This player would be a good sign for the Celtics.

https://youtu.be/0louI_dZdg0.....Right now he is a free agent and is having a great season in Spain.6-9 small forward and shooting guard.He can play inside and outside and is very good in defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgEOOikrOAI

Looks like the next Datome to me. Just a solid Euro baller, who won't make much difference on the NBA.

oh yeah he's also 25YO, so not much upside there at his age. Much like Fav, guys that have been banging around in Europe for a few years are all WELL KNOWN by NBA scouts now.

there are no "hidden Gems" out there that are going to be an NBA star.


http://www.basketballinsiders.com/mindaugas-kuzminskas-hopes-for-shot-at-nba/

As NBA teams continue to expand their international personnel on the bench and the hardwood, Lithuanian small forward Mindaugas Kuzminskas keeps falling between the cracks. However, he hasn’t fallen off the radar.

Let’s rewind back to 2011. On his third outing at the Adidas EuroCamp showcase, Kuzminskas, according to a report from scouting guru Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress, showed the ability to score in bunches.

The slim-framed, 6-foot-9 wing erupted with 32 points on 6-for-10 shooting from the perimeter over a pair of showings, drawing immediate NBA attention.

But while players like Milan Macvan, Chukwudiebere Maduabum, Tanguy Ngombo and Ater Majok heard their names called in the 2011 NBA Draft, Kuzminskas went undrafted. Now, those four drafted prospects seem like long shots to play in the NBA, while Kuzminskas remains hopeful.

Fast forward to last summer, to September 11 of all dates, as Team USA bulldozed over the Lithuanian national team, 96-68, in the World Cup games in Espana. Despite the loss, Kuzminskas recorded his best game and his only double-digit scoring performance with 15 points on 6-for-9 shooting from the floor, along with a game-high nine rebounds.

That game, in addition to a few solid seasons in the Euroleague with Zalgiris Kaunas and Unicaja Malaga, significantly raised Kuzminskas’ NBA stock, sources told Basketball Insiders.

NBA scouts are asking about the length of Kuzminskas’ contract in Spain. The Los Angeles Lakers and Utah Jazz, among others, have inquired, a source shared with Basketball Insiders.

Kuzminskas, who is in his second season with Malaga (the No. 1 seed in the ACB League), averages 10.2 points and 3.9 rebounds in 21.6 minutes per game in the Euroleague – and 9.6 points along with 4.1 boards per contest while shooting north of 38 percent from deep in the Spanish competition.

“Kuzminskas has been very productive this season and there is NBA interest for sure. Teams have spoken with Malaga, but nothing is imminent at the moment,” Lithuanian based agent Tadas Bulotas told Basketball Insiders.

Kuzminskas becomes a restricted free agent next summer as Malaga owns his rights for next season, but according to Bulotas, the Spanish power-club might opt against exercising his extension.

“Kuzminskas could leave Malaga, but there is a heavy NBA buyout and a even higher Euroleague buyout,” Bulotas said. “If Malaga [does] well in the ACB and the Euroleague, it might be worth it for the club to lower the buyout and sell Mindaugas. Otherwise, Kuzminskas could leave after next season for free.”

Kuzminskas, I’m told, is open to test the NBA waters at the next Summer League showcase in Las Vegas. His agent confirmed this, saying: “We’re thinking about sending him, the Summer League came up in discussions.”

Kuzminskas, though, is also comfortable in Malaga.

“He’s in the best league in the world outside the NBA, he loves the city and plays for a coach that recruited him out of Lithuania. It could go either way,” Bulotas said.

So what does Kuzminskas want?

“I’d like to get a chance to move to the NBA,” Kuzminskas told Basketball Insiders. “I feel like I matched up against Team USA pretty well. USA have a lot of talent and great players, but they’re humans, not robots. I’m not thinking too much about the NBA because I have a contract with Malaga for next season. I’m trying to help the team win in the Euroleague Top 16, and to be consistent and improve in order to think about what is next.”

kdp59.
take a look at Kusminkas playing against team USA and then we can talk about the comparison with Datome.and remember even Pero Antic who came to the NBA with 32years old is helping Atlanta.European sometimes are better than 19 years old players taken in the draft.....https://youtu.be/adoPhN0GHek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adoPhN0GHek

well I don't disagree that a 25YO vet euro player can be better than a 19YO with one year of US college ball.

but the upside is rarely so.

and as far as Kuzu....hes a well known quality is all I mean.

could Ainge sign him....sure.

is he likely to be anyting more than an end of the bench NBA player....probably not.


Bring him in though (as long as he doesn't want some guaranteed money). lets see what he has.

One thing about being at the start of remaking an entire team is that it makes sense to take a look at almost anyone.  Players like this are relatively easy to bring in for a look; why not try a couple at some point?

International,

Thanks for the link. I agree with what you've posted elsewhere, that Ainge could do a better job scouting international players. It's been the biggest area of growth in the NBA the past 20 years, yet from what I can tell, these are the only international players Boston has drafted or signed:

2013 -- Vitor Faverani -- rolled the dice, came up craps
2008 - Semih Erden -- didn't join the team until 2010, played half a season before being traded to Cleveland, has returned to Turkey

I'm not counting Lucas Nogueira, who was technically drafted by Boston but was dealt immediately to Toronto as part of the deal to get Olynyk, or Fab Melo, who wasn't exactly an international discovery since he played at Syracuse. There are other international players the Celtics signed (Leandro Barbosa, Darko, Sasha Pavlovic, Mickael Pietrus, Nenad Krstic) who aren't international "finds" because they'd already been in the league by the time Boston acquired them. When you get down to it, Vitor and Semih Erden are the only players Boston has signed from overseas.

I do think there is more risk with foreign-born players because they may not like being in the U.S. and wind up returning to their native country or the international leagues. They're away from family and friends, so it's only natural. But I do think it's worth taking a shot on one of these guys with a low first round or a second round pick. Manu Ginobli, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, Tony Parker, Tiago Splitter, Marcin Gortat, Goren Dragic, and Marc Gasol are all examples of guys drafted in the low first or second round.

Of course there are plenty of examples of international players who were drafted as high or higher who were busts, but you can say the same for homegrown players.

I agree with your comments and I would like to add that players like Kusminkas who is 25 years old are better prepared now because they have the experience and this player in particular is fearless ,versatile ,can play multiple positions ,can create his own shot and play inside and outside.My advise to those who want to judge European players by the stats is ,Don't do it those stats are deceiving specially in the Euroleague because the teams are allowed to use as many as 10 import players and all of them play between 10 and 15 minutes.If you can give Avery Bradley 8 millions or more per season I don't see why you cant give a player like this a contract of 3 millions per year or 9 millions for 3 years.

International,

I've noticed that both "imports" and native international players often play less than 25 minutes per game. Why is that—especially the ones who have good potential for the NBA? Is there something in all their contracts that guarantees even secondary players a certain amount of time in each game?

Sam

Sam I thought most of the Euro leagues play 40 minute games.

I could be wrong though.

Outside wrote:International,

Thanks for the link. I agree with what you've posted elsewhere, that Ainge could do a better job scouting international players. It's been the biggest area of growth in the NBA the past 20 years, yet from what I can tell, these are the only international players Boston has drafted or signed:

2013 -- Vitor Faverani -- rolled the dice, came up craps
2008 - Semih Erden -- didn't join the team until 2010, played half a season before being traded to Cleveland, has returned to Turkey

I'm not counting Lucas Nogueira, who was technically drafted by Boston but was dealt immediately to Toronto as part of the deal to get Olynyk, or Fab Melo, who wasn't exactly an international discovery since he played at Syracuse. There are other international players the Celtics signed (Leandro Barbosa, Darko, Sasha Pavlovic, Mickael Pietrus, Nenad Krstic) who aren't international "finds" because they'd already been in the league by the time Boston acquired them. When you get down to it, Vitor and Semih Erden are the only players Boston has signed from overseas.

I do think there is more risk with foreign-born players because they may not like being in the U.S. and wind up returning to their native country or the international leagues. They're away from family and friends, so it's only natural. But I do think it's worth taking a shot on one of these guys with a low first round or a second round pick. Manu Ginobli, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, Tony Parker, Tiago Splitter, Marcin Gortat, Goren Dragic, and Marc Gasol are all examples of guys drafted in the low first or second round.

Of course there are plenty of examples of international players who were drafted as high or higher who were busts, but you can say the same for homegrown players.

Outside,

Just a little housekeeping here:  Ainge also drafted Fab Melo.  The Celtics have had other foreign players, just not that Ainge drafted.

Rick Fox - Canadian
Kris Joseph - Canadian
Jerome Moiso - French
Milt Palacio - Belizean (undrafted)
Dino Radja - Croatia
Ramon Rivas - Puerto Rico
Bruno Sundov - Croatia
Stojko Vrankovic - Croatia
Ruben Wolkowyski - Argentina

This list doesn't include players with previous NBA  experience.  So, the list, overall, is surprisingly long But not very illustrious.  Of these players Rick Fox, Dino Radja and Milt Palacio are the only ones I see that had respectable NBA careers.  

Hopefully Danny's new director of international scouting will improve our success rate.  I do find it very encouraging that Danny thought that a change of personnel in this area was worthy.  It suggests he isn't just ignoring it.


bob



.

Sam,
Sam is a very good question.The answer is that European leagues specially the league of Spain have a rule that at least 3 players from the country must be in the court at the same time,so they have to rotate the imports to have 2 of them playing with the 3 local players.Thats the reason why you see the best import players playing 15 minutes or 18 at the best.Also as Kdp59 said international leagues only play 40 minutes.Sometimes you see a rebound leader with 6.5 rebounds and a leader in points with 17.5.Its complicated but they got to be sure that are developing the young players.They also have 3 leagues ....the main league ,a B league and a C league.The last to teams in the final Standing of the main league are sent to the B league and the best 2 teams from the B league go to the main league.

This situation with international players is not new.I must remind you that in the 1989 draft Red Auerbach was a consultand and I cant remember who was the GM at the time,i think was Jan Volk but I am not sure.But the thing is that Red wanted the Celtics to draft Vlade Divac and guess what the GM ignored Red advise and took the great Michael Smith ,so Danny is not the only one.

international wrote:This situation with international players is not new.I must remind you that in the 1989 draft Red Auerbach was a consultand and I cant remember who was the GM at the time,i think was Jan Volk but I am not sure.But the thing is that Red wanted the Celtics to draft Vlade Divac and guess what the GM ignored Red advise and took the great Michael Smith ,so Danny is not the only one.

Intl,

That's the draft for you, it is a crap shoot unless you are picking very high. Red is also the guy who banged his cane on the floor and insisted "I WANT JOE FORTE!" and nobody had a better eye for talent than Red. My list of foreign Celtics draftees shows it goes back before Danny.

It looks like we have problems with drafting foreign bigs. Guards like Palacios and Fox, ok, but to only have Radja as a successful pick (and he was #40) for a big and miss on Sundov and Melo and Vrankovic and Rivas? Danny could have had Festus Ezeli but took Melo instead. I think he just has a blind spot for centers.


bob


.

Bob,I wont consider Fab Melo as an international player,because he came to the states from Brazil at 16 years old and was only a soccer player.He started to play basketball in USA and played ncaa basketball.

bobheckler wrote:Outside,

Just a little housekeeping here:  Ainge also drafted Fab Melo.  The Celtics have had other foreign players, just not that Ainge drafted.

Rick Fox - Canadian
Kris Joseph - Canadian
Jerome Moiso - French
Milt Palacio - Belizean (undrafted)
Dino Radja - Croatia
Ramon Rivas - Puerto Rico
Bruno Sundov - Croatia
Stojko Vrankovic - Croatia
Ruben Wolkowyski - Argentina

Yeah, I mentioned Fab Melo, but he played college ball at Syracuse, so that's not finding a guy overseas. It's not just the nation on the birth certificate or passport that is the key point; it's finding guys who have spent their entire career outside the U.S.

Of the guys you listed, only Dino Radja and the immortal Stojko Vrankovic really count, but I wasn't looking any earlier than 2000. Ainge became President of Basketball Operations in May 2003. When Radja joined the Celtics in 1993, Ainge was still in the league as a player.

Five of the guys you listed (Fox, Joseph, Moiso, Palacio, and Rivas) played college ball in the U.S. Sundov and Wolkowyski played for other NBA teams before coming to Boston. For purposes of this discussion -- finding guys who play overseas -- none of them count because they're either scouted the same way as every other U.S. college player or they're scouted as NBA players. Scouting international leagues and tournaments is a different deal.

international wrote:Sam,
Sam is a very  good   question.The answer is that European leagues specially the league of Spain have a rule that at least 3 players from the country must be in the court at the same time,so they have to rotate the imports to have 2 of them playing with the 3 local players.Thats the reason why you see the best import players playing 15 minutes or 18 at the best.Also as Kdp59 said international leagues only play 40 minutes.Sometimes you see a rebound leader with 6.5 rebounds and a leader in points with 17.5.Its complicated but they got to be sure that are developing the young players.They also have 3 leagues ....the main league ,a B league and a C league.The last to teams in the final Standing of the main league are sent to the B league and the best 2 teams from the B league go to the main league.

This would not apply to this player since he is Lithuanian and also an EU member. They used to have similar rules in a lot of sport leagues but since the EU is about free trade and free movement of people and goods (within the EU) they were considered to be doing exactly that, hindering people from working freely. So all EU members would be treated the same when it comes to that kind of rules in sport leagues, the division can only be EU vs non-EU. Now I am not sure this is not the case for the spanish basketball league but I find it very unlikely they would be able to treat EU residents different from natives when it comes to work regulation.

I am guessing one reason is that the european game does not have the same amount of timeouts and breaks, they play in two halves instead of 4 quarters and I am guessing no "officials timeouts" (aka mandatory commercial breaks) and maybe less timeouts per team?

swedeinestonia wrote:

international wrote:Sam,
Sam is a very  good   question.The answer is that European leagues specially the league of Spain have a rule that at least 3 players from the country must be in the court at the same time,so they have to rotate the imports to have 2 of them playing with the 3 local players.Thats the reason why you see the best import players playing 15 minutes or 18 at the best.Also as Kdp59 said international leagues only play 40 minutes.Sometimes you see a rebound leader with 6.5 rebounds and a leader in points with 17.5.Its complicated but they got to be sure that are developing the young players.They also have 3 leagues ....the main league ,a B league and a C league.The last to teams in the final Standing of the main league are sent to the B league and the best 2 teams from the B league go to the main league.

This would not apply to this player since he is Lithuanian and also an EU member. They used to have similar rules in a lot of sport leagues but since the EU is about free trade and free movement of people and goods (within the EU) they were considered to be doing exactly that, hindering people from working freely. So all EU members would be treated the same when it comes to that kind of rules in sport leagues, the division can only be EU vs non-EU. Now I am not sure this is not the case for the spanish basketball league but I find it very unlikely they would be able to treat EU residents different from natives when it comes to work regulation.

I am guessing one reason is that the european game does not have the same amount of timeouts and breaks, they play in two halves instead of 4 quarters and I am guessing no "officials timeouts" (aka mandatory commercial breaks) and maybe less timeouts per team?

Swede,

Hey Swede, how are ya?  Haven't seen a post from you in a while (admittedly my attention span has been a bit short the past few months with my travels).  Weren't you on the move for a while?  Where are you spending get most of your days now?


bob



.

Yeah, I mentioned Fab Melo, but he played college ball at Syracuse, so that's not finding a guy overseas. It's not just the nation on the birth certificate or passport that is the key point; it's finding guys who have spent their entire career outside the U.S.

Of the guys you listed, only Dino Radja and the immortal Stojko Vrankovic really count, but I wasn't looking any earlier than 2000. Ainge became President of Basketball Operations in May 2003. When Radja joined the Celtics in 1993, Ainge was still in the league as a player.

Five of the guys you listed (Fox, Joseph, Moiso, Palacio, and Rivas) played college ball in the U.S. Sundov and Wolkowyski played for other NBA teams before coming to Boston. For purposes of this discussion -- finding guys who play overseas -- none of them count because they're either scouted the same way as every other U.S. college player or they're scouted as NBA players. Scouting international leagues and tournaments is a different deal.[b][/b]

I agree. To me a "foreign" player is a guy who played in a foreign system before coming to the NBA. Thus, Dirk Nowitski, is a foreign player. Fox, born in Cannda, played for Dean Smith, is not.

If we go by place of birth, Tom Meschery, who played with the Warriors in the 60's, would be the first Chinese player since he was born in Manchuria.

http://basketball.eurobasket.com/team/Spain/Unicaja_Malaga/138

If you take a look at Unicajas roster you will see a lot of import players for diferent nations.From Lithuania,Greece,USA,Montenegro,Uruguay and others.In stats you can see a lot of players with over 10 minutes and only 1 player over 20 minutes.Players with experience in Euro league counts as native and that's the reason why each team has a lot of imports.