Post-ame Thread: Celtics-Suns in Phoenix

[Sam]

Some games are more mystifying than others.  This was one game in which I felt I understood everything almost perfectly.  That's why I'm leading off this thread because I'm just bursting to talk about the game.
 
I don't know whether it was by design or serendipity (I suspect the former); but, after a couple of brief feeling-out sequences, the Celtics started getting open (and I mean wide open) for threes.  I estimate that, as a team, they shoot threes about 15 percentage points better when they're wide open than when there's a hand (or body) in their faces.  In particular, Avery Bradley, Evan Turner, Marcus Smart and Jae Crowder are far better three-point shooters when they have relatively little resistance.  In fact, the only player on the team who seems to thrive on shooting contested shots is newcomer Isaiah Thomas.
 
Anyway, the Celtics hit four of eight threes (although it seemed like more) in the initial quarter, and that seemed to loosen up the Suns' offense so that the Celts also shot 50% on twos.  The Suns countered with some scoring down low (which they would continue all evening long), but the Celts led by seven after the first quarter.  The starters represented all of that +7 points, as the bench just broke even vs. their opponents.  Actually, the Turner/Bradley connection showed the way, as Avery included two threes in his 14 (count 'em) first quarter points, and Turner had three assists in the period.
 
One play by Marcus Smart should be singled out.  One of the Suns bobbled a pass, and the ball rolled toward the sideline.  Smart leapt for it, grabbed it, sat up, and tossed a sitting pass to a streaking Bass for an easy basket.
 
In the second stanza, the Suns scored 29 points and won the quarter…..right?  Wrong, because the Celtics scored 41 (count 'em).  By halftime, the Celts led by 17 (67-50), having shot 52% on twos and 59% on threes (10-17).  Included in the three-point barrage at the half were Crowder (3-4), Bradley (2-2), Thomas (2-6), Smart (1-2), Wallace (1-1), and Young (1-1).  The Celts also scored 7 fast break points in the quarter, mainly on the push of the ball by Thomas.  Crowder added a couple of key steals and three assists.
 
One of the principal figures in the second quarter onslaught was Isaiah Thomas, who had 10 points and 5 assists in his 10 minutes.  I mentioned on the Game-on Thread that he was becoming a go-to guy.  But it could be argued that Avery Bradley and even Evan Turner have been go-to guys at various junctures of this season.  I believe a more unique characterization of Thomas would be “instant catalyst.”  The guy enters the game, and the offense looks like it’s been bathing in Gatorade.  If the Celtics have been on a run, it becomes more of a run.  If they’re been struggling, the momentum turns.
 
So things looked pretty good after two periods.  BUT, this was where I experienced a feeling I’ve had many times over the years.  As I expressed it on the Game-on Thread at halftime. “I know the Celtics have a big lead.  But they're depending far too much on the three, while the Suns have an automatic two points whenever they take it to the hoop.  I'm concerned about this game.”
 
My feeling wasn’t based on the number of times the Celtics have blown big leads this season.  What gave me the feeling related specifically to how this game was playing out.  I sensed one team (Phoenix) conducting in a manner that promised to be effective throughout the entire game and the other team (Boston) relying on an offensive approach that could turn sour quickly, especially if the opponent made a few defensive adjustments.
 
And that’s exactly what transpired in the second half.  The Suns kept penetrating, and the Celtics had few answers (and that’s being generous).  And, as for the Celtics in the third quarter:
 
• they shot only 40%.
 
• they made only one of five attempted threes.
 
• they were the victims of 8 offensive rebounds by the Suns.
 
• they had only 4 more turnovers, but all four were all contributors to the fund of 15 fast break points scored by the Suns in the quarter.
 
• they shot only 2 free throws compared to 10 for the Suns, reflecting the Celtics’ continuing reliance on jumpers rather than slashes to the hoop.
 
This was a perfect example of what I’ve been saying lately about how too much dependence on threes can lead to lazy offensive habits.  Their offensive performance in the first half of the third quarter was close to pitiful, while Phoenix went 8 for 11.
 
Then Brad apparently decided to get more aggressive, and he inserted Jae Crowder.  Now I’m not claiming Jae was a one-man wrecking crew out there.  But, after he entered the game, the Suns shot 3-17 for the rest of the quarter.  His brand of defense involves constant switching, and he winds up being part of as many as four double teams in the same defensive possession.  If Thomas is an offensive catalyst, I believe Crowder is his defensive counterpart.  Bradley and Smart make some great defensive plays.  Crowder is a defensive disrupter.
 
Though the Suns knocked 7 points off the Celtics’ 17-point halftime lead, at least the bleeding had been slowed down as they entered the last quarter.
 
But the Suns were far from through with their comeback, and they gradually whittled the Celtics’ lead to as little as one point at a couple of junctures.  And this was where the team of Mighty Mite Thomas and Crowder once again were at the center of a Celtics resistance movement.  Thomas had 9 points in the quarter, including a beyond-huge 4-point play when the Celts were nursing one of those one-point leads and another incredible drive and ball-spin layup through or around the arms of at least two and maybe three Suns.
 
Crowder sank his fourth three (out of nine attempts) plus grabbing three rebounds in addition to his scrambling defense, and Gorman and Scal kept repeating what an impact Jae was having on the game as though they were afraid viewers wouldn’t notice it.  And, in fact, he does so many of the little things that a lot of them do fly under the radar.  Things like keeping rebounds alive, bothering shots, deflecting opponents’ passes, making the pass before the pass (“the hockey pass”), and always running the floor.
 
Avery Bradley contributed five points in the clutch, including a key three-pointer at the end of a fast break he started with a steal.  Brandon Bass had three points and three rebounds in six fourth-quarter minutes.  But it was primarily the Thomas and Crowder show that kept the Celtics in front, and the Celts hit just enough free throws at the end to keep the Suns at bay.  And those are the two players who divide my game ball.
 
It seems that every recent game reveals a little more of the gradual direction this team is taking.
 
• Despite Zeller’s very good offensive play (12 points in this one), they will continue to be prey for teams with strong offensive play down low and/or particularly effective pick-and-roll games.  For at least a while, there will be a lot of pressure on guys like Smart, Bradley and Crowder to contain perimeter players as best they can, in order to minimize pick-and-roll damage.
 
• With this interior defensive vulnerability, the Celtics will be forced to beat other teams with better offense.  This is not an easy task when they shoot in the low 40s and have an unreliable three-point game.
 
• Virtually every game will represent an ongoing  tug-of-war between the “good Celtics” (who space the floor well, share the ball, play a motion offense, swing the ball side-to-side, and resist the urge to depend too much on the long ball) and the “bad Celtics” (who do the reverse of these things).
 
• Two recent acquisitions will not be saviors in any sense of the word; but Thomas provides a reliable offensive catalyst and Crowder adds a defensive dimension that complements the defensive skills of Bradley and Smart.
 
• I’m wasting no time in suggesting that, although I believe his role as a bench player adds considerably to the offensive punch of that unit, I would like to see Thomas installed as the primary floor general of this team.  I believe that, if Isaiah were the principal “1,” Smart shared the SG position with Bradley, and Turner became a point forward, sharing the small forward position with Crowder, , all three players (Isaiah, Smart and Turner) would be more comfortable and reliably productive in their roles.
 
Go Celtics!
 
Sam

[kdp59]

I finally got to see a game from this west coast trip and I'm glad it was this one.

Thomas (or IT as the announcers from Phoenix call him) is just as advertised so far. we had two needs going into this season, an NBA starting center and a go-to scorer at the end of games. Thomas not only can be the scorer but he WANTS the ball at the end of the game. Most NBA players do NOT.

Bradley was been on a tear on the offensive end and still playing high level on defense now. Having a three guard oration of himself, Smart and Thomas should allow him to keep playing at that high level all games (with less overall minutes needed).

With only having Zeller and Bass as big men playing, I was surprised how well they held up all game. Wallace and even Crowder as the next "biggest" players available is trouble. We need BOTH Kelly to get back and Jerebko to get ready to play with Sully gone, ASAP!

I was surprised that Shav didn't get even token minutes, with our lack of ANY depth up front. If Stevens can't trust him to play a few minutes with the lack of depth we have right now, maybe it's time to move on and find another big from the D league who maybe Stevens CAN feel comfortable with.

With Sully gone, we need either Randolph to step up or find another BIG body for the end of the bench. We are simply too thin up front with only Zeller, Bass, Kelly and Jerebko.


I hope Stevens stays with Zeller, Bass, Turner, Bradley and Smart as his starters the rest of the year now.

Kelly, Jerebko, Crowder, Young and IT on the second team.

Lets hope Jerebko is the defensive player that his press releases say he is.

[dboss]

Sam

This was the first game I watched with Thomas playing.

I thought the Celtics looked much quicker in their defensive rotations when they dug in a bit.  

Zeller had a strange night.  He had several close encounters with the basketball bouncing off his head, his shoulders his elbows.  (button, button,,who's got the button?)

I am still trying to get use to the name Isaiah Thomas.  it is still a bit sacrilegious to have a guy named Isaiah Thomas playing for The Boston Celtics.

My observations:

He looks even smaller than I imagined
He should fit right in with the offense because he loves hosting 3 point shots
He is quick as a bed bug and can get into the lane and dish
He can be a real spark off the bench but I do not see him as a lead guard

A few months back the notion that we had too many power forwards has given way to the reality that we do not have enough power forwards.

Both Sully and KO  have yet to show durability as both have been injured each year they have been on the roster.

The Sully situation is more problematic.  

Coach Stevens should call time outs a little sooner.  He tends to let play continue with an eye towards self-correction.

That's it

Go Celts

dboss

[mrkleen09]

Great win.  They controlled the game and outplayed the Suns on both ends.

Thomas is a very good addition.  I am not sure how a guy who averages 20 ppg is not a "lead guard",  but as long as he is on the court down the stretch - I will be happy.  

I actually loved Coach Stevens rotations down the stretch in the 4th, substituting Smart in when a defensive stand was needed - and bringing Thomas back in when they Cs had the ball. I agree he takes too long to call times outs and also feel that he lets players sit too long into the 4th (i.e. if you are going to lean on Thomas to make shots down the stretch, he needs to come back sooner than with 5 minutes left in the game) - but Brad is getting better every game.

Crowder had a great game.  He did all the dirty work and I just love his toughness.
AB has been on a tear and is shooting the ball with so much confidence.  He is also becoming a leader on and off the court.  Very good stuff.

I think a team with AB, Thomas, Smart, Young, Sully - a couple of mid level free agents - and a bench of Zeller, Crowder, Bass and Jerebko could be very solid in years to come.

[beat]

Mrkeen wrote


I think a team with AB, Thomas, Smart, Young, Sully - a couple of mid level free agents - and a bench of Zeller, Crowder, Bass and Jerebko could be very solid in years to come.

Have to wonder

Whom among these might be packaged (with picks) in some sort of deal to move up in the draft?

beat
.

[bobheckler]

Good news, bad news.  The good news is that the Celtics came out after losing in OT in LA the night before and got off to a good start.  They played well, they moved on defense and offense.  They won the first two quarters and even got it up to a 20 point lead with 9:18 left in the 3rd.  Then Phoenix rallied and steadily closed the gap.  I'd like to blame it all on the 3s we took but I can't.  They have a defensive force in the paint called Alex Len who did a great job of depriving us of easy points.  So, where's the good news, other than winning?  For most of the game I thought our defensive rotations were quite good.  I credit Crowder with much of that.  More good news, probably the best good news, is that despite watching a 20 point lead dwindle to 3 with 6:20 left in the 4th (PLENTY of time to continue the implode) our scrappers pulled themselves together and fought them to a draw until just 1:47 left when it was a 1 point game.  

1.  And then it was Mighty Mouse (Mite?  Whatever) time.  A 3 fgm and a ftm (probably should have been an offensive foul, Thomas kicked his leg out on his shot, but the refs to this day still don't call that even though the league changed that rule years ago) and then a 2pt shot and it was a 6 point lead with :40 left.  He certainly isn't afraid of "the moment" is he?  We need to see how much is the LA game being his first game in green, so he was pumped to prove Danny right and show he belongs, and the Phoenix game being a "revenge game" against the team that just traded him but as much as I liked Thornton I'm thinking we got a good deal with Thomas.  Thornton is more of a jumpshooter, a damn good one too, than a drive-and-shooter.  Thomas does both.  Does he get a little too crazy and get swallowed up in the big trees underneath?  Sure, some, but let's give him a chance, and Brad a chance, to integrate his game with his new teammates.  Let's see what happens when he learns where his teammates will be.  Thomas for Thornton and a 1st?  Considering we have more 1st round picks than we'll ever use I'd say we got the best player in the trade and that is the gold standard by which trades are judged.  Is he a starting guard?  Who cares?  He's an upgrade over what we had and over what we gave up.  

2.  After a truly crappy game in Sacto Jae Crowder is back on track.  A very good game in LA and now this one.  A horrible 4-13 on the night but all 4 fgm were 3s and they were timely ones.  His other missed shots had to do with Len's intimidation.  Defensively, though, he was everywhere.  I particularly liked his rotations.  Unlike with the Lakers, our perimeter defense was pretty good (except for a stretch in their run where Bledsoe and Knight were getting uncontested layups.  OVERALL, it was pretty good) and a lot of that was Crowder moving his feet to prevent the ball from rolling off a high screen.  As Clyde pointed out, it's not who starts that matters it's who finishes.  Thomas and Crowder are on my "finishers" list.

3.  So is Mahcus Smaht.  His offense is problematic but his defense most certainly is not.  Not only is the play cited by Sam an emotionally game-changing one he also took several charges to take control of the momentum after we lost it.  One of them was in the middle of an almost 2 1/2 minute battle to keep the lead at 3 (97-94) against Bledsoe and the other was against the much bigger and stronger PJ Tucker at 94-89.  Understand, these plays were at key junctures in the game.  Our 20 point 3rd quarter lead was down to 1-2 possessions and they had been surging while we struggled.  These three plays were momentum breakers and, when you're in free-fall, momentum breakers are precisely what you need.  

4.  Bradley's confidence as a shooter has never been higher.  He still has trouble finishing at the rim but other than that he is keeping us in every game.  He was 8-14 this game, 3-4 from 3.  He had 6 steals.  6.  He may not be David Copperfield but he has definitely gotten one trick down cold.  Bradley (#19), Rondo (#21) and Sully (#21).  Pretty decent mid-to-late 1st round drafting by Danny.

5.  Turner is driving me crazy.  Granted it probably wasn't a long trip anyway, but he really is driving me crazy.  He was the #2 pick?  Sure, why not?  Bennett was a #1 and just waived Thomas Robinson was #5.  There was one sequence where Tucker got an offensive rebound because he was inside of his man, Evan Turner, who had his back to the basket too.  You're not supposed to have your back to your man unless you are between them and the basket, Evan.  Is there really no way to get and keep the ball out of Evan Turner's hands?

6.  Another underwhelming game by James Young.  Got beat several times on defense.  Didn't try to cut off the angle on a drive and got left in the dust another time.  We're short-handed, especially now that Thornton is gone, so the minutes are there for him here and he doesn't need to go to Maine to get them but he needs to find some defensive religion if he is going to stick in this league.  

7.  Steady Eddie doing what Steady Eddie does.  30 minutes playing 2 positions with our front court being so depleted, 18 points on a very efficient 7-11.  He even had 3 assists.  No more "no pass Bass".  A 6'8" NBA center?  Only if his name is Brandon Bass.  I am ecstatic he is still with us.

8.  Tyler Zeller looked completely overmatched and intimidated last night by Alex Len.  First of all, when you see them standing next to each other lining up for free throws Zeller looks like a PF next to Len.  Len is BIG.  Other than a block attributed to Len that was facilitated by a left arm shove-down of Zeller Len just owned Zeller.  Zeller kept flipping his shots up, trying to get rid of them quickly, rather than powering them through the rim.  That was pure Len intimidation (you wouldn't see Bass backing down).  Zeller is looking more and more like Nenad Krstic without Krstic's outside game.  Soft (I'm sorry, I mean "finesse").  Is he an upgrade over last year?  Absolutely, but we didn't have anybody last year.  Is he a starting NBA center?  Not unless he gets much stronger and gets a Vulcan mind-meld from Sully to build up his aggressiveness.  

9.  Six players in double figures.  Nice balanced scoring.  30 ftas.  That is a big upgrade over what we have been seeing all year (I didn't actually see the games but I did look at EVERY boxscore).  How do you, who did watch the games, explain the increase in time at the line.

10.  On the Phoenix side, Len played exceptionally well.  He was a great intimidator.  Their Mighty Mite, Brandon Knight, went hammer-and-tong with ours.  Gerald Green, who had been heralded for his growth as a player, was a healthy DNP.

Brad really wanted to win this one, he went with only 9 players.  Good one Brad.  Nothing succeeds like success and success is defined as "winning".  Phoenix is a guard-oriented, small ball team (what a shock, with Jeff Hornacek as the coach, huh?).  Phoenix might not make the playoffs in the highly competitive WC but they are over .500 even after this loss and that's despite playing most of their games against those highly competitive WC teams.  Their center is better than our center and our front court is so thin it's translucent.  Despite these edges to Phoenix, in addition to playing at home where they were 16-11 going into last night, we won.  Just one game, but a nice win against a quality opponent whose team matches up well against ours.

A couple of days off, some consumed by travel, and then Charlotte in Boston.  They are 1 game ahead of us but play Chicago tomorrow.  Indiana is 1 game ahead of us but play OKC in OKC tonight.  Detroit is also 1 game ahead and they host Cleveland tonight.  Brooklyn is 2 games ahead but play in NOP tomorrow.  So, if good teams win like they're supposed to, we could be 1/2 game out of 9th and only 1 1/2 games out of the playoffs by the next time we play.

bob



.

[kdp59]

did the knicks just forfeit?

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