The Lakers' Season after Starting 1-4

that 4th Magic was getting anything they wanted, where were the defensive reputations of Howard, Mettasshole and Kobe? 3 defensive all NBA types got killed inside, outside, toasted all over the floor.....I put this more on D'Antoni who has never had any defensive acumen than on Gasol. 40 points at home is telling, telling how bad the coaching is cause the personnel cannot be that bad.

" D'Antoni said. " We're slow right now.It's just athletically, we're struggling."

I am not sure how this is going to change for them without some type of trade. They are a lot like we have been lately, not enough athletes to stay with the younger more energetic teams. With their big lineup it is going to be hard for them to stick with faster, younger teams anyway. Slow down and control the paint is their ticket to winning and that is not Mike D's style. Should be interesting out west.

Cow, Heckler - such good writing guys. Keep it up...

steve3344 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:anyone see the Laker game? so now they're 8-9, Dwight Howards defense has never been so inconsequential, saw terrible pick and roll defense all game. D'Antoni proving his rep as a bad defensive coach is very deserving, so many holes on defensive end, back end, perimeter.....I don't see this getting better, they're defense gonna only get worse when Nash gets back.

Gasol has to be playing hurt. Reports were that he had tendinitis in both knees. He can't be healthy and playing this badly unless he's lost all motivation for whatever reason. He's now gone six straight games without scoring more than 13 points or having a single double-digit game in rebounds, averaging 9 points, 7.7 rebounds and only shooting 36% in that span. Can't believe he could be losing it this quickly at 32 years old but, at some point, your knees just can't take it anymore. And you never know what that's gonna be. Look at Brandon Roy.

What ever degree of tendonitis Pau has in his knees, it is nothing compared to what Brandon Roy had/has.
When Roy retired last year the doctors recommended that he not play anymore so he can have a normal life with his knees.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:anyone see the Laker game? so now they're 8-9, Dwight Howards defense has never been so inconsequential, saw terrible pick and roll defense all game. D'Antoni proving his rep as a bad defensive coach is very deserving, so many holes on defensive end, back end, perimeter.....I don't see this getting better, they're defense gonna only get worse when Nash gets back.

Why didn't you post this after Dwight's 28 pt, 20 reb, 3 block game against Denver?
D'Antoni has coached 7 games for the Lakers.
Darius Morris has done a terrible job of getting keeping the opposing pg out of the lane.
The Lakers will give up more points under D'Antoni and they will score more points.
With Nash, they should score plenty of points.

if you saw tonights game can you explain why no semblence at all of defense?

The defense in the 4th quarter was terrible plus Orlando was hitting the bottom of the net on almost every shot they took.

I wonder why it is that Bob Heckler is the only one that will talk about the Lakers after wins but everyone wants to chime in after losses?

tardust wrote:
" D'Antoni said. " We're slow right now.It's just athletically, we're struggling."

I am not sure how this is going to change for them without some type of trade. They are a lot like we have been lately, not enough athletes to stay with the younger more energetic teams. With their big lineup it is going to be hard for them to stick with faster, younger teams anyway. Slow down and control the paint is their ticket to winning and that is not Mike D's style. Should be interesting out west.

tardust,

When the dissing of Phil Jackson and the announcement of the hiring of Antoni (no "D"), I just shook my head. I didn't get how the hiring of a coach whose professional resume is all about non-stop track meets would be the right coach for this Laker team, a team with 4 starters over 32, a soon-to-be 39 year old point guard and declining athleticism as we saw in the playoffs last year. This team was built for Phil's style, not Mike's.

For 2 decades the Boston Celtics wandered in the desert, like the Israelites of old. Some of this was bad luck (Reggie Lewis and Len Bias) but over that amount of time, practically and realistically, was due to bad ownership. The mug shots of Paul Gaston and John Y Brown are hanging prominently Celtics fans' Rogue Gallery. They are the ones who drive salary dumps and hiring decisions. John Y Brown orchestrated the trade for Bob McAdoo (who Red hated) and had to sell the team because he pissed Red off so much he almost left for the Knicks (wow, could you imagine if that happened?!). That's the good news. The bad news was that he sold it to Paul Gaston. He hired ML Carr as the GM. Carr fired Chris Ford and, with no coaching experience, became the head coach himself, and ownership let him. After a disaster of a tenure as coach, he stepped aside for Rick Pitino. Talk about going from the frying pan into the fire. It was only after Rick Pitino resigned that the title "Team President" was returned to Red. In 2003 Paul Gaston sold to Wyc's group, who hired Danny almost immediately. Danny hired Doc and the rest, as they say, is history.

I think the Lakers might be heading into a similar storm in ownership. If there is one delicate subject that recurs when I talk to my Laker fan friends it is the one of ownership. Jerry Buss is a shrewd, even brilliant, self-made man who is revered by Laker fans much the same way Ronald Reagan is in Orange County. He might not have the basketball acumen of Red, but he is comparable in his ability to manipulate trades and other teams to his benefit like Red could. His son, Dim Buss, is not a chip off the old block, he's barely a splinter. He has been given the reins of the franchise (his father is almost 79 years old) and has shoved his sister out of the way. He has dominated Mitch Kupchak (a superior GM). He is, it appears, an egomaniac.

His treatment of Phil Jackson was brusque and dictatorial. Phil, a 10-time championship coach, was expected to kiss his ring and when he didn't drop to one knee immediately, was dismissed with a sniff, a sneer and a wave. "We are not pleased. You may leave Our presence". His treatment of Phil's #1 assistant coach, Brian Shaw, was the same. Anybody in the Lakers organization who raises his head up will get Whack-a-Moled by autocrat and petty satrap Dim Buss.

I realize the Lakers could get it together, win the championship, and make me eat crow, but between his pole-axing of Mike Brown 5 games into the season, his circus act of a hiring process and his final hiring choice doesn't make me worried about getting feathers stuck between my teeth anytime soon.


bob


.

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:anyone see the Laker game? so now they're 8-9, Dwight Howards defense has never been so inconsequential, saw terrible pick and roll defense all game. D'Antoni proving his rep as a bad defensive coach is very deserving, so many holes on defensive end, back end, perimeter.....I don't see this getting better, they're defense gonna only get worse when Nash gets back.

Why didn't you post this after Dwight's 28 pt, 20 reb, 3 block game against Denver?
D'Antoni has coached 7 games for the Lakers.
Darius Morris has done a terrible job of getting keeping the opposing pg out of the lane.
The Lakers will give up more points under D'Antoni and they will score more points.
With Nash, they should score plenty of points.

if you saw tonights game can you explain why no semblence at all of defense?

The defense in the 4th quarter was terrible plus Orlando was hitting the bottom of the net on almost every shot they took.

I wonder why it is that Bob Heckler is the only one that will talk about the Lakers after wins but everyone wants to chime in after losses?

Because most people on this forum, predictably, detest the Lakers and are delighted whenever they lose. In case you haven't noticed, this is a Celtics chat board. Come on. You really had to ask that question? We like you but you are in enemy territory as far as basketball allegiance goes.

steve3344 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:anyone see the Laker game? so now they're 8-9, Dwight Howards defense has never been so inconsequential, saw terrible pick and roll defense all game. D'Antoni proving his rep as a bad defensive coach is very deserving, so many holes on defensive end, back end, perimeter.....I don't see this getting better, they're defense gonna only get worse when Nash gets back.

Why didn't you post this after Dwight's 28 pt, 20 reb, 3 block game against Denver?
D'Antoni has coached 7 games for the Lakers.
Darius Morris has done a terrible job of getting keeping the opposing pg out of the lane.
The Lakers will give up more points under D'Antoni and they will score more points.
With Nash, they should score plenty of points.

if you saw tonights game can you explain why no semblence at all of defense?

The defense in the 4th quarter was terrible plus Orlando was hitting the bottom of the net on almost every shot they took.

I wonder why it is that Bob Heckler is the only one that will talk about the Lakers after wins but everyone wants to chime in after losses?

Because most people on this forum, predictably, detest the Lakers and are delighted whenever they lose. In case you haven't noticed, this is a Celtics chat board. Come on. You really had to ask that question? We like you but you are in enemy territory as far as basketball allegiance goes.

steve,

What you said is fine and I understand that.
Isn't there an area a step closer to the middle ground when it comes to the Lakers?
Does it have to be that they are ignored when playing well and before the game is over in which they are playing poorly, they get bashed and predictions are made about their demise?
As has been stated so many times, November and December games have little relevance to how a team is playing in March-June.

tjmakz wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:anyone see the Laker game? so now they're 8-9, Dwight Howards defense has never been so inconsequential, saw terrible pick and roll defense all game. D'Antoni proving his rep as a bad defensive coach is very deserving, so many holes on defensive end, back end, perimeter.....I don't see this getting better, they're defense gonna only get worse when Nash gets back.

Why didn't you post this after Dwight's 28 pt, 20 reb, 3 block game against Denver?
D'Antoni has coached 7 games for the Lakers.
Darius Morris has done a terrible job of getting keeping the opposing pg out of the lane.
The Lakers will give up more points under D'Antoni and they will score more points.
With Nash, they should score plenty of points.

if you saw tonights game can you explain why no semblence at all of defense?

The defense in the 4th quarter was terrible plus Orlando was hitting the bottom of the net on almost every shot they took.

I wonder why it is that Bob Heckler is the only one that will talk about the Lakers after wins but everyone wants to chime in after losses?

Because most people on this forum, predictably, detest the Lakers and are delighted whenever they lose. In case you haven't noticed, this is a Celtics chat board. Come on. You really had to ask that question? We like you but you are in enemy territory as far as basketball allegiance goes.

steve,

What you said is fine and I understand that.
Isn't there an area a step closer to the middle ground when it comes to the Lakers?
Does it have to be that they are ignored when playing well and before the game is over in which they are playing poorly, they get bashed and predictions are made about their demise?
As has been stated so many times, November and December games have little relevance to how a team is playing in March-June.

Nope. No middle ground here when it comes to the Lakers. Not even one step closer to the middle. There's just too much animosity for that franchise (for VERY many reasons, too many to begin to document here) and that is just the way it is and always will be on a Celtics chat board. But we do like you. As for your team? They can't fall far enough or fast enough. Or more embarrassingly, like last night. Case closed. Have a wonderful day.

bob,

The Lakers wanted to move in a different direction from Phil after they were swept by Dallas. Could they have handled the Phil situation much better a few weeks ago? Yes, they could have. Ultimately, I believe they have the coach they want.

It seems like no team wants to have anything to do with the triangle offense or the coaches that worked under Phil. Here is a brief summary of Phil's main coaches and where they are now.

Brian Shaw - assistant coach with Indiana. Rumors are that teams don't want Brian because they are not interested in triangle.

Kurt Rambis - tried to install the triangle with Minnesota and bombed. Was fired after 2 years. Not coaching at all.

Jim Cleamons - former NBA head coach, let go when Phil was let go and now coaching in China.

Frank Hamblen - contract not renewed when Phil let go. No longer coaching.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakers-magic-20121203,0,6016737.story

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-bolch-lakers-20121203,0,7790817.story

http://www.dailynews.com/lakers/ci_22112416/orlando-113-lakers-103-magic-make-l-disappear

Kobe's advice to Gasol: "Put your big boy pants on. Just adjust," he said. "You can't whine about it. I'm 34 years old. I'm running screen-and-rolls out there. Steve [Nash] is out and my [tail] is running up and down the court more than I have my entire career. You have to adjust to it. I stay after practice and work on my ball-handling, my screen and roll."

And now the Lakers play 7 of their next 8 games on the road...

Here is where Steve Nash will make the Lakers look dramatically different:

In the 7 games in which D'Antoni has been coaching the Lakers, in 48 mpg, Morris and Duhon are averaging 8.9 ppg, 5.6 apg while shooting 37%. Besides Nash's own personal numbers which will far surpass those listed above, he will make the offense much easier for his teammates. The Lakers have lost many close games. I doubt they are nearly that close if Nash was the pg.

Hi,
Strangely enough, I'm with TJ. I don't get it why so many people are obsessed with Lakers. Their rise or fall will affect Celtics only in 2 games out of 82. The probability of them meeting in playoffs is even less.
I'll stick with Bobh theory that current LAL look like the Celtics in the 90's

AK

tjmakz wrote:bob,

The Lakers wanted to move in a different direction from Phil after they were swept by Dallas. Could they have handled the Phil situation much better a few weeks ago? Yes, they could have. Ultimately, I believe they have the coach they want.

It seems like no team wants to have anything to do with the triangle offense or the coaches that worked under Phil. Here is a brief summary of Phil's main coaches and where they are now.

Brian Shaw - assistant coach with Indiana. Rumors are that teams don't want Brian because they are not interested in triangle.

Kurt Rambis - tried to install the triangle with Minnesota and bombed. Was fired after 2 years. Not coaching at all.

Jim Cleamons - former NBA head coach, let go when Phil was let go and now coaching in China.

Frank Hamblen - contract not renewed when Phil let go. No longer coaching.

TJ,

Yeah, there seems to be a coordinated attack on the Triangle. I don't get it, personally. Nothing succeeds like success.


bob


.

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
Strangely enough, I'm with TJ. I don't get it why so many people are obsessed with Lakers. Their rise or fall will affect Celtics only in 2 games out of 82. The probability of them meeting in playoffs is even less.
I'll stick with Bobh theory that current LAL look like the Celtics in the 90's

AK

After Reggie died, what talent did Boston have besides Pierce in the 1990's?
This Lakers team looks very little like the Celtics of the 90's.

bobheckler wrote:

tjmakz wrote:bob,

The Lakers wanted to move in a different direction from Phil after they were swept by Dallas. Could they have handled the Phil situation much better a few weeks ago? Yes, they could have. Ultimately, I believe they have the coach they want.

It seems like no team wants to have anything to do with the triangle offense or the coaches that worked under Phil. Here is a brief summary of Phil's main coaches and where they are now.

Brian Shaw - assistant coach with Indiana. Rumors are that teams don't want Brian because they are not interested in triangle.

Kurt Rambis - tried to install the triangle with Minnesota and bombed. Was fired after 2 years. Not coaching at all.

Jim Cleamons - former NBA head coach, let go when Phil was let go and now coaching in China.

Frank Hamblen - contract not renewed when Phil let go. No longer coaching.

TJ,

Yeah, there seems to be a coordinated attack on the Triangle. I don't get it, personally. Nothing succeeds like success.


bob


.

It's outdated. It's great if you have a Shaq as your center and a Kobe who could bail out a team with 2 or 3 on the shot clock.

steve3344 wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakers-magic-20121203,0,6016737.story

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-bolch-lakers-20121203,0,7790817.story

http://www.dailynews.com/lakers/ci_22112416/orlando-113-lakers-103-magic-make-l-disappear

Kobe's advice to Gasol: "Put your big boy pants on. Just adjust," he said. "You can't whine about it. I'm 34 years old. I'm running screen-and-rolls out there. Steve [Nash] is out and my [tail] is running up and down the court more than I have my entire career. You have to adjust to it. I stay after practice and work on my ball-handling, my screen and roll."

And now the Lakers play 7 of their next 8 games on the road...

Unfortunately, we don't know why Pau is struggling.
I bet all of these that I list below are factors, but what is the real reason?
Whatever the reason is, LA has to make Pau work so they can look to trade him in a couple of weeks while he has decent trade value.

1) Shot selection: Pau now takes 3x more shots from 15-23 feet then he did 2 years ago.
2) His knees.
3) His age.
4) His conditioning.
5) His lack of confidence.
6) His role in the offense.

TJ,
I'm not talking about players, I'm talking about front office and coaches. I thought it was what Bobh meant...

AK

sinus007 wrote:TJ,
I'm not talking about players, I'm talking about front office and coaches. I thought it was what Bobh meant...

AK

sinus,

Yes, that was his main point. Sorry I mis-understood.

Holy Crapoly!

I just looked at Howard is shooting 46.5% from the line this year! He shot 9-21 last night (43%).

That makes Rondo, who is shooting a still execrable 61%, look like Calvin Murphy.

Next stop, going down, is Ben Wallace. Happily for Howard and Laker fans, he still has to break through the .400 level before he descends into those stygian depths of free throw shooting hell.

Still, to be fair, Howard is at least playing and doing some things like fg% and rebounding, very well. That's more than Philly fans can say about Bynum.


bob


.

Here's a shocking stat: Orlando (coming in as the third worst offensive team in the NBA) scored 35 points in the last 6:47 of the game. THIRTY-FIVE points in barely more than half a quarter. It was LA 84, Orlando 78 when Afflalo hit a 3-pointer at the 6:47 mark. Final was 113-103 Orlando.

http://www.nba.com/games/20121202/ORLLAL/gameinfo.html?ls=iref:nbahpgt[0021200244]

I don't think I've ever seen 35 points scored that fast by anyone except maybe those Paul Westhead's "run and gun" Nuggets teams of the early 90's that completely ignored defense and routinely scored 140-150 points a game. And obviously their opponents too since they lost most of them.

steve3344 wrote:Here's a shocking stat: Orlando (coming in as the third worst offensive team in the NBA) scored 35 points in the last 6:47 of the game. THIRTY-FIVE points in barely more than half a quarter. It was LA 84, Orlando 78 when Afflalo hit a 3-pointer at the 6:47 mark. Final was 113-103 Orlando.

http://www.nba.com/games/20121202/ORLLAL/gameinfo.html?ls=iref:nbahpgt[0021200244]

I don't think I've ever seen 35 points scored that fast by anyone except maybe those Paul Westhead's "run and gun" Nuggets teams of the early 90's that completely ignored defense and routinely scored 140-150 points a game. And obviously their opponents too since they lost most of them.

steve,

The rumors are that Dimbo fired Mike Brown because the defense Brown promised he'd bring to the Lakers didn't materialize.

And then he hired Antoni, and then this happens.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy too.


bob


.

Looks like Nash is out for another 10 days to 2 weeks. Report says he can't run (yet) wonder just what kind of shape he can possibly be in when he does return??

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/21244883/steve-nash-hopes-to-be-back-in-10-days-to-two-weeks

Obviously they need him but just not sure what he can and will bring to the table....and when.

They need a Nash of 3-4 years ago not the 39 year old version.

beat

bobheckler wrote:Holy Crapoly!

I just looked at Howard is shooting 46.5% from the line this year! He shot 9-21 last night (43%).

That makes Rondo, who is shooting a still execrable 61%, look like Calvin Murphy.

Next stop, going down, is Ben Wallace. Happily for Howard and Laker fans, he still has to break through the .400 level before he descends into those stygian depths of free throw shooting hell.

Still, to be fair, Howard is at least playing and doing some things like fg% and rebounding, very well. That's more than Philly fans can say about Bynum.


bob


.

bob,

Yes, Howard has been terrible at the FT line. What's interesting is that almost every one of his misses has hit the back rim. Very few are left or right.
I guess that's a good thing...

Talking about free throws shooters, have you seen Andris Biedrins of GS shoot free throws?
In the last 4 years, he has played over 3000 minutes and only taken 71 free throws. Of those 71, he has only made 17 or less then 24%.
Howard still has some work to do getting into shape, but where would the Lakers be if Bynum was still on the team?
I guess the could get some solace in knowing that their 2013 1st round pick that will be going to Phoenix is lottery protected...

Kobe on Dwight's foul shooting woes. From the LA Daily news article I posted a link to:


Howard is shooting 46.5 percent from the line this season (87 of 187).

"He should look at it as an opportunity because you know once he conquers the ability to make free throws, the sky is the absolute limit for him," said Kobe Bryant, the Lakers' leader.


Once he conquers the ability to make free throws? How's he gonna do that? He's obviously been shooting FT's without success since he was a teenager. If Kobe thinks it's possible to "conquer" an inability to shoot more than basically 50% from the line when your whole life you can't do that, he's dreaming. Just ask Wilt. Or Chris Dudley. Or Ben Wallace. Or even Rajon Rondo who's in his 7th season of shooting them in the low 60's without change, no matter how many he shoots in practice. Rondo's BEST season shooting FT's was his first (64.7%), oddly enough. For his career he is 61.9% and this year he's at 61.3%. Some things never change. Like Dwight's FT shooting. But Kobe says "the sky is the absolute limit for him" in that area. Funny stuff.

I'll never be a singer no matter how hard I try to conquer my inability to do it well.