Which now-eligible player should C's trade for?

CSNE

Welcome to "Jump Ball", our segment on CSNNE's Celtics Pregame Live presented by Ace Ticket and CSNNE.com, where Kyle Draper and A. Sherrod Blakely take opposite sides on a Celtics-related topic.

Tonight's question: NBA players who signed free agent contracts this offseason are eligible to be traded today. Which player should Danny Ainge look into acquiring?

Argument A:

We knew the Celtics would take their lumps early but at 7-14 they've underachieved up to this point. If Danny Ainge keeps things status quo I'm afraid the Celtics will find themselves with another wasted season.

While a blockbuster trade is unlikely there are a couple of players, who are now eligible to be traded, Ainge should take a look at dealing for.

Carmelo Anthony is the big fish who could be had. According to a recent report in the New York Post Anthony would be open to waiving his no trade clause. This is the point where the Carmelo haters scream, "WE DON'T WANT HIM HERE." "HE'S A BALL HOG." "HE'S NOT A WINNER." Puh-leeeze. If I'm Ainge I move hell and high water to get Carmelo to Boston. Anybody not named Rajon Rondo is on the table as far as I'm concerned. Anthony is a dynamic scorer who would fit perfectly with Rondo.

When the Celtics offense bogs down, like it has many times this season, Anthony is that player who can bail you out by making a tough shot. The Celtics currently don't have that kind of player. Plus outside of maybe a season or two in Denver, Anthony's teams have not been that talented. Pair him with another All-Star caliber player (Rondo), and you have two-thirds of a big three.

Getting Anthony would be a dream scenario and let's be honest, also a long shot. But a player who may be more attainable is Spencer Hawes of the Clippers.

He signed a 4 year, $22.65 million dollar contract with Los Angeles this offseason. He's averaging 17 minutes a game as DeAndre Jordan's backup, but he probably would get more minutes in a Celtics uniform.

He would fill an immediate need and would succeed in Brad Stevens' system. He can stretch the floor as evidenced by his 41.6% three-point shooting a season ago. He is limited on the defensive end but he's a legit 7'1. Imagine a center rotation of Tyler Zeller and Hawes. It would definitely be an upgrade over the situation the Celtics currently find themselves in.

ARGUMENT B:

If you look closely at this Boston Celtics roster, it's full of nice guys who are solid NBA players.

As much as they could use more talent, they would also benefit from having at least one player who brings a more competitive edge to the game that can wear on opponents. That's why Charlotte's Lance Stephenson would be an ideal addition who is available beginning today which is when free agents signed this summer can be traded.

And make no mistake about it: the Hornets are very open to moving him.

Any deal by Boston for Stephenson should not include Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green or Jared Sullinger.

By incorporating Stephenson with those three, it would put him in a familiar spot as the third and sometimes fourth option, a role he thrived in near the end of his time with the Indiana Pacers.

With the Hornets, they saw him as a No. 2 option which by all accounts has been a failure this far.

And his contract, a 2-year, $18 million deal, is very team-friendly.

Of course Stephenson is known to rub some folks the wrong way, including teammates. Former Celtics coach Doc Rivers used to call them "instigators" and swore by their presence being invaluable to a contender's chances at success.

There is no doubt that Stephenson fits the bill of being an instigator (blowing in LeBron's ear ring a bell?) which by its nature comes with some degree of risk.

But his contract plus the competitive edginess he would bring along with his versatility, are more than enough reasons for Ainge to be willing to take a chance on him.

112288

man I was laughing more than those jokers were on the video when I watched that last night.

those guys sure are funny!

Doesn't really mean anything, and how one knows this I'm not sure, but it seems to fit in with this thread. From the department of 'for what it's worth'...

Adrian Wojnarowski: Among most active teams on phones: (in no order): Celtics, Pistons, Suns, Timberwolves, Hornets, Clippers, Pacers, Nets, Nuggets, Rockets. Twitter @WojYahooNBA

Rumors tagsBoston Celtics, Charlotte Hornets, Denver Nuggets, Detroit Pistons, Houston Rockets, Indiana Pacers, Los Angeles Clippers, Minnesota Timberwolves, Brooklyn Nets, Phoenix Suns, Trade  
- See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors/tag/boston_celtics#sthash.dNq9v4QN.dpuf

Re: Carmelo Anthony.

He gives you offense like few others can, and would be incredible being set up by Rondo...however...

Going on 31, playing little in the way of defense and taking up cap space with a big contract makes him a tough fit at this time.  Some are concerned about Rondo being too old by the time we have the horses we need to contend again; Carmelo may be retired.

Carmelo and Lance are two of the worst cancers in the NBA. NO THANKS.

If the Celtics are active on the phones, my feeling is they are sellers vs buyers.

mrkleen,

I don't think there has ever been anything concrete that points to Carmelo being a clubhouse cancer.  I'm not sure where any negative accounts about him really come from.  If anything he's often been described as relatively quiet and a good teammate.  On a personal level, he's done a lot of good with the money he makes, and is among the biggest contributors to Syracuse U.  He's given back a ton to Red Hook and the general area around Brooklyn, and although Denver doesn't have really run-down areas by comparison to NY, Chicago and LA, he did good things there around Colfax and Five Points.  

If anything, from reports out of Denver and NY, he's usually represented his team and league well.  Maybe the worst thing you can say about him is he isn't likely to pass once he gets the ball, but that often fits the profile and mentality behind a high volume scorer.

I think the lack of defense, age and contract make him a problem for a team like the Celtics, I wouldn't want to bring him here now either.  There are other teams who simply need scoring where he might fit well.

Regards

You mean other than the fact that he threatened to fight Tim Hardaway last week and had run ins with Landry Fields, Iman Shumpert and Jeremy Tyler last season

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/11/carmelo-anthony-has-history-of-not-getting-along-with-younger-teammates/

Or that George Karl said he consistently came to practice and games with a bad attitude.

“I think Melo respected me and I think he respects Mike Woodson. But I don’t think Melo understands that coming to work with the best attitude every single day is a precious commodity when you’re the best player. That’s not the same thing as playing hard. That’s bringing the total package, 100 percent focused on all the little things.

“Melo doesn’t get an A in that department...it is, in a sense, the A.A.U. mind-set: We worked hard yesterday, maybe we can take a day off today. That’s why he really needs that player — the point guard or someone who takes on that role — to be the bridge from the coach to him.”

Karl praised the impact of Chauncey Billups during the Denver Nuggets' run to the Western Conference Finals in 2009.

“He had that championship mentality from Detroit that my team didn’t have,” Karl said. “It’s hard to define what that actually is, but I think it’s a combination of things: the leadership, the calming of a locker room, the peer pressure of making sure the right stuff is being talked about.”

In how that related to Anthony, Karl added, “He’s got to have that mental toughness around him for when he gets a little selfish.”

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/232218/George-Karl-Carmelo-Anthony-Still-Doesnt-Understand-Responsibilities-Of-Being-Best-Player

On a young team, Melo is NOT the right piece to add.

I think that whole George Karl thing proved to be overblown, and part of the overall frustration from a team that underperformed given its potential. Lots of finger pointing went on there from all parties. The other stuff is purely intramural; stuff happens during the course of a season. Easy to find positive articles too.

NYCelt wrote:Easy to find positive articles too.

I would be interested to read a few that talk about what a good teammate he is/ was

mrkleen09 wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Easy to find positive articles too.

I would be interested to read a few that talk about what a good teammate he is/ was

I'm sure a Google search will get you there.

So you wanted me to prove to you that Melo was considered a bad teammate by many, which I did. But now when the question is turned back on you, to prove your point - this is your answer?

Gotcha.

Since I don't claim to be an expert on Carmelo Anthony, I googled "Carmelo Anthony good teammate," and all that showed up were articles on his being a contentious teammate. The most pointed one was at: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/11/carmelo-anthony-has-history-of-not-getting-along-with-younger-teammates/

But I believe personalities can be dealt with by the right coach. The thing that bothers me about him is that any team he's on seems to become what I'd call "Carmelo-centric." I don't like scenarios that revolve around one player as a pervasive influence on the team's performance. I don't care for the style of Anthony, Lebron, or Kobe as possible (though unlikely) acquisitions for the Celtics. I'm a fan of egalitarian play, and I've even been concerned, at times, that the team was too "Rondo-centric."

By egalitarian play, I don't mean that all players should be regarded as equals in defining roles. There will always be stars and role players. But I do object when the style of the team is slanted toward the talents of one player as opposed to the collective talents of all players.

I expected Turner to be more of a divisive element when he arrived than he has been in actuality, so it's difficult for me to be persuasive about the possible disruption Stevenson might cause. But I wouldn't be thrilled by the prospect of getting him, especially since I'd prefer that the Celtics' best trade assets would be expended only for an intimidator..

Leave it to these twin media misfits to finger yet another three-point-shooting big as a great match for the Celtics. Yup, Hawes is the intimidator the Celtics really need. I swear, these two guys must live in caves.

Sam

SAM,

The phrase that you are searching for is balanced attack.

I agree.........no Anthony....no Hawes.

112288

Melo would only make sense IF he is the final piece for a championship contender (regardless of IF he really could be).

since THIS Celtic team is NO WHERE near contending, there is no real need to consider him.

Hawes is a LESSER Kelly O.

Stephenson is WAY over paid for what he brings to any team..however, if Charlotte wants Thornton for him even up I would do that as I think it does improve the Celtics somewhat.



so........merging two threads.........

in MY world Ainge makes TWO deals:

1) trades Bass and LAC pick to Detriot for Monroe

2) Trades Thornton and a couple future second rounders' for Stephenson


revised roster:

Monroe
Zeller
Fav ( god!)
Sully
Kelly
Powell
Green
Turner
Wallace
Bradley
Stephenson
Young
Rondo
Smart
Pressey


That is a better team than we currently have, IMO and that is all that can be asked at this point. Monroe will be on a rest of the year rental to se IF he is part of the future (costing us the Clippers pick). Stephenson is here for one more year ( his third year is a team option).

something like this might just be the best we can get , especially IF Ainge is planning on keeping Rondo. Ainge knows that keeping Rondo here means a QUICKER rebuild and that means not building though the draft only.

buy low danny!

"When the Celtics offense bogs down, like it has many times this season, Anthony is that player who can bail you out by making a tough shot..."

That's kind of ass-backwards. A guy like Anthony CAUSES an offense to bog down.

Maybe the writer means that when the offense is running smoothly, Carmelo can bring the team back to earth with that crowd pleasing one-on-one isolation.

mrkleen09 wrote:So you wanted me to prove to you that Melo was considered a bad teammate by many, which I did.  But now when the question is turned back on you, to prove your point - this is your answer?

Gotcha.

mrkleen,

If you go back and check, I didn't ask you to prove anything.  And by the way, by posting some selective web threads, because of course everything on the web is accurate, you still haven't proven a thing.

I merely expressed my opinion on Anthony not being as bad as he's made out to be, and said that I'm not sure where the bad rap comes from (although I didn't say so directly, it seems to be internet chatter and I used terms to the effect of "not concrete").  I also mentioned some examples of his personal character not relating to basketball.

You seem to like to argue on things like this, and we've gone down this road before. Sorry, but I'm not getting baited into it.  I've got better things to do than try and spend my time proving myself right on a matter of opinion.  You may want to double check that this is indeed a place to express opinions.  

If the whole point for you is to be able to express a "gotcha" you're in the wrong place, dealing with the wrong guy.  It takes a lot to get me there, but I do get tired of that kind of bullsh*t.  Congratulations, you've got me there.

112288,

Actually, the term I was searching for was the one I used—egalitarian. The term was not coined with basketball attack specifically in mind. It alludes to equality of people. In the basketball sense, it pertains to a voice in the locker room as much as an influence on the floor. It means to me that everyone on the team has the same objective and works equally hard to achieve that objective. I don't believe Melo fits that mold for the Melo-centric reasons I mentioned above.

Sam

No one is trying to play "gotcha", but lets not practice revisionist history here.  It is all very clear what was asked and answered in this regard.

NYCelt wrote:mrkleen,

If you go back and check, I didn't ask you to prove anything.

Really, you could have fooled me.

NYCelt wrote:

I don't think there has ever been anything concrete that points to Carmelo being a clubhouse cancer.   I'm not sure where any negative accounts about him really come from. 

This is directly asking for something "concrete" about Carmelo being a terrible teammate.  Sam and I BOTH found the same article.  So yes, you did ask for proof and yes it was provided to you.  

The negatives accounts come from his former coach in Denver AND former and current teammates and were reported by numerous respected national news organizations.  The fact that you dont think NBC Sports is a valid source is your problem.

Now we are still left with you half of this argument.  The one where you claim Carmelo is a good teammate and not a problem in the locker room.  You are right, you dont have to prove anything. Especially when you cant.

mrkleen09 wrote:No one is trying to play "gotcha", but lets not practice revisionist history here.  It is all very clear what was asked and answered in this regard.

NYCelt wrote:mrkleen,

If you go back and check, I didn't ask you to prove anything.

Really, you could have fooled me.

NYCelt wrote:

I don't think there has ever been anything concrete that points to Carmelo being a clubhouse cancer.   I'm not sure where any negative accounts about him really come from. 

This is directly asking for something "concrete" about Carmelo being a terrible teammate.  Sam and I BOTH found the same article.  So yes, you did ask for proof and yes it was provided to you.  

The negatives accounts come from his former coach in Denver AND former and current teammates and were reported by numerous respected national news organizations.  The fact that you dont think NBC Sports is a valid source is your problem.

Now we are still left with you half of this argument.  The one where you claim Carmelo is a good teammate and not a problem in the locker room.  You are right, you dont have to prove anything.  Especially when you cant.

mrkleen,

I think you have a problem.

Check your private messages, it's time for a little direct conversation.