POST GAME CLEVELAND - AWAY

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Post by 112288 Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:12 pm

NEXT GAME - MONDAY - AWAY - AT PHIL - 7:00PM

NESN

Final, Celtics win 111-99: Kelly Olynyk and Avery Bradley each dropped 20 points, Jeff Green and Brandon Bass each supplied 19 points, and the Celtics earned their second consecutive win. The Celtics (25-55) led by as many as 33 points and held the Cleveland Cavaliers (32-49) to 16 third-quarter points to run away with the victory. Phil Pressey matched his career high with 13 assists and a shorthanded bench did just enough to enable Boston to win.

Three players scored 15 points each for the directionless Cavs. Fourth quarter, 5:06, Celtics 107-83: This is the part where Brad Stevens normally would pull his starters. Except, he can’t. His starters are basically all he has. What’s left of the Celtics roster is finishing off an absolute beatdown by Lake Erie. This performance is downright embarrassing for the Cavs. They’re not even attempting to play defense now, just letting Pressey or whichever ballhandler drive easily into the lane. At least Pressey is capitalizing. He has 12 assists, one short of the career high he set Friday night.

Fourth quarter, 9:01, Celtics 98-65: Chris Johnson has his basket. And everybody else got a couple, too, for good measure. After Green cleared everybody out to back down Jarrett Jack and missed a short fadeaway, Johnson sneaked into the paint, nabbed the offensive board and scored a putback. Everyone who has logged minutes for Boston has now scored. Nice work, Cleveland.

End of third quarter, Celtics 89-58: Even the Celtics can’t blow this lead, can they? Olynyk and Bradley keep pouring it on, each scoring 25 points to lead Boston’s offensive explosion. They’re shooting 46 percent from three and have committed only seven turnovers as a team. The Celtics have led by as many as 31 points, with every player scoring a basket except Chris Johnson. Babb got his on a corner three, out of a kick-out by a driving Johnson. If you’re the Celtics, it’s time to get CJ a bucket. That’s all you really have to accomplish now, aside from actually winning the game.

Third quarter, 6:40, Celtics 72-51: Say this much for Mike Brown: He doesn’t get cheated on his timeouts. After the Cavs scored nine unanswered points to pull within 17, the Celtics responded with layups by Bass and Green to cross the 20-point lead margin again. With that, Brown wants a timeout. Hey, you can’t take them with you.

Third quarter, 10:44, Celtics 68-42: The Cavs look lost after getting blitzed to begin the second half. Don’t they know that’s usually the Celtics’ job? A Bass jumper and a Bradley three finish off an 8-0 run by the Celtics to begin the third quarter, forcing an early timeout by Mike Brown. The Celtics have their largest lead of the game at 26 points, and when you’re trailing the Celtics by 26 points, you have some issues.

Halftime, Celtics 60-42: Kelly Olynyk just had his best first half of his career, dropping 20 points to lead the Celtics to almost that large a lead. Triples by Jeff Green and Avery Bradley helped pushed the Celtics’ lead to a game-high 18 points as Olynyk is doing whatever he wants against the Cavs. No big man is covering him one-on-one and no guard is dropping down the help. Seriously, Cavs. I know it’s only Olynyk, but at some point you have to adjust for a guy who is hot. Olynyk is also just two rebounds shy of a double-double already and Phil Pressey has seven assists leading a crisp Boston offense. The Celtics have 14 assists on 22 field goals and are 6-for-13 from downtown. Kyrie Irving leads the Cavs with 13 points, but his backcourt mate, Dion Waiters, doesn’t seem to be enjoying himself. He’s 3-for-10, so perhaps he’s just frustrated, but if there were an NBA award for Best Body Language, Waiters might come in last.

Second quarter, 3:23, Celtics 45-38: The officials have tightened up here in the second and it’s not working in Boston’s favor. Dion Waiters and Kyrie Irving have gotten to the foul line a total of 10 times, converting eight of the freebies.

Second quarter, 6:22, Celtics 41-28: Some teams hold bobblehead night. The Cavs apparently held Tip Dunk Night. Avery Bradley followed Pressey’s putback slam by cleaning up Olynyk’s mess and throwing down the miss. The Celtics have just four offensive rebounds, but they are making them count.

Second quarter, 8:39, Celtics 36-24: Not surprisingly, the Cavs have made some headway against Boston’s bench. But it’s not nearly as much as they should. The Cavs briefly pulled within six points with Chris Babb, Joel Anthony and Chris Johnson all on the floor together. Yet the Celtics’ makeshift second unit regrouped and pushed its lead back to a dozen, thanks to Olynyk’s scoring. The rookie looks confident out there, hitting four of his six shots, including 2-for-3 from downtown, to score 10 points. He’s the first player in double figures and doesn’t look hesitant to shoot, as he has for much of the season. And when Phil Pressey is doing stuff like this, you know it’s going well for the Celtics.
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Rapid Reaction: Celts 111, Cavs 99

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com

Playing the second night of a back-to-back with only eight available bodies, the Boston Celtics avoided a bit of franchise infamy by snapping a 13-game road losing streak with a 111-99 triumph over the largely disinterested Cleveland Cavaliers on Saturday night at Quicken Loans Arena.

THE NITTY GRITTY
Rookie Kelly Olynyk scored 20 of his 25 points in the first half and finished 11-of-23 shooting with 12 rebounds while matching his career high in scoring over 39 minutes in a starter's role. Avery Bradley matched that 25-point output (and grabbed eight rebounds while finishing a team-best plus-31 in plus/minus), while backcourt mate Phil Pressey flirted with yet another double-double (9 points, 13 assists) over a team-high 42 minutes. Brandon Bass and Jeff Green added 19 points apiece. Dion Waiters, Kyrie Irving, and Jarrett Jack each had 15 points as the Cavs put seven players in double figures, but the game was never really close (only one lead change and the C's led by as much as 33 in the final quarter).

TURNING POINT
Back-to-back triples from Olynyk and Bradley helped Boston separate early, building a 12-point lead little more than five minutes into the first frame. Bradley and Green added late second-quarter trifectas as the Celtics' lead ballooned to 18 at the intermission. Boston was up 31 after three quarters and Cleveland only made things look close with a harmless trash-time rally to tighten up the final spread.

LOOSE BALLS
The Celtics were playing without Rajon Rondo, Jared Sullinger, Jerryd Bayless, and Kris Humphries. ... With an eight-man bench, even guys like Joel Anthony (21 minutes) and Chris Babb (18 minutes) got healthy workloads. ... Boston shot 46.7 percent from the field (42 of 90) and 40 percent beyond the 3-point arc (12 of 30). ... The Celtics turned the ball over just 11 times leading to nine points.

WHAT IT MEANS
The Celtics (25-55) have now won two straight (much to the dismay of the lottery watchers) and will -- at least for the moment -- move a half-game ahead of the Utah Jazz and own the fifth worst record in basketball with three games to play (Utah is playing Denver in a late game and could force a tie for fourth worst record with a win). With the victory, Boston avoided the longest road losing streak in franchise history (winning away from home for the first time since Feb. 10) and also ensured itself of finishing with a better winning percentage than the 2006-07 team (which owned the second worst mark in franchise history). The Celtics will take Sunday off to rest those bodies that logged heavy minutes and cross their fingers for better health when they visit Philadelphia on Monday in their final road game of the season. The 2013-14 season wraps up in Boston with a visit from the Washington Wizards on Wednesday. 

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Post by dboss Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:51 am

The highlight play of the game was the slam by Pressey off of a rebound.

I did not realize that the kid had hops like that.

The Celtics shot the ball well and managed to put up 90 shots which is above their season average of 84. They only had 9 turnovers which gave them more opportunities to score the basketball.

KO played exceptionally well in the first half but lost a little steam in the second half. Nevertheless we are seeing that he has become more aggressive at both ends and more decisive. Perhaps the game is slowing down for him.

Avery had another strong game as did Brandon Bass. Green continues to miss shots (6 for 18) Pressey was the player of the game as he recorded 13 assists and only 2 turnovers and also collected 5 rebounds while scoring 9 points. He was pretty much unstoppable running the pick and roll to perfection.

The Celtics are not going down without a fight.

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Post by Sam Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:24 pm

Your Paris correspondent can confirm that, at the news that the Celtics had won two straight, General Charles DeGualle turned over not once but twice in his grave.  People are dancing in the streets, and there haven't been such such displays of merriment since Marie Antoinette lost her head one day.

One French guy came up to me and said, "Phil Pwessey is the best PG in the weague."  I retorted that Pressey is just a backup to Rajon Rondo.  He sneared, "Wondo pways onwy swow-down ball."  I said, "Thanks for your opinion, Elmer.  And, if you see Daffy Duck in your twavels, say hi for me."  And another guy came up to him and planted something on his chest that was either the French Legion of Honor or a raw omelette.

Keep it going Celts.  Win out, and end the season with a little momentum going into the summer.  It's so gweat to be a Celtics fan!

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Post by bobheckler Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:33 pm

Didn't see this one coming, did we?  Screw the pingpong balls.  In the words of the immortal Al Davis "just win, baby, just win!".

We won both games of a back-to-back.  Gotta love that (unless you're a tank commander).

Living in California I don't get to hear the Bahstun accent that often.  Listening to Chris Herren is like getting slapped across the face with a cod.  What a heavy accent.  Well, you can't say it's inappropriate for a sports announcer for a Boston team to have a Boston accent.  He's really knowledgeable too.  I don't know who is going to get Tommy's job, they've auditioned Max, Herren and Jackie Mac so far but Herren's doing well, IMO.  Jackie Mac is really good too, but I suspect she has bigger career fish to fry.

We came out absolutely smoking hot.  Brad Stevens must have thought he died and went to heaven.  Everybody moved, everybody hit their shots.  The offense looked very coherent and crisp.  With 5 minutes gone in the first quarter we had 15 points on 63% shooting and had 5 assists on 5fgm.  I could make an argument this was the best offensive games of the year.

1.  This was Kelly's coming out party.  20 points in the first half, pretty much doing whatever he wanted.  He fouled out with 1:08 left and, to be honest, it probably was just as well.  You saw clear signs of fatigue.  It's tough, when you're used to playing under 20mpg for the season, to play 39 and on the 2nd half of a back-to-back at that.  He picked up a bunch of fouls in the 2nd half because he became a step slower and they took it to him.  He started missing his jumpshots.  For the first, say, 30 minutes of his floor time though he showed a lot, including a Dirk 2.0 wrong-footed fallaway at the buzzer.  The look on Mike Brown's face after Kelly fell back into him at the Cleveland sideline (and then took off up court) was priceless.  It was almost a full-blown SVG "stand there, with your arms crossed and your nose wrinkled up" face.  A real "I don't remember this in the scouting reports" look.  A great touch pass coming down the lane to Bass underneath highlighted his court vision.  We got a glimpse of the future last night.  Kelly can play in this league.

This, from Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe:

Olynyk had three assists Saturday night to reach 101 on the season and become only the 12th Celtics rookie, and first since Paul Pierce in 1998-99, to record 500 points, 300 rebounds, and 100 assists. The list includes Bob Cousy,Frank Ramsay, Tom Heinsohn, Dave Cowens, Larry Bird, and Antoine Walker.

Not bad for a kid who looked like a deer in headlights for the first couple of months.  Finishing strong.  That's what this season of player development is all about, finishing strong.




2.  Trade Rondo! (that was for you, Rosalie).  Ok, maybe not, but Phil did a great job last night.  Uptempo, racing up court, either penetrating and dishing or passing the ball.  It did not stick to his hands and you sure as hell didn't see him just standing up on top and pound the ball into the floor for 10 seconds.  13 assists and only 2 TOs for our little pocket rocket.  He even had 9 points on 4-8.  His defense was all over Kyrie Irving in the first half and Irving shot 3-10 in the first half and 3-15 for the game.  One of his offensive rebounds (5 total, 2 offensive) was an absolutely bee-U-tiful touch pass to Bass underneath for the slam.  The ball could have been made of molten lead and it left his hands so fast I don't think he would have even felt the heat.  I don't have a TV, so I can't say for sure, but did Sportcenter show his flying offensive rebound DUNK?

http://instagram.com/p/mtanMVJoBn

3.  Bradley with a great game on both ends too.  25 points on 9-15, 5-6 from 3 (he's 13-16 from 3 in his last 3 games), 8 rebounds and disruptive defense on Dion Waiters.  I'm concerned about Bradley's longterm viability, because of his health issues, but I love his attitude.  He wants to win and this is not the first time he has tried to put the team on his back.  Waiters ended up with 15 points on 6-15 but, like most Cleveland players, his points came late in the game when we were running on fumes.  Waiters had 0 points after one and was 3-10 for 8 points at the half and that was because of Bradley.  He was making life hard for a player who averaged 20.4ppg in his previous 10 games.  Ever since returning to the starting lineup Dion Waiters has been on one helluva scoring run but last night he got chewed up by a pitbull.  Our pitbull.

4.  Jeff Green started out the game great.  He went north-south almost exclusively and scored and/or went to the line every time.  Alonzo Gee could not handle this good Jeff Green twin.  He had 8 points in the first quarter.  He was 2-6 from the field BUT he was 4-6 from the line.  This is because he didn't finish on all the shots he was fouled on.  That's ok, take it to the rack, Jeff, and let the Hoop Gods decide whether you get the bounce.  He had 11 at the half.  In the 4th quarter, though, he turned back into a jump shooter.  I think he was tired too.  This was, after all, the 2nd game of a back-to-back.  Some good defense at the rim too by Jeff.  The way he started I thought we'd be looking at a 30+ game, he looked that overpowering.  In the Jeff Green Death Watch, he shot 6-18 (33%) this game, 38.8% over his past 10 games and is under 41% for the season.  With only 2 games left it looks like he will be spared the ignominy of shooting under 40% for the season.  Then again, two more games at 33% with high volume fgas and it could be close.

5.  Whatever magic 3-pt shooting elixir Chris Johnson drank when he first showed up has worn off.  He was 0-4 last night and is shooting 33% for the season.  He does other things of value, his energy is contagious, but he needs to forget about the 3s for a while, I think.  

6.  Jo-el from Krypton came in and put bodies on people.  He had two block, one a real "don't give up on it" on Irving.  22 minutes for someone who has barely taken his warmups off since he came here.  Ok, so he's not the second coming of Bill Walton but he is sound fundamentally and he isn't afraid to use every one of his 245#.  Personally, I'd like to see him play more these last 2 games.  Rest Hump's knee.  Showcase Anthony for next year or let him work into the system with some floor time.  Either way, we win.

7.  Babb had a largely uneventful 18 minutes.  A 3 and a very nice offensive rebound tap out to get another possession, shot and score.

8.  Steady Eddie did his thing.  Fireworks are coming this summer (at least sparklers) but I'd love to keep all our PFs.

We gave up a 41 point quarter.  Fortunately, we were up by 33 and we scored a few ourselves.  Alonzo Gee, who was overpowered by Jeff Green for most of the game, lit us up with a lot of pure energy plays.  Spencer Hawes and Tyler Zeller are just awful on defense.  The vaunted starting backcourt of the Cleveland Cavaliers was a combined 9-30 which makes Jeff Green look good.  Andy Varajao (yeah, his nickname is Andy, which makes sense since it's "Anderson" but Andy sounds too American for the Brazilian) was unusually UN-impactful.  Jarrett Jack is, in my opinion, the best back up point guard in the league.  Luol Deng was a DNP with a back injury.  That sure didn't hurt us.

90 fgas by both teams.  We ran hot for the entire game.  We had just 6 TOs after 3 and ended up with just 9.  We had 89 points after 3 on 47.8%.  High volume + efficient scoring + low turnovers + solid defense (except for the staggering-across-the-finish-line 4th quarter) = Victory.  Bottle this one.  Whenever Rondo walks it up Stevens should uncork it and wave the bottle under Rondo's nose like smelling salts.


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Post by k_j_88 Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:52 pm

BobH,

The difference in a lot of these games is between players making their shots or players missing them. Last night, the Celtics made 46 of their 90 shots.

For starters, the Cavaliers are a terrible, terrible team. They have a lot more problems going on right now than Boston does. Therefore, even a depleted Celtics roster should beat them. And they did.

Pressey was able to push the pace. Why? Because the defense did enough to bother the Cavs' offense (or maybe the Cavs offense is just plain bad). Either way, it's easier to get the offense set in motion when the defense is working it magic.

The other thing is, why should Rondo be playing so many minutes? Pressey is now a known factor and he's proven himself worthy of minutes because he can produce. Putting Pressey in would help Rondo stay fresher and continue to build (Pressey's) confidence. Rondo's not an old player, but the way players are conditioned these days, they are not ready to run for 40 minutes a night. It's very unrealistic to even have that expectation, even for the best athletes.

When pointing the finger at Rondo and only observing it from that perspective, our vision becomes obscured and we are seeing the effect without the cause. The coaching staff, in my opinion, should shoulder most of the blame. They are not managing minutes properly, namely Rondo and Pressey's. They are not utilizing Green and Sullinger properly. There are a number of problems that the coaches have not addressed, and we are able to see the residual impact of allowing those problems to continue.




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Post by beat Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:00 pm

Bob


This, from Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe:

Olynyk had three assists Saturday night to reach 101 on the season and become only the 12th Celtics rookie, and first since Paul Pierce in 1998-99, to record 500 points, 300 rebounds, and 100 assists. The list includes Bob Cousy,Frank Ramsay, Tom Heinsohn, Dave Cowens, Larry Bird, and Antoine Walker.


And Kelly did this in 68 games....

Ramsey did it in 64
Cousey 69
Tommy, Cowens, Bird, Walker, Hondo, and Pierce ALL did it in 80+ games as Rooks

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Post by bobheckler Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:28 pm

k_j_88 wrote:BobH,

The difference in a lot of these games is between players making their shots or players missing them. Last night, the Celtics made 46 of their 90 shots.  

For starters, the Cavaliers are a terrible, terrible team. They have a lot more problems going on right now than Boston does. Therefore, even a depleted Celtics roster should beat them. And they did.

Pressey was able to push the pace. Why? Because the defense did enough to bother the Cavs' offense (or maybe the Cavs offense is just plain bad). Either way, it's easier to get the offense set in motion when the defense is working it magic.

The other thing is, why should Rondo be playing so many minutes? Pressey is now a known factor and he's proven himself worthy of minutes because he can produce. Putting Pressey in would help Rondo stay fresher and continue to build (Pressey's) confidence. Rondo's not an old player, but the way players are conditioned these days, they are not ready to run for 40 minutes a night. It's very unrealistic to even have that expectation, even for the best athletes.

When pointing the finger at Rondo and only observing it from that perspective, our vision becomes obscured and we are seeing the effect without the cause. The coaching staff, in my opinion, should shoulder most of the blame. They are not managing minutes properly, namely Rondo and Pressey's. They are not utilizing Green and Sullinger properly. There are a number of problems that the coaches have not addressed, and we are able to see the residual impact of allowing those problems to continue.




KJ


KJ,

The Cavs are 5-5 in their last 10 and we are 2-8.  Their season record is better than ours also, so it's not just the last 10.  Their record against the much tougher, top-to-bottom WC is 12-18 while ours is 4-26, including a God-Awful Oh-fer on the road against the west.  I don't know why you're saying they're worse than us.  As Doc used to say "you are your record" and their record this season, both near-term and season-long, is better than ours.

As far as the coaching staff goes, I've chirped a bit about Brad Stevens from time to time too but in the end it's a hit-or-miss game and last night we hit but most of the time we don't.  

As far as Rondo goes, he's averaging 33.2mpg this season.  That's not particularly heavy minutes for a starter and we needed to get Rondo back into playing shape too and that means giving him minutes.  Furthermore, he's not playing in back-to-backs, so those 33.2mpg are over fewer games, freeing up minutes for Pressey and Bayless and we needed to look at both of them.  Pressey has started 10 games.  Not bad for an undrafted rookie.  Can you think of an undrafted rookie that started as many games as that in his rookie season?  Doc started Rondo in 25 games in his rookie season, but Rondo was not undrafted.  Pressey is playing 14.7mpg this season.  That's rotation player minutes. How many minutes do you think Pressey should have averaged this year?

How would you suggest he play Green and Sully?  I think Green should run up-and-down like a gazelle.  He is just SO much more effective in the open floor.  Do you think Brad Stevens hasn't been exhorting every player, including Jeff Green, to run more?  And Sully, how would you play him?  His 3s drive me crazy but Tommy loves them.  Would you want Sully to always be down in the paint against the mastodons?  I'd like to see Sully take a step or two in and take a 17'er over a 21'er but having him taking outside shots is critical to opening up the floor and bringing the opposing center OUT.

The Cavs are averaging 98.0ppg, good for 22nd in the league. We are averaging 96.0 and 26th. Does their offense suck? Yep, but not as bad as ours. I thought Kelly and Bass did a good defensive job on Hawes, Zeller and Varajao and mentioned that on the Game On thread. So, for a change, our bigs were better than their bigs. How many times has that happened this year?

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with the conclusion that a roster with 8 active players, 2 of which were in the D-league to start the season (and one of them hardly steps on the court at all), 2 more of whom are rookies and a 5th player who we got mid-season and has hardly played at all should beat an almost completely healthy Cavalier team. Deng was out, that was a big loss for them, and Bennett is out but he hasn't contributed worth a tinker's damn all year so no loss there. In short, they had most of their roster continuity and chemistry and we had 2 starters (Rondo and Hump) and 2 key rotation players (Sully and Bayless) out. By all rights last night should have been a disaster.

Stevens doesn't use Green and Sully correctly but he used Kelly and Anthony well last night?


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Post by k_j_88 Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:16 pm

bobheckler wrote:
KJ,

The Cavs are 5-5 in their last 10 and we are 2-8.  Their season record is better than ours also, so it's not just the last 10.  Their record against the much tougher, top-to-bottom WC is 12-18 while ours is 4-26, including a God-Awful Oh-fer on the road against the west.  I don't know why you're saying they're worse than us.  As Doc used to say "you are your record" and their record this season, both near-term and season-long, is better than ours.

As far as the coaching staff goes, I've chirped a bit about Brad Stevens from time to time too but in the end it's a hit-or-miss game and last night we hit but most of the time we don't.  

As far as Rondo goes, he's averaging 33.2mpg this season.  That's not particularly heavy minutes for a starter and we needed to get Rondo back into playing shape too and that means giving him minutes.  Furthermore, he's not playing in back-to-backs, so those 33.2mpg are over fewer games, freeing up minutes for Pressey and Bayless and we needed to look at both of them.  Pressey has started 10 games.  Not bad for an undrafted rookie.  Can you think of an undrafted rookie that started as many games as that in his rookie season?  Doc started Rondo in 25 games in his rookie season, but Rondo was not undrafted.  Pressey is playing 14.7mpg this season.  That's rotation player minutes.  How many minutes do you think Pressey should have averaged this year?

How would you suggest he play Green and Sully?  I think Green should run up-and-down like a gazelle.  He is just SO much more effective in the open floor.  Do you think Brad Stevens hasn't been exhorting every player, including Jeff Green, to run more?  And Sully, how would you play him?  His 3s drive me crazy but Tommy loves them.  Would you want Sully to always be down in the paint against the mastodons?  I'd like to see Sully take a step or two in and take a 17'er over a 21'er but having him taking outside shots is critical to opening up the floor and bringing the opposing center OUT.

The Cavs are averaging 98.0ppg, good for 22nd in the league.  We are averaging 96.0 and 26th.  Does their offense suck?  Yep, but not as bad as ours.  I thought Kelly and Bass did a good defensive job on Hawes, Zeller and Varajao and mentioned that on the Game On thread.  So, for a change, our bigs were better than their bigs.  How many times has that happened this year?

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with the conclusion that a roster with 8 active players, 2 of which were in the D-league to start the season (and one of them hardly steps on the court at all), 2 more of whom are rookies and a 5th player who we got mid-season and has hardly played at all should beat an almost completely healthy Cavalier team.  Deng was out, that was a big loss for them, and Bennett is out but he hasn't contributed worth a tinker's damn all year so no loss there.  In short, they had most of their roster continuity and chemistry and we had 2 starters (Rondo and Hump) and 2 key rotation players (Sully and Bayless) out.  By all rights last night should have been a disaster.

Stevens doesn't use Green and Sully correctly but he used Kelly and Anthony well last night?
 

bob


.

BobH,

-The Celtics have a brighter future ahead. Superior ownership and management, more assets, and they won the series this year 3-0. The Cavs are a bad team, and I suspected that the C's had a good chance of coming away with a win. I don't think its really all that surprising.

-Pressey is the kind of player that gets inconsistent minutes most of the time, and really only logs a lot of minutes when someone else is injured. I'd have him playing 17-18 minutes instead of the 14.7 mpg currently. Against Atlanta, the game that had almost everyone griping about Rondo, he logged 4 minutes, 10.7 fewer than the average you cited. I've been saying all year that Pressey should have been playing more. He's earned court time and its sad that he only gets it out of necessity, not because of confidence in his abilities. A coaching flaw here, surely.

-Rondo's knee may be healed, but he won't be 100% until next season. I still don't believe he has the stamina built all the way back to what it was pre-injury. I believe this supports my point that Rondo's minutes should have been governed a bit more this year. Pressey understands the system and can produce for this team when Rondo's sitting out.

-Here's how Green should be utilized:
  • They should run more plays and picks for him. The reason why Jeff is so inconsistent is that he's working way too hard for his shots. He takes too many threes or tough jumpers and rarely have anything going to the hoop. Jeff would be infinitely more dangerous with a mid-range game in his arsenal. Again, the coaches need to emphasize this.


-Here's how Sully should be utilized:
  • Sullinger needs to stick to the post and mid-range. He's a sub 30% 3 point shooter and that's just not his game. He's attempting to force it to become part of his game, and unfortunately Brad is enabling this fruitless endeavor (another issue I'm taking with the coaching staff). Why are Bass and Humphries and Bradley so consistently good on offense? Because they know their spots on the court and don't deviate towards what will get them in trouble. Instead of Sully taking threes, why not just Olynyk do it? I think he has the ability to become a 3 point shooter with more confidence.


-I do not understand the correlation between Kelly/Joel and Green/Sully and Brad's usage of them.



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Post by bobheckler Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:32 pm

k_j_88 wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
KJ,

The Cavs are 5-5 in their last 10 and we are 2-8.  Their season record is better than ours also, so it's not just the last 10.  Their record against the much tougher, top-to-bottom WC is 12-18 while ours is 4-26, including a God-Awful Oh-fer on the road against the west.  I don't know why you're saying they're worse than us.  As Doc used to say "you are your record" and their record this season, both near-term and season-long, is better than ours.

As far as the coaching staff goes, I've chirped a bit about Brad Stevens from time to time too but in the end it's a hit-or-miss game and last night we hit but most of the time we don't.  

As far as Rondo goes, he's averaging 33.2mpg this season.  That's not particularly heavy minutes for a starter and we needed to get Rondo back into playing shape too and that means giving him minutes.  Furthermore, he's not playing in back-to-backs, so those 33.2mpg are over fewer games, freeing up minutes for Pressey and Bayless and we needed to look at both of them.  Pressey has started 10 games.  Not bad for an undrafted rookie.  Can you think of an undrafted rookie that started as many games as that in his rookie season?  Doc started Rondo in 25 games in his rookie season, but Rondo was not undrafted.  Pressey is playing 14.7mpg this season.  That's rotation player minutes.  How many minutes do you think Pressey should have averaged this year?

How would you suggest he play Green and Sully?  I think Green should run up-and-down like a gazelle.  He is just SO much more effective in the open floor.  Do you think Brad Stevens hasn't been exhorting every player, including Jeff Green, to run more?  And Sully, how would you play him?  His 3s drive me crazy but Tommy loves them.  Would you want Sully to always be down in the paint against the mastodons?  I'd like to see Sully take a step or two in and take a 17'er over a 21'er but having him taking outside shots is critical to opening up the floor and bringing the opposing center OUT.

The Cavs are averaging 98.0ppg, good for 22nd in the league.  We are averaging 96.0 and 26th.  Does their offense suck?  Yep, but not as bad as ours.  I thought Kelly and Bass did a good defensive job on Hawes, Zeller and Varajao and mentioned that on the Game On thread.  So, for a change, our bigs were better than their bigs.  How many times has that happened this year?

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with the conclusion that a roster with 8 active players, 2 of which were in the D-league to start the season (and one of them hardly steps on the court at all), 2 more of whom are rookies and a 5th player who we got mid-season and has hardly played at all should beat an almost completely healthy Cavalier team.  Deng was out, that was a big loss for them, and Bennett is out but he hasn't contributed worth a tinker's damn all year so no loss there.  In short, they had most of their roster continuity and chemistry and we had 2 starters (Rondo and Hump) and 2 key rotation players (Sully and Bayless) out.  By all rights last night should have been a disaster.

Stevens doesn't use Green and Sully correctly but he used Kelly and Anthony well last night?
 

bob


.

BobH,

-The Celtics have a brighter future ahead. Superior ownership and management, more assets, and they won the series this year 3-0. The Cavs are a bad team, and I suspected that the C's had a good chance of coming away with a win. I don't think its really all that surprising.

-Pressey is the kind of player that gets inconsistent minutes most of the time, and really only logs a lot of minutes when someone else is injured. I'd have him playing 17-18 minutes instead of the 14.7 mpg currently. Against Atlanta, the game that had almost everyone griping about Rondo, he logged 4 minutes, 10.7 fewer than the average you cited. I've been saying all year that Pressey should have been playing more. He's earned court time and its sad that he only gets it out of necessity, not because of confidence in his abilities. A coaching flaw here, surely.

-Rondo's knee may be healed, but he won't be 100% until next season. I still don't believe he has the stamina built all the way back to what it was pre-injury. I believe this supports my point that Rondo's minutes should have been governed a bit more this year. Pressey understands the system and can produce for this team when Rondo's sitting out.

-Here's how Green should be utilized:

  • They should run more plays and picks for him. The reason why Jeff is so inconsistent is that he's working way too hard for his shots. He takes too many threes or tough jumpers and rarely have anything going to the hoop. Jeff would be infinitely more dangerous with a mid-range game in his arsenal. Again, the coaches need to emphasize this.


-Here's how Sully should be utilized:

  • Sullinger needs to stick to the post and mid-range. He's a sub 30% 3 point shooter and that's just not his game. He's attempting to force it to become part of his game, and unfortunately Brad is enabling this fruitless endeavor (another issue I'm taking with the coaching staff). Why are Bass and Humphries and Bradley so consistently good on offense? Because they know their spots on the court and don't deviate towards what will get them in trouble. Instead of Sully taking threes, why not just Olynyk do it? I think he has the ability to become a 3 point shooter with more confidence.


-I do not understand the correlation between Kelly/Joel and Green/Sully and Brad's usage of them.



KJ


KJ,

They run a lot of pindowns for Jeff Green.  A lot.  I don't think that he's that good at them, personally.  Instead of pindowns, where he pops up away from the basket for the ball, I think they should set picks that let him break to the rim instead.  I think Bayless or Bradley would be better for pindowns.  Most of Green's pindowns, it seems to me, are long mid-range shots.  I'd rather run a pindown where it's a 15'-16' shot and not a 19' one. What I don't understand is why there aren't more back picks set for him so he can take advantage of that BIG first step he has.  Let's see if Sully's man can switch and keep up with Green when Green's man has been backpicked.  Good luck with that.

I'm not a big fan of Sully taking so many 3s, I think I've said so a couple bazillion times.  That's a beef I have with the coaching staff as well.

Pressey, like most rookies, had his slump this year too.  He's played a great couple of games, I've tried to give him as much credit as I could, but it hasn't been even.  As far as the Atlanta game goes, I concur 100%.  When Rondo walks, he should sit.

I agree about the Celtics being in better position than the Cavaliers.  Better management and ownership (let's hope they don't make me eat my words by drafting a dog this year), more assets and a brighter future in the rebuilding process.  That has nothing to do with this team and this year.  This year, we stink.  I understand why we stink, and that we're in good shape to change that, but that doesn't change that.


bob


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Post by Sam Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:35 pm

Beat,

The Cooz could work miracles, but he wasn't with the Celts in '69.  His rookie season was 1950-51, when he recorded 341 assists, 474 rebounds, and 1,078 points in 69 games.

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Post by gyso Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:33 am

beat wrote:Bob


This, from Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe:

Olynyk had three assists Saturday night to reach 101 on the season and become only the 12th Celtics rookie, and first since Paul Pierce in 1998-99, to record 500 points, 300 rebounds, and 100 assists. The list includes Bob Cousy,Frank Ramsay, Tom Heinsohn, Dave Cowens, Larry Bird, and Antoine Walker.


And Kelly did this in 68 games....

Ramsey did it in 64
Cousey 69
Tommy, Cowens, Bird, Walker, Hondo, and Pierce ALL did it in 80+ games as Rooks

beat

Sam,

The Washburn stat milestone in question was (my words:),

"Who were the Celtic rookies to record 500 points, 300 rebounds, and 100 assists and then, how many games did it take for all three milestones to be reached."

(In order of finish:)
It took Ramsey 64 games to record 500/300/100.
It took Kelly 68 games to record 500/300/100.
It took Cousy 69 games to record 500/300/100.
It took Tommy, Cowens, Bird, Walker, Hondo, and Pierce ALL more than 80+ games as Rooks to record 500/300/100.

It wasn't what year the rookies accomplished this feat, but how many games did it take.  So, for what it is worth, Kelly comes in at #2, between Ramsey and the Cooz.

gyso

PS:  Or does he come in 2nd?  If Cousy reached the numbers that you posted in 69 games, then he must have reached the 500/300/100 level much sooner.  Looking at some of the names listed, I'm starting to question the whole premise of "how many games did it take for these rookies to go 500/300/100?".  I think the numbers Washburn is using for games in the comparison is actually the total games each Celtic rookie played in their first year.  In that case, the comparison is useless when you actually think about it.  In other words, "Washburnian".


Last edited by gyso on Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by beat Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:06 am

GYSO

Had not noticed Sam's reply, perhaps I should have been clearer in writing this. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

Kelly has done well, now can he continue the climb?

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Post by gyso Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:20 am

beat,

I added a PS to my last post.  I think that Washburn is mis-using stats to make a point that is not there.

I like the fact that Kelly is one of twelve rookies to reach the triple milestone, but to suggest that he did it quicker than all but one Celtic rookie in that list jump-started my age-delayed thinking process.

I've done no research, but I have to believe that some (many) on that list reached the triple milestone sooner than on the last day they played that season.

gyso

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Post by beat Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:23 am

GYSO

No doubt about that, betcha Bird did it in 50 or less. Would take too long to check it out though.

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Post by beat Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:33 am

GYSO

Using Birds final averages for his Rookie season it would have taken him only 29 games to amass the totals of 500 points 300 rebounds and 100 assists.

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Post by Sam Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:27 pm

I'm becoming so confused at this point that I'm beginning to think that Cousy actually played for the Knicks.

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