Finally A Sense Of Urgency?

Rumor has it that Doc really laid into the Celtic players after the Magic debacle on Sunday. Rumor also has it that the Big 3 called a team meeting thereafter. FINALLY there may be a sense of urgency around Celticdom.

With all of the losses the Celtics have endured after double digit leads, you would have thought that urgency would have materialized long ago. At least I did. I have been doing a burn for 2 months trying to get this board's posters to realize that the Celtics had some REAL problems: mainly between their ears and in their hearts.

I am thrilled that FINALLY management and players MAY admit chemistry and injuries are not the only, in fact not the major reasons, for their inconsistent effort and play. It is not too late for the veterans to rake a good, hard look in the mirror and swallow some pride. Everyone knows I was a Rondo supporter even before he stepped on the floor as a Celtic, and I have never been more proud of him when he came out and questioned players' attitudes and goals. In television interviews he has consistently mentioned the need for Celtic EFFORT. He had the GUTS to come out and publicly admonish status quo. Rivers was embarrassed because he should have been so direct. I bet he was direct after the Orlando game.

It is not too late, but I just don't see the Celtic pride we have been used to seeing. Maybe only the mirrors can wake these Celtics. We can only pray!!

sdcelt

look dude we all see problems. we dont all see them exaclty as you do...hence the beauty of the forum

Did you see the game Sunday, Jeb? Was that the professionalism we have come to expect from Celtic teams? Did you see the anger on Rivers' face? Did you hear Rivers say the team went completely away from his game plan? Have you read some of Rondo's comments?

I have seen some of the best basketball I have seen from any Celtic team the last month. I have also seen some of the worst during the same period of time. Like I said, if you are not or can't put forth consistent energy, you damn better play smart, professional basketball.

Jeb, you tell me, how do you see or explain these problems? Waiting to see if things get better when / if injuries heal up may just roll us into the playoffs with no home court advantage. At least maybe Celtic pride was questioned this week, and a new attitude may develop.

Go Celtics!!

I think the problems are there and I am not sure why. I suspect there are some problems between the older guys and the youth.

I did not see the game. It must have been bad cause the negativity around here went into hyperdrive.

I agree with your first post. I think urgency has been sorely lacking. Specialy at home. And that bugs me. You have to run up a black flag and hold your dirt at home.

Myself I am going to give it another ten games with our full complement of players and see if Doc and the guys can get it figured out.

What i disagree with sd is it seems you are positioning yourself as the only person who sees this. I also feel you need to be right. So there it is letter high.

Different people can see the same situation in profoundly different ways.

I enjoy your post and am glad you are around and I know you really want the team to win.

I am glad Doc got in their face. It's about time SOMEBODY did. Let's see how they respond. In terms of waiting for injuries that is just the way this and last year have gone. My one hope for the season is this. Health.

I agree with you, Jeb, just do not feel Danny and Doc will give this group 10 more games together.

No preference either way for I....just see that they have identified that they otherwise will be handcuffed in maintaining a contending team in the coming years.

Love your posts,

Tark

Only 2 or 3 posters on this board supported my analysis for the better part of 2 months. You tend to get a little defensive when you are the Lone Ranger. I accept your criticism, Jeb, and will keep my personal references out of it from now on.

Go Celtics!!

Tark

I aint sure. I did a little reading around the nba and I hear it like this. The Celtics will not trade Ray without getting equal value.

Where do they get that guy? They are up against it in terms of KEEPING a contending team and we all want that. If Danny in his head dont think they can WIN IT this year I guarantee you a trade is eminent. But he aint going to give Ray Allen away and he damn well shouldnt. Ray aint shooting great but he has been a rock for this years team. In fact so effective that Doc barely ever sits him.

It's a tough spot for Danny. I am losing some faith in Doc. He needs to light a fire under some asses and if that means sitting vets and letting hunger play so be it.

The idea that they're playing some sort of sporadic energy game is rather humorous. ("Okay boys, let's schedule tonight's energy rushes for the 2 to 5 minute mark of the second and the 6 to 9 mark of the third.") The fact is that they're clearly out of sync and able to execute only in spurts.

The number one priority for this team is to get into sync. Once they start clicking, it will then be a matter of identifying the most productive combinations. All of which was supposed to happen during the first half of the season but could not take place because of the discontinuity of lineups and combinations that Doc has had to throw out there. So, instead of coming together as planned, the team drifted apart functionally because of the makeshift rotations forced upon Doc. Whatever mental malaise may have affected them was not the cause but has been the effect of all that drifting and the resulting frustration.

It's obvious! Each game, we're seeing little glimmers of individual improvement. But they're not putting them all together. That's not energy-related, it's team dysfunction-related.

IF they use it correctly, the all-star break can be a literal break from the past and an opportunity to refocus and come together as a complete team. IF they can capitalize on that opportunity, it will be amazing how much energy they'll magically appear to pick up. But it won't be renewed energy that will cause better execution, any more than it's the lack of energy that's causing the periods of lousy execution. The lousy execution is caused by dysfunction; and it will be improved execution and team play that will stimulate greater smoothness of play, enhanced joie de vivre out there, energy in reserve, and far better results.

Sam

This is the first I've heard of Doc letting his players hear it. If so, good for him.

The team needs some time to regroup now that everyone is back, but certainly an attitude adjustment appears to be mission #1.

These are mostly intelligent players with a reputation for having a fairly high basketball IQ. We're still in good shape for the stretch run in terms of the standings. Let's see how they react over the next week or so; then we may have a clue as to what to expect by playoff time.

If they do make changes prior to the trade deadline I wouldn't be surprised, but would expect it to be change along the bench. It wouldn't be the first time a spark was lit by bringing in a fresh face or two during the season.

sd

We all do it. we are human. We do it because we all care a helluva lot about this team.

There is such a flood of negativity around here now I feel we are losing good posters. I think people feel the season is slipping away and it is very understandable and arguably justified.

Sometimes when I read the new stuff after a loss I feel like i did when I got nuked by a troll on the old sight.

Your a mature man. Things are never as bad OR as good as they seem ya know?

Jeb,

Away from Boston most would hold greater value in Martin than Allen. Only Ray's expiring contract makes a trade with him as a centerpiece palatable to competing GM's.

I hope they shop him (If that is D & D's choice) ONLY for equivalent value and an infusion of youth while gaining pieces for title campaigns this year and in the future.

Compare stats over the last 2 years for Martin & Allen. While I like many others better, Ray's totals pale to those of the King's SG, and Ray is not the defensive stopper now he was 2 years ago.

All the best,

Tark

nyc

One thing is with guys that never yell...when they do yell it flat gets your attention.

Let's hope this cockamaimie crap starts to iron out.

tark

you put Ray on a team that bad (which is where he was most of his career) and he would average better in every category than Martin. Ray has professionally played a very humble hardworking option with a stacked team. So I dont think your comaparison is valid in this situation.

Jeb,

I respectfully disagree. Ray at this age will never again put up big scoring numbers regardless of the locale.

I love Ray as a solid veteran presence, but do feel he is currently overvalued by his Boston supporters.

We all are entitled to our own appraisals of value and I accept yours with the admonition we may just get to see it in practice soon.

Kind regards,

Tark

jeb65 wrote:

One thing is with guys that never yell...when they do yell it flat gets your attention.

Jeb,

Beyond any doubt; you are right.

I hope that's Doc's effective element of surprise.

Regards

Tark, do you know anything about Martin's defense? I looked up some scouting reports (which could be dated now), and they seemed to suggest that he's not at all committed to defense. I gather that he jumps into passing lanes and makes steals but opponents can rather easily get past him.

Then I looked at some available video (also perhaps passé). It showed him flying in for a variety of dunks and hitting on mid-range jumpers, both of which could be useful in curtailing the Celtics' tendency to default to the long ball when the momentum shifts against them. However, if he were to take Ray's place in the starting lineup, I expect the Celtics offensive system would look to him to be a perimeter floor spacer. (I personally detest the three-point shot, but it seems to be a fact of life.) Yet the video only showed him taking a couple of threes (which, of course, he made because they seldom show misses on highlight reels). I guess he shoots about 40% from out there, but the scouting report strongly implied that his three-point stroke is rather slow and can be defended. Do you know anything about that?

Sam

tark

to be straight with you I am bullshi#%$%% a bit cause I have only seen Martin play about 5 times. But I think Ray's value is still pretty damn high if not around the nba in boston...

is martin healthy?

A few night owls on the board tonight. Nice to see.

sam

in short which way do you break on all this ray stuff. I think ray is UNDERVALUED personally.

Sam,

I believe he averages 3 or so 3 Pointers and a good number of steals...and showcased strong D while at Western Carolina. The current environment has not been good for him and who better to re-instill defensive principles than KG and TT.

I believe there are better trade options but also that this is what DA is focused on.....thus our discussion.

I DO believe we would be getting a younger version of the Ray Allen that arrived in Green, with a longer window for success.

I respect all the views being aired and agree with you, Sam, that this group with continuity and renewed commitment can be successful in the near term. I just do not believe that is the best course for future championship contention.

You're the best,

Tark

Thanks Tark. Jeb, i'm still trying to make up my mind.

On the face of things, as I think you said, Ray is the closest thing they have to being the glue that holds the team together. I also love his professionalism and his willingness to play any role they designate as best he can. On the other hand, I'd love to see some speed in there with Rondo as long as the perimeter game isn't seriously compromised.

The reason I was asking Tark about Martin's defense was that the possible impact on the defensive end could be the deciding factor in my estimation. The Celts need that "on demand" defensive intensity as their silver bullet, and I'd like to hope that at least there was no dropoff in the defense in a tradeoff from Ray to Martin.

Sam

The Lakers beat the Spurs last night without Kobe. That's pretty impressive. When faced with the loss of their key guy, the guy that has the ball in his hands almost every posession, takes almost a third of all their shots and is an all-defensive team member, they sucked it up and beat a good team anyway.

Our turn. Time to stop feeling entitled ("we're a better team than Orlando". Not if they beat us repeatedly we're not!).

As Lance Armstrong said: Give up or start fighting like hell (and I don't mean with each other).

If play is dysfunctional, then you have to ratchet up your energy level to offset that and try to create breaks for yourself. If you're getting out-rebounded because KG's out, then everybody has to find a body to lean on and box out more.

I absolutely understand Sam's points. I agree with the intellectual root of them, but I say "so what?". This is sports, not nuclear physics with fixed Laws that exist no matter what you think or want or try. Get over it. Adapt. Overcome. Conquer. We're a veteran team that has its championship team core still in place. In fact, 2 members of that core, Rondo and Perk, have taken huge strides forward since 2008. We should be better.

Daniels is back. TA is back. Davis is back. We oohed and aaahed in the offseason about how we had the best bench in the league. Ok, well now our bench is healthy again. We should be able to overcome the shortterm loss of Pierce.

A little tough love from California first thing in the morning. Where's my damn coffee!!

bob

Bob,

SOUNDS good, but it's not quite the way things work.

Try this exercise. Get yourself all riled up about something (I don't care what it is). Stamp around, get all intense, elevate your blood pressure, and get really agitated.

Then go out and take a free throw. Chances are it'll bounce away. Because, while effort in basketball can elevate good execution to great execution, effort alone doesn't magically create good execution. In fact, sometimes the harder you try the worse (and more frustrating) it becomes (especially in the area of shooting).

Learning to play with people you've played with only intermittently takes time and can't be replaced by running around saying, "I think I can. I think I can."

There's no question that this team needs a new "we can do it" mindset, and perhaps Doc's outburst will shock them into realizing how is the time. But the WAY they'll do it is by synergy of execution, not just with pom poms.

I haven't been over-using the term "discontinuity" just for the heck of it. Discontinuity prevents synergy from occurring; extended discontinuity propels them in a direction OPPOSITE from synergy, leading to frustration, malaise, etc. And, if you somehow expect them to transcend human frustration in reacting to incessant discontinuity and resultant dysfunction...well you just shouldn't.

Not to nitpik on terms, but the bench is NOT healthy again. It won't be healthy in a functional sense until it has had the opportunity to coalesce as it should have much earlier the season. It never got a chance. In addition to missing key members for long periods, it got raided to fill in for injured starters. More discontinuity. That's a killer!

And one game or two games as a "complete" team (if playing with two extremely important yet sub-par elements can be considered "complete) won't do it either. It will take a while.

As I've been saying for some time, the all-star break represents an ideal point at which to regroup. But, after the break, they can expend all the energy in the world; and, if they don't execute better together, that energy expenditure will work AGAINST them, not FOR them because it'll exacerbate the frustration and the malaise.

It's the synergy (facilitated by greater continuity) that will fuel the energy, not the reverse; because, in addition to relearning many executional aspects of the game, they also have to regain the feeling of joie de vivre out there. And there's absolutely nothing like sheer joy to stimulate adrenalin and energy.

It all happens in steps, and that takes time. Knee bone connected to the shin bone.

Sam

Sam wrote:

Try this exercise. Get yourself all riled up about something (I don't care what it is). Stamp around, get all intense, elevate your blood pressure, and get really agitated.

Then go out and take a free throw. Chances are it'll bounce away.

Sam

Sam,

OK, I tried the getting riled up part. Easy enough because somebody got the last cranberry chocolate chip cookie before I could! Then I wadded up a piece of paper and shot for the waste basket from about 10 feet and missed. It actually hit off the side of my credenza.

Your point is made. But I had my eye on that darned cookie so I'm still riled up!

Oh; were we talking about basketball again?

Regards

NYCelt,

Your problem was the basket was only 10 feet away. Your finely tuned sensitivities are used to the 15-foot foul line difference. Try it again from 15 feet. Swish.

Alternatively, maybe cranberry cookies are what the Celtics need. Or, even worse, maybe their problem is that someone stole their cookies and they've been distracted for one-third of the season.

Any chance you could send them some of those cookies? I've heard of enabling cookies, but this could give the term new meaning.

Sam