Post Game Thread - vs Cleveland Cavaliers, Vegas Summer League Playoff Game 1

[bobheckler]

http://www.nba.com/games/20160713/BOSCLE/gameinfo.html


I'm not liking Coach Jamie Young. This team fell apart under him in Vegas.

Brown cannot shoot well. He was 8-16 but 2 or 3 of them were put backs of his own misses. 8-11 from the line is ok. He hit them down the stretch, so that says something. 3 TOs, should have been 4, I don't know why he wasn't credited with it. Came on in the 2nd half after a mediocre 1st half. 25 points, 9 boards, but he has a glaring hole with his shooting.

Terry Rozier is the star of the Celtics summer league. 24 points on 7-10 and 9-9 from the line. When we were falling behind he really cranked it up.

4 TOs for Jackson. He is not going to make the team. 18 TOs for the team. A lot of them were just sloppiness. Brain dead in bound passes.

Jordan McCrae with 32. He can shoot. So can Kay Felder. They both played over 30 minutes each and took 38 of Cleveland's 74 fgas. Only Brown played over 30 minutes for the Celtics. Because Jamie Young sucks.

James Young played < 7 minutes and was useless. Same with Bentil. No defense from either.


I wouldn't be upset if Mickey was traded. Not a great summer league for him. Just not as good as we've seen. If he can be packaged for someone we need, I could live with that.

The Dancing Bear had his moments. He likes to rebound offensively more than he does defensively. He has excellent feet.

Abdel Nader looks solid. He could easily take James Young's place.


Brian Robb
@CelticsHub 4 minutes ago
James Young played zero minutes in 4th quarter, one minute in second half and seven minutes overall. His spot on roster not looking good.

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Adam Himmelsbach
Adam Himmelsbach
@AdamHimmelsbach about 39 minutes ago
Nice move by Mickey there. A little surprised the Celtics haven't tried to get him more involved in Vegas. Thought that was a goal.

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MY NOTE: Because Coach Jamie Young sucks.


https://vine.co/v/575etmOBnPH


https://vine.co/v/575K5JbJZga



Gary Washburn
@GwashburnGlobe about 1 hour ago
Jaylen Brown has to work on his FT shooting, 47 attempts so far in summer league, has hit 30. That's 63.8%. He's draws fouls. #Celtics

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Brian Robb
Brian Robb
@CelticsHub about 1 hour ago
Ainge talking like Guerschon Yabusele will be stashed overseas: "He'll play some 4 and 5 eventually when he gets to the NBA."

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MY NOTE: Reading the tea leaves here it sounds like Yabusele is NOT making the team this year.





bob

[worcester]

So many plusses for Jaylen. His ft's were better. He finished better. Even hit a 3. Shooting mechanics not too bad. He'll improve that. Great D. More athletic than any other player on the court all night. Rozier a close 2nd. Jackson, James Young, Bentil - bye bye! Jordan Mickey, we hardly knew ye. Wouldn't mind trading him for some value. Nader is A KEEPER!!!!

[arambone]

Jackson was drafted just before Kay Felder. That hurts

[arambone]

[dboss]

The summer roster really lacks balance.  I think that limits the effectiveness of the team at both ends.  

Brown is very gifted as an athlete.  That spin move on the baseline is super quick.

His shooting woes should not surprise anyone.  

Rosier will be our backup PG.  He looks pretty solid.

In most years a guy like Nader would make the team but I think he gets traded cut or ends up overseas.

Mickey has had a few moments but has been pretty average.  Offensively he gets few opportunities to score.  Last night he blocked 2 shots and altered several others.  Nice rim protection.  Too bad he has to play center.  

dboss

[bobheckler]

The summer roster really lacks balance.  I think that limits the effectiveness of the team at both ends.  

Brown is very gifted as an athlete.  That spin move on the baseline is super quick.

His shooting woes should not surprise anyone.  

Rosier will be our backup PG.  He looks pretty solid.

In most years a guy like Nader would make the team but I think he gets traded cut or ends up overseas.

Mickey has had a few moments but has been pretty average.  Offensively he gets few opportunities to score.  Last night he blocked 2 shots and altered several others.  Nice rim protection.  Too bad he has to play center.  

dboss

dboss,

I think you make a good point when you cite Mickey playing center. Our "bigs" in summer league are 6'8" Jordan Mickey and 6'10" Ben Bentil, who is soft and doesn't move his feet on defense. That's why we are getting crushed on the boards. We really have no "bigs".

Nevertheless, I am at a loss to explain the implosion from Utah to Vegas. We were undefeated in Utah, with the same unit, and shot lights out and now we're 1-3 in Vegas. We executed in Utah and kept our TOs down. In Utah we look discombobulated and have a high TO rate.

If Danny can trade James Young then Nader might have a shot. I wouldn't mind if he trades coach Jamie Young either.

Rozier's step up says something about summer league, as did Marcus Smart's ascension last year did. These are kids that are at the edge of the bubble. One year makes a helluva difference, unless your name is James Young. Then, even after 3 years, you're still lost. I tend to be fairly forgiving when it comes to the draft, I consider it a crap shoot, but man oh man was James Young a bust at #16. Strictly a one-trick pony and he has struggled to even do that trick well. Good thing he corrected himself and took Rozier at #16 too. He got grief for that pick, a lot of people thought it was a big reach, but it looks like it is really panning out well. I'm hoping he's right about Brown. Brown has a good attitude, it just needs to translate into improvement on the court.


bob


.

[cowens/oldschool]

Mickey is not tearing it up, but defensively even when hes not blocking shots, hes challenging the shooting hand enough to almost always make that shot miss. He is still not fluid on offense, I would give him a shot in the rotation after starters Horford and Amir, he can contribute, his defense can help us.

[mulcogiseng]

Hey Bob, Make up your mind! You either don't believe anything Danny sez or you believe the tea leaves. Which is it? lol Remember the game before when Danny said, in response to stashing Gerschon in europe, "That hasn't been decided yet!!!" ? Who knows what Danny is going to do. He has been consistent talking about getting another big, a stronger center I think he said. That sounded like Gerschon, Ante, and Colton, were definitely out. But with Mr. WheelerDealer Danny, one never knows for sure. What we do know for sure is that Jamie YOung sux as a summer league coach.

So far this summer league Rozier is a keeper, best player on the team, has won the back up pg position based on his play. Brown is a keeper, most explosive, biggest upside of any player on this team. Yabusele should be a keeper. He can contribute now and will improve faster if he stays and splits DLeague and end of roster time. Brown and Yabusele are raw, they need a lot of work. But their upside is big, their skill set is emerging, and they are part of the future. Not impressed with Mickey although he has some talent. What is real clear is that Danny can not draft the right big. We have had this glaring whole at center ever since StoneHands, er I mean the great Perk, was traded. The only other keeper would be Nader. He has been impressive against these rooks but would still be end of bench and Maine, no matter what.

So now we are starting to see what may be possible. What we don't know is what did Danny mean by "we aren't done yet". Let's hope this next deal is as good as the one that brought KG here, or better yet, as good as the deal that sent him away.

[cowens/oldschool]

Zizic led his Croatian league in rebounding, is described as a player with a great motor

[bobheckler]

Hey Bob, Make up your mind! You either don't believe anything Danny sez or you believe the tea leaves. Which is it? lol  Remember the game before when Danny said, in response to stashing Gerschon in europe, "That hasn't been decided yet!!!"  ?  Who knows what Danny is going to do. He has been consistent talking about getting another big, a stronger center I think he said. That sounded like Gerschon, Ante, and Colton, were definitely out. But with Mr. WheelerDealer Danny, one never knows for sure. What we do know for sure is that Jamie YOung sux as a summer league coach.

So far this summer league Rozier is a keeper, best player on the team, has won the back up pg position based on his play. Brown is a keeper, most explosive, biggest upside of any player on this team. Yabusele should be a keeper. He can contribute now and will improve faster if he stays and splits DLeague and end of roster time. Brown and Yabusele are raw, they need a lot of work. But their upside is big, their skill set is emerging, and they are part of the future. Not impressed with Mickey although he has some talent. What is real clear is that Danny can not draft the right big. We have had this glaring whole at center ever since StoneHands, er I mean the great Perk, was traded. The only other keeper would be Nader. He has been impressive against these rooks but would still be end of bench and Maine, no matter what.

So now we are starting to see what may be possible. What we don't know is what did Danny mean by "we aren't done yet". Let's hope this next deal is as good as the one that brought KG here, or better yet, as good as the deal that sent him away.

Mulcogi,

The only thing Danny says that I believe is when he says "we're not done yet". That's because Trader Danny never sleeps. When we had KG/Pierce/Allen he was still tweaking the roster. I don't think he can help himself.

I think Yabu's immediate future hinges upon what other deals Danny is working on. If he trades for Okafor then I think Yabusele goes back to France. If he trades for Noel then maybe he has a chance to stick around this year.

And you better smile when you refer to Perk as "Stonehands". Cowens will have a conniption. :-)


bob
Btw, it's great to see you posting on a more regular basis and even on the Game On thread. Sam would be very pleased.


.

[arambone]

I think Yabusele is head and shoulders better than Mickey. Mickey can't get his shot off against anybody, and can't rebound or box out NBA bigs. And his feet are slow laterally, despite being the size of a small forward.

Then on offense he has bad feel for the game, drops lots of passes, can't pass the ball very well at all, can't dribble, and doesn't have any scoring moves.

Yabusele is a real basketball player and can do all of those things, and he's 30 lbs stronger than Mickey too.

If Ainge doesn't regret giving Mickey a 4 year deal, he probably should.

It's a shame to think a guy like Mickey was the reason Zizic was stuffed overseas for a year against his will.

[bobheckler]

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/07/boston_celtics_summer_league_o_14.html



Boston Celtics summer league observations: Terry Rozier continues strong run, Jaylen Brown shows promise again



FILE: San Antonio Spurs guard Will Cummings, left, defends against Boston Celtics guard Terry Rozier (12) during the second half of an NBA summer league basketball game Thursday, July 7, 2016, in Salt Lake City. ( AP File Photo/Rick Bowmer)


Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com


on July 14, 2016 at 3:15 AM, updated July 14, 2016 at 3:39 AM





It's hard to point out the exact time when Wednesday night's summer league game evolved into an interesting basketball experience, but at some point in the second half it emerged from turnover-infested muck. Terry Rozier manufactured buckets for the Boston Celtics with a confidence that won't stop glowing. Kay Felder commanded everything for the Cleveland Cavaliers with creativity taller guys could not limit. The point guard showdown wasn't a duel, maybe, but certainly felt like one given how summer league games can go.

The Celtics lost, 98-94, and will wonder what went wrong this week. With five first-round picks from one draft or another, they should have fielded a summer league contender (which is critical in the grand scheme of things, I know). Instead, they sit at 1-3 so far in Las Vegas with just one consolation game left.

Notes from the latest disappointment follow below.

-- Rozier has been good enough – and consistent enough – that discussing his play has almost gotten too repetitive. That's OK because if making shots, developing a strong friendship with the paint, and exercising regular intelligence all qualify as boring, the Celtics wish more of their young prospects could be that way. Over the span of a couple weeks, the outside perspective of Rozier has shifted from, "He's an interesting youngster who looked alright in playoff minutes," to, "Even in a deep backcourt, that guy probably deserves a regular role – and might even turn into a key contributor off the bench."

The most promising development has been Rozier's finishing, both inside the paint and outside the arc. Even dating back to college, he has struggled to put the ball in the basket efficiently, which makes it both surprising and promising that he has been so damn good at getting shots to fall over the past couple of weeks. After making 7 of 10 field goal attempts against the Cavaliers, he's shooting 52.9 percent from the field and 43.8 percent from deep for the summer – a great sign for his future, regardless of the competition.

Earlier this week, Rozier said he told Jaylen Brown the NBA game will be perfect for him once his mind slows things down. I don't know exactly how perfect the league will be for Rozier, but it's easy to see basketball isn't moving so fast for him these days. A late stepback jumper he took (and drilled) surprised me for a couple of reasons: 1. It was a rare tough shot for him after he has created a stream of high-percentage opportunities this summer, and 2. Only a supremely confident man would try such an ambitious move. At least against this competition, I guess the second part should stop being a surprise. Rozier has been one of the better players in Las Vegas, just like he was in Utah. He's acting like it, and he should.

https://vine.co/v/575uMaPTlTT


-- Jaylen Brown has a load of things to work on, as anybody can see, but has shown a lot of promise in the last couple of games. Maybe the most impressive takeaway: the diversity of ways in which he has impacted games, even at this stage of his career, while he's so very raw. He has pressed out for steals. He has recovered for high-flying blocks. He hasn't shot the ball well or finished well, but has shown glimpses of how his offensive game could evolve.

Against the Cavaliers he did this:

https://twitter.com/Tom_NBA/status/753438283657543680


Follow
Tom Westerholm @Tom_NBA
Wooooo buddy, Jaylen Brown.
8:57 PM - 13 Jul 2016
 11 11 Retweets   24 24 likes
... which was a hop step between two defenders, followed by a finish at the rim.

And this:

https://vine.co/v/575etmOBnPH

... which involved beating one defender, spinning past another, and lofting a floater over a third at the rim.

Those are two high-level moves by a 19-year-old kid who hasn't yet developed all of his basketball senses. While still trying to figure things out, Brown has done enough helpful things (like getting to the free throw line constantly) to give a taste of what he could one day become. I don't know what that is. I don't know when it will happen. But it could be exciting watching him grow up.

https://vine.co/v/575b7eE93hb


-- With the exception of Rozier, the Celtics returners have not separated themselves this summer. The team might have hoped at least one other player – R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey or James Young – would emerge as an obvious rotation-caliber guy, but that hasn't happened (at least in my opinion). Hunter suffered a wrist injury and Mickey had a shoulder issue, so those guys have been dealing with difficult circumstances. Still, only Rozier has taken the (summer league) leap.

Hunter aggravated the wrist injury and did not return:

Follow
Boston Celtics ✔ @celtics
"Losing RJ hurt," says Jamie Young. He says Hunter (sore right wrist) has a thin frame but he understands the defensive schemes & rotations.
7:15 PM - 13 Jul 2016
 27 27 Retweets   151 151 likes


And Young was benched down the stretch after posting a whole lot of zeroes in the stat sheet:

Follow
gary washburn ✔ @GwashburnGlobe
In such a competitive game with both BOS and CLE playing its best players, James Young gets 7 min for #Celtics. Interesting.
7:07 PM - 13 Jul 2016
 14 14 Retweets   33 33 likes


It's (still) fair to wonder whether Young is fighting for a roster spot. If he is, he may not be winning the fight.

-- Abdel Nader continues to impress. Demetrius Jackson had a nice stretch early, but has still shown a shaky handle too often. Ben Bentil tried to finish like a grown-up a couple of times, but needs to improve as a defender and rebounder. Guerschon Yabusele does awesomely intriguing stuff like this:

https://vine.co/v/575qVTEEgVE


And has hands that are plenty strong, but should probably value defensive rebounds the same way he values offensive rebounds.

The Celtics end summer league play Friday night in the consolation round. They haven't won as many games in Las Vegas as they intended, but not all has been bad.



bob
MY NOTE:  RJ, and Brown, was out for at least one game in Utah and they still won.  Jamie Young is trying to blame summer league rookies for losing when every team is loaded with summer league rookies.  That's what summer league is about. How about the other two Vegas losses?


.

[dboss]

Mickey is still a much better defender than Yabu.

Mickey is still bothered by a sore shoulder and missed the UTAH games but he is still shooting .565 % 13 for 23 has 5 rebounds per game and 1.3 blocks plus he also altering a lot of shots. I guess that 18 point game Mickey had the other night did not actually happen.

Yabu can play out top because he can make 3 pointers so he gets more touches.

Yabu is averaging 7.7 PPG and is rebounding very well at 6.4 per game.

Danny is not sure what to do with him. He is still pretty young and needs more time to develop as does Mickey and several other -players. But if I was a betting man I think Mickey will get promoted to the active 12 man roster.

James Young has not disappointed me. He is playing the way i expected.

I expect a Multi-player trade before the season begins.

dboss

[RosalieTCeltics]

Me too, I find myself checking periodically to see if anything has taken place because something is going to happen. What? I do not know. I wish I could be a fly on the wall in Danny's office once he gets back here.

Who would I miss the most? Crowder, without a doubt. He has bought into the Celtics principles, and has done nothing but improve since he got here. No one ever thought he would be the player he has become, especially Cuban. He never would have let him go.

[bobheckler]

Me too, I find myself checking periodically to see if anything has taken place because something is going to happen.  What? I do not know. I wish I could be a fly on the wall in Danny's office once he gets back here.  

Who would I miss the most? Crowder, without a doubt. He has bought into the Celtics principles, and has done nothing but improve since he got here. No one ever thought he would be the player he has become, especially Cuban.  He never would have let him go.

Rosalie,

I wouldn't want to be a fly on the wall in Danny's office. He'd trade me for a praying mantis.


bob


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[mulcogiseng]

Bob, we don't need a fly on the wall we need a bug on the phone. lol I know I took my life in my hands but even tho I love Cow I wasn't back tracking my position. Someone would probably bring up one of my olde posts and "postshame' me. lol (Sam kept in touch with me, his support and friendship truly made a difference in my life and at least one time his help stopped me from acting out against myself. I wish I had had the opportunity to meet him and thank him to his face.)

arambone, I don't think Danny ever feels real regret. He just decides to move on. then does what he needs to do.

[dboss]

One of the things I have been watching is the Young/RJ Hunter competition at SG.

Hunter appears to have an edge over Young.  Hunter has been shooting the 3 ball (11/24) or .458%  Young shot an impressive 8/12 in Utah but only 1/5 in Vegas as his minutes and confidence have quickly vaporized.

Because RJ is the superior ball handling and passer he gets the nod over Young.  

The Celtics must decide on who backs up AB at the 2.  Ideally we would love to see Smart be that guy but his shooting woes may be worse than both young and Hunter.

I think there are 2 pieces that Danny wants to secure before the season stars.  He needs a BU shooting guard and he wants a big center.  He could also bring Zeller back on a one year deal if necessary but the shooting guard spot is still very much up in the air.  My best guess is that Hunter makes it to the active 12 man roster and depending on match ups Brad will use either Smart, hunter or brown to backup the 2.

Surprised we have not hear anything much about Zeller.  Danny probably will keep that spot open for as long as possible.  

I am feeling a trade is right around the corner and it may include any of the following players (Smart, Rosier, Jackson, Young, Hunter, Mickey and Yabu.

Note I did not include Crowder's name here.  Given his productivity and cheap salary his value to the team is very high.

dboss

[bobheckler]

One of the things I have been watching is the Young/RJ Hunter competition at SG.

Hunter appears to have an edge over Young.  Hunter has been shooting the 3 ball (11/24) or .458%  Young shot an impressive 8/12 in Utah but only 1/5 in Vegas as his minutes and confidence have quickly vaporized.

Because RJ is the superior ball handling and passer he gets the nod over Young.  

The Celtics must decide on who backs up AB at the 2.  Ideally we would love to see Smart be that guy but his shooting woes may be worse than both young and Hunter.

I think there are 2 pieces that Danny wants to secure before the season stars.  He needs a BU shooting guard and he wants a big center.  He could also bring Zeller back on a one year deal if necessary but the shooting guard spot is still very much up in the air.  My best guess is that Hunter makes it to the active 12 man roster and depending on match ups Brad will use either Smart, hunter or brown to backup the 2.

Surprised we have not hear anything much about Zeller.  Danny probably will keep that spot open for as long as possible.  

I am feeling a trade is right around the corner and it may include any of the following players (Smart, Rosier, Jackson, Young, Hunter, Mickey and Yabu.

Note I did not include Crowder's name here.  Given his productivity and cheap salary his value to the team is very high.

dboss

dboss,

It was mentioned on the Dallas game that, last season, Hunter from 3 = 30% while Wide open from 3 = 46%.  Danny mentioned last game that he thinks passing is RJ's best skill.  Either one of those will move 2nd year RJ Hunter in front of 4th year James Young.

AB's back up could be Rozier.  Almost identical builds, Rozier's arms are even a bit longer, and he's a MUCH better ball handler and passer.  He's not as solid a shooter as Bradley but that's why Bradley is starting and not Rozier.

Smart is the only one of those players that matter, and Smart isn't going to get it done.  Danny is big-game hunting, almost exclusively, now and you have to give up value to get value.  If we're talking Griffin or Butler that might mean Crowder.  If we're talking Westbrook we might be talking IT.  You are not going to throw the names you proposed out to GMs for anybody that would be a clear upgrade to us and not get laughed off the planet.

Something could happen within the next few weeks or it might be in February. I'd be just fine with waiting. The position of our Brooklyn pick will be clearer and there is a time pressure to fish or cut bait with the deadline.



bob


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