lakers and height and the bully factor

Gasol hits a chippie with .4 seconds left. 2ot.

Second overtime for Lakers-Sac. Give LAL credit. They came back from 7 down in the overtime and Gasol hit a tip-in with 0.4 left to tie it.

kobe 46 minutes gasol 46 minutes. this can only be good. Bynum 3 points in 28 minutes.

Kobe hits a couple of hero 3's to win it in ot. Sportscenter lites up. Lakers starters play epic minutes again. From a celtics point of view it's all good. Lakes showed true grit. But wonder how Kobe will feel when he wakes up in the morn?

No way they can keep this up. Kobe nd Gasol will log 50 minute per.

Hey, if it were the Celtics, we'd be congratulating them for their guts. Have to hand it to the Lakers and to Kobe.

The Lakers are hanging tough but if their climb continues to be this steep they are going to struggle to get back to finals.

Sam

Very true. As a celtics man I watch the minutes. The Lakers specialy Kobe stood tall again when it counted. Full marks.

When we communicate, when we play with energy, when we’re aggressive, when we have a defensive mindset first, when everybody on this team does their job, does their role, man, we’re a pretty difficult team to deal with. That within itself sets a presence, and that’s all. We’ve just got to be consistent. We want to be consistent in what we do. But at the same time we want to have a presence about ourselves.”

kg

jeb65 wrote:wonder what mark stein is going to find negative to say about the celtics this week.

My guess your new number one. cavs.

I am a prophet...miss Cleo move over.

Ha!

Lebron "king" James and his cadavers are the consensus new number 1!!!

jeb65 wrote:if gasol and bynum cant go over their men that leaves who...kobe. Odom is good but not as good as his rep specialy against tough physical d. Kobe aint gettin calls today...it's weird.

Jackson is going to have to coach for real and not just hand out copies of catcher in the rye if these guys are going to win it as they currently stand.

zero bench...very tall good starting 5...Kobe ALWAYS tries to do it himself when faced against a real team...looks like 08 if everbody on both sides stays healthy.

Jeb-

That game on Christmas was like a bad flashback for me to the '08 Finals. INstead of making their own justice after Shaq took down Pau hard and then Kobe a few times, they started crying to the refs. It was like last year, when they got very physical vs Denver and Orlando, never happened. Some sort of weird flashback, made all the worse by the fact that the team didn't show up in the first place.

What an embarrassing display on national tv. To just outright phone it in. Sickening.

Artest was the only guy who came to play. NOt coincidentally, he's the only one who's not sitting there fat and happy with his ring.

beat wrote:Cleveland just flat out wants this a whole lot more!!!

The understatement of the year, my friend.

beat wrote:GREAT FANS IN LA!!

beat-

question for you. The media loves to rag on LA fans for being too laid back, not vocal enough, etc.

And yet the one time that the fans actually blow up and throw things on the court (which were made of foam and completely harmless), the media wigs out and says a bunch of hooligans went to the game. Now I'm not talking about the idiot that threw the bottle of water. That guy should have been arrested.

BUt the media made it seem like Staples was filled with a bunch of guys from the bleachers in Yankee Stadium who started throwing batteries at the players- the way they do in the Bronx.


It seems like the media is trying to have it both ways. Either the fans are too laid back or they're hooligans. BUt they're certainly not both.

What's your take ?


My personal view is this: after being up late Christmas Eve celebrating with my family, I woke up at 4:30am back East on 3 hours of sleep on Christmas morning and spent the next 13 hours in cars, planes and more cars to arrive at the Staples Center. Where I witnessed a bunch of players show that they didn't care about the game, and saw one of the most inconsistently-called games I have seen in a long time. The refs didn't cost the Lakers the game- the Lakers cost themselves the game. but the refs did absolutely suck.

So when those foam things started raining down on the court, I laughed and cheered. Because there is no worse feeling to have than feeling like you put more effort into getting to the game than your team put into playing it. And on top of it to have it called badly by the refs. So I saw the foam tossing as a repudiation of both the refs calls AND the Lakers disgusting lack of effort. I was one of the fans that was booing them from the second quarter on because I was pissed that they couldn't be bothered to show up and play with some effort. They deserved to be booed.

So I felt like the foam hands throwing was a Christmas present that the fans were giving back to the team (and the refs) to embarrass them- as the team had given all of us fans a Christmas present composed of a flaming bag of dogshit through their lack of effort.

For the record, I didn't toss a foam thing on the court b/c I didn't take one in the first place. I hate all of those foam "We're # 1" hands and everything of the sort, so I wanted nothing to do with it.

BUt if I had one, I was so pissed at that point that I might well have tossed it. Don't know if that makes me a hooligan or not.

I am curious what your thoughts are on this though. Too soft or too rowdy ?

I don't know any laid back hooligans.

sky

things are rough all over. what gives with bynum?

Other than the fact that he's got his head up his ass ?

Coming back from some kind of cold/flu, not getting enough touches, and, in a related development, not trying enough on D or on the boards.

The whole team is not bringing it right now.

See my other thread I just started.

Hope you had a nice Christmas buddy.

you too. nice to see you around here. not the best time for either of our beloved squads.

BSK

You asked this.........

question for you. The media loves to rag on LA fans for being too laid back, not vocal enough, etc.

And yet the one time that the fans actually blow up and throw things on the court (which were made of foam and completely harmless), the media wigs out and says a bunch of hooligans went to the game. Now I'm not talking about the idiot that threw the bottle of water. That guy should have been arrested.

BUt the media made it seem like Staples was filled with a bunch of guys
BSK



from the bleachers in Yankee Stadium who started throwing batteries at the players- the way they do in the Bronx.


It seems like the media is trying to have it both ways. Either the fans are too laid back or they're hooligans. BUt they're certainly not both.

What's your take ?

My take,

Thought of a lot of things I could say but I think it cut to the typical LA fan as viewed from afar. Like showing up for Dodger games in the third inning and leaving in the sixth.

By the way throwing ANYTHING on the floor is far from harmless as it can lead to who knows what else........... plus it is in obvious violation of any arenas policies. Lets suppose the first finger gets stepped on and the player slips..............then what? Torn ACL, twisted ankle, ect.

"harmless" then?

So they (the fans) threw "foam' fingers and for once seemed to get off their collective arses and be vocal. Problem goes to many levels. I believe that the Lakers (and their fans) are quite use to getting calls to go their way esp at home and when they were not they were a bit miffed as to how to respond. Phil looks lke a fool discussing the lack of calls but thats how he appears to me anyway.

His team was not ready and that's on him.

The media is what it is, but again the fans should never throw anything period and to call it harmless is just plain wrong! IMHO

beat

Babyskyhook

If you think throwing things at the opposing team = fans showing passion, there is really nothing to say.

Info on Bynum from my fantisy league............here we go again perhaps, kids a train wreck.
perhaps explains his not so good showings lately, and why Gasol is getting heavy minutes.

Tue, Dec 29

Bynum has apparently been dealing with "tightness" in his knee recently, the Orange County Register reports.

Recommendation: That sentence probably makes Laker fans and Bynum's owners a little nauseous, but the soreness is not considered serious at this point. At the least, this news helps explain Bynum's struggles as of late. Bymum has started undergoing minor treatment on the area and has not yet missed any games, so hopefully his knee starts to feel better and his production increases at the same time.

(Rotowire.com)

Sky,

Why do we subject ourselves to this? We ought to know that there are three kinds of NBA seasons:

1. Our team is mediocre and, despite all that we do to put on a good face, at some point in the season the writing's on the wall.

2. Our team has smooth sailing virtually all the way (a VERY VERY rare occurrence: 72-73 Lakers? 07-08 Celtics?)

3. Our team is an obvious contender, but the season's a roller coaster of issues and/or injuries; and the name of the game is to gain peak momentum as the playoffs near.

I believe both of our teams (and all other contenders) are in category 3 this seasona. The early leader, in terms of possibly seeing light at the end of the tunnel) may be the Cavs. But I use the term "early" advisedly because there will probably be more twists and turns than an inflamed intestine before this season ends.

In the long run, the championship could well represent more a battle of survival than a battle of skill. And, in my view, the team most likely to win will be the one that enjoys the best chemistry at playoff time...because good chemistry offers the path of least resistance in achieving a goal. Sort of like the difference between fresh and sludgy oil operating on a piston.

If Bynum's got some current issues, I believe Perk is going through his own version. I'm not convinced Artest has discovered his optimal role any more than Ray Allen and his inside-outside split personality.. Two many minutes for Kobe? Maybe he and Paul Pierce need to do lunch. Mister unpredictable? You've got Odom, we've got Sheed. Fish is long in the tooth? Rondo's short on his free throws. Can Pau's disposition stand the toughness test? Can KG's knee stand the jackhammer test? Is Shannon a trick-or-treater or the real deal? Oops, did I say "Shannon?" I meant Tony Allen. And every one of these pieces of the puzzle will have a bearing on the eventual chemistries that I prize so highly.

And the quandaries are not limited to the players. How would either Phil or Doc rate in terms of integrating newcomers and reacting to adversity and the need for adjustments?

Anyone who believes either of these teams represents anything close to a finished product (or, for that matter, the product we'll see in late April), should think again. There's loads of basketball yet to be played and watched.

And, as fans, we shouldn't make the mistake of assuming it'll all be great basketball either. The process of improving usually involves a lot of trial and error; ups and downs; periods of exhilaration and of "disses" (DISallusionment and DISmay).

Fans' reactions (whether on a message board or in attendance at games) to the vagaries of a basketball season reflect their relative basketball maturity (or lack of same). It's my opinion that those who maintain a healthy balance between passion and coolness are the mature ones. Those whose petulant approach to the game overrides their sense of reason still have lots to learn (and appreciate) about the sport.

Experiencing the means imparts more knowledge than enjoying the end.

Sam

Sam wrote:Experiencing the means imparts more knowledge than enjoying the end.

Sam

This is a perfect quote Sam, and one that very closely echoes what I was telling my girlfriend last night.

She asked if I was disappointed that I stayed up late twice this week, only to see the Celtics lose games they should have won. And I told her that watching every minute of every game (within reason), helps me to really connect with the team.

I can see how fatigue plays a factor with an older team. I saw exactly where Rondo pulled his hamstring and saw him struggle through it to have a great offensive game, but also knew he could not stop Ellis with that injury. I saw Glen Davis show spurts of his old self, but also saw him get tired and frustrated when a few shots came up short.

I like the playoffs and championships as much as the next guy, but I like the grind of the season too. I like that you can beat Orlando and then lose to the Clippers. I like how they blew out Philly in Philadelphia, and then lose to them at home. I like the good and the bad…because it not only builds character, but it builds camaraderie. I have been a fan since the 70s – and a die hard since they played Phoenix in that famous series in 1976…when I was 7 years old.

I want them to win every night, but know that is not how life goes. And I actually like it that way. I like the flaws in people and in our team….especially since I know they can overcome them and prevail in the end. As Sam so succinctly put it, the ride is just as enjoyable as the destination.

Mrkleen,

That's what makes you an observer, not simply a fan. (Not that there's anything wrong with being a fan. I'm a movie fan and I wish I knew more about how to be a good movie observer.)

But I have one question for you, Mrkleen.

Since you used something similar in talking with your girlfriend, can you tell me whether the "means versus the end" line works in all circumstances between the sexes? I'm age 72, and I need every advantage I can get.

Sam

You're lucky if you can find a girl who lets you enjoy her end.

I generally try to stay out of the Laker bashing, but I'll throw my take on it out there anyway. My New Years' gift to everyone

Regarding stereotype of LA fans arriving late, leaving early, and not being passionate fans... That could well be true for many people who attend the games, but I don't consider that representative of the fan base as a whole. Personally, I avoid attending pro games because the tickets are ridiculously expensive and the whole experience seems a pretext to part me from my money, and I say that of basketball, baseball, and football. They want ridiculous sums to park, have something to eat, or enjoy a beer. I could go on an extended rant about it, but my point here is that I think current day sports have driven away the average fan in favor of the well-to-do and corporations who use their tickets to entertain clients, and those people are not representative of the average fan. All these tendencies are taken to an extreme in LA. The people at Laker games are not typical fans. I've heard plenty of cheering and hollering out my back door when Laker games are on.

Regarding Laker fans throwing the foam fingers on the floor... I only saw the first half and didn't see any of this, but I agree with some points on both sides. I do think it's unacceptable to throw anything on the floor. I don't think foam fingers are any sort of safety hazard (are we outlawing Nerf guns?). The water bottle is a whole 'nother deal. I do see BSK's point about having it both ways when it comes to a portrayal of Lakers fans -- they can't be laid-back wine-sipping hooligans. To some extent (other than the water bottle), the Great Foam Finger Riot actually raised my perception of people who go to Laker games because they showed they can be like people from any other city and joined the grand tradition of throwing freebies provided by the team when said team stinks up the joint in a high-profile game. As far as being any sort of hooligans, well... I think LA fans have a ways to go to catch up with Philly.

Regarding the state of the current Lakers squad... Yes, they have issues. They were awful on Christmas against Cleveland. Kobe and Gasol play too many minutes. The bench is thin. Bynum isn't putting up the numbers he had before Gasol came back. They've played a lot of home games. Artest is literally a head case. But listening to some of the posts here, I'm surprised their record isn't 8-23. They're 25-6. They'll be there come playoff time. They're not the same "soft" team the Celtics faced in 2008. They play in the stronger conference, not the weaker one. I understand that they're the hated rivals, but I encourage you to have a respectful hatred rather than an irrational one. I hope that both the Celtics and Lakers are healthy and playing well in the finals because I think they'll be worthy opponents.

Regarding Bynum... Let's see how things play out rather than jump to conclusions. His stats have gone down since Gasol came back, but you can't throw him on the scrap heap yet. Even if he has to sit out a few games to rest his knee, that's not the end of the world. Are KG and Pierce worthless come playoff time because they had to sit out games during the season? Concerns about Bynum won't go away until he makes it through the season and performs well in the playoffs, but inconsistent numbers and a report of tightness in his knee aren't the end of the world. He's 22 years old. Let's see how it goes.

Outside

I began writing my previous post before Sam posted his, and I probably wouldn't have bothered with mine if I'd seen his first. Sam did a nice job of bringing rationality and perspective back to the discussion, which was really my main intent.