Trade Rumors du Jour

Toronto gave up a guaranteed lottery pick for Lowry.
The pick they gave up has to be between #4-14.

They are not going to give him away or accept Terry or Bass in a trade.

I agree that if they make a trade it should be for a big man.
3 deep at center includes Collins and Wilcox?

There is no way I would include Jeff Green in ANY deal at this point. He has way too much upside.

bob,

Collins is an ok 3rd center.
Wilcox has played 3 minutes since before Christmas.

I'm not telling you anything you don't already know...

tjmakz wrote:Toronto gave up a guaranteed lottery pick for Lowry.
The pick they gave up has to be between #4-14.

They are not going to give him away or accept Terry or Bass in a trade.

I agree that if they make a trade it should be for a big man.
3 deep at center includes Collins and Wilcox?

I guess you need to explain this to me. The pick HAS to be in that range?

mrkleen09 wrote:There is no way I would include Jeff Green in ANY deal at this point. He has way too much upside.

I agree I wouldn't trade Green either. I don't think it has much to do with upside though. I think we have already seen the upside of Green. He is what he is. Never going to be a superstar or even a all star. I just hope he can get more consistent. Hope I am wrong though.

tardust wrote:

tjmakz wrote:Toronto gave up a guaranteed lottery pick for Lowry.
The pick they gave up has to be between #4-14.

They are not going to give him away or accept Terry or Bass in a trade.

I agree that if they make a trade it should be for a big man.
3 deep at center includes Collins and Wilcox?

I guess you need to explain this to me. The pick HAS to be in that range?

Yes, the Toronto pick that was traded to Houston for Lowry and then traded to OKC in the Harden trade is a top 3 protected, guaranteed lottery pick. If Toronto makes the playoffs this season, they would keep that pick, then OKC would get their 2014 1st round pick. If Toronto misses the playoffs this season and winds up with a top 3 pick, they again would keep the pick for this season.

Surely if OKC doesn't get the pick until next year it is not still guaranteed to be a lottery. Sure sounds like a dumb deal to me from the Raptors side.

tardust wrote:Surely if OKC doesn't get the pick until next year it is not still guaranteed to be a lottery. Sure sounds like a dumb deal to me from the Raptors side.

The pick will continue to be a top 3 protected lottery pick until OKC receives the lottery pick, whatever year that happens to be.
The Raptors felt Lowry was worth a lottery pick but not a top 3 pick.
It is highly doubtful Toronto will make the playoffs this season.
As of today, OKC would be picking 7th.
With some luck from the ping pong balls, Toronto could get a top 3 pick this summer.

tardust wrote:I agree I wouldn't trade Green either. I don't think it has much to do with upside though. I think we have already seen the upside of Green. He is what he is. Never going to be a superstar or even a all star. I just hope he can get more consistent. Hope I am wrong though.

I agree he will never be a superstar, nor will he ever really "replace" Paul Pierce. But I disagree that he cannot be an all star and a big part of the future on the Celtics. I think we have seen that with more playing time and a comfort level with his teammates, Green has shown plenty of flashes of brilliance. Once they are actually running plays for him, and he feels he can miss 4 or 5 shots and not get pulled from the game - I think you will see what he is all about. Remember it is still less than a year since his open heart surgery.

Here is hoping that we see Rondo - Lee - Green - Sully - Bradley and maybe Melo into the future.

FLASH FLASH FLASH
WBSTV in New York has just reported that the Boston Celtics will not make a trade to replace starting All Star point guard Rajon Rondo. Boston GM Danny Ainge has reported he has signed Bob Cousy to replace Rondo. He is also bringing Bill R as backup center and assistant coach, as well as Larry Legend to refresh Paul Pierces memory on how to execute end of game plays. Now this is a SHOCKER!

"Here is hoping that we see Rondo - Lee - Green - Sully - Bradley and maybe Melo into the future."
Agreed, Mrkleen. I think this should be our default option, as we already have these guys and they show promise. If there's a silver lining in Rondo's injury, it is that we can focus on the longer term now, not 2013. Doesn't mean we don't try to make the playoffs, fill the seats, make some noise, season the new guys. But without RR until next year, I hope we don't give away anything to shore up the near term. Hawk.

hawksnestbeach wrote:"Here is hoping that we see Rondo - Lee - Green - Sully - Bradley and maybe Melo into the future."
Agreed, Mrkleen. I think this should be our default option, as we already have these guys and they show promise. If there's a silver lining in Rondo's injury, it is that we can focus on the longer term now, not 2013. Doesn't mean we don't try to make the playoffs, fill the seats, make some noise, season the new guys. But without RR until next year, I hope we don't give away anything to shore up the near term. Hawk.

Totally agree. Fire sale is a term that should not be associated with this team.

Mrkleen,

I agree with you about Jeff Green. I believe all that lies between him and more consistent offensive output is for them to introduce some plays for him and not force most of his offense to come off the flow of the game.

As for his defense, even in the early part of the season, he demonstrated how he could use his athleticism to run down opponent breakaways and stuff the shots. Obviously, that's not all there is to defense, but I thought his total defensive job in the latest win was the most complete and effective I've seen on Lebutt from a Celtic in years (maybe ever).

Sam

mrkleen09 wrote:

tardust wrote:I agree I wouldn't trade Green either. I don't think it has much to do with upside though. I think we have already seen the upside of Green. He is what he is. Never going to be a superstar or even a all star. I just hope he can get more consistent. Hope I am wrong though.

I agree he will never be a superstar, nor will he ever really "replace" Paul Pierce. But I disagree that he cannot be an all star and a big part of the future on the Celtics. I think we have seen that with more playing time and a comfort level with his teammates, Green has shown plenty of flashes of brilliance. Once they are actually running plays for him, and he feels he can miss 4 or 5 shots and not get pulled from the game - I think you will see what he is all about. Remember it is still less than a year since his open heart surgery.

Here is hoping that we see Rondo - Lee - Green - Sully - Bradley and maybe Melo into the future.

I didn't say that he couldn't be a part of the future. Actually I said I hope we keep him. I would be very surprised if he was ever a all star though. Again I hope I am wrong. I don't agree with the one year since the heart surgery line though. I have had this same operation, have had knee and back surgery as well. Knee and back are both harder to recover from. Both of those linger on for years, where I don't even think about the open heart work any more. I too was able to do anything I wanted within 9 months. Of course it wasn't NBA basketball, but Jeff was 20 years younger than myself when he had it done. I doubt if he even thinks about it much any more.

So what do people thing of a trade of Bass and Wilcox for Gortat? For some reason, it appears Phoenix is making him available. I assume it relates to money and draft picks. They'd save $200,000 right off the top in the exchange and another $800,000 because this is Wilcox' contract's last year. So they'd save $1 million, and the Celtics could throw in a first-rounder. They'd get one guy who can play canter, and the only other legitimate (?)center on the Suns is Jermaine O'Neil—otherwise known as "Mr. I Hate Everything." And they'd get a serviceable, relatively young power forward who could at least represent future trade bait.

IF Phoenix would do it (and frankly, I have my doubts), would you surrender a first-round pick for Gortat? OF COURSE everyone would prefer a second-rounder or no draft pick at all. But I don't believe anything but a #1 would seal the deal, and I'm not even sure about that—unless Phoenix figures the Celtics will not drop well into the lottery.

According to Trade Machine, the deal works financially. I believe substituting Collins for Wilcox would also work, but I'd rather keep the less injured guy, and he's not a terrible short-term defensive help and a great foul machine (Hello Dwight).

It's a lot more difficult to conjecture about trades now because I don't want to give up any guards unless or until they bring in someone like Dooling or West. And, no, I don't believe Paul Pierce should be playing guard unless he can really overpower the opposition. Too slow to cover most SGs.

Sam

Sam,

I don't think Phoenix would have any interest in that trade for a few reasons. Just my opinion, of course.
1) Bass is really having a poor year. He is playing like a $2-3m player, not like a $6-7m player.
2) There are two years left on Bass' contract after this season.
3) One area Phoenix doesn't need help in is PF. Scola and Morris play PF and so does Beasley at times. Phoenix needs help at SG, SF and C.

With JON having a melt down last week, I can't see Phoenix trading Gortat unless they get back a servicable center (not Wilcox and probably not Collins).


I think Phoenix would listen if Boston offered Terry, Collins and Melo. Of course they would rather have Lee instead of Terry but I don't think Boston would go there.

Bass and Wilcox for Gortat?
Boston -- yes!
Phoenix -- huh?

Terry, Collins, and Melo for Gortat?
Boston -- yes!
Phonenix - meh.

Outside and TJ,

I notice that neither of you even referenced the first-rounder that I had included to sweeten the deal for Gortat. I'm glad you think the Celtics will finish so high that a pick this coming June would be of little value.

Allow me to focus specifically on the possibility of trading either

Bass and Wilcox and this season's first rounder or

Terry, Collins, Melo and this season's first-rounder

for Gortat. Whattaya think?

Sam

sam,

ive heard reports that this season's draft class wasnt supposed to be all that steller.. if thats the case then trading away the pick to improve ourselves here and now is certianly a good option.

Melo though, i'd kinda like to keep, more so than Bass or Wilcox the kid could end up being somebody, even a contander.

sam wrote:Outside and TJ,

I notice that neither of you even referenced the first-rounder that I had included to sweeten the deal for Gortat. I'm glad you think the Celtics will finish so high that a pick this coming June would be of little value.

Allow me to focus specifically on the possibility of trading either

Bass and Wilcox and this season's first rounder or

Terry, Collins, Melo and this season's first-rounder

for Gortat. Whattaya think?

Sam

Sorry Sam, that's my fault.
I didn't remember that you mentioned a 1st round pick in your second paragraph.
A 1st round pick can have considerable value especially since Boston is hovering around .500 and Rondo is out for the year.

Take two

Bass and Wilcox and this season's first rounder for Gortat
Boston - Yes!
Phoenix - Meh

Terry, Collins, Melo and this season's first-rounder for Gortat
Boston - Yes!
Phoenix - Meh

So not much changed other than that the draft pick makes the first option a little more palatable.

Bass's stock has fallen off dramatically. Maybe a change of location would do him good, but he's not an attractive chip considering his contract.

Wilcox is what he is at this point, and at age 30, he'd have limited appeal to a franchise that is in a multi-year rebuilding process.

Terry would have even less appeal for a team in rebuild mode. His appeal would be to a "win now" team.

I'm not sure what Collins's appeal would be other than to Igor in Young Frankenstein.

Melo at least has potential, and Phoenix could be patient enough to see that to fruition, but he's not a lock. Will he be at the DeAndre Jordan/Nikola Vucevic end of the scale, or more like Hasheem Thabeet? He's pretty much the same as the draft pick at this point -- an uncertain asset.

In both scenarios, Gortat is the only known asset of good value, so both trades are weighted considerably in Boston's favor.

I don't believe the Suns' main goal would be to get players who can help them now as much as to prepare for the future. I'm wondering whether the Suns would bite if they would be shaving a million bucks and getting a pretty decent future prospect plus a potentially good draft pick plus a serviceable PF who, despite what some would call a millstone contract, could be trade bait.

Who knows? If the Celtics can keep playing as they have in the last two games, they might be ill-advised to make a trade anyway, as even guys like Bass and Terry might look more valuable. I wish I thought Wilcox could maintain his current output level long-term.

Sam