Rockets Increase Omer Asik Talks, Hope For Trade By Dec. 19

tjmakz wrote:Yes, Houston would be under the Cap for next season but not enough to sign a significant free agent.
Without Asik they have about $50m committed to 7 players.
If they sign 5 players for a total of $5m, that would leave about $4m to sign a free agent, if the Cap stayed the same.
Yes, a 1st round pick quite different than Asik for Humphries and a 2nd round pick, especially if one of those picks is Boston's own 2014 1st round pick.

The CBA is complicated and I think you understand it better than I do, but my understanding is that being under the cap has other benefits, such as being able to do unequal trades. Using Humphries' expiring contract to lower their salary commitments for next year also gives them more room under the luxury tax threshold and more flexibility when re-signing other players, such as Chandler Parsons and Patrick Beverly. It's not just about the amount that Humphries' expiring contract puts them under the cap.

tjmakz wrote:If I was Houston, I would rather trade Asik to Atlanta for Paul Millsap over getting Humphries and a 1st round pick.

Of course. I didn't claim that Humphries for Asik was the best trade possible from Houston's perspective. What I was pointing out was that Humphries' expiring contract adds value to the trade from Houston's perspective beyond the basketball considerations (whether Humphries makes them a better team, which was the only aspect you were initially considering).

Regarding Asik-Millsap, I suppose you can never say never, but that's a far less realistic trade than Asik-Humphries. Atlanta got Millsap at a bargain rate. Ever since Danny Ferry arrived as GM, he's been getting rid of their bloated salaries (Joe Johnson, Josh Smith) and building a much more financially sound roster. Why would they now trade away one of the guys who is giving them great bang for the buck? And why would they do that to add a center when they already have Al Horford? Sure, it's a great deal for Houston, but it makes no sense for Atlanta.

In regards to Asik's (and Lin's) actual salary vs. cap hit in the third year, I've read many reports (by bloggers and boards like this one) that conflict over the last year or so.  The salary cap FAQ (was #45 I think, now is #44, or I just cut the link wrong in the other thread I linked to) uses the terms salary, cap hit, team salary, etc.   There is no mention in the FAQ that the actual salary paid follows the original offer sheet and the actual cap hit is the average of the three years salary.

The last sentence of the article posted by bobh (above) is the very first time I have ever seen it stated in that way by the actual media, with the salary paid being different than the cap hit.  So it is very possible that I do not totally understand how it works.  I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.  (LOL)

I am relatively sure the most important issue to the Celtic owners and GM is cap hit.  The Celtics were not so afraid of going over the luxury tax in the past (yes, with a contending team).  Now with the repeater penalty, many teams (all except LAL, NYK, Nets and maybe Mia) are doing all they can to get under the luxury amount.  If the balloon payment is how it works, maybe the Celtic powers-that-be won't shy away from spending the money to get a true center if it doesn't affect the luxury amount and repeater penalty.

Sorry for any confusion in my prior posts.

gyso

I disagree with giving Asik a "complainer" label. I don't remember him being a malcontent in Chicago, and from all I can tell, he was a model teammate last year in Houston when he got the opportunity to start. And he delivered on that opportunity, becoming one of the top centers in the league:

Per game -- 10.1 points, 11.7 rebounds, 1.1 blocks
Known as a very good defensive player
4th - offensive rebounds
2nd - defensive rebounds
1st - total rebounds
11th - FG percentage
20th - effective FG percentage (adjusts for 3-pointers)
10th - offensive rebound percentage
2nd - defensive rebound percentage
2nd - total rebound percentage

Asik was a very good center for Houston, but Houston had a chance to get what they considered to be the best center in the league and signed Howard, which puts Asik in limbo. He didn't say anything until after it became clear that the Rockets weren't going to use him. I don't see anything wrong with him having said a couple of times that he'd be better off if he was traded. He's just voicing the obvious and doing what he has to prevent his career from being derailed. The guy deserves to start, and he's languishing on the bench. Why does that make him a "bad attitude" guy?

Let's say in the offseason the Celtics sign LeBron James. Jeff Green has shown that he's a very good player in this league, but because they bring in LeBron and it doesn't work playing LeBron and Green together, Green is then relegated to the bench. Would Green be unjustified in saying the same thing as Asik? No.

Also look at the articles saying Asik is requesting a trade. Everything I'm finding says he "reportedly" is requesting a trade. I haven't found anything with a direct quote from him saying, "trade me." Just because the media has incessantly repeated that Asik supposedly wants a trade doesn't mean that Asik has incessantly made trade demands. People are confusing what is being reported with his actual behavior.

His situation is getting plenty of attention because he showed that he's one of the top centers in a league bereft of quality centers and anyone with a lick of sense can tell that the Rockets should trade him. That doesn't make him a malcontent.

If Boston gets the right opportunity, they should jump at the chance to get him.

sam wrote:Gyso,

Trade Machine shows $12 million next year for Humphries and $8.4 million for Asik, but it says a straight swap would be a successful trade financially.  I agree with sending one or two draft picks to sweeten the deal.

Sam

Sam,

I am surprised that the new CBA allows salaries that differ so much to actually "match".  The new CBA has different rules for tax paying teams and non-tax paying teams.  There is a lot more leeway given to non-tax paying teams, so the trade could work without filler, as you said.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q82

I may change my mind about adding a 1st rounder to the trade.  The 2014 1st round draft pick we got from the Nets has a condition on it.  Atlanta can trade picks with Brooklyn before we have access to it.  The final pick number in next year's first round that we get to take will be the worst of the two picks between those two teams.  Lets say that the Nets continue to play sub-.400 ball (doubtful) and end up in the lottery and the Hawks end up picking somewhere in the early 20's, the Hawks will just trade for the Nets lottery pick.  If the Nets get their act together and end up with a better record than the Hawks, then the Hawks will just keep their pick.

So either way, we don't get to pick until later in the first round.  It may be worth it to let that pick go to Houston in order to get Asik (stone hands and all, which is how they describe him on the Rockets' equivalent to CelticsBlog).

http://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/12/6/5182662/rockets-intensifying-omer-asik-trade-efforts-reports-say

gyso

The problem I have with the picks is the uncertainty that he is a good fit and if he is can we resign him

We cannot afford to throw assets away.

Dbosd

I'm not saying Asik is a bum center. But he seems too whiny to me.

If he does end up going to the Celtics, he'll have to learn that it's TEAM first, not ME first.




KJ

KJ

Post for me one time he's said anything that even remotely sounds whiny?

Anything

People said the same thing about Dennis Johnson.... that worked out pretty well.

Man was replaced by a premire center and bigger whiner by far. Could be he just wants to start and I see nothing wrong with that.

And who says he's not a team player?

Here is his entire BIO. If the cost is favorable I pull the trigger if I'm DA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96mer_A%C5%9F%C4%B1k

beat

beat,

Most guys would want to start. And some guys embrace the role of the bench. I just feel like the needs of the team are important.

He's on a contender. Most guys would be happy to be on a team that has a chance in the playoffs.



KJ

KJ,

Consider that he seems whiny to you because you keep hearing reports about him wanting to be traded. But he hasn't said anything publicly himself.

If the media repeats a thousand times that Asik asked privately to be traded, that may give you the impression that Asik is making public demands and that he keeps making them over and over, but that is a false impression.

Asik is Perk with two more inches and 20 fewer pounds.

He's a defensive player, like Perk.
He's a lousy, lousy free throw shooter.  He makes Perk look like the 2nd coming of Calvin Murphy.  He has never shot over 64% from the line in any season.
He has a very limited offensive repertoire.  Very limited.  Like, Ryan Hollins-limited?
He's solid, NBA Grade A beef.
Solid rebounder, 13.1rebs/36minutes career.  His rebs/36mins have fallen off only slightly this year from last.
1.7blocks/36.  Not real impressive, but who knows how many more he intimidated?
1.1assists/36:2.5TOs/36.  Not good.

Personally, I've never seen what everbody else seems to see in Asik.  I've always seen him as a whiter version of Perk and, while I like Perk, my eyes wouldn't light up like a christmas tree at the prospect off giving away good players to get him.  I just don't think he's that good.

And yes, his hands have looked pretty hard in the games I've seen him play.  That reminds me of Perk too.  All he needs to do is bounce the ball before he goes up with a shot and he'd be a brother from another mother.

Beggars can't be choosers, I suppose, and we really do need a bona fide center.


bob


.

Bob,

Here's where I see Asik as better vs. Perk.

1. Better rebounder - career 13.1 per 36 minutes, vs 9.5 for Perk.

2. Better centerpiece of the defense. By that, I mean that Perk has done well defensively when he's had KG or Ibaka behind him, whereas Asik is the guy behind everyone else.

3. His career arc is up, and he seems to be poised to improve further, while Perk's value is definitely on a downward arc.

4. Has at least shown the capacity to improve at the free throw line. His four years in the league, his FT averages:  50.3, 45.6, 56.2, 64.1. Perk showed a distinct downward trend in his FT percentage.

Points 1 and 2 are the main reasons I think he'd be really valuable for Boston. The Celtics are building a roster of young, athletic guys that seems tailor-made to get out and run, but you need rebounding to ignite the break. As a defensive anchor in the middle, he could make all those young guys better defensively and turn a good defense into an elite one. He contributes low double-digits in points, so he's not as offensively limited as, say, Tyson Chandler or DeAndre Jordan. He's more durable than Joakim Noah. He's not the second coming of Bill Russell by any means, but I can see him fitting in the construction of the whole in that type of way, making those around him better and giving those around him the freedom to do what they do better.

I see his as being somewhere around 10-12 when ranking centers I'd like to have. In a rebuilding year, giving up an expiring contract of a guy who will not be here next year and a draft pick or even two seems like a bargain to fill their most obvious hole. There are no guarantees that draft picks will turn into good players, the Celtics have lots of other picks to use for themselves, and they don't need to give away the best picks to do this deal. The long-term success of the team will likely depend on the players they have at the other positions, not on having an elite center. But the team won't have long-term success without a good center, and Asik can fill that need.

Bobh,
In your opinion, is he a better center than Vitor?
If yes, I'm calling DA to get him for Hump + 2nd round pick.
Even if he doesn't turn out to be a building block he can become a good stepping stone for acquiring a building block.

AK

I haven't seen anything suggesting that the Celtics are among the leaders in the pursuit of Asik. Which, in Danny's case, could very well mean the trade for Asik is virtually complete. LOL.

How long has it been since we've all been waiting for a true center with big league credentials and a defensive pedigree to become a Celtic? I hear about teams tending to go smaller, and I know it's possible to win a championship with a converted power forward under unusual circumstances (Bosh?). But personally, I'm sick of thinking we have a bona fide center candidate in the wings (Johnson, Fab, Olynyk, etc.) only to discover that he's not REALLY a center or he's not REALLY good or we should be patient and wait until we draft a great center prospect with a mid-round pick.

Asik is not the second coming of Russell. But he's the closest thing that's legitimately available right now and quite likely in the near future. Screw what we've heard about his wining because he's not playing. If he were to come to Boston, the reason for that complaint would disappear during his plane trip to join this team. It's possible that a bad attitude might carry over to the Celtics, just as it did with Jordan Crawford. Oh wait! You say free agent, and I say salary cap. You say draft, I say Fabulous.

It may be unrealistic to believe that Houston would bite on whatever the Celtics might offer. But, if there's an opportunity to procure a tough center in trade for a player who is a secondary part of a deep cadre of power forwards, supplement the offer with two first-rounders who are otherwise of unknown value to the Celts, and give the option of switching first round slots in 2014. Whatever it takes.

Any trade involves risk. But I'm sick of feeling like some dilettante who seriously believes the chances to procure a tough center are always right around the next corner.

Sam

k_j_88 wrote:beat,

Most guys would want to start. And some guys embrace the role of the bench. I just feel like the needs of the team are important.

He's on a contender. Most guys would be happy to be on a team that has a chance in the playoffs.



KJ

Thing is he WAS starting and doing well. Then the signing of Howard and an upgrade to the position. Sort of like the boss replaced him.

SO he's on a contender....... If he were a bench player before I could understand a little but he wasn't. And it does look that he could be in the playoffs with us. Just no real chance of going very far, THIS YEAR !!

As the "deadline" nears the asking price might be reduced too. If they truly want to get rid of him. We need be in no hurry here but if the asking price is Hump and a pick I take it. Would that pick turn out to be as good as him?? Sort of doubt it.

beat

I agree, Beat, although I believe that time is of the essence and Danny should push for such a deal before being scooped by some other team.

Sam

Rumor du jour says that Houston is on track to make their deadline, 12/19, and that the rumor is

Varajao for Asik.


http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/731/could-omer-asik-land-in-cleveland



bob


.

I guess that makes sense for both teams IF Varejao will be healthy. He could play PF AND spell Howard. I wonder whether draft picks would be involved. Here's hoping it falls apart and Danny can take a run at Asik.

Sam

Houston wants at least 2 1st rounders for Asik in addition to whatever player is exchanged.

Houston, we have delusion.


KJ

Here's Forsberg's idea for a trade to get Asik:

Here's the deal I'd pitch to Houston: Bass, Crawford, MarShon Brooks and the Clippers' 2015 first-rounder for Asik and Omri Casspi. Listen, no one appreciates Bass more than me, but Jared Sullinger and Kelly Olynyk are the future at the 4. The Celtics desperately need a rim protector and they don't come much better than Asik, a guy the Rockets have to deal by mid-December. You sell high on Crawford and send out Brooks to ensure you stay under the tax line after the deal. If Houston is leery, you toss in that Clippers pick from Doc Rivers' departure, which will likely be late first round anyhow. It leaves you exposed at point guard until Rondo is healthy, but you unclog at both the 2 and the 4, while adding the potential center of the future. The idea of Asik as the back line of a Stevens defense would leave Boston swooning while filling the Celtics' most glaring need.


So, to sum up:

Bass, Crawford, Brooks and Clips 2015 1st round pick to Houston
Asik and Casspi to Boston



bob



.

I don't like it, but I'd do it. I'm not sure how much the Clips' draft pick would mean to Houston.

Sam

Keep Bass. Give them Bogans instead (lol).


KJ

I'm with Sam, I don't care what it costs. Get a center, Danny!

I think we are  overlooking an important factor.

Asik left the Bulls because he wanted more money and they were not willing to match the offer that Houston put on the table because it did not make sense to do that for a backup center. And there was nothing in his overall production that warranted a big raise.

To me the main issue is about value both present and future.  The value of our current and future assets (players, draft picks, options)  

I would really like to see a deal that brings him to Boston.  But at the same time I do not want the Celtics to leverage their assets given the real possibility that in 1 1/2 years Asik becomes a free agent and wants a $12 million per year contract because that is what he is going to want.

From a value standpoint he leaves too many boxes unchecked.  In my opinion he is a legit rebounding center. Basically he rebounds the ball well and that is it.  He is not a good defender and has never been a guy to block or alter shots and his offense is very limited.  He does not pass well, has no handle.  So Can we use his rebounding yes but does he bring a more complete set of skills to the table that we need in a center.   NO

The Celtics will get the center for their future but Asik may not be him.  It is pretty funny to me that it has been suggested that Jeff Green for Asik would be a good deal to make.  Houston is going to pull a deal off but they really do not have any meaningful assets invested in Asik.  He was a free agent signing so it is not like they gave up something to get him and therefore they need a comparable return.  He is a center and centers are in demand so they want to extract as much value that they can squeeze out of a deal.  They have to move him because they have to resign Parsons next year so they are not in the driver's seat unless some dumb team turns the wheel over to them.

The Celtics do not have to do anything.  

dboss

dboss,

Well said!


Pete

Thanks Pete

But I also can appreciate everyone's opinion on this.

dboss