POST GAME BROOKLYN

Went to watch a wrestling match.........and a basketball game broke out!
This team is all discombobulated!!!!! It's getting sickening to watch the drop-off!!!!
Celtics are not close to turning the page and we could be in for a long..long winter.

We cannot use the same excuse that it's just an off game...we have used that too often this year. Time for Danny to reevaluate the team he built.

Hey why not try MELO...cannot hurt at this juncture.......let's see what the kids got!!!!!!!

Out Rebounded again 50/40 - Offensive Rebounds Lost 17/8

Pierce stunk upped the floor with 5 TO's - 6/11 Free throws - 0/3 From 3pt



NEXT GAME FRIDAY - HOME - 7:30PM - PORTLAND - CSNE/NBA LEAGUE PASS

POST GAME RECAP

WEEI 850 AM

FAST BREAK: RAJON RONDO EJECTED, STREAK ENDS AND CELTICS LOSE 11.28.12 at 10:09 pm ET
By Ben Rohrbach


The Bruins aren’t playing, so somebody had to fight at TD Garden.

Rajon Rondo shoved Kris Humphries into the stands, resulting in dueling ejections, and Kevin Garnett manhandled Gerald Wallace, drawing double technicals (Wallace’s second, earning himself an ejection). More on that in a minute, but the Celtics and Nets also played basketball.

Andray Blatche (13 rebounds) and Jerry Stackhouse each scored 17 points, and the Nets owned the Celtics, 95-83. Meanwhile, Rondo departed with just three assists in 18 minutes, effectively ending his 37-game double-digit assist streak and leaving him tied with John Stockton for the second-longest such stretch in NBA history.

If you’re looking for positives, Kevin Garnett (16 points, 10 rebounds) recorded his second straight double-double.

WHAT WENT WRONG

Everything: Everything.

Streak stopped: Where to begin? Starting with a brawl seems appropriate. With 29.5 second remaining in the first half, Humphries gave Garnett a shoulder shove. Rondo came to his defense, thrusting Humphries into the first row. Behind them, Garnett and Wallace got into it. Punches appeared to be thrown. Rondo, Humphries and Wallace all received ejections. Garnett got a technical. And suspensions will follow. Just like that, the streak ended. Rondo returned to the locker room with only three assists, seven shy of a 38th consecutive game with 10 or more assists.

BlatcheHouse: One’s 38 years old and the other was benched by the Wizards for the final month of last season for lack of conditioning. Of course, we’re talking about Stackhouse and Blatche, who somehow combined for 16 points and 10 rebounds before halftime. Before the break, the former’s shooting (3-4 3P) and the latter’s offensive rebounding (5) helped the Nets establish a lead as large as 21.

99 problems: We could be talking about any number of issues here. Brooklyn’s 3-point shooting and offensive rebounding or Jeff Green‘s apparent knee injury, Courtney Lee landing hard on his elbow and Chris Wilcox‘s illness, to name five. But with Jay-Z in attendance, the Celtics had 99 problems, and turnovers most definitely was one. They committed nine in the second quarter alone, including five in a span of seven possessions.

WHAT WENT RIGHT

Nothing: Nothing.

Mad KG: Apparently, after the first-half skirmish, Garnett still had some fight left in him. He finished with a double-double on 7-of-12 shooting and sparked a too-little-too-late comeback that cut the Nets lead to single digits and kept Celtics fans in their seats for most of the fourth quarter.

Keep shooting: If you remove Brooklyn’s 10-of-24 shooting (41.7 3P%) from beyond the arc — and that’s a big if, considering everyone from Joe Johnson (18 points) to Stackhouse shot wide-open triples all night — the Nets shot just 23-of-58 (39.7 2P%). In related news, statistics can be deceiving.

Captain goes down with the ship: He didn’t shoot particularly well (4-13 FG), but Paul Pierce (14 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists) finished one rebound and three assists shy of a triple-double. See previous related news.
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ESPNBOSTON.COM

Rapid Reaction: Nets 95, Celtics 83

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com

BOSTON -- Rapid reaction after the Brooklyn Nets defeated the Boston Celtics 95-83 on Wednesday evening at TD Garden:

THE NITTY GRITTY
In a game marred by Rajon Rondo's second-quarter ejection after a brawl that also saw Kris Humphries and Gerald Wallace booted, the Celtics endured their second loss of the month to Atlantic Division-leading Brooklyn. Old friend Joe Johnson scored a team-high 18 points (on 6 of 14 shooting) over 40 minutes for the Nets, while Andray Blatche (13 rebounds) and Jerry Stackhouse (5 of 6 beyond the arc) each chipped in 17 points off the bench. Kevin Garnett registered a double-double (16 points, 10 rebounds) while Brandon Bass added 16 points for the Celtics. Paul Pierce labored with 14 points on 4 of 13 shooting (30.8 percent) and Boston emerged battered and bruised in a rough-and-tumble game.

FIGHT NIGHT AT THE GARDEN: RONDO'S STREAK ENDS
Rondo was ejected after striking Humphries in the chest after Humphries committed a hard foul on Garnett in the final seconds of the first half. Humphries fouled Garnett on the baseline with 29.5 seconds to play in the second quarter, and Garnett spilled to the floor. Rondo reacted instantly with a two-handed shove, then followed up as he and Humphries spilled into the crowd below the basket. Rondo's ejection ended his double-digit assist streak at 37 games, leaving him in a tie for the second longest streak in NBA history.

A ROUGH NIGHT ALL AROUND
If Rondo's ejection wasn't enough, Chris Wilcox departed in the first half due to illness and did not return. Jeff Green sprained his right knee late in the third quarter, but returned to the game in the final quarter. Meanwhile, Courtney Lee hit the ground hard in the fourth frame and appeared to have a painful left-arm stinger. He returned to the floor after a timeout.

TURNING POINT
The Nets put together a little 11-0 run spanning into the second quarter, scoring the final six points of the first frame before a Stackhouse 3-pointer and two free throws from Johnson pushed the lead 33-20 with 10:00 minutes to play in the first half. That lead would jump up to as much as 21 and just when Boston was starting to make a little charge, Rondo got ejected and the wheels came off the game. The Celtics twice got the lead to single digits in the fourth quarter, but never lower than 9.

DOC TAGGED WITH EARLY TECH
Setting the tone for the night, Celtics coach Doc Rivers earned his first technical foul of the 2012-13 season a mere 4:35 into Wednesday's game. Barking at the referees after Boston gave up a dunk to Blatche, Rivers got T'd up by referee Kane Fitzgerald and was infuriated at the penalty.

WHAT IT MEANS
Well, that escalated quickly. Rondo's ejection will overshadow the game and it's likely the league will come down hard on him for his physical nature in confronting Humphries. A multiple-game suspension almost certainly awaits, which puts the 8-7 Celtics in a tough spot without a true backup point guard on the roster. The Celtics do have an open roster spot, one they wanted to preserve for later in the season. The severity of his penalty could force Boston's hand a bit, at least until Avery Bradley is healthy enough to return to action (projected at mid-December). Below all the clutter, the Celtics got handled by the upstart Nets yet again.

112288

The Celtics looked horrible.

We need another big. 3 days off and this is the best that we can do. RR losing his cool again...a lot of no shows in this game...

Dboss

Dboss:

Could the Celtics have gotten Blatche in the off season instead of opting for Jason Collins?

MD!

PS-Looks like the "Winter of My Discontent" is upon me

MD

Funny you should mention that. I thought about the Celtics going after him in the off season.

Maybe when AB gets back the pick and role defense will improve thus reducing the rotations and their impact on rebounding positioning.

Dboss

I guess we will have to give it to January/February but if we continue playing like this.............Danny may want to rethink the patchwork approach to rebuilding. This team is not jelling......no chemisrty...........they all look good on paper.....but it isn't happening.

KG will not stick around to see his 3 year contract end. He will leave via a trade or retire. He is busting his hump every game and has little support from other players that need to help out. Bottom line...KG cannot do it himself...It's not so much age as it is the other parts to the team not working as a unit.

Pierce looked old in the last game especially getting his jock pulled by Joe Johnson and getting burned by him. He does not have the lift in his legs any more that made him famous for his penetrating drives to the basket. he just kind of hangs on the outside popping 3 pt shots.

Very discouraging to say the least.

112288

AB is a nice player...one of a kind.....but it will take him 10-15 games to get his game back......if he has no set backs.

But the pick and roll defense is just one part of the problem....perimeter defense is the other, and how about the bench?

The bench has been the biggest let down all year. The Jet is ok but no consistent sniper from deep........Lee has shown some nice defense and hustle but his shot is not there for long stretches of a game.

So Bradley comes back and improves the pick and roll defense.......Who's going to show the bench how to guard the pick and roll...they have not done it all year!

112288

Gents. Please try not to all jump ship at once......it will throw off the balance and make the rest of us capsize. Form an orderly line and kindly walk the plank at a steady pace.

For the rest of us......clearly the Nets are playing at a different level and the Celtics did not meet their intensity on the court.

As for the fight. That was DIRECTLY attributable to the refs allowing the Nets to play dirty and get away with it...and it finally bubbled over. They gave the Nets 17 FT to 5 for the Celtics in the first half...and that clown Kane Fitzgerald gave Doc a T for nothing....which further curtailed his ability to advocate for his team. It is not surprise this thing boiled over.

Reggie Evans is a real asshole. He pushes and shoves and pulls and tugs all night, and as soon as you meet him with any kind of resistance...he flops and gets the call. He will be the first player this season suspended for a game for flopping. He is a strong man and a hustler, but the NBA needs to make an example of him.

Kris Humphries has one skill - being a punk. He should have been called for 3 or 4 fouls in the first half and should have been assessed a flagrant foul for throwing down KG. Once again the three blind mice missed it all...and then wonder why the players take matters into their own hands.

As for the rest...not much to say.

Even with all the rough play the Celtics had their chances at the start of the 4th quarter.

The sky isnt falling and it isnt time to bring up Feb Melo. Just another game along the way to learning who this team is - and a mean nothing loss in November.

NEXT.

MK,

What if there are not enough life boats available?

You are right.......Humphries is a punk although I wised Danny went after him last year.

I just hope that Doc does not lose the team and they quite on him!

112288

It is too early man.....no one is going to quit on Doc - not as long as Danny is running things. They will ship out disgruntled players before they move Doc.

Patience.

Not much to like about this one.

With 3 days off, Doc spent his time practicing pick-and-roll defense. Last night, he trapped the ball on top a lot. That cost us as they rotated the ball well. Any shot they missed they were in excellent position to get the offensive rebound. Even when they weren't in excellent position, they just flat out out-worked us. If I can keep my breakfast down doing it, I might go to the play-by-play and see how many offensive boards we surrendered off of missed free throws. There is no way, NO way, you should lose the ball on a missed free throw.

1. Magic's streak lives and Stockton is still in 2nd place. That's because Rondo still has some growing up to do. He was getting frustrated because players weren't hitting their shots and he was trying to score more himself. One attempt was a stupid, off-balance fade-away on the baseline which I don't think I've ever seen him take or make. The attack on Kris Humphries was something you'd expect to see from a club bouncer, not a club leader.

2. Paul Pierce couldn't throw the ball in the Atlantic from the edge of the pier if you pushed him in with it. 4-13fgs, 6-11fts, 5 TOs. Pierce actually hit his last 5ftas, but there were only 2-3 minutes left in the game and the deficit was double-digits. Think of that. That means that he was 1-5 before that. There was a stretch, in the 3rd quarter, where he was involved in almost every sequence. He turned over the ball multiple times, missed a few shots, missed almost every free throw and just was a momentum killer in general. Everytime the ball was in his hands, it ended up going the other way. He was working hard, it just wasn't working. It didn't help that the refs didn't call any contact inside. His attempts to offset his miserable jumpshooting with some drives were unrewarded.

3. Our bench scored 18 points. Theirs scored 52. In fact, they had three bench players in double figures but only one of their starters, Joe Johnson, was in double digits (one reason for that is because two of their starters got tossed with Rondo). Blatche attacked the hoop and 38-year old Jerry Stackhouse took over Derek Fisher's job of "I'll be standing in the corner in case you need a 3". He can't run anymore, can't jump, but he can still play horse. He was the beneficiary of a lot of those trap-breaking passes. Barbosa was falling for some easy head fakes, Sully was getting pushed around by Reggie Evans (the first time I've EVER seen Sully pushed around) and Jeff Green turned back into his usual pumpkin. A brief scare as Green got his knee side-swiped on a pick and went to the locker room. Not that he played any better when he came back. Wilcox was sick and played limited minutes. The only bench player that looked decent was Lee. Once again, his stats don't show it, but he was working hard. This morning a report was put out by ESPN-Boston that says that Doc is "disappointed" in Jeff Green so far. Is water wet? http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4699477/rivers-disappointed-in-green-so-far

4. The referreeing sucked. Lee got called for a foul when, I think it was Lopez, did what's known as a "rip move". That's where you swing the ball up into the defender's arms to create a foul. That move has been explicitly defined by the NBA this year as an offensive foul. Apparently, the league forgot to tell Kane Fitzgerald this before they sent him out to ref games. Fitzgerald also called a T on Doc. Doc was yelling at Lee because of something Williams did well, and Fitzgerald thought he was yelling it at him and tee Doc up. And I thought Violet Palmer sucked. The final free throw tally makes it look close but, during the period when the game was being contested and there was enough time on the clock left to rally and win, the calls were all going for Brooklyn. I started a tread about Joey Crawford, but I don't usually complain about the officiating, but last night it was ridiculous. They were bullying us, fine, but when we tried to step up we got whistled.

5. Joe Johnson likes shooting from the right side. He did it a lot last night. We never, to my memory, forced him left. That's bad coaching. No, I'm not calling for Doc's head (not even a few hairs off it), but he didn't have a good night last night either. His trapping didn't work, his matchups didn't work, his strategy didn't work.

6. Humphries will be suspended, but how do you let a guy whose principal talent is to be a provocateur get into your head? Rondo and Wilkens might get suspended for multiple games, as the 3rd/4th men in. The people who should get suspended are the refs. They let this game get out of hand early. Evans throwing Sully around, Blatche thowing elbows. If you don't think the other team will try to assert themselves back then you're an idiot and last night we had The 3 Stooges. Shame on 18-year veteran ref Jim Capers Jr. for not taking control and telling both coaches to settle their players down BEFORE things got out of hand. Thanks to Berlin, I was able to get a local link with Mike and Tommy (before that I was exercising my french. "Le Doonk-e!", "un fo offenseev" (NOT correct french spelling). Ever hear someone "tsk, tsk, tsk" when a bad play is made? Find a french game feed) and they showed the guy who works for the league office whose job is to grade the officials. I hope he likes writing, because he's got a lot to say.

7. We shot better than them, 43% vs 40%. We had 17 TOs and they had 14, not that much of a difference. Where they killed us was on 3pters and the offensive boards. They were 10-24 from 3, with Methuselah Stackhouse going 5-6 (in fact, he only took 6fga all game. Anything else would have required him to move and he can't anymore). We did not have good spacing, their 3pt shooters had way too much daylight and we could close them out. They had 50 rebounds total, 17 of them offensive. It was ugly, truly ugly. When Jerry Stackhouse gets an offensive rebound you know you're on the Road to Perdition. Horrible effort by the Celtics. Horrible. Three Nets players (Lopez, Blatche and Evans) had 33 of those boards and 13 of the total 17 offensive boards. Blatche had 8 offensive boards by himself. Put a freaking body on him!

8. I think I've noticed a pattern. It looks like Bass's jumpshots are all hitting the back of the rim. Hitting the front of the rim consistently is usually a sign of fatigue, but the back of the rim? Bass and Garnett were the only players who shot well and Bass started off cold again. As usual, though, when his shot doesn't drop he finds some other way to help the team and it worked out for him.

We're up, we're down, we don't know what we are. Apparently, the 3 day rest didn't help us much.

Our bench was supposed to be the bright spot this year, the guys that were going to let our aging veterans rest and be fresh. They're too inconsistent, ESPECIALLY Jeff Green. Whoever he is, he needs to be it. Right now, it's trick-or-treat with him. I don't know the story with his knee, but if it's sore maybe that'd be a good excuse to bring Joseph down from Maine. Maybe the competition will light a fire under Green's ass.

Doc's right. We're a soft team now. Time to get the wagons in a circle, develop some Ubuntu and view everybody not in green as the enemy that cannot be negotiated with, only destroyed. Are we men, or mice? Right now, the cheese isn't safe.


bob


.

Read my post I just posted about Big Al Jefferson wanting to come back to Boston. He is in his last year with Utah....perhaps he would come a little cheaper in player compensation then the "Polish Hammer" in terms of leverage with the other team. Big Al is gone after this year.....The Hammer has another year to go.
112288

You don't make a decision on a player based on one game. If indeed Andray Blatche was ever on the Celtics' radar, they made the correct decision by not acquiring him. There's no denying that he has tons of potential, but that's voided by the deficit between his ears. He has periodic good games but consistently underachieves. He mopes and pouts when things don't go his way. He fancies himself an outside shooter, taking way too many long twos. He was a posterboy for the Washington Wizard knucklehead brigade. Doc and the Celtic culture can work wonders and Zach Randolph is a lone beacon proving that talented knuckleheads are not always permanently irredeemable, but be glad that Blatche isn't on the Celtics. I'll take Brandon Bass any day.

Humphries' foul on KG wasn't that hard and certainly didn't justify Rondo losing his cool. It was a foul, and not even a flagrant one, and Rondo was probably reacting to more than just that individual play. But Rondo did his team no favors, not in this game or in the next few games, some of which Rondo is likely to be missing due to suspension. To me, it looked more like a petty response to frustration rather than a principled tough stand, and the message to other teams could just as easily be that you can get the Celtics' best player out of the game by losing his cool rather than you don't want to mess with the Celtics because they won't stand for it.

Rondo's suspension could be lengthened because he's made himself into a repeat offender. He was suspended once during the 2012 regular season after tossing the ball at a referee and once during the playoffs after bumping a referee. This would be the third suspension in 2012, all due to his inability to control his frustration, all of them ignoring the fact that he is far too valuable to the team to allow that to happen.

Doc's postgame comments are obviously a challenge to his team. You don't call your team "soft" lightly. But he is correct that they need to get tougher defensively and on the boards. They are not big, so they have to make up for it with quickness, skill, intelligence, and determination. One of the knocks on Jeff Green has been underperforming on the boards and in the paint; he apparently showed in the preseason that he can do better, but he hasn't yet transferred that to the regular season. Sullinger is only a rookie, but he's one source of toughness the Celtics need. So is Wilcox. But perhaps the biggest challenge comes with two veterans, KG and Pierce. I'm not about to call KG soft, but he is the leader in setting the tone, and is he as consistently determined as the team needs him to be? Pierce gets good numbers, but he paces himself so much that he looks old sometimes. Getting those two to expend the extra energy Doc is looking for will be key, even if that means fewer minutes for them.

Despite saying all that, I am firmly on mrkleen's side that it is not panic time. Doc is using this as a teaching moment, not a call for a firing squad. We were already in wait-and-see mode with the team, and now we have a particular point of emphasis to watch for over the coming weeks. Sullinger is just a rookie, so let's give him a chance to grow into his role. Green is coming off a significant aortic procedure and missing an entire year of playing ball. Bradley isn't back yet, and he can make a big difference for this team, including in its toughness. I trust Doc to guide it all with a steady hand, including calling out his team when it's needed.

One thing you can say is that's not dull.

Adrian W of Yahoo Sports is citing "league sources" are thinking of a 2-3 game suspension for Rondo, leaning towards 3 because it spilled into the stands.

bob


.

Could not disagree more with your summation of the fight Outside.

-Humphries CLEARLY not only fouled KG, but pushed him again after the whistle was blown - across the neck and face. Maybe you should go watch it again. Skip up to :45 in and watch.



The fact that the same blind mice who had given the Nets a 17 to 5 FT advantage missed the flagrant foul call by no means indicates it was not a hard foul - any more than OJ walking the streets means he is an innocent man.

As for the "repeat offender" comment - not sure what the two incidents have to do with each other. A fight to defend your teammate - no matter how misguided that attempt may have been, is in no way related to bumping a ref. That would be a real "reach" by the NBA. Then again, David Stern specializes in corruption, so you never know.

The rest of your post is spot on IMO.

bobheckler wrote:Adrian W of Yahoo Sports is citing "league sources" are thinking of a 2-3 game suspension for Rondo, leaning towards 3 because it spilled into the stands.

I just listened to a segment on the melee from Mike and Mike on ESPN radio, and they also pointed out the fact that it spilled into the stands. After the true melee at the Palace in Auburn Hills in 2004, the league made it clear that it will come down especially hard on anything involving fans. Three games seems like a reasonable expectation.

IT WAS A FLAGRANT FOUL EITHER 1 OR 2. WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOOTING AND GETTING THE BALL BACK.

112288

NO FANS WERE INVOLVED.....NO PLAYER WENT AFTER A FAN...SO I DO NOT SEE THAT BEING USED AS PART OF THE RATIONAL IN THE SUSPENSION PROCESS.

ALSO THE SEATS BEHIND THE RIM ARE TOO CLOSE AS IT IS TO THE COURT. PLAYERS ALWAYS SEEM TO ENTER THE SEATING AREA EVEN ON PLAYS.

HE WILL GET 3 GAMES....THEY WANT TO SELL TICKETS.........NO SUPER STAR ON THE COURT = SMALLER FAN TURNOUT.

112288

I tend to agree with Outside on this one. The foul was a foul and it was called.............however the things that led up to that made it become more than just a common foul.

KG fell as a slip or as a result of the foul to some extent, I do not look at the fact he fell as anything...........but obviously Rondo saw him fall and took exception. And we all saw what happened next.

To win our best have to play and to play we need them on the court not in suits on the sideline. Rondo lost his cool he could have gotten into Humphries face but short of contact. He didn't.

And as Bob pointed out, the fact this happened at all was laid out in the inept reffing of the prior 18 or so minutes. Still we needed to keep our wits about us and we didn't.

And 112288 I do agree fans on all sides of the court are way to close. Should be at least 5-6 feet of clear space around the floor minus the basket supports.

beat

Humphries foul was a borderline Flagrant 1, it wasn't close to a Flagrant 2. Rudy Gay got pulled down by the neck last night when up by 20 with 3 minutes left and Qunicy Acy received just a Flagrant 1.

If Rondo didn't completely over-react and just went over and helped KG up, nobody would be talking about that foul or Kris Humphries today. That was a pretty common hard foul in the NBA.

There are so many issues that each issue interacts with the other issues and exacerbate them. Right now, the game-by-game fate of the Celtics depends almost always (exception: Thunder) on the other team. Matchups, athleticism, vulnerabilities, toughness, explosiveness, shooting accuracy, etc.

In short, the immediate game-by-game fate of the Celtics is not currently within their control. They have to work constantly on their many problems until they are to call on an asset (perimeter shooting, transition game, suffocating defense, whatever) to differentiate themselves from opponents. They they need to be able to call on two assets. Then three assets. Etc. Complicating the progress is the large rotation. And the hidden danger is how much time KG will spend on the floor while all of this is taking place.

It's very tempting to say that it's a marathon, not a spring, and then to go succumb to the temptation to micro-analyze afresh after the very next game. After all, without all the analysis, this message board might very well not exist. So it's understandable and actually appreciated.

But, on my part, I feel myself withdrawing into the equivalent of a mental storm shelter into which, since 1950, I've often retreated and waited patiently for the storm to pass. That's when I learned that there's nothing as welcome as the last month in an NBA regular season.

I'm utterly sick of advising patience. So I looked into the thesaurus and plucked a new word:

Forbearance

Oh, and by the way, see me in April!

Sam

sam wrote:There are so many issues that each issue interacts with the other issues and exacerbate them. Right now, the game-by-game fate of the Celtics depends almost always (exception: Thunder) on the other team. Matchups, athleticism, vulnerabilities, toughness, explosiveness, shooting accuracy, etc.

In short, the immediate game-by-game fate of the Celtics is not currently within their control. They have to work constantly on their many problems until they are to call on an asset (perimeter shooting, transition game, suffocating defense, whatever) to differentiate themselves from opponents. They they need to be able to call on two assets. Then three assets. Etc. Complicating the progress is the large rotation. And the hidden danger is how much time KG will spend on the floor while all of this is taking place.

It's very tempting to say that it's a marathon, not a spring, and then to go succumb to the temptation to micro-analyze afresh after the very next game. After all, without all the analysis, this message board might very well not exist. So it's understandable and actually appreciated.

But, on my part, I feel myself withdrawing into the equivalent of a mental storm shelter into which, since 1950, I've often retreated and waited patiently for the storm to pass. That's when I learned that there's nothing as welcome as the last month in an NBA regular season.

I'm utterly sick of advising patience. So I looked into the thesaurus and plucked a new word:

Forbearance

Oh, and by the way, see me in April!

Sam

sam,

As I said, I'm not calling for Doc's head, nor am I calling for Rondo to be traded, nor am I rounding up a firing squad for Danny. On the other hand, the purpose of Post-Game Threads is to talk about THAT game and, unfortunately, THIS game was revolting. If all we do is wait until April, then this board will be a blogging desert until Spring.








bob


.

mrkleen09 wrote:Could not disagree more with your summation of the fight Outside.

-Humphries CLEARLY not only fouled KG, but pushed him again after the whistle was blown - across the neck and face. Maybe you should go watch it again. Skip up to :45 in and watch.

I've watched it multiple times, and that is a really tough angle to see where Humphries' hand lands on KG, but it looks to me more like the shoulder than anything. His hand winds up in KG's armpit. I see KG's head move, but I think that's a reaction to the shoulder blow rather than from a blow to the face. And I've seen many, many other plays I would characterize as hard fouls over this one. It was just a foul. Humphries didn't "load up" or swing down with his arm, and it involved his arm only -- there was no force added by Humphries running, like when Wade took out Collison in the playoffs, and he was completely upright and the rest of his body didn't even move, so it's not like he got additional force by putting his body into it. I'm not calling it a ticky-tack foul, but by NBA standards, it wasn't an especially hard foul. I understand that KG was in the air and that fouls on guys in the air carry additional potential for injury, but fouls like this occur in every NBA game. Until I see an angle that shows contact on KG's neck or face, I think the foul was to his shoulder only.

mrkleen09 wrote:The fact that the same blind mice who had given the Nets a 17 to 5 FT advantage missed the flagrant foul call by no means indicates it was not a hard foul - any more than OJ walking the streets means he is an innocent man.

I'm looking at this play only. I'm not adding in opinions about what the referees did the rest of the game. Even if they did a lousy job the rest of the game, that doesn't make this foul worse. This foul is what it is on its own.

mrkleen09 wrote:As for the "repeat offender" comment - not sure what the two incidents have to do with each other. A fight to defend your teammate - no matter how misguided that attempt may have been, is in no way related to bumping a ref. That would be a real "reach" by the NBA. Then again, David Stern specializes in corruption, so you never know.

I don't think any of the incidents have anything to do with one another other than the common denominator -- Rondo. It will be his third suspension in less than a year. It's not like the league keeps two suspension jars, one for incidents against referees and one for incidents against players. Are you seriously saying that a guy facing his third suspension in less than a year should expect the prior two to be disregarded when determining how many games to miss? How many suspensions does a guy have to have before you think it becomes an issue?

I don't know if it will ultimately make a difference -- I think the fact that Rondo started an incident that spilled into the stands is a more serious circumstance -- but it's not a factor in his favor. It's like Sheed and his technicals -- maybe some of them were unjustified and occurred because the refs were paying extra attention to him, but he brought that attention on himself. Rondo has put himself in the same type of situation, and he's going to have to stay clean for a long time before he's off the watch list.

Bob, I'm not knocking the post-game threads. I happen to feel they're the board's most important single feature, and the quality of comments is amazing.

When I say, "See me in April," it's quite obviously not some silly indication that I'm shutting down until then. But, even when contributing (I hope) to the forum at times like this, I keep the context of the greater journey in mind. One of the reasons why I post the cumulative season-to-date stats is to demonstrate that overall trends seldom shift suddenly. Neither does improvement in performance—at least not usually.

Amidst all the specific suggestions such as trades, rotation changes, etc., I'm seeing a lot of angst out there. We all looked forward to this season—perhaps more so than any in recent memory. We licked our chops about the advent of more speed and athleticism. We salivated at our depth that, among other things, would spell more rest for KG and Paul. We anticipated with glee the heights to which Rondo's leadership might take us.

But to a large extent, we ignored or downplayed one thing: The very number and magnitude of the resources added to the roster greatly increased the amount of time it would take for each resource to be able to contribute to the max while blending with the whole.

So my message to "See me in April" does not literally mean that you cannot see me until April. In a sense, I'm using myself as a metaphor for the Celtics and advising people (however they wish to express themselves in the meantime) that what really counts is how the whole thing turns out down the road.

I believe that if, you really think about it for a while, you'll realize that it's intended as a comforting reassurance that better times are coming— not a challenge of some kind or an announcement that I'm suspending my posting for a while.

So see me in April, and keep looking for the inevitable glimmers until then.

Sam

Outside wrote:
I've watched it multiple times, and that is a really tough angle to see where Humphries' hand lands on KG, but it looks to me more like the shoulder than anything.

Makes no difference where he hit him, the fact that he fouls KG with the body - the whistles blows - and THEN he delivers a blow to a player that is already off balance and falling. That was my point.

Outside wrote: Even if they did a lousy job the rest of the game, that doesn't make this foul worse. This foul is what it is on its own..

Everything has a context. The same foul that is called in November, is overlooked in June - and the same refs who gave NJ at 12 FT advantage in the first half, went in and looked at the stats at halftime - and TRIED TO EVEN IT UP in the second half. This happens every night in the NBA. Everyone watching the game saw NJ getting more and more chippy, with Evans pulling his BS flopping all over the court. We all saw the game starting to get out of hand, and this foul was the culmination. It was not a foul on its own....as clearly, teams dont brawl for no reason.

Outside wrote: Are you seriously saying that a guy facing his third suspension in less than a year should expect the prior two to be disregarded when determining how many games to miss? How many suspensions does a guy have to have before you think it becomes an issue?

So wait.....a foul is just a foul, and you dont care about what happened before - but a fight should be judged by everything that happened in the last year? Rondo and Humphries AND Wallace should get the same amount of games. Period

And I agree with Tommy. A guy who has my back like Rondo did - says a lot about his character and is the kind of guy I want to go to battle with. Last night was precipitated by a team full of punks who were allowed to play dirty for 19 minutes - and then to add insult to injury, allowed to throw down the Celtics best player.

Back in the Bird Days, that was the kind of dust up that happened 10 times a year...and would have found Humphries on the wrong end of a Greg Kite elbow in the face.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/sports/basketball/as-nets-rise-celtics-division-dominance-may-be-waning.html