Now THAT was a screw job...

Haha, so true Beat. People were going crazy. I can say that I totally understand the feeling the LA fans had, but glad no one was stupid enough to act on it. I think the fans wanted that win more than the team did.

After Doc was ejected and it was clear no substitutions were going to be made in the 4th, someone behind me yelled towards the bench that they hoped they had oxygen tanks ready for the players.

...as for my two cents....I didn't see the game last night...blacked out for me, so I can't comment on the specific call but IF the C's are being screwed by a particular group of refs...There is a remedy. Take it to the league office. However, bad calls get made all the time, in all games and I'm betting without being able to go back and replay a lot of calls and overturning them, by either the refs or some "neutral" party (which the refs are supposed to be), human beings will continue to make calls we don't agree with, in such a subjective event.
Assuming bad calls (or calls we don't agree with) are a part of the game, the question becomes...Are they random events or is there a pattern that is aimed at some teams? If it's just random, what else can you do, than to move on and try and get the league to prepare the refs to do a better job.
Question: Does the league office go over every game with the refs who worked it and debrief them?...Does anyone know? With as much money as there is being thrown around, one would naively think that some kind of quality control takes place....

LA

Here is the highlight of the game and the Davis flagrant foul
gotta get by the commercial then I believe the foul is at about the 1:15 plus mark.

http://www.nba.com/video/games/celtics/2010/01/11/0020900546_ATL_BOS_recap.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt2

beat

Officials in the NBA have greater power than in any other sport to influence the outcome of games. Two or three quick fouls to Dwight Howard in any game of the 2009 NBA Finals essentially determined it would be LA's win.

Former referee Tim Donaghy claimed that Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and Sacramento Kings was fixed by two referees, acting on orders from the league office, so as to extend the series to seven games. In that infamous Game 6, LA attempted 18 more free throws than the Kings in the fourth quarter.

Donaghy also mentioned Game 7 of the 2000 Western Conference Finals between the Lakers and the Trail Blazers. The Lakers, down by 13 at the start of the fourth quarter, outscored Portland 31–13 the rest of the way and won the game and the series. The Lakers shot 37 free throws in that game compared to 16 for the Blazers.

Here's an excerpt from Donaghy's book. Does it really sound like he made all this up?

TIM DONAGHY: "To have a little fun at the expense of the worst troublemakers, the referees working the game would sometimes make a modest friendly wager amongst themselves: first ref to give one of the bad boys a technical foul wouldn't have to tip the ball boy that night. In the NBA, ball boys set up the referees' locker room and keep it stocked with food and beer for the postgame meal. We usually ran the kid ragged with a variety of personal requests and then slipped him a $20 bill. Technically, the winner of the bet won twice — he didn't have to pay the kid and he got to call a T on Mr. Foul-Mouthed Big-Shot Du Jour.

"After the opening tip, it was hilarious as the three of us immediately focused our full attention on the intended victim, waiting for something, anything, to justify a technical foul. If the guy so much as looked at one of us and mumbled, we rang him up. Later in the referees' locker room, we would down a couple of brews, eat some chicken wings, and laugh like hell.

"We had another variation of this gag simply referred to as the "first foul of the game" bet. While still in the locker room before tip-off, we would make a wager on which of us would call the game's first foul. That referee would either have to pay the ball boy or pick up the dinner tab for the other two referees. Sometimes, the ante would be $50 a guy. Like the technical foul bet, it was hilarious — only this time we were testing each other's nerves to see who had the guts to hold out the longest before calling a personal foul. There were occasions when we would hold back for two or three minutes — an eternity in an NBA game — before blowing the whistle. It didn't matter if bodies were flying all over the place; no fouls were called because no one wanted to lose the bet.

"We played this little game during the regular season and summer league. After a game, all three refs would gather around the VCR and watch a replay of the game. Early in the contest, the announcers would say, "Holy cow! They're really letting them play tonight!" If they only knew...

"During one particular summer game, Duke Callahan, Mark Wunderlich, and I made it to the three-minute mark in the first quarter without calling a foul. We were running up and down the court, laughing our asses off as the players got hammered with no whistles. The players were exhausted from the nonstop running when Callahan finally called the first foul because Mikki Moore of the New Jersey Nets literally tackled an opposing player right in front of him. Too bad for Callahan — he lost the bet.

"I became so good at this game that if an obvious foul was committed right in front of me, I would call a travel or a three-second violation instead. Those violations are not personal fouls, so I was still in the running to win the bet. The players would look at me with disbelief on their faces as if to say, "What the hell was that?""

Spike

I think ALL major pro sports have about the same capacity to have their game officials greatly influence games. Hankys for holding in football thrown at dritical times (or not). Hockey penalties, a home plate ump with a tough strike zone. Of course there are some more "confirmed" issues with the NBA perhaps then the others but I'm willing to bet the tuck rule that favorored the Pats certainly had concerns to the losing team.

beat

beat

I was just echoing Red and Cooz about how basketball refs have the most potential ability to affect the game.

In basketball, the example is that of a couple of quick fouls on one team's key player that can often make all the difference.

I don't see any ref having a weapon like that in football or baseball. In hockey, well, the players do carry big sticks in their hands.

This is a result of my disgust at cheating in sports overall in the world today. I have extreme suspicion of the basketball czar, Mr. Stupid, who was accused of fixing an NBA Finals Game 6 his rookie year (1984) by none other than Larry Bird himself.

Here's where my paranoid thinking is leading: Last year, when big NY banks weren't lending money even to each other, they floated a huge loan to the NBA, money which Stern then was allowed to lend out himself to needy franchises. The big NY banks didn't ask where the money was going or how viable some of the NBA franchises were, they simply gave Stern the money, no questions asked.

Now, suppose you ran a large bank/investment house and there was absolutely nowhere in this economy you could get a decent return on your investment. Along comes this smooth-talking basketball commissioner/lawyer/stooge who says, "Have I got a deal for you? My guys can fix any game you want and no one will know the difference. Hell, they're already doing it for fun.'

Gambling at that level? Ya think? How do you spell 'derivatives'?

s

beat wrote:LA

Here is the highlight of the game and the Davis flagrant foul
gotta get by the commercial then I believe the foul is at about the 1:15 plus mark.

http://www.nba.com/video/games/celtics/2010/01/11/0020900546_ATL_BOS_recap.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt2

beat

Thanks beat,
Hate to say it,but I might have called a flagrant,too....Hard to say Baby was really pulling him down or not...but if he was reaching around and pulling him down...He didn't need to do that to stop the shot.....Baby blew it plain and simple. Dumb play, then as Doc says, if someone makes you behave from anger...he owns you. Doc was owned..as are the Celtics at this point by Atlanta. But there is one more game, and the C's can get one back. If they can focus.

games six of sacto and lakes was the worst example of crooked officiating I ever saw. a part of me died watching that game and much of the joy I felt about the nba left me forever. I realized it was fixed. And obvious. Not much better than wrestling in the worst cases.

still tryin to get it back.

KellyGreen17 wrote:Haha, so true Beat. People were going crazy. I can say that I totally understand the feeling the LA fans had, but glad no one was stupid enough to act on it. I think the fans wanted that win more than the team did.

After Doc was ejected and it was clear no substitutions were going to be made in the 4th, someone behind me yelled towards the bench that they hoped they had oxygen tanks ready for the players.

I was at this game, and I wanted to throw just about anything I could pick up. In a way knowing that the Laker fans stooped to that low kept me from doing it. I don't remember what exactly happened on one play and I would have loved to see a replay, but the Atlanta player had the ball in the back court went to pass it, jumped, lost the ball, landed, regained the ball and passed it to another Atlanta player who hit a three. The calls really didn't go the Celtics way.

Parquet,

I recall that play. Clearly an up-and-down. I don't personally care about all this ref stuff, but that was one play that stood out in my recollection. I had the impression that the refs were so surprised by how blatant that one was that they couldn't believe their eyes. I couldn't believe more fans didn't catch it either.

I'm glad people didn't throw things. That would be totally bush league and self-absorbed. Sorry you and Kelly couldn't have seen a win.

Sam

Time to aim at the next game.

Lets take it to the Nets!

Go Celtics!

Swede,

Great attitude!

Sam

In general being angry after a game is good when you take the time to learn something from whatever you are angry about.

When you are angry at the refs you gotta let it go pretty quick because short of rioting at NBA HQ there aint much one can do about it.

Losses will come, just make sure you come out of them better prepared for the next time around.

Swede,

I've said so often that the key is for a team to concentrate on (1) not letting the other team get close enough so that a few bad calls matter and (2) not letting extraneous factors, including the refs, undermine their focus. I respect others' right to complain about the refs, but that stuff's pretty much a waste of good energy in my estimation. I believe in trying (as much as possible) to approach the game with an attitude similar to those of the players; and you can bet the players are not sitting around discussing the refs.

Sam

The flagrant being rescinded offers a degree of vindication. I rioted the NBA HQ with a tersely written email which promptly was deleted by their spam filter I am sure. haha. The Celtics did let the refs get into their heads a bit, but under the circumstances I don't know if they could have done better. They needed an evenly called game to win.
It wasn't so much this loss that bothered me as the bigger picture. The NBA can train and hold officials accountable more effectively than they do. They sacrifice transparency and accountability for the illusion of infallibility.
The Celtics should use the Nets game as a template. Get up by about 40 and there won't be much the refs can do to mess it up.

LACELTFAN wrote:

beat wrote:LA

Here is the highlight of the game and the Davis flagrant foul
gotta get by the commercial then I believe the foul is at about the 1:15 plus mark.

http://www.nba.com/video/games/celtics/2010/01/11/0020900546_ATL_BOS_recap.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt2

beat

Thanks beat,
Hate to say it,but I might have called a flagrant,too....Hard to say Baby was really pulling him down or not...but if he was reaching around and pulling him down...He didn't need to do that to stop the shot.....Baby blew it plain and simple. Dumb play, then as Doc says, if someone makes you behave from anger...he owns you. Doc was owned..as are the Celtics at this point by Atlanta. But there is one more game, and the C's can get one back. If they can focus.

LACeltfan - Don't know if you heard but the league rescinded the tech on Baby and admitted they made a mistake on the call by labeling it a flagrant (Doc, however, got a stiff fine for his outburst), as noted in late-night edition of the Globe:

NOTES: Rivers was fined $25,000 by the NBA for an argument with
officials that led to two quick technicals and an ejection in a loss to
Atlanta on Monday. Rivers said the league called him and told him the
ruling on the court was incorrect. "They admit that the ... call was
wrong," Rivers said. "Of all the fines I've ever had, this is by far
the most disappointing. I just don't get this one. I watched a couple
of coaches last week run out on the floor and no fine. I get fined for
being right."