Steve Bulpett: If No Love, Rondo Likely To Be Traded

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2014/06/celtics_waiting_game_is_labor_of_love


Celtics waiting game is labor of Love



Thursday, June 19, 2014
By:  Steve Bulpett


 
WALTHAM — The Celtics are not giving up on Kevin Love. They have thus far been rebuffed by Minnesota in their attempts to land the star forward, but, according to sources, their talks with the Timberwolves are continuing.

The Celts are hoping they can come up with a package to entice the Wolves, or that the club’s president of basketball operations/coach Flip Saunders will rethink his needs and plan as next Thursday’s NBA draft approaches.

What has become more clear over the past couple of days is that, despite talk that it might hold on to Love and take its chances that he’ll decide to stay, Minnesota almost certainly will have to deal him in the next week. One source told the Herald that Love and his agent, Jeff Schwartz, told the Timberwolves flatly that, if he is not traded sooner, he will opt out of his contract after the coming season and leave as an unrestricted free agent. It didn’t matter that Saunders was taking over the coaching reins; Love is leaving.

For those teams lining up for a shot at him, the question then became what kind of return the Timberwolves are looking for, even knowing full well it cannot precisely match what they are losing.

What those teams learned is that Minnesota wants a player of some reasonable substance as an immediate benefit in a deal that won’t fully bear its fruit until any draft picks it receives are selected and developed.

If the Celtics cannot get Love, they are planning to continue with the longer and more methodical rebuilding process, a process that would likely see Rajon Rondo traded. (An NBA source said they would also have a taker for Jeff Green if they chose to move him.)

But the Celts are still efforting a trade for Love to accelerate their improvement. The Timberwolves, meanwhile, would seem to be fated for the slower approach because, rather than being able to acquire a player of Love’s stature, they are losing one. Sources say Minnesota is still hoping it can work on a deal to net the talented Klay Thompson from Golden State, but the Wolves may be hindered in their roster development by a tough contract or two they would have to take back.

If Saunders takes a more long-term approach to his task, the Celtics could get back with the lead pack in the race.

So far, according to a source, they have offered the Nos. 6 and 17 picks in this year’s draft, Kelly Olynyk and one of their own future No. 1 picks. They also own two more first-rounders from the Nets and one from the Clippers after this season, and the Celts are said to be certainly willing to discuss different combinations of their assets.

But, and this is important to note, they and the Timberwolves had, as of yesterday, yet to engage in anything resembling a true back-and-forth negotiation.

The fact the process with Love is still open to change has left the Celtics in a position where they are preparing to go in one of two divergent directions.

“You have all sorts of scenarios that if you have this type of team, this is the type of player that we’d want, and if we have a different type of team, we’re looking for a different type of player,” said director of player personnel Austin Ainge.

“If we have a lot better team, we’re looking for veteran players ready to win. If we’re staying young, we’re looking at younger players. You know, we have lists and orders and ranks, and they change a little bit based on where you are in your development cycle.”

In that regard, the Celts are keeping up on the Kevin Love cycle with the Timberwolves and the other pursuers. There is strong evidence that the process is evolving, and there already has been some head scratching among the participants. But even with that, Ainge expects things to be a bit more calm on the inside than with the reporting on the subject.

“I’ll give you a for instance,” Austin said. “Last year in the Doc (Rivers) and Clippers talk, there was a tweet or a story hourly. You know, ‘Talks are now this,’ and, ‘Talks are now that.’ And we would talk with them once every three or four days.

“So the news cycle was going way faster than the actual talks. Trade talks, draft rankings, all of these things, are going way more methodically and way slower than the news.”

In the end, the Celtics are bent on making some news, which is why they’re continuing to look for a way to satisfy the Timberwolves’ needs.

“This is a big summer for us,” said Ainge, “We’ve got to find a way to get us better some way.”



bob
MY NOTE: Is this just "another Rondo trade rumor"? Bulpett's pretty good. Also, he says that Danny already has a trade partner for Jeff Green. I read today that a league-source verified that.

Oh Brother.



.

Then Ainge *must* have a replacement for Rondo already in mind.



KJ

I'm really curious as to what the Celtics would gain by trading Rajon Rondo.  I've had it with trading away players mainly for financial reasons while virtually guaranteeing a tedious, risky, non-guaranteed, slow rebuilding process.  I've never seen a dollar bill thread a cross-court bounce pass to a cutter.

Of course there are teams that would be happy to take Rondo off the Celtics' hands.  There are teams that would be happy to take Jeff Green off the Celtics' hands. And the Empire State Building is tall.  So what?  What do the Celtics get out of it?

Sam

sam wrote:I'm really curious as to what the Celtics would gain by trading Rajon Rondo.  I've had it with trading away players mainly for financial reasons while virtually guaranteeing a tedious, risky, non-guaranteed, slow rebuilding process.  I've never seen a dollar bill thread a cross-court bounce pass to a cutter.

Of course there are teams that would be happy to take Rondo off the Celtics' hands.  There are teams that would be happy to take Jeff Green off the Celtics' hands. And the Empire State Building is tall.  So what?  What do the Celtics get out of it?

Sam 

Sam

I think the conjecture being fabricated is quite interesting. If the Celtics don't get Player A then Rondo walks/is traded? How? Who says that Ainge only has one plan of action?

Ainge knows what he has with Rondo. Rondo is a respected PG in this league and he can attract other players to Boston. If Rondo leaves, the Celtics rebuild will be extended for God knows how long.



KJ

I'll just add the link to the other thread that discusses this here.

https://samcelt.forumotion.net/t7026-another-way-to-rebuild

a couple things, at this point no one has come to Boston because Rondo is here. There may be player that want to or there may not be.

there are more than one ways to skin a rabbit. Ainge can't get so stuck on making one move that it actually cost too much and sets the team the back.

finally we were a 25 win team last year. Not really that much farther to fall is there?

all in one way or the other Danny.

kdp59 wrote:
a couple things, at this point no one has come to Boston because Rondo is here. There may be player that want to or there may not be.

Carmelo has already expressed some desire to play with Rondo. I don't know about Kevin Love, but I'm willing to guess that he wouldn't mind playing alongside Rondo as well.

The entire point is that star players can attract other star players because they can visualize a common goal. Just because it hasn't happened does not mean that it can't. I'm sure there's a bunch of star players that would want a guy like Rondo with his talent and credentials to be running the point for them. I bet Indiana and Miami wish they had viable point guards right about now.

kdp59 wrote:
there are more than one ways to skin a rabbit. Ainge can't get so stuck on making one move that it actually cost too much and sets the team the back.

Since when does Danny only do one-part transitions?    I'm sure Ainge is looking at a multitude of options and potential transactions. He would not be a good GM if he didn't.

kdp59 wrote:
finally we were a 25 win team last year. Not really that much farther to fall is there?

all in one way or the other Danny.

25 wins with a ton of close losses.

With better rim protection, which would also mean better overall team defense, and more chemistry, this team could have won a lot of those single-digit contests. How many times did we see this team actually take leads only to lose them down the stretch?


KJ

No way a Rondo trade is precipitated by not getting Love. No way. Danny is smarter than that. Trade Rondo for KD, ok. Otherwise it is not going to happen, and OKC is not giving up the MVP for Rondo. Stupid rumors. Just stupid. I prefer the old Fleetwood Mac album if I'm going to be listening to Rumors.

There's no way Stevens is going to be able to run his motion offense if Rondo is manning the point. Personally, I'd trade Rondo for a bag of peanuts. (I bit of hyperbole, I admit, but I'm so tired of Ronda hogging the ball)

Berlin-T

Hell,I'd let him walk for nothing in return, just to get the 13mil cap space.

swish

There are tons of players out there that would love to play with Rondo.

You know why? Because they know that if they get open a pass will be delivered to them usually at the right time and space for them to score the basketball.

As Pat Riley said "Get a grip"

dboss

dboss

The individual assist- The most useless individual stat in basketball.

swish

swish wrote:The individual assist- The most useless individual stat in basketball.

swish

I can understand that you are a Rondo hater. Nothing that you say is completed true or completely false.

dboss

dboss

My comment has nothing to do with Rondo and everything to do with the value that is placed on the assist. 13 mil for a non scoring guard. That's what you expect to pay top notch scorers.

swish

swish wrote:dboss

My comment has nothing to do with Rondo and everything to do with the value that is placed on the assist. 13 mil for a non scoring guard. That's what you expect to pay top notch scorers.

swish

Rondo, in 2013-2014 (an injury shortened season, not fully 100% and without shooters like Pierce, Garnett or Allen to create numbers for him), averaged/36mpg.  He is not even the #3 scoring option on the team and isn't expected to be.

12.6ppg, 5.9rpg, 10.6apg, 1.4spg, 3.6TOpg (for an assist to turnover ratio of 2.94 assists/TO).

That means that Rondo, without taking into account additional points from 3s or ftm being awarded because of his pass to a shooter, was directly or indirectly responsible for 33.8ppg.  And we didn't have a lot of shooters on the team last year.

In 2012-2013 (another injury shortened season, but WITH Pierce and Garnett), /36mpg:

13.2ppg, 5.4rpg, 10.6apg, 1.8spg, 3.7TOpg (for an assist to turnover ratio of 2.86)

He was responsible for 34.4ppg, only .6ppg more than the next year when he was less than 100% and without shooters.


Russell Westbrook, the #2 scoring option on OKC, /36mpg last year:

25.5ppg, 6.7rpg, 6.7apg, 8.1apg, 2.2spg, 4.5TOpg (1.8 assist to turnover ratio)

Responsible for 41.7 points.  


Chris Paul, perhaps the #1 scoring option on LAC, /36mpg

19.6ppg, 4.4rpg, 11.0apg, 2.6spg, 2.4TOpg (4.58)

Responsible for 41.6 points.


So, if you look at these top pgs, Westbrook is a score first point guard, CP3 is quite balanced and Rondo is a little weak on scoring.  Westbrook will make $15.8M next year, Chris Paul will make $20M and Rondo will make $13M.


Now, let's just look at top-notch scorers, regardless of their positions:

Kevin Durant, $20M, /36mpg, #1 scoring option

29.9mpg, 6.9rpg, 5.1apg, 1.2spg, 3.3TOpg (1.55)

Responsible for 40.1ppg


LeBron James, $20.5M, /36mpg.  #1 scoring option, #1 ballhandler.

25.9ppg, 6.6rpg, 6.1apg, 1.5spg, 3.3TOpg (1.84)

Responsible for 38.1 points.



My thoughts?  Scoring is not that big of a deal.  LeBron is the best player on the planet and yet he scores about the same as Westbrook but has roughly the same assists-per-game.  Who would you rather have?  His numbers aren't that far off from Rondo's either.  If you're focused on scoring Westbrook beats every other PG, pretty handily too.  Would you rather have Westbrook or Paul?  It's not even close to being that simple.

And none of this stuff takes into account defense.  LeBron has been named All-NBA Defense 1st team 5x and 2nd team 1x.  Rondo has been named First Team 2x and Second Team 2x.  How many times has uber-scorer Russell Westbrook been named?  Zero.

For my money, Rondo is a more complete player than Westbrook (a lot cheaper too).  Westbrook only plays one side of the ball.  Chris Paul is better than Rondo, but he's a lot more too.

Scorers often get paid the big money because their achievements are easily seen, quantified and appreciated.  They put butts in the seats.  That doesn't mean they are more valuable.  If they were, then Kevin Martin would be making more than $6.8M.



bob



.

swish wrote:dboss

My comment has nothing to do with Rondo and everything to do with the value that is placed on the assist. 13 mil for a non scoring guard. That's what you expect to pay top notch scorers.

swish

Swish

with all due respect you are being disingenuous

adjective lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous ; insincere:

You stated that you would let Rondo walk for nothing if you could save $13 million in cap space. I suppose it does not matter to you that last year before Rondo was hurt he was rated as the 9th best player in the NBA. I figure that there has to be some value there. And you know that is true yet you go overboard. There is NO value in comments like.

You infer that the only thing Rondo does is get assists. You know that is not true so why say something that is not true when you know it is not true?

You state in no uncertain terms the value of an assist. Do you have some sort of formula for helping the rest of us place a specific value on an assist?

dboss

Throwing three's out the window for a minute,

If I make a pass that ends up helping a teammate score it's 2 points

If I make the basket it's 2 points.

If I keep shooting and making baskets it's 2 points each time.

If I keep shooting will my teammates even work to get open or even run down the floor on offense?


A point guards FIRST responsibility IMHP is to set up his teammates for good shots, there is a balance to passing and shooting but I just believe a pass first point is MORE important than a shoot first one. And Rondo is the best PASS first guard in the game.

beat

I believe a point guard's first responsibility is to be the orchestra leader out there.

• That may involve making sure guys are in the right spot
• It may involve assisting or even making the pass before the pass
• t may involve penetrating at the right moment
• It may involve shooting
• It may involve properly motivating teammates
• It may involve planning, adjusting and executing strategies as coach on the floor
• It may involve expediting a transition offense
• It may involve setting the halfcourt offense
• It may involve resetting the halfcourt offense is it's sputtering
• It may involve making sure the halfcourt offense is properly spread
• It may involve encouraging more halfcourt passing or crisper halfcourt passing
• It may involve stimulating more player movement
• It may involve much more—both obvious and subtle
• It may involve getting into the halfcourt offense before the defense is set

Yes, to some extent, many of these things are also responsibilities of all players on the floor.  But it is the PG who bears the ultimate responsibility.

Sam

dboss

Since the 1990-91 season the point guards on the championship teams have averaged 4.1 assist per game while being ranked an average 39.9 best in the league. To be rated the player must have played a minimum of 1100 minutes which results in being a top 7th or 8th player on a roster.

swish

Berlin-T wrote:There's no way Stevens is going to be able to run his motion offense if Rondo is manning the point. Personally, I'd trade Rondo for a bag of peanuts. (I bit of hyperbole, I admit, but I'm so tired of Ronda hogging the ball)

You know what else, it's impossible to run the motion offense if the other 4 players aren't moving.

Do me a favor and watch how the San Antonio Spurs run their motion offense compared to the Celtics. You'll see that Popovich has his team moving around constantly, which makes it difficult for other teams to defend them (like Miami), meanwhile, Steven's guys don't do it for any extended period of time.

If you don't like Rondo, that's fine. But at least be fair in referencing how the motion offense should be run.


KJ

Swish,

How were the individual "best" ratings set?  What factors were considered?  How many assists did the championship TEAMS average since 1990, and how do those numbers compare with those of the losing finals TEAMS?  Why stop at the 90s?  Why not include the 80s, when Magic was playing throughout the decade?

What is useless is to imply that the point guard must dominate the assist category in order for his TEAM to be any good.  There are such things as TEAMS out there, although I know some people don't believe it's important for the Celtics to become a team unit any time soon.  But none of that makes the assists statistic any less relevant as a measure of how the ball is being shared by a TEAM.

Sam

k_j_88 wrote:

Berlin-T wrote:There's no way Stevens is going to be able to run his motion offense if Rondo is manning the point. Personally, I'd trade Rondo for a bag of peanuts. (I bit of hyperbole, I admit, but I'm so tired of Ronda hogging the ball)

You know what else, it's impossible to run the motion offense if the other 4 players aren't moving.

Do me a favor and watch how the San Antonio Spurs run their motion offense compared to the Celtics. You'll see that Popovich has his team moving around constantly, which makes it difficult for other teams to defend them (like Miami), meanwhile, Steven's guys don't do it for any extended period of time.

If you don't like Rondo, that's fine. But at least be fair in referencing how the motion offense should be run.


KJ

They seemed to move around pretty well when Pressey was manning the point, no?

Berlin-T wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:

Berlin-T wrote:There's no way Stevens is going to be able to run his motion offense if Rondo is manning the point. Personally, I'd trade Rondo for a bag of peanuts. (I bit of hyperbole, I admit, but I'm so tired of Ronda hogging the ball)

You know what else, it's impossible to run the motion offense if the other 4 players aren't moving.

Do me a favor and watch how the San Antonio Spurs run their motion offense compared to the Celtics. You'll see that Popovich has his team moving around constantly, which makes it difficult for other teams to defend them (like Miami), meanwhile, Steven's guys don't do it for any extended period of time.

If you don't like Rondo, that's fine. But at least be fair in referencing how the motion offense should be run.


KJ

They seemed to move around pretty well when Pressey was manning the point, no?

berlin,

Except for his shooting. If he's not throwing up 1000 shots a day this summer, cut him, because he's not doing what, I am sure, Brad told him to work on this summer.

Pressey's a natural point guard, with very good courtvision and an uptempo style, but he MUST be able to hit the open shot to survive in the league.



bob



.

Here's hoping Rondo is somehow working on running a team in the halfcourt.  Over the years, he has seemed rather ordinary other than penetrating for his own baskets.  (Big men can pass out to the perimeter, for Pete's sake.)  Specifically, he needs to get rid of the ball FAR earlier in possessions, because it's ball movement that triggers player movement, and it's player movement that triggers open looks.

Sam

I'll bet he and Brad have had serious talks about that very issue.