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Lex Nihil Novi - Parish, Bird Not Sold On "New Three"
by bobheckler Mon May 19, 2014 3:09 pm
Parish, Bird Not Sold on "New Three"
November 1, 2007
Not quite a year ago Larry Bird was asked about the challenges facing his former teammate, Danny Ainge, at a time when the local climate was beginning to bake for both men.
Bird was unsympathetic.
``Look, I'm taking some heat, too, so we're in the same boat,'' he said.
The Celtics were about to start a rare three-game winning streak with a win over Bird's Pacers, and this sudden flur-ry was one of their few bobs above water on the way to drowning with a 24-win season.
So Bird sounds bemused now.
From 24 wins and a high stake in the draft lottery to trades for Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and a huge amount of respectability, Ainge hasn't just changed paddles in mid-stream - he's reversed course on the way down a waterfall.
The result - and it sounds more strange than funny to the men who were part of the teams that carried its name - is a revival of the term ``Big Three.''
Bird, who shouldered that title with Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, really doesn't want to get into this.
``Well, I guess I can see why people are saying that when you see that on their respective teams they were the best players on the floor,'' said Bird. ``But you don't know how they'll be together.''
It goes back to Ainge's cautionary message on the first day of training camp. For all of the early love, this team has accomplished nothing.
Heading into tomorrow night's season opener against Washington at TD Banknorth Garden, the troika of Paul Pierce, Garnett and Allen have feasted on hype for the last month.
But they are still a chemistry experiment waiting to happen. No one knows this better than their ancestors.
It takes more than three
Bird's first response last month was to push away the crystal ball.
``I'm not here to rate what the Celtics are doing, but they've obviously brought in some good people,'' he said. ``In-juries play a major role. But they have a nice team - no question about it.''
Mention the dreaded ``Big Three'' phrase to Ainge, one of the many high-caliber supporting players who filled in the gaps for those stars, and the Celtics director of basketball operations practically shrieks his disgust.
``I think it's silly,'' he said. ``The way I remember it, the Big Three wasn't even called the Big Three until some time after they retired. Hey, I love our guys. But this Big Three stuff is way off base.
``What people forget is that the Big Three had great supporting players,'' said Ainge. ``Well, Dennis Johnson was a great player. Cedric Maxwell was pretty dang good with that MVP performance in the 1981 (NBA Finals).
``All that matters is that you need everyone to win,'' Ainge said. ``I don't even like discussion of the Big Three, be-cause that might undervalue the other 10 guys on the team.''
And then there were sacrifices made within the group of Bird, McHale and Parish - especially, according to Bird, from the latter.
``Robert gave up a lot to make it work,'' said Bird. ``He knew he had to give up shots to make it work, and he did without any problem. But that's what happens when you put a successful team together.
``Our second unit really pushed us in practice,'' Bird said. ``They were good. ( Bill) Walton, Scottie (Wedman) and Jerry (Sichting) were all top notch players. And all of them were willing to sacrifice to do what was best for the team.''
McHale, who initially declined an interview for this story before finally opening up in front of the media prior to an exhibition game between the Celtics and his Timberwolves in London, claims he especially enjoyed the communal aspect of those old Celtics teams.
``We just never thought about it like that,'' McHale said of the Big Three distinction. ``You don't worry much about that. We just wanted to win games. We didn't think about us being different from the other guys on the team.''
Instead, like now, the Big Three campaign fell more in the domain of the promotions people.
Bill Walton, backup center on the 1986 title team, dismissively said, ``Ah, that's just more marketing than anything else. Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen do not need to sell themselves to anyone. Their careers speak volumes without that.
``But it's going to be very special in Boston this year,'' Walton said. ``That city is going to be excited once training camp starts and the team is back.''
Some Chief concerns
The degree of this new era's success remains to be seen.
Parish, for one, is skeptical.
``My question is their supporting cast,'' he said. ``I don't see them contending for the championship because of their supporting cast. From 1980 through '87 we had a helluva bunch. Our second unit was as good as some teams' first. I just don't think that (Kendrick) Perkins and (Rajon) Rondo are on that level. That's a big fall off from the top three guys, with all due respect.
``Larry, Kevin and myself were very lucky in terms of the talent that was around us,'' said Parish. ``Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Bill Walton, Quinn Buckner, Scott Wedman. Even if you get talent like that, it's hard to keep talent like that together. I always admired that about Red (Auerbach). He always made everyone feel like they were ap-preciated the same.''
Parish has no doubt that players like Perkins, Rondo, James Posey, Eddie House, Scot Pollard and Brian Scalabrine - the crux of the Celtics' role-playing unit - all feel valuable and appreciated. He's just not sure, even by the stand-ards of more recent championship teams, that this group will do enough.
``Those Lakers teams wouldn't have done it without Rick Fox and (Robert) Horry,'' he said. ``The same goes for San Antonio. They did it by committee, they did it collectively. LA had that as a philosophy even when they had Shaq and Kobe together. Detroit had that as a philosophy.
``It's a belief, and guys have to buy into it,'' said Parish. ``Of course you need talent, but that philosophy is what completes it.
``It'll be interesting, man, but the true test for this Celtics team will be once the playoffs start. The rest of it is just a six-month test before you get down to what it is really all about.''
Teamwork's the key
Though he's heard Bird's tribute to his self-sacrifice many times before, Parish still appreciates this moldy senti-ment.
``I never should have done it, dammit,'' he roared, breaking into a laugh and, back to a placid tone, adding, ``My ego was the calmer of the three of us. That's one reason. Danny and DJ's wishes had been granted, and if I said `No,' Dennis and Danny would not have been happy.''
As such, the number of Parish plays in the old Celtics scheme may not have been much more extensive than what is designed now for Perkins.
``There weren't many plays for me,'' said Parish. ``A lot of my stats came off broken plays, or when I didn't allow the options to play out and just took the shot. In my first year-and-a-half I got all of the shots I wanted, but then things started to change, and more people came in.
``All three of us were great individually, but if each of us had been on different teams, there's no doubt we would not have been as successful,'' he said. ``One reason all three of us are Hall-of-Famers is because of the success of our team.''
That's another difference, at least for now, regarding Pierce, Garnett and Allen. They haven't experienced a lot of team-generated success.
bob
.
November 1, 2007
Not quite a year ago Larry Bird was asked about the challenges facing his former teammate, Danny Ainge, at a time when the local climate was beginning to bake for both men.
Bird was unsympathetic.
``Look, I'm taking some heat, too, so we're in the same boat,'' he said.
The Celtics were about to start a rare three-game winning streak with a win over Bird's Pacers, and this sudden flur-ry was one of their few bobs above water on the way to drowning with a 24-win season.
So Bird sounds bemused now.
From 24 wins and a high stake in the draft lottery to trades for Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and a huge amount of respectability, Ainge hasn't just changed paddles in mid-stream - he's reversed course on the way down a waterfall.
The result - and it sounds more strange than funny to the men who were part of the teams that carried its name - is a revival of the term ``Big Three.''
Bird, who shouldered that title with Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, really doesn't want to get into this.
``Well, I guess I can see why people are saying that when you see that on their respective teams they were the best players on the floor,'' said Bird. ``But you don't know how they'll be together.''
It goes back to Ainge's cautionary message on the first day of training camp. For all of the early love, this team has accomplished nothing.
Heading into tomorrow night's season opener against Washington at TD Banknorth Garden, the troika of Paul Pierce, Garnett and Allen have feasted on hype for the last month.
But they are still a chemistry experiment waiting to happen. No one knows this better than their ancestors.
It takes more than three
Bird's first response last month was to push away the crystal ball.
``I'm not here to rate what the Celtics are doing, but they've obviously brought in some good people,'' he said. ``In-juries play a major role. But they have a nice team - no question about it.''
Mention the dreaded ``Big Three'' phrase to Ainge, one of the many high-caliber supporting players who filled in the gaps for those stars, and the Celtics director of basketball operations practically shrieks his disgust.
``I think it's silly,'' he said. ``The way I remember it, the Big Three wasn't even called the Big Three until some time after they retired. Hey, I love our guys. But this Big Three stuff is way off base.
``What people forget is that the Big Three had great supporting players,'' said Ainge. ``Well, Dennis Johnson was a great player. Cedric Maxwell was pretty dang good with that MVP performance in the 1981 (NBA Finals).
``All that matters is that you need everyone to win,'' Ainge said. ``I don't even like discussion of the Big Three, be-cause that might undervalue the other 10 guys on the team.''
And then there were sacrifices made within the group of Bird, McHale and Parish - especially, according to Bird, from the latter.
``Robert gave up a lot to make it work,'' said Bird. ``He knew he had to give up shots to make it work, and he did without any problem. But that's what happens when you put a successful team together.
``Our second unit really pushed us in practice,'' Bird said. ``They were good. ( Bill) Walton, Scottie (Wedman) and Jerry (Sichting) were all top notch players. And all of them were willing to sacrifice to do what was best for the team.''
McHale, who initially declined an interview for this story before finally opening up in front of the media prior to an exhibition game between the Celtics and his Timberwolves in London, claims he especially enjoyed the communal aspect of those old Celtics teams.
``We just never thought about it like that,'' McHale said of the Big Three distinction. ``You don't worry much about that. We just wanted to win games. We didn't think about us being different from the other guys on the team.''
Instead, like now, the Big Three campaign fell more in the domain of the promotions people.
Bill Walton, backup center on the 1986 title team, dismissively said, ``Ah, that's just more marketing than anything else. Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen do not need to sell themselves to anyone. Their careers speak volumes without that.
``But it's going to be very special in Boston this year,'' Walton said. ``That city is going to be excited once training camp starts and the team is back.''
Some Chief concerns
The degree of this new era's success remains to be seen.
Parish, for one, is skeptical.
``My question is their supporting cast,'' he said. ``I don't see them contending for the championship because of their supporting cast. From 1980 through '87 we had a helluva bunch. Our second unit was as good as some teams' first. I just don't think that (Kendrick) Perkins and (Rajon) Rondo are on that level. That's a big fall off from the top three guys, with all due respect.
``Larry, Kevin and myself were very lucky in terms of the talent that was around us,'' said Parish. ``Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Bill Walton, Quinn Buckner, Scott Wedman. Even if you get talent like that, it's hard to keep talent like that together. I always admired that about Red (Auerbach). He always made everyone feel like they were ap-preciated the same.''
Parish has no doubt that players like Perkins, Rondo, James Posey, Eddie House, Scot Pollard and Brian Scalabrine - the crux of the Celtics' role-playing unit - all feel valuable and appreciated. He's just not sure, even by the stand-ards of more recent championship teams, that this group will do enough.
``Those Lakers teams wouldn't have done it without Rick Fox and (Robert) Horry,'' he said. ``The same goes for San Antonio. They did it by committee, they did it collectively. LA had that as a philosophy even when they had Shaq and Kobe together. Detroit had that as a philosophy.
``It's a belief, and guys have to buy into it,'' said Parish. ``Of course you need talent, but that philosophy is what completes it.
``It'll be interesting, man, but the true test for this Celtics team will be once the playoffs start. The rest of it is just a six-month test before you get down to what it is really all about.''
Teamwork's the key
Though he's heard Bird's tribute to his self-sacrifice many times before, Parish still appreciates this moldy senti-ment.
``I never should have done it, dammit,'' he roared, breaking into a laugh and, back to a placid tone, adding, ``My ego was the calmer of the three of us. That's one reason. Danny and DJ's wishes had been granted, and if I said `No,' Dennis and Danny would not have been happy.''
As such, the number of Parish plays in the old Celtics scheme may not have been much more extensive than what is designed now for Perkins.
``There weren't many plays for me,'' said Parish. ``A lot of my stats came off broken plays, or when I didn't allow the options to play out and just took the shot. In my first year-and-a-half I got all of the shots I wanted, but then things started to change, and more people came in.
``All three of us were great individually, but if each of us had been on different teams, there's no doubt we would not have been as successful,'' he said. ``One reason all three of us are Hall-of-Famers is because of the success of our team.''
That's another difference, at least for now, regarding Pierce, Garnett and Allen. They haven't experienced a lot of team-generated success.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62525
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Lex Nihil Novi - Parish, Bird Not Sold On "New Three"
by Sam Mon May 19, 2014 3:12 pm
Kind of dated, isn't it?
Sam
Sam
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- Posts : 22663
Join date : 2009-10-10 -
Re: Lex Nihil Novi - Parish, Bird Not Sold On "New Three"
by k_j_88 Mon May 19, 2014 5:00 pm
The "Big Three" concept is one that is rather simplistic and somewhat undermines the scope of an entire team. The recent Celtics' championship team had a great supporting cast. Without such players fulfilling those roles as beautifully as they did, is there a championship? probably not. T. Allen, Rondo, Davis, Posey, House, and the others contributed an irreplaceable effect that culminated in victory.
Look at the Miami Heat's Big 3. Their supporting guys like Allen, Andersen, Cole. Chalmers, and Haslem are a huge catalyst in the success they've had.
KJ
Look at the Miami Heat's Big 3. Their supporting guys like Allen, Andersen, Cole. Chalmers, and Haslem are a huge catalyst in the success they've had.
KJ
k_j_88- Posts : 4748
Join date : 2013-01-06
Age : 35
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