34 Years Ago Today

June 9, 1980 - Golden State traded Robert Parish and a 1980 1st round pick (3rd overall, Boston selected Kevin McHale) for two 1980 1st round picks, the 1st and the 13th.

With the #1 pick in the 1980 draft the GSW took Joe Barry Carroll and with the 13th they took Rickey Brown. We got Robert Parish, Kevin McHale and two championships out of it.

What is forgotten in all this is that the two draft picks we gave up (#1 and #13) we got the previous September, 1979 from Detroit in exchange for Bob McAdoo. So Bob McAdoo, plus Red pulling off the greatest heist since the Brinks Robbery, got us future HOFers Chief and McHale.

Not bad for a couple of days work, if you can get it.


bob


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I can't think of a trade that turned out more lopsided. I can't recall whether fans on the hundreds of Celtics chat rooms of that day castigated Danny—i mean Red—for giving up that fantastic #1 pick.

Sam

bobheckler wrote:

June 9, 1980 - Golden State traded Robert Parish and a 1980 1st round pick (3rd overall, Boston selected Kevin McHale) for two 1980 1st round picks, the 1st and the 13th.

With the #1 pick in the 1980 draft the GSW took Joe Barry Carroll and with the 13th they took Rickey Brown.  We got Robert Parish, Kevin McHale and two championships out of it.

What is forgotten in all this is that the two draft picks we gave up (#1 and #13) we got the previous September, 1979 from Detroit in exchange for Bob McAdoo.  So Bob McAdoo, plus Red pulling off the greatest heist since the Brinks Robbery, got us future HOFers Chief and McHale.

Not bad for a couple of days work, if you can get it.


bob


.

2 championships??

81, 84, 86 seems like 3 to me

beat

beat wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

June 9, 1980 - Golden State traded Robert Parish and a 1980 1st round pick (3rd overall, Boston selected Kevin McHale) for two 1980 1st round picks, the 1st and the 13th.

With the #1 pick in the 1980 draft the GSW took Joe Barry Carroll and with the 13th they took Rickey Brown.  We got Robert Parish, Kevin McHale and two championships out of it.

What is forgotten in all this is that the two draft picks we gave up (#1 and #13) we got the previous September, 1979 from Detroit in exchange for Bob McAdoo.  So Bob McAdoo, plus Red pulling off the greatest heist since the Brinks Robbery, got us future HOFers Chief and McHale.

Not bad for a couple of days work, if you can get it.


bob


.

2 championships??

81, 84, 86  seems like 3 to me

beat

beat,

Right. The rest of my fingers were occupied and my toes were in shoes, so I couldn't count that high. Thanks.

The '80s were a bit foggy to me anyway.


bob


.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.....we'll give you a pass on this one cause virtually 99% of the time you are spot on, and if need be put up pretty convincing stats to prove it.

Aside from perhaps the Bill Russell deal for an ice show, this has to be ranked as the biggest NBA Brinks Job ever. Has there ever been a team that was so completely fleeced as Golden State was here? If there is I'd like for some one to show it to me.

Joe Barry Carroll (JBC) Just barely cares if I remember correctly..... For a very solid center and perhaps a top 5 power forward of all time McHale.

Out right thievery.

beat

"Thievery" is too generous, because it implies the Warriors had something taken without their knowledge. They knew exactly what they were doing, so I'd use a more honest assessment of stupidity or ineptitude.

We never know what's going on behind the scenes, but I remember thinking at the time that it was a dumb deal. Even though their record improved after getting Joe Barry Carroll and he was a 20-point scorer for several years, he wasn't much of a rebounder or defender, and that was pretty much the final straw to destroy any hope that the championship of 1975 would repeated any time soon. Forty years later, I'm still waiting.

Outside wrote:"Thievery" is too generous, because it implies the Warriors had something taken without their knowledge. They knew exactly what they were doing, so I'd use a more honest assessment of stupidity or ineptitude.

We never know what's going on behind the scenes, but I remember thinking at the time that it was a dumb deal. Even though their record improved after getting Joe Barry Carroll and he was a 20-point scorer for several years, he wasn't much of a rebounder or defender, and that was pretty much the final straw to destroy any hope that the championship of 1975 would repeated any time soon. Forty years later, I'm still waiting.

outside,


GSW is dropping its asking price for David Lee, although I don't know "down to what?". Any thoughts on this?

Lee was always a Celtic-killer when he was with the Knicks. Like Kevin Love, he really needs a dominating defensive center to offset his defensive liabilities. GSW hoped Bogut would be that guy, but he can't stay on the court.

I liked Ezeli, in his brief rookie year appearances, and think he could be that player. I'd love for Danny to trade for him, but now that it looks like the Jordan Crawford/Marshon Brooks trade produced mixed results (Brooks went to LAL in the Steve Blake trade) I'm thinking that GSW is leery of getting "Ainged" again.



bob


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Bob,

I have mixed feelings on Lee. Like you said, he needs that defensive center. When they had their full starting five, they were a formidable unit. Bogut has had his injury issues, but it's hard to blame him for getting his rib broken, though it couldn't have come at a worse time. Compounding the situation was that Ezeli was out for the season and couldn't step in to fill that role. Jermaine O'Neal did a serviceable job until Big Baby took him out, but he's not the defensive center that Lee needs. Consequently, Lee was less effective in the playoffs while Draymond Green became the frontcourt star. But it's not Lee's fault that both Bogut and Ezeli were out. Success at this level is finding the right mix of parts, and when Lee has that defensive center, he is part of a very good mix.

If the Warriors are more willing to part with Lee, I have to think that's part of an overall plan to get Love. The problem is that I don't think they get Love without giving up Thompson, and considering how much he has improved in his brief career and that his size makes him an excellent complement to Curry, I'd hate to see them do that. What I'd really hate is for them to deal Lee but then not get Love. That would be taking a big step back.

Regarding the Crawford/Brooks trade and getting "Ainged," I don't think it was a bad trade for the Warriors. They gave up Toney Douglas, who wasn't working out as a backup guard, and they got Crawford, who was intermittently productive in the role, and Brooks, who turned into Blake, who was also intermittently productive. It wasn't a world-shakin' trade, but considering that Douglas was basically worthless, it was an upgrade from him. The net result is that I don't think that trade would make the Warriors leery of doing a trade with Boston, but I'd like to keep Ezeli right where he is.

I don't believe there's any such thing as any general managers fearing they'll get "Ainged." While I think his body of work has basically been quite positive, in light of all the scarcities he has faced, I don't think it is scaring the heck out of anyone. Maybe I'll contact Perk and seek out his feelings on the matter.

Sam

Dealing Parish for the #1 pick that turned out to be Joe Barry Carroll didn't seem so bad for Golden State at the time.

Parish had already played four years at Golden State and had the reputation that Joe Barry Carroll was to claim as his own: a slothful, lethargic, pothead.

Often by year four, what you see is what you get. Who would have predicted that The Chief would become an HOF center? Maybe it was playing with Bird. Maybe it was just growing up. Maybe it was Bill Fitch being an incredible SOB.

McHale's stock may have been hurt by his school being banned from both TV and the NCAA tourney for being caught in recruiting violations--just imagine that.

McHale was much better than just about anyone expected. Kevin Loughery was doing color one mid season broadcast in McHale's first year and proclaimed him already one of the top ten players in the league.

The deal may never have come off if Red had convinced Ralph Sampson to come out after his freshmen year.

Auerbach exploded when Sampson stayed in school telling the press that Ralph had been "hoodwinked" by bad advisors.

Red's intended prize slipped through his hands but I would say that putting together the core that was to win three titles and make five finals in the next eight years wasn't too shabby at all for an afternoon's work.

Sloop,

It's amazing to go back over Celtics history and see how many seemingly insignificant little things wound up changing the course of Celtics history. If the Royals' brass hadn't wanted an Ice Capades date;if Petit had made that shot in 1967 or if Selvy had made that shot in 1962; if Red hadn't offered Sam Jones $500 more than a teacher's salary; if Pheonix hadn't been out of time outs in 1976, if there had been no Boston heat wave in 1984; if Danny hadn't signed P.J. Brown in 2008; the list goes on and on, and I've missed far more than I've recorded.

Sam

Sam, how about Walter Brown picking Cousy's name out of a hat after the team that drafted him (The Tri-City Blackhawks?) disbanded?

Sloop,

Perfect! I'm ashamed that I missed that one....REALLY ashamed, as it was the advent of Cousy that was responsible for my beginning interest in pro basketball. The list is incomplete as is, but it would have been woefully unsatisfactory without mention of that event. Thanks for mentioning it. While we're on this subject, do you or anyone else have any other ostensibly nondescript items to add to the list? Not things like famous stolen balls or clutch shots that were considered significant at the time; but happenings that people didn't feel were extraordinary but nonetheless changed the course of Celtics history significantly.

Sam

Small one Sam but Red getting a shot at Cowens in 1970 in large part due to Florida State being on NCAA probation. Otherwise.... doubt he'd been around but the 3 picked ahead of him were pretty good too, Lanier, Rudy T, and Pistol Pete.

beat

Yeah, Beat, I'm sure there must be a lot of stories concerning influential under-the-radar happenings surrounding the draft. Thanks.

Sam

There's dumb luck like picking Cousy's name out of a hat at a dispersal draft for a roster of a suddenly defunct team and then there's luck as the residue of design.

I'd put getting Danny Ainge in the latter category.  The Celtics picked Ainge in the second round even though he was already under contract with the Bluejays.  When Ainge wanted out of baseball, Boston had the rights to him.

 Red was good at being lucky.  He did something like the Ainge scenario to get Paul Silas.  

Red drafted Charlie Scott with something like a tenth round pick in the days when there were 10th round picks even though Scott was already playing in the ABA.   When Scott signed with the Suns Red pointed out that the C's had the rights to him and if Phoenix wanted Scott they'd have to give up something.  And that was Paul Silas.

Luck as the residue of design.  I don't know where I heard that turn of words but Auerbach exemplified it.

Charlie Scott.............Boston Celtics, 7th round (4th pick, 106th overall), 1970 NBA Draft

beat

Joe Barry Carroll....just reading his name brings a smile to my face. What a fleece job Red pulled of, getting Parish and McHale. A great era of basketball.

I have always been a David Lee fan. I just don't see it as a move they will make.

That was an interesting article from Steve Bulpett. I really think he is right. Fighting for a title with other quality players can convince even the best to play here.

I cannot wait for the draft and then, July 1, so some of these moves can finally be addressed. I am sure these players wish the same.

It's interesting that this conversation illustrates the differences between what Sloop (and perhaps someone else beforehand) called the "residue of design" (perhaps aka smart or opportunistic strategy) and plain old luck. It's the luck that has always astounded me. Perhaps other teams can point to similar phenomena, but I doubt they can do it to nearly the same degree as the Celtics. Maybe there is really something special about the leprechaun.

Sam

I googled it and "Luck is the residue of design" is attributed to Branch Rickey who had a career that wasn't too shabby at all.

Branch Rickey, the Red Auerbach of baseball.

Interesting find. I think Leo Durocher was credited with being the first to say something similar but in more common terms: "The harder I work, the luckier I get."

Sam