Celtics to win games vs Miami. RA was his olde self last night. I did not enjoy it but at least he came to play. Lots of glimmer, not much to get really discouraged about. They didn't figure it out until after the all star break last year. or didn't try to. They will run more this year. Even PP will run at times. Didn't feel that Doc had much choice but to match spoilster's lineup. Sully is not quite ready for this level but given the right matchups he will be alright. All we really learned last night is that the C's won't go undefeated this season. We will know more about what this team is really made of about the time Bradley comes back. Then a brief adjustment period, and on to the finals.

[sinus007]

Hi,
OT, kind of.
I noticed that on Celtics-Heat post-game thread a lot of posters talk about Lakers. Old habits die hard, don't they?
BTW, Bobh, what T and A stand for in TAFKARA?

AK

[Outside]

I didn't see the whole game, but I saw enough to make a few observations.

I was shocked at how good Miami looked. The usual performance for a ring ceremony is to lay an egg, but the Heat did the opposite. The game had playoff intensity, and the Celtics didn't keep up.

The box score says Boston had 16 turnovers, but it seemed like more. Miami won the points-off-turnovers differential 19-6. A lot of credit goes to Miami's quickness on defense, but you've gotta take care of the ball better than that, especially against the Heat.

The C's obviously have some, um, defensive issues. I would expect those to be corrected during the season, but I'd expect the film session for this game to be mighty uncomfortable. There was a definite lack of team cohesion on defense, which is somewhat surprising considering that's been a hallmark of the Celtics.

Rashard Lewis scored in the paint. If that's not pathetic defense, I don't know what is.

That about sums it up.

Ray Allen came to play. I expect things to change in Boston's favor over time, especially once Bradley returns, but until they prove they can do anything to stop him, the Celtics need to stop talking about Ray. They forced themselves into that position by letting him run wild. Did they think he'd treat this like just another game by just another player? Because that's how they defended him.

Wade whining about Rondo being a "punk" for his flagrant foul was pathetic. I didn't actually see that part of the game live, so when I read Wade's quote, I expected a blatantly bad play by Rondo out of frustration, which he's been known to do. Then when I saw the replay, I thought what a ticky-tack flagrant it was. The only reason it's a flagrant is because Rondo attempted to grab Wade around the neck. My respect for LeBron has gone up almost as much as my dislike and disrespect for Wade. If he wants to see a punk, he should look at his own reaction when Rondo dislocated his elbow in the 2011 playoffs.

It was good to see Jeff Green on the floor.

I've never thought Jason Terry was particularly good in the point guard/creator role. He's more of a shooting guard, and relying on him to be Rondo's backup could be problematic against better teams like the Heat.

Barbosa is a nice addition.

I really like Brandon Bass.

The Lakers will be fine. Sorry.

So will the Celtics. The Heat were great and Boston's defense was awful, but I see a lot of potential in the Celtics.


Outside

[Outside]

TAFKARA -- The Artist Formerly Known As Ron Artest. Isn't that it?

Although with an "F" in there, I suppose other variations are possible.

[bobheckler]

Hi,
OT, kind of.
I noticed that on Celtics-Heat post-game thread a lot of posters talk about Lakers. Old habits die hard, don't they?
BTW, Bobh, what T and A stand for in TAFKARA?

AK

sinus,

TAFKARA = The Asshole Formerly Known As Ron Artest.


bob


.

[Outside]

I see my acronym etymology was missing a little BobH flair. Gotta remember that one.

[beat]

Turnovers period, both ways

Had too many and didn't force many.

Hard to win any game against anyone with those. 15 chances to score that we never got. Not all were totally careless but many certainly were ill advised.

so we go 81-1 now........

beat

[bobheckler]

I see my acronym etymology was missing a little BobH flair. Gotta remember that one.

outside,

"Pith". I believe the word you're looking for is "pithy".

:-)


bob

.

[tjmakz]

As bad as we looked were alot of glimmers, Barbosa is a blur with skills, can't wait to see AB added to the mix. I thought Doc went too small at times, Green at the 5? glad that wasn't used for too long. I would have liked to see a stretch of KG Wilcox Green Barbosa Rondo or KG/Wilcox Green Lee Barbosa/Terry Rondo. I/we can name more lineups, but I'm sure Doc will figure it out, hes got another 81 games and 324 quarters, not including overtime. Rondo had my kids in awe a couple times, guy has a serious handle and some speed, I'd love to tell D Wade what a punk he really is.

As bad as we looked ALOT of our stuff can be corrected and will over the course of the season, I can't say the same thing for the Lakers. D Howard looks like he lost a step, he missed a couple dunks, Kobe lost a step, Mettaidiot lost a step, Steve Nash got abused, he can't cover at all on the perimeter and is like a turnstile inviting penetration....wait till he gets a whiff of our speed in the backcourt. Barkley kept on saying they gotta run, BUT they can't do it and KEEP the pace, too old not enough depth. Elton Brand was holding his own inside and Mavs won without Dirk and Chris Kamen!!! This was a team that went 0-8 in preseason, first time in history they never won a preseason game. I don't see that team jelling, their defense is not there, Nash can't cover in front on the side and any point can get past him.

I do this great Kobe imitation, its of him covering Jeremy Lin when he said okay now I got him and Lin scored in his face a bunch on his way to 38. Kobe is no longer a stopper and the 2's in the league are alot faster now than 4 years ago. They need to put Kobe at the 3 and get a speedy SG somehow, anyway they got problems!!

cow,

I watched the first half of the Laker-Maverick game (I didn't see any green, so I lost interest).

What I saw was a physically diminished Kobe Bryant. He took the entire week off due to a badly bruised foot. It was so sore he couldn't walk on it a few days and had a precautionary MRI). I don't think we can say what his game still is until this foot heals. When Pierce took a knee to his thigh last playoffs and was diminished all that was necessary for him to get back to 100% was rest. Playing 35 minutes probably wasn't the road to doing that. Maybe that's the story with Kobe here. He needs to rest, however much he hates to sit, and heal.

They ran a bunch of picks and drew double-teams. Every time they did, they threw the ball up towards the front of the rim and let Howard go for it. Very smart, and effective. I see in the boxscore that D12 fouled out. Some of that will be his lack of conditioning from missing camp, costing him a half-step, and some of that will be his having to switch to cover Nash's man. Poor perimeter defense produces fouls on baseline defenders.

Pau Gasol is ready for the season.

Steve Nash looked old. No speed anymore. In the halfcourt he'd waste 8 seconds dribbling around the top of the key and then do a little penetration and kick it back to Gasol for a jumper from the top of the key. He could have had that at any time. Even when he ran the few fast breaks he ran he didn't run them to the rim, he pulled "a Bradley", referring to Bradley's old way of running it to the top of the key and then pulling up and waiting for his teammates (and the defense) to catch up. Btw, if you can come up with a better, newer moniker than "pulling a Bradley", I'd love to hear it. It looked like Bradley got over that last season, but I don't know who else to use.

Blake sucks. Always has, always will. My good friend Will is a die-hard Laker fan and I go round-and-round with him about Blake. Blake sucks.

Jordan Hill looked very good. I like him a lot. How long he can stave off his herniated disk issues over the long season remains to be seen.

TAFKARA was 1-8. As we saw in Game 7 a few years back he can suddenly go off and score a bunch too. This is one game.

The Lakers have, perhaps, even bigger chemistry issues than we do. Two new starters vs one for us, two new subs too.

The chemistry issues, for both teams, will resolve themselves in the coming months. Howard's conditioning will improve too. Kobe's foot will heal. I'm interested to see what Nash has left, whether this game is an indication or not. Nash's game will get better as their chemistry improves, since he is the Rondo of their team, but he has to be able to haul his own weight too. Last night he didn't. Blake will still suck.

I wouldn't read too much into the Lakers loss last night, just as I wouldn't start throwing dirt on top of the Celtics either. We're barely out of the gate.

On the other hand, Dallas played without Nowitski, and that's a BIG hole to fill.


bob


.

bob,

I thought I would comment on your and cowens points about the Lakers.
D12 has not lost a step, he just looks lost in this offense.
In the Lakers 2nd to last pre-season game, Dwight looked like he could jump out of the gym.
Last night Dwight couldn't get going offensively or defensively.

MWP was 1 for 8 but three of his shots rimmed off after being half way down, but it still counts as 1 for 8.

Kobe has lost a step as has every sinle player in the league north of 32 years old.
Kobe did not force any shots as he did so often last year. His 11-14 proves that point.

Nash looks the most lost in Mike Brown's offense.
I know that they feel like their new hybrid offense will be successful but it will just take time.
Maybe it will or maybe it won't work.
Worst case scenario is to have Nash focus on the pick and roll with Gasol and Howard consistently.
A big part of their putrid offense last night was that they were getting their plays started in the last 8 seconds and were still 25 feet from the basket.
Nash will be fine when they let him do what he does best.
This is a huge adjustment for the Lakers as a team. They have never had a skilled point guard like Nash who can dictate the offense.

Jordan Hill looked great and very expolsive. He will be a big part of the rotation.

Steve Blake is what he is. He can hit shots when he has space to shoot.
Last night the Lakers offensive spacing was horrible.
Blake couldn't get an open look.
If someone would take Blake off of their hands LA would be more then willing to accept a 2018 2nd round pick for him...

Gasol was focused and looked great last night.
He really tried hard to get Dwight easy shots.

The Lakers 2012-13 bench should be just as good or better then many of the bench players that were on their championship teams.

Free throw shooting: Yuck.
They can only get better, right?

The only thing that I liked about last nights game is that Kobe stayed composed and didn't try to take the game over and go 1 for 10 in the 4th quarter.
I expect that they will be fine but they will take their lumps over the next 6 weeks or so.

My thoughts about the Boston/Miami game.
I thought their offense looked great.
They are obviously much more talented then previous years on the offensive side of the ball, but I believe those players don't have the defensive abilities or desire that previous players had.
Rondo is going to get himself in trouble this year if he can't keep himself in check.
I bet he already has a target on his back with the referees due to his issues from previous years.
As fast and talented as Rondo is, I just don't understand why he cannot keep the offensive guy in front of him.
It seems like he is fine letting him get by then try to hit the ball away.
Rondo's offensive game is almost unstoppable.
Teams now just have to hope he misses shots as they do when they play against LeBron because no player can stop them.

Paul looked great through 2 1/2 quarters then seemed to run out of gas, which is not surprising for an older player.

I am sure they will play more in upcoming games, but I am a little surprised that Sullinger only played 8 minutes and Wilcox, Darko and Collins received DNP-CD's.
I do agree with Doc for keeping them on the bench due to the matchup, but I would have liked to see them a little in game 1.

Boston will be fine.
They have the talent to be successful and the 2nd best coach in the league (in my opinion).
Getting past Miami will be quite a challenge.

[sinus007]

Hi,
OT, kind of.
I noticed that on Celtics-Heat post-game thread a lot of posters talk about Lakers. Old habits die hard, don't they?
BTW, Bobh, what T and A stand for in TAFKARA?

AK

sinus,

TAFKARA = The Asshole Formerly Known As Ron Artest.


bob


.

I thought so. Thank you.

[NYCelt]

Re: Lakers last night.

I would chalk many of the issues up to the difficulties of learning and incorporating that Princeton offense.

Once they get it clicking things will turn around dramatically.

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