lakers and height and the bully factor

Sam wrote:Mrkleen,

That's what makes you an observer, not simply a fan. (Not that there's anything wrong with being a fan. I'm a movie fan and I wish I knew more about how to be a good movie observer.)

But I have one question for you, Mrkleen.

Since you used something similar in talking with your girlfriend, can you tell me whether the "means versus the end" line works in all circumstances between the sexes? I'm age 72, and I need every advantage I can get.

Sam

Thanks Sam.

I think that my post is part truth and part hyperbole. I love the journey (means), but I cant say I am being completely honest if I tell you that that last 3 years were not imminently more enjoyable than the previous 10 or 20.

So as it relates to both basketball and relationships, there needs to be a balance between the ends and the means. When we are young, it is all about the means – just enjoy the moment you are in, since statistics say you no longer are likely to marry your high school or college sweetheart. As you get older however, if you and your partner are not in tune with a potential end (are you working towards marriage or a long term thing, or just having fun and passing some time), it makes for a rocky journey.

I think you have to have your end game at least on the table from fairly early on – and then FORGET ABOUT IT…and just live the journey. This is what I like about Doc Rivers. He talks about winning the championship at the beginning of the season, and then just lets the season unfold the way it is going to…without harping on each and every moment. With veterans teams like the Celtics, his silence after a loss is often more powerful than blowing up.

My girlfriend and I are in a fairly new relationship (we met in November), and while we have not talked about anything heavy like marriage or kids – I know she wants both, and so do I. Might not be with her, but just the fact that this is a known fact takes the pressure off in terms of worrying about wasting each other’s time. Now we can sit back and enjoy the ride (means) with the potential finale being us together forever.

Hope that answered your question.

Outside

With all due respect I have HATED the lakers for as long as I have followed the C's............thats just the way it is. That feeling has never changed. Do like um one bit period. I have nothing good to say about Phil.......had nothing good to say about Riley in the 80's either. Can't stand Kobe, didn't like Magic.

That said they always had my RESPECT cause I knew they were/are good.
This is a Celtic forum first and foremost. I am glad that there are a couple of Laker fans that post here and offer their view from the left coast. I can't be totally objective about this nor should I have to be. I am a Celtic FAN!!

I do know that if not for the Lakers over the years, that winning 17 titles would not mean as much. Just like Russell needed Wilt the Celtics need the Lakers.........and they need them to be competitive.

And where did anyone jump to conclusions on Bynum?
Heck I only pointed out what was said about him in my fantisy league.
With him any news about soreness to the knees is an issue.

And by the way I do know a girl that was hit right in the eye with a nerf gun "dart" (one that has the tine suction cup on the tip) and she could no longer play sports. She was a pretty good hoop player from a local high school. I know it sounds crazy put I remember it well.
Said it had to have hit her perfectly to do the damage it did.

Throwing anything on the floor should result is being thrown out of the game at the very least.

beat

Mrkleen,

Although my question was totally rhetorical and meant entirely in jest, you gave an excellent answer. I'm working on long-term marriage—if you count two of them, more than 50 years of it (20 and 30 respectively), and there's one thing I've learned. It's rewarding to enjoy accomplishment but equally important not to introduce a sense of finality at the risk of overlooking the excitement and pleasure that still lies ahead. Which is, perhaps not so coincidentally, almost precisely how I view Celtics basketball and, for that matter, life itself.

Sam

beat wrote:With all due respect I have HATED the lakers for as long as I have followed the C's............thats just the way it is. That feeling has never changed. Do like um one bit period. I have nothing good to say about Phil.......had nothing good to say about Riley in the 80's either. Can't stand Kobe, didn't like Magic.

That said they always had my RESPECT cause I knew they were/are good.
This is a Celtic forum first and foremost. I am glad that there are a couple of Laker fans that post here and offer their view from the left coast. I can't be totally objective about this nor should I have to be. I am a Celtic FAN!!

I do know that if not for the Lakers over the years, that winning 17 titles would not mean as much. Just like Russell needed Wilt the Celtics need the Lakers.........and they need them to be competitive.

Beat, I understand fully that you hate them. It's right in your screen name. Not a thing wrong with that. My point was to respond to the numerous posts in this thread (from posters like yourself whom I like, I might add) that seemed nothing more than mindless Laker bashing. It just seemed petty to me and didn't seem to show any respect to a rival who is worthy of respect.

I know you're a fervent Celtic fan and Laker hater, but think how it is for a Laker fan who takes that same approach and hates Russell, Bird, and Auerbach just because they're Celtics. That fan is losing out on opportunities to appreciate some of the greatness the game has to offer. I'm not expecting to turn this into a Laker love-fest or to have everyone give Phil a hug the next time he comes to Boston, but it would be nice if you could say one, just one, good thing about Phil. No, he's not a more accomplished coach than Auerbach, but the man has won ten titles and I think the NBA is more interesting place with him in it. Sorry, it's my unrealistic, Pollyanna-ish side coming through. I'll send you a roll of toilet paper with Phil's picture on every ply.

beat wrote:And where did anyone jump to conclusions on Bynum?

Uh... I believe you did. At least that's how I interpreted your line that "here we go again perhaps, kids a train wreck." If I misinterpreted that, please accept my apologies.

beat wrote:And by the way I do know a girl that was hit right in the eye with a nerf gun "dart" (one that has the tine suction cup on the tip) and she could no longer play sports. She was a pretty good hoop player from a local high school. I know it sounds crazy put I remember it well.
Said it had to have hit her perfectly to do the damage it did.

I'm sorry that happened, but that was a projectile with more than just foam, and like you said, it was a million-to-one freak occurrence. I don't see the danger of a bunch of foam fingers falling on the floor. I really don't.

beat wrote:Throwing anything on the floor should result is being thrown out of the game at the very least.

I agree. I've never thrown an object of any sort, foam or otherwise, onto a playing field or court in my life, and I don't condone it in any way. But that wasn't the point BSH was making. His point was that it went against the stereotype of the laid-back, dispassionate LA fan, and I agreed that it does. I haven't seen anyone here suggesting that it's good behavior.

Outside

Outside,

I usually agree with you on most issues, and I apologize if I'm misinterpreting you on this one. But I believe that, regardless of whether it's in Los Angeles or Boston or Wilkes Barre, throwing any debris whatsoever on a sporting surface should be subject to severe penalty.

My feeling has nothing to do with whether or not I like a given team, but it has plenty to do with the fact that such a mindless act puts people in needless danger. It doesn't matter whether it's foam or not because the danger is not posed solely by the possibility that a piece of foam might hit someone. Aside from possible injury through slippage, the very act of throwing something incites others to throw something. And, if they have no foam to throw, maybe they'll throw a water bottle. And, if they have no water bottle to throw and they happen to have brought a can of food to donate to a team's food pantry drive, maybe they'll throw the can. Neither you nor I nor anyone else can legislate what a given idiot will decide to throw in emulation of another idiot. So a barrage of thrown foam fingers could easily lead to the jettisoning of a far more dangerous projectile.

It shouldn't happen, period. And, personally, I would elect not to leave it to someone who may have had a bunch of beers to make the judgment as to what's all in fun.

That sort of thing qualifies as sub-bush-league regardless of venue. And I guarantee I'd say the same thing if it happened in Boston. I recall doing so when a bunch of yahoos threw golf balls at a right fielder in Fenway Park years ago.

In the old days, if a hockey player scored a hat trick, a bunch of fedoras came sailing out onto the ice. I don't imagine that happens any longer because men don't wear fedoras—although perhaps something (I hope equally benign and safely timed) has replaced it. At least that was a tradition, and it was good-spirited, and the players, officials, and a clean-up crew were all primed for it to occur. I can't conceive of any rationale that excuses throwing stuff in anger.

Sam

Sam,

Actually, I think we're in agreement, and I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I agree with everything you said. Everything. I don't condone the Laker fans throwing the foam fingers on the floor, and I'd be happy if every single fan who ever threw something onto a court or field was escorted out and charged with a misdemeanor. The only instance I can think of that is even mildly tolerable is the hat-trick one you mention, and even then, I'm not for it. I stand strongly for civil behavior. Just because I think the foam fingers are harmless doesn't mean I think it's okay for fans to throw them, because I don't. I can't stress enough how much I don't think it's okay. I'm someone who'd willingly prevent someone from throwing something and has stood up against group-driven poor behavior at sporting events rather than silently keeping my disapproval to myself.

I was making two narrow points regarding the Laker fan behavior.

First, I agree with BSH's point that Laker fans throwing the fingers on the court is counter to the LA fan stereotype. I don't approve of them throwing stuff on the court, but I do think it runs counter to the laid-back stereotype.

Second, I recall numerous instances over the years in various sports when teams distributed freebies at games and then saw their fans throw them back when the home team played horribly, and the foam-finger incident put the LA fans in with those other fans. I used a poor choice of words in describing that when I said that the incident "raised my perception of people who go to Laker games because they showed they can be like people from any other city." The word "raised" in particular was a poor choice on my part because it implied I approve of the behavior when I don't. It was a poorly executed attempt at humor. I had previously described the typical fan who attends LA games as not representative of the fan base, and the joke was supposed to be that, gee, they can act like jerks in other cities so I guess they're like fans everywhere else. I worded it poorly, the joke was poor to begin with, and it was executed as poorly as the Lakers' offense against the Cavs. I deserve forty lashes with a foam finger (sigh... there I go again).

Anyway, feel free to confront me if something I write comes across poorly. More than likely, it's just me screwing up, and I appreciate the opportunity to set things straight.

Oh, and in case I wasn't clear about it, anyone who throws anything onto a court or field, even if the object is as harmless as a foam finger, should be removed and charged with at least a misdemeanor. It's unacceptable.

Outside

Outside

Dont think beat and i were saying the lakes were bad at all. They are very very good. Kobe and Gasol are playing huge minutes. Phil does not trust his bench and they struggle up front against long physical teams. Thats how I see it. I think they are not as good as their record and are going to struggle to GET to the finals if the season keeps going how it is now. Thats what I see and thats what I think. And I watch them a lot.

Your post seemed a bit superior to me and that aint like you.

jeb

jeb65 wrote:Your post seemed a bit superior to me and that aint like you.

Jeb,

That's certainly not my intent. In the future, I'll try harder to avoid inserting myself in Laker-oriented threads. It's such delicate ground to tread and not worth the trouble. I caused myself far more headaches than my meager points were worth.

Outside

outside

no worries. just sayin i am callin this one how i see it.

Outside,

Thanks for the additional comments, although they really weren't necessary. Every one of us know you're a great guy and an objective one.

Sam

Hats off to Kobe with another circus gamewinner.

And hats off to Phil for playing him 47 minutes along with 40 for Gasol.

I do not think it is all negative to do it like the Lakers are doing it.

Might end up where they get a nice lead for homecourt advantage and can ease on the minutes later on in the season and everybody else try to catch up and play their guys big minutes.

Swede

Interesting point. I don't think Phil has much choice if he wants to win. Or he damn sure would not be doing it.
I dont think it will play out that way either because the Celts Magic Cavs are going to be right on their heels.

jeb65 wrote:Hats off to Kobe with another circus gamewinner.

And hats off to Phil for playing him 47 minutes along with 40 for Gasol.

jeb,

I was monitoring that game last night in the last half of the 4th quarter. I was really hoping for a Laker loss, when the time went to 0:00 and the game action displayed a game-winning 3-pointer by Kobe, I wanted to puke.

As you said, big minutes for Kobe (47:14) and Gasol (40:30). Kobe sat for 46 seconds? Why even bother? I hope that continues. That will surely not help the Lakers if they continue to wear themselves out against the likes of the Kings and the Warriors. They will be lucky to come out on top of the western conference at that pace.

The Kings missed two free throws down the stretch that would have helped. Phil's substitutions were curious. Farmar substituted for Bynum during a timeout and the Kings had the next posession. That seemed backwards to me. Wouldn't a team want a shot blocking big in for defense?

gyso

jeb65 wrote:Swede

Interesting point. I don't think Phil has much choice if he wants to win. Or he damn sure would not be doing it.
I dont think it will play out that way either because the Celts Magic Cavs are going to be right on their heels.

Very possible.

They might think that homecourt advantage is that crucial/advantageous to them.
They might also suspect somewhat easy playoffs and potential rest then.

You know these Kobe last second shots make me wonder?
How can you not cover him at the end of a game, switch on all picks or double him WHAT FRIGGEN EVER ect even at the risk of leaving another outside shooter ANYONE ELSE open.

Gotta wonder what the coaches are saying and some or most of it has to fall on the players on the court. Geesh have they watched the last 10 or so Laker wins?

beat

Beat

I watch their minutes close. Remember how we felt last year when mikki Moore was on the floor. Lotta laker fans feelin that way with Jordan and Sasha.

Phil is taking an awful big risk...Gasol played all summer and Kobe despite his magnificent conditioning will begin to wear down

But Kobe is realy gettin it done late in close games so hats off.

obvious update on the Lakes. Crush Dallas like a hot grape but lose Gasol to a hammie...the other hammie.

who is going to be healthy come may?

Jeb: I think nothing will be healthier than Kobe's bank book, unfortunately! I wonder what Garnett's condition will be like by then? What will be the condition of Rondo's hamstring? Will we discover an anti biotic cure for Pierce's knee infection?-MD.

MD

Phil is choosing to win now. Know I have said it before but Lakes are a slightly better version of us last year before KG went down.

Rondo is young he will be fine. PP's thing will be over in a week. KG will come back rested and ready to go.

This team is loaded.

MDCelticsFan wrote:Jeb: I think nothing will be healthier than Kobe's bank book, unfortunately! I wonder what Garnett's condition will be like by then? What will be the condition of Rondo's hamstring? Will we discover an anti biotic cure for Pierce's knee infection?-MD.

Just Dropped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In):

Kenny Rogers and the First Edition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjB8BxrvYWU&feature=related

jeb65 wrote:MD

Phil is choosing to win now. Know I have said it before but Lakes are a slightly better version of us last year before KG went down.

Rondo is young he will be fine. PP's thing will be over in a week. KG will come back rested and ready to go.

This team is loaded.

Jeb,

Check this out:

http://www.dailynews.com/ci_14122221?source=rss

This is the condition of the Lakers.

gyso

Yeah Gyso

I read it. Seems the Lakes got their own set a hassles. Out of all our injuries Rondo's worries me the most due to his freakish quickness. And hammys can linger.


Lot of woe is me talk about our beloved Celtics out on the web. Many including some a our own are writing us off. I'll probably take a beating here for saying this but with our full roster back I think we could beat the Lakers without kg. Wallace would adapt and get it done.

jeb65 wrote:MD

Phil is choosing to win now. Know I have said it before but Lakes are a slightly better version of us last year before KG went down.

Rondo is young he will be fine. PP's thing will be over in a week. KG will come back rested and ready to go.

This team is loaded.

loaded....locked and loaded,look at our friggin bench Sheed,Baby,SW,House,TA,Quis,how many teams are legit 11 deep?

Cow

I think danny will bring us one more solid vet...justa hunch.