The Lakers' Season after Starting 1-4

I watched the video and the best angle was at the very end. (.47 is the start, .48 and .49 is the play and Kobe is on the ground by .50) Kobe kicked out very much with his right leg to create the contact, he kicked out a little with his left leg, which is the one that got injured.

It was a fall-away, and when Kobe landed, his torso was so far back, it looked like he would have fallen down anyway. Jones was never under Kobe's body, just under his feet when they came down. That would never happened if Kobe hadn't kicked out.

The fact that the league issued any kind of a statement about a missed foul is pathetic. Fouls get missed all the time. Case in point, the one tardust mentioned. I don't remember any league statement about that one. That was blatant and surely cost us that game

Here is a comment from the latest article:

Wenbo: I'm a Laker fan and hope Kobe gets better fast, but I don't get why the NBA has to issue a special statement about this missed call. There are lots of missed calls almost every day in the NBA. By making such a statement they're just reinforcing the idea that the NBA gives special treatment to certain players.

Kobe will not get any sympathy from me. He kicked out and initiated the contact. He does get special treatment and the leagues response is further proof of that.

As Dahntay said in his tweet, "Stop it!"

gyso

tjmakz wrote:This is not about the Celtics. This is about Jones coming under Kobe while he was in the air. Kobe did not make contact with Jones. Please be honest enough to put away your hatred for Kobe and see the facts as they happened.

You my friend were the one that said something to the effect that this missed foul call very well could have cost the Lakers the game. That has nothing to do with whether it was a foul or not. You were referring to it from a team standpoint. So I brought up a horrible call against the Bulls that cost us a game and it wasn't made a big deal out of.

I will say a foul could have been called and wasn't. I do not think it was intentional. I will also say a lot of fouls are not called at the end of game. Kobe gets way more than his share though. Now you be honest and answer this question. Does Kobe get more than his fair share of calls in his favor- true or false.. Please don't let the Kobe can do no wrong interfere with your honesty.

Now I was honest and said it could have been a foul. Kobe obviously stuck his leg out as well. Now I await the answers from you.

Tardust,

How does the referees missing a foul call not have anything to do the end result of the game? A foul absolutely should have been called. Not could have been. The league made that point yesterday. For anyone that thnks that Jones did not come into Kobe and put his right leg under him after Kobe had jumped is being dishonest.

Does Kobe get his fair share of calls? That is a very broad question. In general, the superstars get more calls than the non superstars. If you post a particular play about Kobe, I will give you my opinion.

tj,

I reviewed the video and I have an opinion. It is my opinion. Just because it isn't the same opinion as yours does not make me "dishonest".

I paused the video, and moved it slide by slide, each slide seemed to represent a second. I repeated this process many times to be sure. If Kobe does not kick out, his foot would not have come down on the defender's foot.

Calling me or my opinion "dishonest" will not change my opinion.

gyso

tjmakz wrote:Tardust,

How does the referees missing a foul call not have anything to do the end result of the game? A foul absolutely should have been called. Not could have been. The league made that point yesterday. For anyone that thnks that Jones did not come into Kobe and put his right leg under him after Kobe had jumped is being dishonest.

Does Kobe get his fair share of calls? That is a very broad question. In general, the superstars get more calls than the non superstars. If you post a particular play about Kobe, I will give you my opinion.

Because we were talking about it whether it was a foul or not. We were not talking about whether it cost them the game or not. That was not the discussion. When you brought that into play about the outcome of the game could have been different, I merely pointed out that we got a game stole from us that was far more obvious.

Yes the league made a point that the ref missed a foul. Funny how many times do you see that? Don't recall them saying they missed the foul call on Pierce against the Bulls.

You are just hiding from the question about whether Kobe gets more than his share of calls. I didn't say a word about a superstar, just Kobe in particular. And anyone that says Kobe doesn't get more than his fair share of calls is also dishonest.

For the record I never said there was not a foul. I said Kobe also stuck out his leg. Can you say how much that had to do with the play?

Tardust,

In my original post about this play, I wrote about how this non-call could have changed the outcome of the game, since Kobe would have been at the FT for 2 shots. Again, what does this have to do with a Celtics loss? Please post the play that you keep bringing up because I don't remember it.

Again, Kobe and other stars get calls. Please bring up some particular calls that Kobe has received. I can bring up plays at the end of games where Kobe did not get a call when there should have been a foul call.

This is what you said about Bowens response:

If you want something really funny, Bruce Bowen was breaking down the play for ESPN. He was taking Kobe's side. Really unbelievable considering Bowen was best known for this same tactic. I guess he would know though.. What "tactic" are you referring to? Coming under a player when the shooter is in the air?

Kobe jumped in the air, Jones moved into Kobe and brought his right leg under Kobe which caused Kobe's left foot to land on Jones right foot. Kobe's right leg touched Jones but that is incidental contact, that is not a push off or used to gain separation. There was plenty of separation until Jones moved into Kobe's body and space.

Are you guys familiar with the history Jones has with Kobe?

gyso wrote:tj,

I reviewed the video and I have an opinion. It is my opinion. Just because it isn't the same opinion as yours does not make me "dishonest".

I paused the video, and moved it slide by slide, each slide seemed to represent a second. I repeated this process many times to be sure. If Kobe does not kick out, his foot would not have come down on the defender's foot.

Calling me or my opinion "dishonest" will not change my opinion.

gyso

gyso,

Below is what I believe you base your analysis on.
On 3/10/13 you posted about how much you hate Kobe and the Lakers.
I don't think it is a coincidence that gyso and Tardust talked 5 days ago about how much they hate Kobe and the Lakers and now they are taking this stance on the play that the NBA said should have been a foul. The question should not be a foul or not, it should be whether it was intentional on Jones part.



Well they are tied with Utah in the loss column, 1 game back of Houston in the loss column, and even Golden State is only 2 ahead in the loss column. The rest of the month the Lakers schedule looks very doable for them. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the month they catch at least two of the 3 teams I mentioned. I am sure Lakers fans could care less about a injury to Al Jefferson with all the injuries they have had. Just trying to be realistic here. You won't find anyone around here or anywhere else that dislikes the Lakers or Kobe more than myself either.

Tardust,

I believe I could give you a run for your money on that one!!! (LOL)

gyso.

tjmakz wrote:Tardust,

In my original post about this play, I wrote about how this non-call could have changed the outcome of the game, since Kobe would have been at the FT for 2 shots. Again, what does this have to do with a Celtics loss? Please post the play that you keep bringing up because I don't remember it.

Again, Kobe and other stars get calls. Please bring up some particular calls that Kobe has received. I can bring up plays at the end of games where Kobe did not get a call when there should have been a foul call.

This is what you said about Bowens response:

If you want something really funny, Bruce Bowen was breaking down the play for ESPN. He was taking Kobe's side. Really unbelievable considering Bowen was best known for this same tactic. I guess he would know though.. What "tactic" are you referring to? Coming under a player when the shooter is in the air?

Kobe jumped in the air, Jones moved into Kobe and brought his right leg under Kobe which caused Kobe's left foot to land on Jones right foot. Kobe's right leg touched Jones but that is incidental contact, that is not a push off or used to gain separation. There was plenty of separation until Jones moved into Kobe's body and space.

Are you guys familiar with the history Jones has with Kobe?

My quote on Bowen was simple, had nothing to do with Kobe. It was Bowen was known for sliding under people and now he was saying someone else slid under someone and it was a foul. Thats all I was talking about. The statement was about Bowen.

Again the discussion started about a nonfoul call\cheapshot, not about it costing the Lakers a game. I merely pointed out we lost a game that was a worse call IMO.
I think pretty much all this discussion is proving is you wear purple glasses just as much as we wear green glasses.
I have never hid the fact I don't like the Lakers and Kobe. Never have and never will. I disliked the Lakers long before Kobe was around. So your saying its a foul and I am pretty much saying those fouls happen all the time at the end of the game with nothing being called. Have I said that it wasn't a foul? Are you saying Kobe should get all those calls? Do you really know how much Kobe's extended leg really affected the play? I know I can't for sure. Now tell me, can you?

I am not going to try and blow sunshine in unkown places to make you think I like the Lakers. I will however try to be respectful of other opinions without bringing in who they like or don't like being a factor in their opinion. I can look objectively just as easy as anyone else.

tj,

I believe the word was "dislike", not hate. How disingenuous of you to get that wrong.

See my reply to MD on another thread regarding Kobe stepping under Perk. I even supplied the link to the video. I could have simply agreed to that particular urban legend Kobe-bash, but I did not.

Please continue to fail,

gyso

Bowen was talking about Kobe, how was your comment not about Kobe?
In my original post about this subject, I mentioned how this non-call could have changed the outcome of the game. This doesn't even factor in the outcome of future games with Kobe out or injured.

The league backed up my opinion, they didn't back up yours.
Video backed up my opinion, it didn't back up yours.
This is not about what glasses we wear.
Do you think Mark Jackson's comments about the play are because he wears purple glasses?
"It's not a clean play. It's a dirty play," said Golden State Warriors coach Mark Jackson, who was a teammate of Rose, on ESPN Radio's "The Herd" on Thursday. "I'm not sure if Dahntay Jones did it intentionally. But he certainly did go under Kobe and didn't allow him room to land, which is rule No. 1.

Rule #1 in basketball is you don't come under a player when he is shooting.
I taught my teams that when I coached and I play with that in mind when I play every week.

You try to be civil about the Lakers and Kobe but it's evident you don't mean it.

gyso wrote:tj,

I believe the word was "dislike", not hate. How disingenuous of you to get that wrong.

See my reply to MD on another thread regarding Kobe stepping under Perk. I even supplied the link to the video. I could have simply agreed to that particular urban legend Kobe-bash, but I did not.

Please continue to fail,

gyso

Please post the video of Kobe stepping under Perkins.
How do I know what thread you posted a video to?
Was Perkins shooting the ball or were they going for a rebound?

Tardust,

Please post the video of this non-call you keep mentioning about the Celtics.

tjmakz wrote:

gyso wrote:tj,

I believe the word was "dislike", not hate. How disingenuous of you to get that wrong.

See my reply to MD on another thread regarding Kobe stepping under Perk. I even supplied the link to the video. I could have simply agreed to that particular urban legend Kobe-bash, but I did not.

Please continue to fail,

gyso

Please post the video of Kobe stepping under Perkins.
How do I know what thread you posted a video to?
Was Perkins shooting the ball or were they going for a rebound?

It shouldn't be too hard for you to find. It is the only thread on this site that mentions Dahntay Jones and it was started by MD (MDCelticsFan).

Even a caveman could figure that out. SMH

I did see that video.

How does your comment in that thread apply here?
If you tried to claim that Perkins stepped on Kobe's foot, you would have looked foolish. Does your comment somehow justify your take in this thread?

tjmakz wrote:Bowen was talking about Kobe, how was your comment not about Kobe?
In my original post about this subject, I mentioned how this non-call could have changed the outcome of the game. This doesn't even factor in the outcome of future games with Kobe out or injured.

The league backed up my opinion, they didn't back up yours.
Video backed up my opinion, it didn't back up yours.
This is not about what glasses we wear.
Do you think Mark Jackson's comments about the play are because he wears purple glasses?
"It's not a clean play. It's a dirty play," said Golden State Warriors coach Mark Jackson, who was a teammate of Rose, on ESPN Radio's "The Herd" on Thursday. "I'm not sure if Dahntay Jones did it intentionally. But he certainly did go under Kobe and didn't allow him room to land, which is rule No. 1.

Rule #1 in basketball is you don't come under a player when he is shooting.
I taught my teams that when I coached and I play with that in mind when I play every week.

You try to be civil about the Lakers and Kobe but it's evident you don't mean it.

TJ,
Again, I was talking about Bowen ,not Kobe. I already explained that Bowen was known for it, thats what I thought was funny, that he did it so many years and then was taking the side of the offensive player. I would have said the same thing if it would have been another player and we were discussing it. Did you not know that Bowen was known for this?

The league backed up your opinion, not mine? How many times have you disagreed with something the league has done or said? If it wasn't Kobe we wouldn't even be discussing this. I just stated the obvious, Kobe stuck his leg out, or was I wrong about that? Please show me where I said Jones didn't go under him?
Does Mark Jackson know something about a play he saw on video, and that makes him smarter than the rest of us? Paul Pierce said it was blown out of proportion and wouldn't even be talking about it if it wasn't Kobe. Does that add some type of insight since Paul said it? No of course not.

Since you play every week I would assume I am older than you are so I will say I have probably coached, played and definitely watched more ball than you have, so your statement about your coaching and playing has no relevance in this discussion.

So now I am a liar? I don't mean what I say? Its pretty obvious your upset because they didn't call a foul and you think it could have cost the Lakers the game. You also seem to think it was dirty.

I said fouls happen a lot that aren't called, especially at the end of games. I referenced a Celtic non call at the end of game that cost us a game. I probably said I didn't think it was dirty, but I guess you think you have proof of it or something because Mark Jackson said so.

If you don't think your looking at it from a Laker point of view, you are pretty naive. Hence the purple colored glasses.

I would like to see this rule #1 you are referring to since I don't read the rule book very often.

tjmakz wrote:Tardust,

Please post the video of this non-call you keep mentioning about the Celtics.

I am not going to look for it because its not all that important to me to prove it to you. I really could care less whether anyone else thinks its a foul or not. The bottom line is the refs missed a foul big time, and I would say it 99.9% cost us the game. Everyone Celtic fan knows what I am referring to. Of course it wasn't put all over ESPN like the Kobe play. No one was hurt. I do remember Pierce saying it got a busted lip on the play.

I just decided to give you another "opinion".

Celtics coach Doc Rivers said he will send a video of the play to the NBA office for review. He believes Pierce was fouled, and even if he wasn’t, Rondo was standing directly in front of official Marc Davis signaling for a timeout.

“Of course he was fouled, there’s no doubt about that,” Rivers said. “And I also thought, if you watched it, Rondo absolutely called a timeout. It’s clear. He was literally an inch away from Marc Davis’s face and did it twice and then you could see Sean Corbin’s hand go up for a jump ball.

“It was clear, in my opinion, he was fouled, No. 1, and No. 2, we got the timeout and it wasn’t called.

“If you watch it, [Davis] couldn’t see the play because Rondo was in his face. Maybe he was looking around. Maybe that happened, honestly, because their job is to look at the play.”

Asked whether it was the 7-foot Noah or the 6-foot-8-inch Butler who tied up Pierce, Rivers said, “I know Butler tied him up and the film shows that. And then Noah reaches in afterwards, and what they were saying was they didn’t call that one they called [Noah’s]. And I said, ‘If that’s true, then he was fouled five times.’

“It’s was absolutely Butler, in my opinion.”

The Celtics have had trouble with Davis over the past few years. He was the official who ejected Rondo for making contact during Game 1 of the first-round playoff series against the Hawks last spring.

Rivers said the Celtics cannot ask the league not to assign Davis to their games.

“You can request, but it ain’t gonna happen,” Rivers said. “I think, knowing commissioner [David] Stern, you’ll get him the next game.

To use one of your similar type quotes, "are you guys even aware of the history the Celtics have with referee Davis?"

TJ, feel free to google it if you want. Really doesn't mean much any more other than we would be ahead of two other teams in the standings if it was called properly.

Time for me to move on from the Dahntay Jones/Kobe discussion. In my opinion, we beat that horse enough and there's not much to add.

Last night was a big win for the Lakers at Indiana with getting just about nothing from Kobe in 12 minutes. The Lakers bench came up big last night. Jamison, Blake and Nash were all looking to be scorers while Kobe was watching the game. Previously, some have blasted the Lakers for the Meeks and Jamison signings, but they have had pretty good years, especially when you factor in how little money they are making.

Since the all-star break the Lakers are 10-3, Dwight has had at least 12 rebs in all 13 games and he seems to be focused on playing hard and not complaining. Last night I think D'Antoni made a point to Dwight when he played Dwight the whole second half even when he picked up his 4th foul 4 1/2 minutes into the 3rd quarter.

There are rumors that Gasol could be back as early as tomorrow. D'Antoni said Gasol would start at some point. Maybe after 2 or 3 games Gasol will be back in the starting line up.

The Lakers could give a 1, 2 or 3 seed a run for their money if they make the playoffs. Whether they finish 6th, 7th or 8th, as long as they don't face OKC in round 1, I think they will have a chance to win that series.

With the Lakers a season high 6 games over .500 and Pau Gasol playing like Pau from a few years ago, Kobe goes down with a probable achilles tendon tear. Kobe has had a remarkable year despite the challenges and disappointments the Lakers have had as a team and an organization.

I hope the Lakers can pull it together to get into the playoffs. If they get in, they face a probable sweep at the hands of a much faster, younger and healthy Thunder team.

The Kobe injury will lead to some interesting decisions this summer by the Lakers. Since the Lakers have little roster flexibility this summer and aren't looking like championship contenders next season, do they amnesty Kobe, if it is looking like he will be out well into next season? By doing so, they would extinguish almost all of their luxury tax concerns for next season.

It's tough to see Kobe go down when he has put everything he has into keeping this team afloat, including playing almost every minute of every game recently.

Do you think if Doc or Pop were Kobe's coach and they were in complete desperation mode his minutes would be any different? Achilles injuries are freak injuries. They could happen 5 minutes into a game in November or 45 minutes into a game in April.

Wait a minute, TJ. Amnesty Kobe? So Mark Cuban was right?!! (JK)

dbrown4 wrote:Wait a minute, TJ. Amnesty Kobe? So Mark Cuban was right?!! (JK)

Maybe Cuban will be right, but for the wrong reason...

It looks like I will be wrong when I said a week ago that I felt that LA had a better chance to not make the playoffs. They have had a nice run over the last 40 games.

They obviously won't make any noise in the playoffs but they have salvaged the season from a complete freefall which is how their season was headed.

From a post by bobheckler on January 30.

bobheckler wrote:Some pundits (and take that with a tablespoon of salt) say that you need 48 wins to make the playoffs in the west. Personally, that sounds a little steep for me, but let's say you need 45 wins. The Lakers are 20-25. That means they would need another 25 wins. With only 37 games left (20+25=45; 82-45=37), that would mean they would have to go 25-12 (.675) the rest of this season, averaging slightly better than 2 out of every 3. Doable, especially if they are healthy and playing well, but tough. And that's just to qualify. If there is another team with 45 wins they'd have to own the tie-breakers against that team too, otherwise they'd need 46 wins to advance (requiring 26-11, .702) and if the #8 team has 46 wins instead of 45 then the hill gets correspondingly steeper, etc. That's why I said it's doable but losing streaks, even small ones, can't be allowed without a monster winning streak right on its tail (a 2 game winning streak would need a 4 game winning streak, a 3 game losing streak needing a 6 game winning streak). The Lakers don't and can't know what the teams in front of them will do the rest of this season, so they have to play like it's the worst possible scenario and hope they get lucky. If the pundits are right and you need 48 wins, then the Lakers would need to go 28-9 (.757) and own the tiebreaker to boot. Going .757 would be the equivalent of a 62 win season. If they pulled that off they would deserve to win the Championship, because that would be a historic rally.

Bob had it right. It indeed took 44 wins for the Lakers to get into the playoffs (Utah finished 43-39), and LA did indeed go 25-12 since January 29 to finish at 45-37.

I did a query on basketball-reference.com to sort teams by the number of wins in the second half of the season (games 42-82, http://bkref.com/tiny/PJNM8). The Lakers are tied for fourth in the league with 28 wins (a 28-13 record over that span), so they did have a very good second half of the season.

A lot of things came together for the Lakers to turn it around. Dwight's health gradually improved, Jodie Meeks started to contribute, and as strange as it sounds, Steve Blake was a key player for them. An absolute must was D'Antoni modifying the offense to accommodate the roster in general and Pau in particular. After all his injury problems and system problems, they've finally arrived at a point that Pau can be comfortable and productive. That's at the top the list of plus factors for them, along with Kobe's will to win. This might be Kobe's finest season.

It's probably a moot point, however, with Kobe out. Winning 2-3 games against San Antonio would be pretty good. Winning the series would be a huge upset at this point.

Unfortunately, another observation from the list is how unbelievably good Miami has been. They have far and away the best record in the second half -- 38-3. That is remarkable. And scary.