POST GAME MEMPHIS

Wallace (knee) leaves game vs. Grizzlies

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com

Boston Celtics swingman Gerald Wallace bruised his right knee in the third quarter of Monday's game against the Memphis Grizzlies and will not return.

Wallace had not attempted a field goal over 27:33, but had 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 turnovers and 2 steals. It was another quiet offensive night for Wallace, who attempted only one shot over 40 minutes during Boston's season opener last week in Toronto. Wallace has attempted only 16 shots in four games.

Wallace has started all four of Boston's games this season.
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Rapid Reaction: Grizzlies 95, Celtics 88

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com

Rapid reaction after the Memphis Grizzlies defeated the Boston Celtics 95-88 on Monday night at FedEx Forum:

THE NITTY GRITTY
Despite turning in maybe their best half of the season, the Celtics watched Memphis rally from six points down early in the third quarter to take as much as a nine-point lead with 16 ½ minutes to play. Boston could have folded, but just like the team's other three games this season, the Celtics rallied (and actually led by six with little more than seven minutes to play). Jerryd Bayless caught fire and scored all of his team-high 15 points in the fourth frame for Memphis. Jeff Green scored a game-high 22 points on 6-of-12 shooting (he was 9 of 12 at the free throw line) with five rebounds over 40:27. Jared Sullinger scored 16 points over 20:42 off the bench for Boston.

TURNING POINT
Bayless was unconscious in the fourth quarter, making his first six shots of the frame. That included a trio of shots to erase a six-point deficit. His 3-pointer with 4:19 to go put Memphis back out front and Boston didn't scored just two more points the rest of the game. The Grizzlies closed out the game on an 11-2 run.

LOOSE BALLS
Gerald Wallace bruised his right knee in the third quarter and did not return. He did not attempt a single shot over 27:33... Vitor Faverani grabbed a team-high six rebounds, but had just five points over 27:38 and was a team-worst minus-19 in plus/minus... Green's fourth quarter: 0-for-3 shooting (all 3-pointers), one rebound, one assists, one turnover. He was minus-15 over 9:30 overall... Courtney Lee deserves attention for putting up nine points, three rebounds, and two assists over 18:54. He was a team-best plus-17 overall... Keith Bogans, MarShon Brooks, Kris Humphries, and Phil Pressey were all healthy DNPs... Jordan Crawford was likewise fantastic, connecting on 4-of-7 shots for 12 points overall. He was called on at various times, including to help defray the point guard responsibilities with Avery Bradley.

WHAT IT MEANS
Boston falls to 0-4. It's another moral victory night after rallying back and surging ahead in the fourth quarter. Alas, coach Brad Stevens endured his fourth loss in four tries. This is the first time Boston has started the season 0-4 in the 1969-70 campaign. The Celtics will take Tuesday off coming off a back-to-back, then get a visit from the Utah Jazz on Wednesday. Another back-to-back looms to close this stretch of five games in five cities over seven days with Boston trekking to Orlando (Friday) and Miami (Saturday).

112288

Interesting not to see Humphries.  Look at it one of 3 reasons.........Hurt......Coaches dog house..........trade nearing ...............you pick'em.

112288

Anyone who has said (and this is many of the fools on talk radio in Boston) that the Celtics are tanking this season clearly isnt watching games. They are not a good team and they dont execute down the stretch - but they are TRYING HARD every night. No one is trying to lose on that team.

That said...moral victories dont count on the scoreboard - so 0-4 it is.

112288,

A possible 4th reason. He's not in the coach's doghouse, but he's just not fitting into the system Brad wants employ.

Sam

Hi,
Once again they were very close to a W but the lack of experience and chemistry did them in. And that was against a decent team.
I'd like to note a very good defense of BB and Vitor against Randolph and Gasol respectively.
Despite very good stats for JC, I can't understand why some people on CSNE trying to convince their audience that he can be a good PG? This despite all evidence to the contrary.
Also, about the game itself. The officiating was just horrible - reminded me those sub refs in NFL the other season.

AK

Very entertaining game and we did play hard, a few players had a coming out party, Sully carried us for a stretch, he looked great. AB hit some nice shots, but is not a point guard. My question is with 2-3 minutes to go why did we go with 2 undersized PF's out there, we needed Sully and Vitor at the 4 and 5, that would have enabled Sully to go right at Randolph who he had been beating the whole night. Sully doesn't have length to tango with Gasol, bad move, hes not a focking center....good if were tanking. 0-4 good, were getting closer.

I came away from this game with mixed feelings.  Sure, nobody likes 4-game losing streaks, but I saw some things that might be glimmers if they continue.  The one thing I saw that might be a glimmer is that they fought and scrapped and fought the whole game.  As Wallace said, "you can't teach effort", and we seem to be putting that out.  If that continues long enough for us to develop some chemistry and settle into Stevens' system, that sustained effort will propel us forward.  The hard part, of course, will be to not lose heart before then.


1.  Speaking of heart, I thought Jeff Green got a new one?  He scored 22 points in the first half, looking great, and then didn't score any points, not one, in the 2nd half.  I honestly don't know what to say that hasn't already been said a thousand times already.  He knows what things he has to do differently (rebound more, show up every minute of every game and be consistent), he says all the right things but keeps doing the same old things.

2.  We only had 16 points in the 4th quarter, continuing our 4th quarter swoon.  Too much passing just to pass and not enough passing with a purpose.  Nobody making cuts.  Screens would be set to get the ball to someone out on the perimeter but none to break someone free to go to the rim.

3.  The trio of Gasol, Allen and Bayless killed us in the 2nd half.  Gasol came out of halftime and just kept dropping in mid-range shots (some without even jumping).  Vitor wasn't learning and going out to him.  Tony Allen was a tornado on defense.  If he wasn't forcing Crawford into off-balance 3 pt attempts he was playing ferocious deny defense on the bigger Jeff Green.  He was completely disruptive.  Bayless had all of his 15 points of the Griz' total 29 points in the 4th quarter.  Probably 12 of them were on the same play.  Gasol would set a screen left elbow extended, Bayless would come around the screen and, since the Celtic guarding Gasol didn't step out, Bayless had a wide open mid-range jumper.  I find this disturbing.  Why didn't someone on the bench tell them to challenge the ball?  If not Stevens, why not veteran coach Ron Adams, or veteran player Walter McCarty?  They kept running the same damn play, again and again and again, and we changed nothing.  NOT a glimmer.  For someone who is supposed to be detail oriented, that's was a pretty big detail to overlook.

3.  Bass and Olynyk were a combined 4-19 and yet we still shot 47% as a team.  I suppose that's something.  Bradley was 6-12, and that's great.  Bradley also had 3 assists and only 1 TO.  If he can keep that up, not that it's particularly impressive but at least it isn't killing us, I'll be happy.  Unfortunately, Bayless lit him up in return, but as I said that was because nobody was helping him out on the picks.  Sully was a nice 7-11, hitting outside and inside, including 2-3 from 3.  That's not where I want him shooting from, but we need the points and I'll take them where I can get them.  He's scrapping too.

4.  I'm struggling with Mr. Herky-Jerky.  Sure, he's putting up nice numbers:  12 points on 4-7 and 2-4 from 3, 3 steals and 4 assists and only 1 TO, but some of his shots were ill-advised, he made some really bad decisions on offense and disappeared as much as appeared on defense.  Sam is thinking I'm being too harsh on him, but I'm not seeing what I want to see.  I was told he was a good passer and decent floor general.  I'm not seeing that.  I'm seeing a lot of one-on-one schoolyard, 25' 3ptrs not out of the flow and questionable judgment.  On one sequence, he dribbled into traffic along the baseline (KJ thought he was out of bounds), made a horrible pass to Lee who lost it in traffic and then got bailed out by Leuer fouling Bradley.  9 times out of 10, that'd have been a Crawford turnover.  If this is a year of looking for glimmers, of looking at the Big Picture, of building for the future, then Crawford is one Darwinian knuckle-dragger to the right of Marshon Brooks.  Why no Pressey?

5.  Courtney Lee played another good game, he's starting to feel his rhythm again.  Another scrapper.

6.  What the hell did Hump say to get him benched?  Yeah, I know that Vitor has stepped up.  I know that Bass is doing a good job and so is Sully.  I know we need to play Olynyk just to scrape some of the newbie-ness off him, but damn!  I'll bet this is the only time in his career he has two consecutive Coaches - DNP.  If he's just not getting with the Stevens program, then he should be benched.  Fortunately, if there's one position we're TOO deep at it's 4, so we can afford to sit him.  Still, like the benching of Pressey, it is odd.

7.  Every single one of our starters had a negative +/- and every single one of theirs had a positive +/-.  Normally I'm not a fan of this stat, since the game is about units and not individuals, but starters are, by definition, a unit and our primary unit got outplayed.  You have to have one hellaciously good bench to offset a starting unit that averaged a -14.

And yet it was close.  Is that a glimmer?

Inexperience, lack of chemistry, unbalanced roster and a new system is making it very difficult for us to finish strong.  We fight and fight but come up short because, in the end, we're not ready for prime time yet.  

We need a point guard.  If Pressey won't be allowed to take off his warmups then Danny needs to pull a trigger or two and get one.  We have too many players that need help creating their shot and not enough players that will do that for them.

A little home cooking coming up.  Given the nice intensity we've been playing with, I hope we can lose Stevens' virginity to the equally pathetic Utah Jazz.

If not, then this season will be dog-years long.

bob


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Jay O @MrTrpleDouble10
Last time the C's started out 0-5, they dropped an OT heartbreaker to the St. Louis Bombers in 1946: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/194611140STB.html …
5:19 AM - 5 Nov 2013



bob



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Bob, I don't necessarily think you're being too harsh on Crawford because I understand your reasoning.  I just use a different reasoning.  You're not seeing wht you want to see, and you are defining what that is.  I'm focusing on how, with his skill set and instincts, can help this team at a position where there is a severe need.

• What I'm seeing is someone who, along with occasional bad decisions, probably puts his teammates in position to succeed better than any other Celtic guard has done this season.

• What I'm seeing is someone who is leading the team in assists per 36 minutes (although just a hair more than MarShon Brooks in scant minutes).

• What I'm seeing is a guard who is 6' 4," which is nearly half a foot taller PG than Pressey—a stat I believe is one of Brad's reasons for not playing Pressey..  (Although, in truth, I can't understand not giving Pressey a chance despite his diminutive height.)

• What I'm seeing is the only player on the team who, when the team has inexplicably frittered away 23 seconds on the shot clock, can bail them out with a monster three.

• What I'm seeing is someone who's shooting .444 from three-point land, leading the team by a significant margin despite the length of some of his three-point shots.

• What I'm seeing is a player who, by dint of his three-point prowess, arguably helps spread the floor more than any other Celtic.

• What I'm seeing is a guy who, despite occasional defensive lapses, is precisely tied with Avery Bradley in number of steals (1.9) per 36 minutes.  (Lee's a bit higher, and Wallace leaves all three of them in the dust.)

• What I'm seeing is one of all-too-few Celtics who are truly moving both themselves and the ball in the halfcourt.

• What I'm seeing is a guard who may occasionally misfire on an interior pass but is, nonetheless, attempting interior passes and completing most of them_sometimes in brilliant fashion.

The Glimmer Thread is not intended simply as a fun pursuit.  I started it to encourage people to focus on spending at least as much effort on accentuating the positive as on bemoaning the negative.  It's often easier to build quickly on the positives than to turn around severely bad habits.  And what I'm seeing from Jordan Crawford are lots of positive on which to build.  I'm pretty sure that Tommy Heinsohn, for one, agrees with me.

I've never implied that I believe Crawford is any kind of long-term solution at PG.  But now is now, and the roster is currently stuck in a mire without a legitimate, experienced point guard.  In addition to hoping they win a few games, I'm hoping the young players can evolve as quickly as possible.  Of the available alternatives (very possibly including Pressey), I believe Jordan Crawford can contribute toward that latter end more substantively than any other Celtic guard except Rondo.

Sam

Zach Randolph has some advice for KO:


http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/randolph-gives-advice-olynyk



bob


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Stevens not disappointed in a lot of things:

http://www.csnne.com/video_content_type/stevens-not-disappointed-lot-things



bob



.

sam wrote:Of the available alternatives (very possibly including Pressey), I believe Jordan Crawford can contribute toward that latter end more substantively than any other Celtic guard except Rondo.

Sam

And THIS was what I was trying to say all summer, while people were quick to write Crawford off.  This team is in no position to start casting aside positive contributors simply because you dont like that player's style.

I think the person who is going through the most growing pains is Coach Stevens.  He is not calling a very good game (so to speak) and is as much to blame for Jeff Green scoring 16 in the first half and only 6 in the second as Green is. Down the stretch, Stevens needs to move some players around and get Green the space that he needs to take his man.  You cant do that with him positioned in the far corner.  

As for all the talk about Humphries.  He is not a long term part of this team - and I have no problem with the Celtics keeping Sully / Vitor / Kelly in the game as a trial by fire.  It will only help them out in the long run.

Bottom line; if stop leading the league in turnovers we'll likely add a W or two.

They played really hard last night. I think this was their best game overall. It was never out of reach until the very end. Memphis is a legit playoff team, and Boston competed with them the whole night.

Statistically, Green played well. And I don't think all of his struggles are entirely his fault. In fact, I'd attribute a lot of it to an overall bad offense.

For instance, guys were standing around, and when someone would come to the arc to set the pick, it was in a bad position some of the time. Quite frequently, Green was given the ball too late in the shot clock to even have a decent chance. So to be fair, it wasn't ALL his fault. I have no real complaints about Green in this game, considering he led all scorers on either team.

Sully had a nice game. He hit some nice shots and was physical as usual.

Jordan Crawford's game was night and day. He'd go from making spectacular plays to creating disasters. But for the most part, I'd say he did well.

Bradley and Lee infused some good offense, and their defense was stifling. However, they aren't PGs, and they made some untimely turnovers, especially Bradley when he tries to make backwards passes. Turnovers, again, is what did them in. You can't win with 20+ TOs every night.

While I'm on the subject of turnovers, Tony Allen is very sneaky. He picked a few pockets of unsuspecting offensive players.

Vitor had a nice first half. So far, I've been impressed and I really think he has a high ceiling. I notice he isn't playing much in the 2nd, though.

Olynyk's struggles continued. Memphis was easily able to bully him on both ends of the floor. To his credit, he did make some solid defensive plays, but even with those, he was bailed out mostly by the offensive player's miscue. He has a ways to go.

Wallace was hurt as we all know. Let's face it, he's 31, and this is certainly around the time when injuries/wear and tear will take their toll. Why is he playing so many minutes per game? He plays more than Jeff despite being the oldest guy on the team. Baffling.

Humphries' physical style would have been helpful in this game. Instead, we were subjected to watching Kelly getting brutalized by the Grizzlies' vaunted frontline.

Brooks and Bogans were absent from play. No surprise there.

Pressey.... WHY is he not getting any minutes? Why has Brad gone away from him? This kid had success during preseason. When he played, Boston appeared to have a somewhat coherent offense. At this point, what do you have to lose? A game? They've been doing that already.



KJ

mrkleen09 wrote:

sam wrote:Of the available alternatives (very possibly including Pressey), I believe Jordan Crawford can contribute toward that latter end more substantively than any other Celtic guard except Rondo.

Sam

And THIS was what I was trying to say all summer, while people were quick to write Crawford off.  This team is in no position to start casting aside positive contributors simply because you dont like that player's style.

I think the person who is going through the most growing pains is Coach Stevens.  He is not calling a very good game (so to speak) and is as much to blame for Jeff Green scoring 16 in the first half and only 6 in the second as Green is.  Down the stretch, Stevens needs to move some players around and get Green the space that he needs to take his man.  You cant do that with him positioned in the far corner.  

Crawford has shown himself to be both a distributor and disruptor on offense. When it comes to trying to run the offense, he's more competent than Bradley and Lee. Before the season started, I saw no reason to be overly optimistic about him. So far, I think he's done a solid job, but he's also had some terrible moments, too. The problem still remains that he isn't a PG. There is no getting around it. Late in games, I don't see Crawford having the ability to give the team enough of a push over the edge to get the win. He may have a nice first half, but in the second, other teams will lock down and he'll get exposed, just as Bradley has.

Pressey should be getting more minutes, plain and simple. He's the only PG.




KJ

If AB is playing poorly (or has an injured finger) and you need a second guy to help run the point - you have two choices. A rookie who hasnt proven he can hit the side of a barn - and Crawford. In the long run, I would like to see Pressey get more minutes, but down the stretch - until Rondo is back, AB and Crawford are your best options.

In addition, I havent seen very much credit being given to the guy for at least trying his best to fill a role. He isnt a PG, he never was a PG - but he has stepped forward to offer to do whatever it takes the help the team. Crawford could have just as easily said play me at SG or trade me, but he didnt. I give the guy credit for giving it his all. That is all you can ask from a player.

mrkleen09 wrote:If AB is playing poorly (or has an injured finger) and you need a second guy to help run the point - you have two choices.  A rookie who hasnt proven he can hit the side of a barn - and Crawford.  In the long run, I would like to see Pressey get more minutes, but down the stretch - until Rondo is back, AB and Crawford are your best options.

In addition, I havent seen very much credit being given to the guy for at least trying his best to fill a role.  He isnt a PG, he never was a PG - but he has stepped forward to offer to do whatever it takes the help the team.  Crawford could have just as easily said play me at SG or trade me, but he didnt.  I give the guy credit for giving it his all.  That is all you can ask from a player.

To be fair, the "better" choice hasn't exactly equated to wins yet.

They have nothing to lose by giving the rookie a shot. He's the only one that can run an offense. I've seen it with my own eyes. Crawford can do it in spurts, but when a team puts their nose to the grind stone, Crawford is as susceptible to mistakes as Bradley.

Crawford has been getting credit from my observations. On the Game On threads, everyone has remarked about the great plays he has made. But let's be realistic here, he's made some bad ones as well and they are worth noting. It's not fair for one (not necessarily anyone here) to constantly bash on Bradley's turnovers and forget that Crawford is making some, too.

I have been giving credit to him, and I've even said that I hope he proves me wrong. In some ways, he has, but in others, he hasn't. He has in fact done a decent job so far. But Crawford, like Bradley, is not a PG and this team will continue to struggle. I don't think he's the best guy for that job.

Let's see what the rook can do.


KJ

So we have a guy that you and many others wanted to ship out over the summer...and now you blaming the team losses on him?

Crawford is not a star, he never has been and never will be. He isnt the reason they are losing, and likely wont be the reason they win. He is a role player - who is filling his role better than most on this roster.

Some of you guys have your minds made up about Jordan Crawford and refuse to give the kid the credit he deserves. I am done banging my head against the wall on this subject.

You win as a team and you lose as a team, which is what I said the other night. Not one guy is single-handedly responsible for the team losing. I never have once said Crawford lost the game for them and I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find anything that proves otherwise.

I think you're mischaracterizing what's that's being said if you think I and others haven't given him credit. Can someone please show me where I have blamed Crawford solely for the losses? This is a legitimate request.


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:Can someone please show me where I have blamed Crawford solely for the losses? This is a legitimate request.
KJ

I claimed that Crawford was the best option at back up PG at present....and your replied with the following

k_j_88 wrote:To be fair, the "better" choice hasn't exactly equated to wins yet.
KJ

Not sure how else to read it other than you saying - well Crawford playing back up PG hasnt turned into wins.

mrkleen,

I also did mention that he is more suited to run the offense than Bradley, whom is getting most of the time at PG. And in my first post on this thread included saying that Crawford did well for the most part against Memphis.

The second quote is a bit of a reach to say I'm blaming Crawford... He's playing better than last season, IMO. I just think that they need a more pure PG. Crawford can still be a scorer, he's proven that.

I want to see what Pressey can do. His skill set is based around a dire need this team has. What do they really have to lose?

I'd still have Crawford fill in when Pressey isn't playing, simply because they'll need more than one ballhandler. And because Lee/Bradley can't do anything as distributors. I'm surprised Bradley isn't being pressed every time up the court.



KJ



KJ