Report: Cavs offer Wiggins & Bennett for Love

Wow..... just wow.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/reports-cavs-offering-wiggins-love-172918203--nba.html


Report: Cavs offer Wiggins, Bennett for Love

By The Sports Xchange
July 18, 2014 3:28 PM
The SportsXchange


The Cleveland Cavaliers are offering No. 1 overall draft pick Andrew Wiggins and 2013 top pick Anthony Bennett to acquire All-Star power forward Kevin Love from the Minnesota Timberwolves, ESPN reported Friday night.

The Cavaliers had been reluctant to trade Wiggins but reportedly have recently become open to it. Bennett also is included in the talks, and the Cavs are open to offering a 2015 first-round pick, according to ESPN.

Cleveland and Minnesota have been in trade talks since the Cavaliers signed superstar forward LeBron James a week ago.

Yahoo Sports reported that James had contacted Love since the Cavaliers decided to include Wiggins in a possible deal.

However, new Cavaliers coach David Blatt continues to state that the team will not trade Wiggins.

"That's why they call them rumors," Blatt said after losing to the Houston Rockets in their final Las Vegas Summer League game on Thursday night. "Sooner or later, in one's career, you're going have to deal with it. So if he has to deal with it now, then so be it. It's the summer league. He's learning everything as he goes along."

Wiggins had 21 points and five rebounds in the 96-90 loss. A team official said Wiggins was not available to the media because of a "league obligation." He was signing autographs after the game.

"I don't talk to him about any of that stuff, because, for me, it doesn't mean anything," Blatt said. "At least not right now. You know, that's the beauty of these games: There's always something to talk about."

The Cavaliers are in negotiations with Wiggins' representatives to sign the 19-year-old. If the team signs Wiggins, it has to wait 30 days before trading him.

The Timberwolves are also in talks with the Golden State Warriors about a trade involving Love. The Warriors have offered All-Star forward David Lee and forward Harrison Barnes, but they have been unwilling to include shooting guard Klay Thompson.

Love, who is a three-time All-Star, will become a free agent after next season and has told the Timberwolves he will not re-sign with them.

Love is reportedly interested in signing a long-term deal with the Cavaliers to play alongside James.

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In my personal opinion, I would NOT make this move. Kevin Love is a good player, but he's not a transformative player. What has he done to elevate Minnesota. Wiggins is going to be a great player, a once in every 10 years kind of player.

And by the way, isn't James contacting Love considered tampering since Love is still under contract? Guess Lebron can do whatever the hell he wants.



KJ

Is it illegal for two players, from different teams , to speak to each other ?

swish

swish wrote:Is it illegal for two players, from different teams , to speak to each other ?

swish

Players on other teams can contact other players.

I think Wiggins has the potential to be a star but he has a lot to prove, compared to the way he played at Kansas. If I am Cleveland, I would make this trade despite Wiggins potential.
Love, Lebron and Kyrie would be scary. It will be interesting to see how LeBron will adjust without having the ball in his hands on most possessions.

tjmakz wrote:

swish wrote:Is it illegal for two players, from different teams , to speak to each other ?

swish

Players on other teams can contact other players.

I think Wiggins has the potential to be a star but he has a lot to prove, compared to the way he played at Kansas. If I am Cleveland, I would make this trade despite Wiggins potential.
Love, Lebron and Kyrie would be scary. It will be interesting to see how LeBron will adjust without having the ball in his hands on most possessions.

It seems like a show of fear to me. A fear of Lebron opting to pursue free agency again.

The other thing is, picking up Kevin Love is not without it's own pitfalls. For starters, it ties up cap space. They would be looking at 3 max contract players at once, and I'm not sure if Cleveland has the capacity for those kinds of expenditures as a small market team. You need a deep team to have a chance at winning the title, which is hard to accomplish without the necessary cap space. Second, there is no guarantees Kevin Love will transform that team. He's been a very good player in Minnesota, but not good enough to elevate them into playoff contention.

I say keep Wiggins because over the long term, it's the better decision. They'd have a great wing player for years , whereas Lebron has some time left but he is getting older. Plus, Lebron only signed a 2 year deal, not exactly the biggest vote of confidence. It shows me that he's very likely to leave again.




KJ

Great players sometimes feel threaten when the next guy comes along that could dim his limelight.

A few years back we kept hearing about some kid in HS named Andrew Wigging.  It was prognosticated that he was the next Lebron James and at the very least a can't miss prospect with real big time upside.  

Wiggins's value has been diminished by Lebron and for Lebron.  And if reports are correct, Wiggins could be shipped out before wearing a regular season Cav's Jersey.  One word from Lebron and this deal would not go down.  As much as Lebron wants to win he certainly does not want the next him playing on the same team.  

If this trade goes down, it's merits can only be measured in a historical context.  If getting Love also gets the Cavs to win their 1st title there will be no argument that the trade worked out good.   I think anything less than a title would be looked at as a failure.

Wiggins can set up his own kingdom in MN and perhaps one day he will be an elite player in this league.  The careers of both Bennett and Wiggins and whatever comes of the 2015 1st round pick will serve as a measuring stick for the wisdom of trading for Kevin Love.

I am on the record as being against this trade.  It will take a Cleveland championship to put me in a neutral mindset unless Wiggins/Bennett disappoint.

dboss

K_J_ Two elite scorers, one of whom doubles as an elite rebounder plus a budding young star, Irving, and in my opinion the future is now. Like you say- Who knows where James will be 3 years from now.

swish

They certainly know what they're doing much better than I ever could, but…

I think it's a mistake to deal Wiggins for Love.

Wiggins isn't going to take years to get into the NBA groove; he might only need a season or less.  Wiggins and Irving in the backcourt, with James and any two stiffs at forward?  Dangerous.  With Varejao and Thompson joining James in the front-court?  Maybe championship right there.  Several good depth players already on the roster too.

James is only what, 29?  The future may be now, but it's also probably solid for the next five years if James sticks around.  Wiggins may be more than enough, when combined with the rest of the roster, to keep James around.

bobheckler wrote:

swish wrote:Is it illegal for two players, from different teams , to speak to each other ?

swish

swish,

It didn't stop DWade from talking to LeBron and Bosh 4 years ago.

It also didn't stop DWade from going to Chicago to "talk to the Bulls about signing with them" and then take their intentions and abilities (they were angling to land LeBron too) back to Riley.

It's just illegal for management to do it.  Is that a loophole?  Absolutely, I just don't know how to close it.



bob



.

bob

I asked that question just to give kj reason to think about it. Obviously players socialize throughout the year so restricting their conversations is just about impossible. Further more it's reasonable to understand players having a preference as to which players or teams they would like to join. Just one of those things that you have to live with.

swish

NYCelt

I give the edge to Love for the first 2 years and if James sticks around and Wiggins develops into an elite player, then the next 3 years are also a win-win situation for Cleveland. Lets hope that the Celts are faced with a similar dilemma in the near future.

swish

swish wrote:
bob

I asked that question just to give kj reason to think about it. Obviously players socialize throughout the year so restricting their conversations is just about impossible. Further more it's reasonable to understand players having a preference as to which players or teams they would like to join. Just one of those things that you have to live with.

swish

I was under the impression that players still under contract had some limitations in terms of discussing heading to another team. Perhaps I am wrong, but it does seem like tampering to me. I know it's not feasible to entirely eliminate that contact, but that doesn't change the meaning of tampering, if it is in fact tampering.

swish wrote:K_J_ Two elite scorers, one of whom doubles as an elite rebounder plus a budding young star, Irving, and in my opinion the future is now. Like you say- Who knows where James will be 3 years from now.

swish

Kevin Love, an adept scorer, is also a marginal defensive player. In my personal observations, it's very difficult to win championships without bigs that can play defense.


KJ

Love can only play the 4. Lebron plays half his time at the 4. Love limits the Cavs flexibility. Long term this helps the Celts...especially since Wiggins could turn into the real deal himself.

swish wrote:NYCelt

I give the edge to Love for the first 2 years and if James sticks around and Wiggins develops into an elite player,  then the next 3 years are also a win-win situation for Cleveland.  Lets hope that the Celts are faced with a similar dilemma in the near future.

swish

Swish,

True; it would be nice to have to make this type of tough choice!

Regards

I think it's a mistake for Cleveland; here's hoping they do it. Hawk

Either way, Cleveland is in a great position for a championship run.
It might not happen, but they have a lot of talent.
Bennett looked much better in summer league and is in much better shape.
Irving/Wiggins/LeBron/Bennett or Thompson/Varajeo is a potentially great starting line up.

I don't see how Love can be criticized for not making winners out of the Wolves singlehandedly. Who was surrounding and coaching him?

Sam

Ditto for KG.

sam wrote:I don't see how Love can be criticized for not making winners out of the Wolves singlehandedly.  Who was surrounding and coaching him?

Sam

Sam--Right on the money!

Many, many teams have had an elite player, but because of a weak supporting cast, have failed to contend for a championship.

swish

Here's the latest update on the Cleveland - Love deal. Considering that it is the Cavs, this trade makes the most sense, and it's what I would have expected of David Griffin all along:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/breaking-cavaliers-agree-to-trade-andrew-wiggins-l,36500/

Understanding that the current theory is that teams need 3 superstars to win, what happened to the lessons taught by San Antonio? Their big 3 are not all that dominating. Ginobli, Parker and Duncan were just role players on that team. San Antonio won thru teamwork. There was mucho passing, mucho fats-breaking, and mucho team defense. Was it too much to hope that NBA people would take that philosophy to heart? I guess you need to have superstars.

I hope Brad doesn't feel that way. His Butler teams weren't filled with stars. I'll take a bunch of role players playing good old-fashioned Dr. James Naismith basketball any day. Even if they don't win it all, they'll be fun to watch.

swish wrote:

sam wrote:I don't see how Love can be criticized for not making winners out of the Wolves singlehandedly.  Who was surrounding and coaching him?

Sam

Sam--Right on the money!

Many, many teams have had an elite player, but because of a weak supporting cast, have failed to contend for a championship.

swish

Contending for a championship doesn't necessarily = playoff berth. Each year, there are teams that get in the playoffs that have zero chance of winning it all. Kevin Love has yet to get into the playoffs.

I'm not saying Kevin Love is not a good player to have on a team, but I don't see him as the type of player that can impose a gravitational force on the game, as say Lebron or Durant can.

To my earliest point, I would just rather develop Wiggins, but that's my perspective.



KJ

KJ,

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what "impose a gravitational force on a team" means. Did Lebron ever impose his will to the extent of singlehandedly carrying his team to a championship? How many times has Kevin Durant imposed his will so strongly that the Thunder have won a championship?

Sorry, not buying this criticism of Love. Not that it really matters in Celticland because I guess the odds are stacked pretty highly against his landing in green.

Sam

sam wrote:KJ,

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what "impose a gravitational force on a team" means.  Did Lebron ever impose his will to the extent of singlehandedly carrying his team to a championship?  How many times has Kevin Durant imposed his will so strongly that the Thunder have won a championship?

Sorry, not buying this criticism of Love.  Not that it really matters in Celticland because I guess the odds are stacked pretty highly against his landing in green.

Sam

Sam,

I was posing my stance in reference to reaching playoffs. I wouldn't deem it fair to place a championship victory as the benchmark for this simply because so few teams have done it.

In regards to the likes of Lebron and Durant, sure, no one does it alone, but they are the primary engines behind their teams. Without Lebron, Cleveland doesn't beat Detroit to eventually face the Spurs the title in 2007. Kevin had help in Westbrook and Harden when OKC reached the finals, but I would still give KD the nod over Love in terms of his residual effect on his team is greater than that of Kevin Love.




KJ

KJ

My use of the word contender was perhaps a little too vague. I should have stated "serious contender", which to me generally only includes teams that make the playoffs while playing .600% ball or better.

swish

KJ,

My points would apply to making the playoffs just as much as to contending for a championship. As far as I'm concerned, it's all about the team; and assigning a particular degree of value or lack of value to an individual player is risky at best.

Sam