Haven't played that way....

Nash is another one who had to develop his shot. Okay, so one vote for NOT including Tony in a trade.

I'd trade Tony for a serviceable back up point guard.

[quote="Pumpsie Green"]

Sam wrote:Okay, Pumpsie, here's a question for you (and, of course, others). Tony Allen is one of the expiring contracts. He's also one of the more athletic Celtics (probably THE most athletic aside perhaps from Rondo). We all know his upsides and downsides. So my question is, what should be done about Tony? Get the most we can out of him and let him walk at the end of the season? Include him in a trade (I believe some clubs would be interested)? Hope to re-sign him if nothing better shows up at the end of the season?

I'm actually on the fence about this one, so I'll be very interested in responses—beginning hopefully with yours, Pumpsie.

Sam

Sam,

I really like TA's game, am not in favor of the 'nuclear option' mentioned frequently, but believe if we could move Ray's, Scal's, Gidden's and Walker's expiring contracts in a manner that would upgrade our skill set and bring greater youth and speed to the equation it is a no-brainer. Short of significant upgrades I am more than happy watching this team coalesce into the finest unit they are capable of.

In the right scenario our savvy vets could surprise, such as:

Defeat Toronto in first round;

Defeat a playoff untested Atlanta squad in round 2;

Defeat an Orlando unit too reliant on the 3 ball in the Eastern Final;

Defeat a playoff untested Denver team in the NBA Finals.

Of course this wish list includes teams other than the C's defeating the LA and Cleveland squads I do not feel we are capable of eliminating based on the matchups.

Just an aside,

Tark

Back to the original topic, Paul Pierce/KG and the All-Star game:

Opting out of the game may have rules written up in the CBA, but the method of carrying them out varies:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AqGmy_nQ.rOEpIqmAmvbN5M5nYcB?slug=ap-all-stars-kobeout&prov=ap&type=lgns

Iverson missed his fifth straight game for the 76ers Wednesday night to be with his sick daughter.

This tells me that all one has to do is ask out, come up with a reasonable excuse and the waiver is granted. Pierce and KG should have sat out the last few games, especially Pierce, just to make it look good.

Then they would have had a full two weeks to rehab and "get a lot better for the second half of the season"

Who is driving this bus? It sounds like the inmates are running the asylum!!

gyso

Now we have Pierce boarding the flight to Dallas in a wheelchair?

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20100212no_need_to_worry_its_just_how_paul_pierce_rolls/

Goofball my a$$!!!

We should all be very thankful that we aren't back at BDC. It would be merciless!

Sam

Sam wrote:We should all be very thankful that we aren't back at BDC. It would be merciless!

Sam

Sam,

I took a peek and found that Dudder dusted off your old thread,

Challenge to All the Trolls Who Throw Sticks but Lack Stones

Too funny. I'm really surprised you didn't get banned retroactively with your opening post!!

gyso

gyso,

I saw that. I have no idea why he decided to to that and went to all the trouble. I sent a message to Boston.com to take note that it was not I who revived the thread. I recognized the headline right away. I really took off on the trolls didn't I? One of my several challenges. And only a couple of them met the challenge, which I guess Dudder was too dense to comprehend.

It's surely nice to be out of that environment. I expect, now that the thread has been brought up for reexamination, it will be retroactively deleted, given that the BDC rules have changed (again and again) since it was first posted.

Sam

Has Dudder changed his position on Rondo yet? I can't bring myself to go over there and check...

GYSO, I wasn't amused by the Herald article on Pierce in a wheelchair either.

.....at least hes not carrying guns,I hope.

Sam wrote:gyso,

I saw that. I have no idea why he decided to to that and went to all the trouble. I sent a message to Boston.com to take note that it was not I who revived the thread. I recognized the headline right away. I really took off on the trolls didn't I? One of my several challenges. And only a couple of them met the challenge, which I guess Dudder was too dense to comprehend.

It's surely nice to be out of that environment. I expect, now that the thread has been brought up for reexamination, it will be retroactively deleted, given that the BDC rules have changed (again and again) since it was first posted.

Sam

Sam just wanted to thank you for starting and managing this forum,its a pleasure to just talk game with guys I've had the pleasure to hang with and other knowledgeable and passionate fans......thanks again and I owe you a coffee.

Pumpsie: I agree with you. I love Daniels game and he stepped right in the first game back like he hasn't missed a beat. Daniels and Rondo are the only 2 untochables (not Elliott Ness) on the Celtics. Everyone else is fair game either for trades or buy outs!-MD.

MDCelticsFan wrote:Pumpsie: I agree with you. I love Daniels game and he stepped right in the first game back like he hasn't missed a beat. Daniels and Rondo are the only 2 untochables (not Elliott Ness) on the Celtics. Everyone else is fair game either for trades or buy outs!-MD.

Rondo becomes fair game too, IMO, if he does not develop an outside shot of reasonable proficiency and/or does not markedly improve his free throw shooting. Is there a starting point guard anywhere in the NBA who cannot shoot FTs or hit an outside shot when he is wide open? I can't think of anyone else like that.

Cow,

I'll take that coffee. But it has to be decaf.

The fact is that it's the members who make the forum. So I should be buying.

Thanks,

Sam

Pumpsie Green wrote:

MDCelticsFan wrote:Pumpsie: I agree with you. I love Daniels game and he stepped right in the first game back like he hasn't missed a beat. Daniels and Rondo are the only 2 untochables (not Elliott Ness) on the Celtics. Everyone else is fair game either for trades or buy outs!-MD.

Rondo becomes fair game too, IMO, if he does not develop an outside shot of reasonable proficiency and/or does not markedly improve his free throw shooting. Is there a starting point guard anywhere in the NBA who cannot shoot FTs or hit an outside shot when he is wide open? I can't think of anyone else like that.

pumpsie,

Outside shooting is Rondo's achilles heel, no doubt about it. But he does so many other good things, many of which can't be taught. You asked "Is there a starting point guard anywhere in the NBA who cannot shoot FTs or hit an outside shot when he is wide open?". I'd ask "is there another starting point guard, other than Rondo, anywhere in the NBA who is on the NBA's All-Defensive Team?" The answer is yes, but ONLY one.

His 53% fg% is up this year from his career average of 49.5%. His fga/minute is up too (so more shooting at a higher success rate. That's what you want). I don't understand the viewpoint that says "a point guard has to be able to shoot from the arc and not just lay ups". Ask any coach or GM in the league if they'd be happy if their point guard was able to get to the front of the rim and finish as often as Rondo and see what they say. It has been clear to me that Rondo is becoming more comfortable with his new, retooled jumpshot and is thinking less and less when he's taking them.

His ft% is excrement. No mincing words here (ok, maybe calling it "shit" would be more direct, but excrement is still pretty direct). Fortunately, he's only averaging 3.5 fta per game this year. To put numbers on that, if Rondo's ft% went from 60% to 80%, that'd be worth .7 ppg more. I don't think anybody would vote to trade Rondo just because his scoring average dropped off by less than 1 point per game. It's more important to me that he shoots a better % in crunch time, since every one of those points are impact points. According to 82games.com, that's what he does. His current ft% is a disgusting 59% but his ft% in the clutch is 66%. Not a HUGE improvement, of course, but better.

Jason Kidd couldn't throw the ball in the ocean from Trump's Casino in Atlantic City when he first came into the league. He shot 38% his first two years and still is only averaging 42.8%. If he was 24 like Rondo and not 37, would you trade him if he was a Celt? On the issue of fts, Jason Kidd never shot 70% from the line in his first 5 seasons. Starting in season 6, he shot 80% and stayed above 74% every year from then until now. He found his stroke, settled into it, and is shooting 80% from the line this year (83% in the clutch). Rondo is only in his 4th year.

Magic couldn't shoot from outside until the end either, but he averaged 52% for his career MOSTLY on fastbreaks and layups. Nobody thought that was a bad thing back then. To paraphrase Martha Stewart, "a point guard that can get to the rim is a good thing, a very good thing".

bob
P.S. Welcome to the board. Nice to see you.

Thanks Bob.
Don't get me wrong here: Rondo is a good player overall, but he could be much better. Regarding FTs, he is at #80 of the 88 point guards in the NBA shooting FTs at 59%. The guys below him have played in a maximum of 12 games, and most have played in far fewer. Here is the link: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/PG?&_1:col_1=11&start_row=51

If he could develop a decent outside shot and improve his FT% by busting his hump at it this summer until he has it down, then he has the tools to be one of the best PGs for the Celtics ever. With his talent to get to the rim and distribute, and his overall athleticism, he could be really really good.
Absent that, he is a liability at times for the team. The opposition has played "hack a Rondo" at times at the end of the game-with success as Rondo has missed some key FTs.
IMO if he cannot improve his glaring weaknesses, then he is not immune to being replaced.

Interesting viewpoint from Sports Illustrated:

• Boston Celtics. Until they prove otherwise, this team -- 9-13 since Christmas -- no longer belongs in any of the championship conversations. It's not like they're alone: The elderly Spurs are suffering through a similar melancholy. "I'm not getting through to this group," San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich said recently. "It's about mental toughness and physical toughness and passion and the group jelling together and playing for each other. We're not doing it." Coach Doc Rivers could say the same thing about his Celtics.