What's wrong?
+3
Sam
NYCelt
LACELTFAN
7 posters
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What's wrong?
Here's a loaded question about the Celtics if there ever was one...
Okay, so what's wrong with this team? Can anyone put it into a brief description. Is it one major problem or is it a series of little things that combined, spell: LOSS? Is the team past the chance to win it all because they have aged? Was getting an older RWallace a mistake?
In the standings, just a hand full of points separate the world championship Lakers from a Boston team that people are increasingly writing off as over the hill. Is it 1969 or 1988 ? ....or neither....
Okay, so what's wrong with this team? Can anyone put it into a brief description. Is it one major problem or is it a series of little things that combined, spell: LOSS? Is the team past the chance to win it all because they have aged? Was getting an older RWallace a mistake?
In the standings, just a hand full of points separate the world championship Lakers from a Boston team that people are increasingly writing off as over the hill. Is it 1969 or 1988 ? ....or neither....
LACELTFAN- Posts : 796
Join date : 2009-10-12
Re: What's wrong?
LA,
I'm short on time for a response, but here's an interesting ESPN clip on the question and more.
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4883285&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
Video and article.
I'm short on time for a response, but here's an interesting ESPN clip on the question and more.
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4883285&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
Video and article.
NYCelt- Posts : 10794
Join date : 2009-10-12
Re: What's wrong?
This has pretty much been rehashed. But it's pretty simple. The team began well, got out of sync through major discontinuities, which it has been combatting ever since. And this was basically a retooled bench that would usually take up to a season to coalesce; and, instead, it was part of the discontinuities. It's very basic and caused many problems that people are now confusing with the root of the issue, when being out of sync is really the root of the issue. Simple.
The Celtics started the season with nearly a full roster, minus only Baby. Despite a subpar KG who was very slowly regaining form, they got out to a great start—something like 20-5.
As for the bench, Sheed started like a house afire with great outside shooting, but that proved to be somewhat of a false sense of security, as the bench's outside shooting became sporadic at best. Then, after showing some promise as a penetrator to complement Eddie's outside game, Daniels went down has remained down. Then KG went down. Then Pierce went down. Then Wallace went down. Then KG came back. Then KG went down again. I believe Perk lost some time too, but I don't recall the sequence, and I'm not about to bother looking it up.
In short, both the starting unit and the bench have been like games of hide and seek for much of the season as people have shuttled in and out. And Sheed, whose assimilation to an anchor role for the bench was a very important priority in this season's plan, has shuttled back and forth with the starters out of necessity. That is not discontinuity. It is DISCONTINUITY. Prolonged discontinuity begets prolonged periods of being out of sync. Simple. Who knows whether or not Wallace was the right acquisition. He's got an incomplete grade because there's been no continuity in his role with the team.
Being out of sync causes major struggles and extended frustration. Major struggles and extended frustration cause lack of adrenalin and loss of energy. Lack of adrenalin and loss of energy lead to disappointing fades. Disappointing fades lead to disillusionment. Disillusionment exacerbates lack of energy. Shin bone connected to the knee bone. It's simple. I wouldn't be shocked if the ongoing disillusionment and frustration had even led to some internal finger-pointing. These people are human beings!
Last year's team had injury problems but not such great discontinuity problems. At least when KG was out, the rest of the roster was reasonably stable so that the team could adapt to a fallback rotation featuring a more prominent role involving Davis. The last time this team had such a plethora of injuries was in the 24-win season when they lost something like 18 straight. Duh! Simple!
People tend to equate an injury only with the loss of the injured player. But an injury affects other players too, because they have to adjust in various ways—including the ways in which they interact on the floor. This year's team has been forced to adjust in so many ways on so many occasions that it has had very little time even to develop a rough approximation of being in sync.
The good news is that, given a high level of savvy, sufficient abilities, and reasonably good health, what got out of sync can get back into sync. That's what the remainder of this season will hopefully be all about.
It's simple! Not easy, but simple!
Sam
The Celtics started the season with nearly a full roster, minus only Baby. Despite a subpar KG who was very slowly regaining form, they got out to a great start—something like 20-5.
As for the bench, Sheed started like a house afire with great outside shooting, but that proved to be somewhat of a false sense of security, as the bench's outside shooting became sporadic at best. Then, after showing some promise as a penetrator to complement Eddie's outside game, Daniels went down has remained down. Then KG went down. Then Pierce went down. Then Wallace went down. Then KG came back. Then KG went down again. I believe Perk lost some time too, but I don't recall the sequence, and I'm not about to bother looking it up.
In short, both the starting unit and the bench have been like games of hide and seek for much of the season as people have shuttled in and out. And Sheed, whose assimilation to an anchor role for the bench was a very important priority in this season's plan, has shuttled back and forth with the starters out of necessity. That is not discontinuity. It is DISCONTINUITY. Prolonged discontinuity begets prolonged periods of being out of sync. Simple. Who knows whether or not Wallace was the right acquisition. He's got an incomplete grade because there's been no continuity in his role with the team.
Being out of sync causes major struggles and extended frustration. Major struggles and extended frustration cause lack of adrenalin and loss of energy. Lack of adrenalin and loss of energy lead to disappointing fades. Disappointing fades lead to disillusionment. Disillusionment exacerbates lack of energy. Shin bone connected to the knee bone. It's simple. I wouldn't be shocked if the ongoing disillusionment and frustration had even led to some internal finger-pointing. These people are human beings!
Last year's team had injury problems but not such great discontinuity problems. At least when KG was out, the rest of the roster was reasonably stable so that the team could adapt to a fallback rotation featuring a more prominent role involving Davis. The last time this team had such a plethora of injuries was in the 24-win season when they lost something like 18 straight. Duh! Simple!
People tend to equate an injury only with the loss of the injured player. But an injury affects other players too, because they have to adjust in various ways—including the ways in which they interact on the floor. This year's team has been forced to adjust in so many ways on so many occasions that it has had very little time even to develop a rough approximation of being in sync.
The good news is that, given a high level of savvy, sufficient abilities, and reasonably good health, what got out of sync can get back into sync. That's what the remainder of this season will hopefully be all about.
It's simple! Not easy, but simple!
Sam
Re: What's wrong?
laceltfan,
Based upon my watching of the Celts, which is less than many of you since I live on the left coast, IMO I'd say the issues come down to a few things:
1. Injuries have undermined cohesiveness. Daniels was supposed to be our backup point guard. He has been out. KG has been out and is just starting to look like his old self again. Tony is finally back, but he's been ineffective from the beginning of the season until a week or so ago. Davis has been out but is not yet back to being effective. That's a lot of turmoil and disruption to unit cohesiveness.
2. Selfish ME-balling offense in the 4th quarter. The Lakers game was a great example, but not the only one. We saw it in the Orlando game too, for another. The Celts are playing great TEAM offense for most of the game but then they start going one-on-one, mostly with Pierce. I watched Rondo toy with every defender and every defense the Lakers through at him and then watch him stand around in the last few minutes of the game as the 3 Amigos tried to take over and take it home. Maybe Sam and others saw it differently, but that's what I saw. That also might be the source of Rondo's irritation and expression of frustration at "selfish play".
3. Slumps. That's putting what we're seeing from Sheed and Shelden, both of whom started out the season like all-stars. Our bench which, on paper, was the best in the league at the start of the season, now doesn't look so good.
4. Live by the 3, die by the 3. Sheed is outside too much and Shelden and Davis are pretty ineffective inside and it seems like KG likes to stay outside too. So, other than Perk, who's our consistent banger?
5. Lack of energy and focus for extended periods of play. It occurs to me this is most noticeable at the beginning of the game and the 2nd half. They come out onto the floor and aren't ready to do a beat down. Say what you will about Bryant, he is ferocious and focused all the time. Our Celts had that in '08, but don't seem to have it now. At least not for 4 quarters and, unfortunately, that's how long games last.
There are things we're doing well. Sam's "Glimmer" thread airs them. This thread is, by design, intended to be more critical.
My 2c,
bob
Based upon my watching of the Celts, which is less than many of you since I live on the left coast, IMO I'd say the issues come down to a few things:
1. Injuries have undermined cohesiveness. Daniels was supposed to be our backup point guard. He has been out. KG has been out and is just starting to look like his old self again. Tony is finally back, but he's been ineffective from the beginning of the season until a week or so ago. Davis has been out but is not yet back to being effective. That's a lot of turmoil and disruption to unit cohesiveness.
2. Selfish ME-balling offense in the 4th quarter. The Lakers game was a great example, but not the only one. We saw it in the Orlando game too, for another. The Celts are playing great TEAM offense for most of the game but then they start going one-on-one, mostly with Pierce. I watched Rondo toy with every defender and every defense the Lakers through at him and then watch him stand around in the last few minutes of the game as the 3 Amigos tried to take over and take it home. Maybe Sam and others saw it differently, but that's what I saw. That also might be the source of Rondo's irritation and expression of frustration at "selfish play".
3. Slumps. That's putting what we're seeing from Sheed and Shelden, both of whom started out the season like all-stars. Our bench which, on paper, was the best in the league at the start of the season, now doesn't look so good.
4. Live by the 3, die by the 3. Sheed is outside too much and Shelden and Davis are pretty ineffective inside and it seems like KG likes to stay outside too. So, other than Perk, who's our consistent banger?
5. Lack of energy and focus for extended periods of play. It occurs to me this is most noticeable at the beginning of the game and the 2nd half. They come out onto the floor and aren't ready to do a beat down. Say what you will about Bryant, he is ferocious and focused all the time. Our Celts had that in '08, but don't seem to have it now. At least not for 4 quarters and, unfortunately, that's how long games last.
There are things we're doing well. Sam's "Glimmer" thread airs them. This thread is, by design, intended to be more critical.
My 2c,
bob
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: What's wrong?
We all hashed out the decision the Celtics made not resigning Leon. Granted he is still not playing. However....the player brought in to take his place isn't playing either. Now, they say, Leon is ready, practicing daily, and will return.
His game is what we miss tremendously. Just standing under the boards, getting offensive rebounds, putting them back in, and working hard at the defensive end. I know the question was "how could we sign two small "big"
men for this team. Damn, I really miss his game though. It is hard to pinpoint the real reason for the way the Celtics have been playing.
I have issue with Paul Pierce taking the ball inbounds with seconds left, and just standing there dribbling. Shaking everyone else off, he lets everyone know what he is thinking. He is going to drive to the basket. Well, this play just isn't working for him this year! How many times have we seen him do this. Get the ball in Rondo's hands, don't stand around waiting to kill the clock, just execute the play and score. They have lost how many one and two point games???? Let the kid do his job, never mind Pierce. Get him in position to rebound if the play doesn't work, or get ready to get a quick pass and score!
Why don't they just listen to me!!! God know's I am screaming this every game!
His game is what we miss tremendously. Just standing under the boards, getting offensive rebounds, putting them back in, and working hard at the defensive end. I know the question was "how could we sign two small "big"
men for this team. Damn, I really miss his game though. It is hard to pinpoint the real reason for the way the Celtics have been playing.
I have issue with Paul Pierce taking the ball inbounds with seconds left, and just standing there dribbling. Shaking everyone else off, he lets everyone know what he is thinking. He is going to drive to the basket. Well, this play just isn't working for him this year! How many times have we seen him do this. Get the ball in Rondo's hands, don't stand around waiting to kill the clock, just execute the play and score. They have lost how many one and two point games???? Let the kid do his job, never mind Pierce. Get him in position to rebound if the play doesn't work, or get ready to get a quick pass and score!
Why don't they just listen to me!!! God know's I am screaming this every game!
RosalieTCeltics- Posts : 41267
Join date : 2009-10-17
Age : 77
Re: What's wrong?
Paul Pierce is having the worst rebounding year of his career, 4.7 RPG this year versus 6.2 RPG for his career. The reason is because he isn't boxing out. In the Laker game he was shown up by a bench player, Shannon Whatsisname. who swooped in for a beautiful offensive rebound while Paul jogged down the court unaware. His man can crash the boards because he doesn't have to worry about getting back on defense. Paul doesn't run the floor, it seems, ever. With a point guard as good as Rondo, that's an unforgivable sin. Selfishness, laziness, call it what you will.
Even regarding this problem Rondo is pointing to, Paul's basically saying, "What problem?" That's because he's getting his way while Doc caves in to him. What happened to the Doc who benched Paul in his first season as coach?
Convincing Doc to put him back in the Wizards game when he could barely run was selfish in the extreme. Doc apparently has given up his coaching duties to Paul. No wonder Rondo is pissed.
Sorry to say it, but Paul is not Larry Bird. He looked awesome in '08, probably reached his peak as a pro in the Cleveland series. Back then, it was all about integrating the 3 superstars into a cohesive unit while letting each one do his thing. Now it should be about team. Superstars get hurt but the games still have to be played. Iso-Paul doesn't cut it anymore, except maybe once in a while when nothing else is working.
One other thing: Tony is in a contract year and his effort and enthusiasm are making the captain look slow and lazy.
Even regarding this problem Rondo is pointing to, Paul's basically saying, "What problem?" That's because he's getting his way while Doc caves in to him. What happened to the Doc who benched Paul in his first season as coach?
Convincing Doc to put him back in the Wizards game when he could barely run was selfish in the extreme. Doc apparently has given up his coaching duties to Paul. No wonder Rondo is pissed.
Sorry to say it, but Paul is not Larry Bird. He looked awesome in '08, probably reached his peak as a pro in the Cleveland series. Back then, it was all about integrating the 3 superstars into a cohesive unit while letting each one do his thing. Now it should be about team. Superstars get hurt but the games still have to be played. Iso-Paul doesn't cut it anymore, except maybe once in a while when nothing else is working.
One other thing: Tony is in a contract year and his effort and enthusiasm are making the captain look slow and lazy.
spike- Posts : 125
Join date : 2009-10-17
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